Anne of Cleves did the smart thing by kneeling before Catherine and showing her respect. We can’t know what she truly felt - perhaps, like Mary, she was repulsed by Henry and the age of his new wife - but unlike Mary, she couldn’t risk showing it. She outlived them all!
But I think she might have been more mad at Henry then at Catherine cause of her age...pity Catherine more likely. She knew misfortune was going to befall the poor girl.
Out if Henry's wives, I would have wanted to be Anne of Cleves. She came away from it with multiple properties, the richest woman in England, and with the pomp of being addressed as the King's 'sister.'
@@CarrionCrow993 yes she escaped an abusive brother, by some accounts, a potentially dangerous marriage and kept a respectable position at the kings court. Neither were in love with one another so she lost nothing and gained everything.
@@railynnhimes2324 by that time he was already getting very fat not even close to the attractive actor portraying him and his leg injury smelled horribly, as it was basically rotting and should have been amputated (yet no one dared to say that to this crazy man, the only mention of that possibility probably would have costed any doctor his head ) so she probably felt pity for the young girl. She didn’t get the crown but escaped the horrible fate to sharing bed with him, enduring all his tantrums and sudden change of mood, opinion and even feelings. She may have not gotten the crown but got her liberty as a very rich woman in her own right (all his queens received gifts, she was the mistress of her own money and properties, something not very common by that time) without losing her reputation given he told the marriage never was consummated (something I doubt) and respect as he named her his sister. This woman played her cards very well indeed and more given the situation she was thrown in.
@@LifeInPink999 I believe the reports say that her chambermaids also stated that they never shared a bed and that she was so naive to the ways of marriage that she thought him kissing her goodnight would create a child. He didn’t find her attractive and therefore couldn’t bring himself to bed her. She didn’t know much English and he didn’t want to anger her family, whom had become allies, so the quickest and easiest thing to do was to annul the marriage. But who knows what really happened. 🤷🏼♀️
Anne of Cleves was amazing really. She kept her dignity and made a powerful position for herself. She knew the limits placed on her by her situation but instead of wallowing or rebelling pointlessly, she played the situation to her advantage.
She did succumb to wallowing sometimes - part of the conditions of the settlement was that she not travel "beyond the seas" i.e. that she stay in England, as Henry didn't want to chance her stirring up trouble back home. Both her mother and brother asked for her to come home to Cleves but Henry refused. In later years Anne would right melancholy letters to her brother saying "I am sure that my friends have quite forgotten me by now." It's true that she did make the best of her situation, but she never saw her home again.
@@theshillneckedlizard8364 She could probably have returned home after Henry's death but that would have just put her under her brother's control. Staying in England meant she could be her own mistress, a rather rare thing for a woman.
@@RudesMom Henry probably wouldn't have let her - he had been badly frightened by the near-war with Emperor Charles over his divorcing Catherine of Aragon, so there was no way he was going to risk another ex-wife stirring up trouble with foreign powers. It's true that she would have been subject to the will of her brother William, but they actually seem to have gotten along well and he wrote to Henry that he would "gladly have her" if Henry would permit her to return. Contrary to Philippa Gregory's fiction, Anne actually seems to have been the favourite of her mother Duchess Maria and missed her a lot. I guess it's like the saying, what you lose on the swing you pick up on the roundabout ;-)
@@theshillneckedlizard8364 That's why I said AFTER Henry's death. I'm not really sure that Edward (or his handlers) would have been as opposed to her leaving as Henry was. Mary even less so. The settlement with Henry left her in a fairly strong position, financial and social. Her position in her brother's household may not have been as comfortable.
@@RudesMom If she had returned, she'd probably have been married off again. But, she may not have objected to that, as she reportedly wanted children of her own. But then again, staying unmarried meant she avoided the perils of childbirth too.
She certainly was the most clever in that she outlived all the others, got away with her head, and even got a handsome settlement out of her dissolved marriage.
@@xxwhispersxx2856 Fashion is tightly woven into the philosophical fabric of a society. That is why I want to see an accurate history piece and not stupid fluff.
We all call Cathrine Parr the survivor, when Anne of Cleves survived as well, being the only ex-wife who had a good relationship with Henry after the divorce. That’s really amazing to me, the idea that Henry had an ex that he got along with
I think they call her the survivor because she was locked in the tower and scheduled to be executed. When Henry died she was released. She barely got by there.
Technically, Catherine Parr was the only survivor because she outlived Henry as his wife, Katharine Aragon anne Boyln Jane Seymour anne of cleves and Catherine Howard we're all either divorced, beheaded or died
Despite her scholarly intelligence, Catherine Parr allowed her passions to run away with her. She married Thomas Seymour within two weeks after Henry's death, suffered his acts of adultery, and died giving birth to his child who never made it out of infancy.
Anne of Cleves had the schrewdness of a seasoned diplomat. She knew how to keep herself alive and independent. If that meant a few well placed smiles and agreeable phrases, a few deep curtsies, so be it!
@@pinkstrawberries1768 Really not at that time. It wasn’t about the age difference between her father and Catherine. It was only about the age difference between Mary and Catherine.
I think that Anne was lucky when Henry thought she's ugly. It probably saves her life, just look what happened with his other wifes. After divorce she seems happy. And.. this actress is definitely to pretty to this role 😅
actually, I've read that Anne probably was not ugly but rather Henry called off their marriage because she was no longer politically useful to him. She was supposed to have been a strategic alliance for him but something, I don't remember what, had happened and he didn't need her anymore politically and I suppose he wasn't totally smitten with her for whatever reason romantically and divorced her. He was fond of her as a friend for many years and gave her a palace and money.
She was actaully said to be very beautiful, he only found her to be too ugly after she had snubbed him when he came to her disgusted and hugged her. She didn’t recognise him so cast him off as a random stranger which made him upset and hurt his ego.
@@veronikakelman8364 I reckon also he had um sexual inadequacies by this stage. Anne was not going to have Katherine's skills or lack of inhibition in the bedroom so there wasn't much to be done about that. But Henry had an ego so he blamed her looks on his problems. Plus she jilted him in public to make it worse. Add to the fact that Henry would not have the patience for her to manage the cultural differences and she was a devout Lutheran from Germany. Her awkwardness would have added to her "ugliness"
Anne was actually said to have been pretty (there was another incident that made Henry not want to be married to her actually) and she certainly was one of the few women Henry actually appreciated. She lived a happy life after their divorce and Henry gave her multiple estates including Anne Boleyn’s childhood home
I heard from my history teacher that Henry traveled to meet her/ surprise her early. He had been riding for days and was sweating (not to mention his oozing legs from an STD). He ran up to Anne and kissed her without her knowing who he was. Therefore she slapped him and called him many bad names. This angered Henry and he called her “horse-like”. I have no idea if this is true but it’s pretty funny.
@@marygilbert3747 Just pointing out, she didn't slap him in real life - that's usually added in tv shows to make the scene more dramatic. In real life she reportedly just looked shocked and turned away.
@@marygilbert3747 I've heard this story before. true or not i love it. i can just imagine Henry, who def didn't look anything like they portray him in this vid by this point in his life, still thinking he was the catch he used to be. meanwhile his courtiers are probably all sideeyeing each other... then he plays his big romantic trick and poor Anne is just like EEK GET AWAY FROM ME, DISGUSTING PEASANT 💀
The irony is that Henry just needed to let Anne of Cleves adjust to England and she would’ve been a great Queen because she was so graceful and liked by all, she also lived until a good age, unfortunately Henry had absolutely no patience! 🙄
But it wasn’t just that, apparently he was presented with a picture of her that basically cat-fished him. She just wasn’t his type and he couldn’t get it up at all so he sent her back with a handsome title and state set for life. They did not meet the way it was presented in the show.
Actually it was Henry she couldn't adjust to. Upon her arrival at court, Henry disguised himself as a peasant, grabbed her and kissed her. She pushed him away, wiped her mouth, spit on the ground, and ordered him to get out. Henry, humiliated, revealed himself and left. He resolved to ruin her, and he nearly did.
@@medicamedico4335 yep, many historians have told it that way and in The Tudors it shows it, i don't remember the season or episode but as soon as Henry knows that Anne has arrive he rides to meet her, not in disguise but she doesn't recognize him and when she does, she doesn't know how to react since she hadn't really managed the english language, so he is displeased and sents Charles instead to their next meeting
Tbf neither did Catherine of Aragon really according to most historians. A lot of the time they learned on the job, as they never actually knew which royal family a princess would marry into until the wedding was done 😅
@Калина Захаринова yes I imagine it would of been such a struggle to be suddenly within a foreign country and thrusted into this life as Queen but in her short time as Queen the people of England quickly fell in love with her and called her the most gracious and kindest queen they had known and desired for a long time 💜
@@Angie2343 She’s my favorite Anne, actually. And I’ve watched a ton of shows on the Tudors. This was one of the absolute worst, but she was great. Perfect for the part.
I can understand why Mary felt how she did, after the way her dad treated her mother and the petty persecution of Anne Boleyn, but Jane Seymour did try to be kind to Mary and Anne of Cleves reportedly got along well with her. Even Katherine Howard, I feel, tried to make an effort to get along with Mary - I understand that it was ridiculous to expect Mary to regard Katherine as her stepmother but she could have at least tried to be friends - but Mary decided to be a little b***h instead, and Katherine retaliated in kind.
I remember when I first watched this I was so confused by why Henry was so repulsed by her. Now, knowing more of the actual history behind it, I get it, but it’s not that well explained on the show. Anne was so pretty and charming here. Even Henry is looking at her like he is seeing her for the first time.
@@caroledickerson5616 The real Catherine Howard wasn't necessarily dumb - true, she lacked the extensive education of Catherine of Aragon or the biting wit of Anne Boleyn, but the very fact that she could read and write at all still placed her among the better educated women of her time. She wasn't stupid in the conventional sense of the word, just very naive and unprepared for the snake pit of court. And to be fair, most 16 or 17 year old ARE pretty shallow :-)
I am glad that this series showed that Anna of Cleves had a very good friendship with Henry once their marriage was annulled and she got along quite well with Katherine Howard too.
@@lucyolson9302 What others dresses do she wears from Tudors thats on other People. I know that Anne (3x07) wears Cloak that Jane wears being pregnant in 3x04.
@@marihillestad5486 the black gown that Katherine Howard wears during her execution is the same dress that Jane wears when Henry sees her ghost before he dies.
i love when she say "i remembered you taugh me to play cards ... i'm very greatfull, thanks to your tuition i have won a fortune" it could be small talk and saying she kind of gamble on cards game, but if you recall, while Brandon was teaching her he told her that "the king do not like to loose"... so she plays her cards to give the win (in the anulment of her marriage) to Henry, and made a fortune, since she was now the moste noble woman in england only after the Queen and princesses. She won the Henry's wifes games, she survived him and all the other wife, she died naturally and as one of the most riche persone in england ... !
Mary was more pleased with Anne than any of Henry’s wife’s. Thinking about it Anne had the grace and intelligence that Catherine of Aragon had, in a way Mary saw her mother or at least someone who would understand her and help her grow. Unfortunately this show isn’t about “what if….” It’s about the way Henry treated his wives and children, and the consequences of that treatment.
She was close with Kathrin Parr too, from what I read. Despite her not wanting to be in that situation to start with, she was by all accounts I've found, a fantastic step mom who remained close even after Henry died and she remarried.
There is also the family connection. Mary did not like Anne Boleyn. Catherine was Anne's cousin (Catherine's father was the Duke's younger brother; Anne's mother was the Duke's sister).
Anne was a highly respected lady in England, she was an honorary member of the Henry's family and was referred to as "the King's Beloved Sister". Ironically, Anne outlived Henry and his wives
I believe Anne's disastrous first meeting with Henry is responsible for him not liking her. He was in disguise, kissed her, and she allegedly spat out his kiss in disgust. He was used to everyone telling him how handsome he was, he'd never been rejected before.
@@tonylast9181 it's recorded in history,Henry loved to go incognito and,even though everyone knew who he was,they feigned surprise to keep the old bugger happy - I mean what did he expect? You're in a foreign country,your English sucks,you're betrothed to a king who has a shit house track record with the welfare of his wives - then some freaking sleaze comes in and plants one on you? FFS! If it had have been me, Henry would have had the sorest pair of bollocks in the whole of Britain because had she responded he could easily have got it in his head she'd be willing to commit adultery.
My opinion is based on what I learned in a college course on Tudor-Stuart England, my own reading, and commentary by scholars of the time period. Obviously, I can't prove something that happened almost 500 years ago.
According to history that is true! He was in disguise thinking if she were his soulmate she would recognize him. She did not recognize him and was aghast that any man would be so bold as to walk up and kiss her when she was there to wed the King!
Right! I feel like it was an Emperor's New Clothing type of thing. All of his court would have been praising his new beautiful 'clothing' and Anne was the one to be like "eww he's naked!" and he got butthurt.
It's nice that Anne could get along with Henry in a friendship type way. She got rich, got security, briefly held the queen title and didn't even have to sleep with him. That being said, they were way generous with Henry's looks in this show. At this time he was a fat tubbo. 😂
0:06 when Catherine walks away she looks like blonde Anne Boleyn, wonder if that was on purpose (like did they look for an actress that looked a little bit like Natalie Dormer) or just coincidence
I really like how they shifted Henry's costuming as he aged (despite not adding a belly to JRM), to allude to his increase in weight and his aching joints, and the long robes being used to cover all of that up.
I think it was primarily because she was the cousin of Anne Boleyn who treated Mary very badly. It could not have been due to her age. Granted, Catherine was five years younger than Mary, but Anne of Cleves was only a few months older. It also could not have been due to religion. Mary liked Anne of Cleves and Catherine Parr, who were both Protestants, but she disliked Catherine Howard, who was part of the Catholic faction at court. At any rate, some historical accounts suggest that Mary and Catherine had a reconciliation at some point.
@@CP-ir3ft No, not necessarily, of course according to history, Mary wasn't a fan of protestantism. However both Anne of Cleves and Catherine Parr were (reportedly) very kind and virtuous. That was something Mary respected; she was a devout Catholic after all.
She was basically a trophy wife on her mother’s throne. A child bride, with a basic education, moderate intelligence and no gravitas. I think she may saw a giggling teenage girl as a Queen of England, to be demeaning to the image of an ever-dignified Catherine of Aragon and her court. Katherine was also (by some amounts) 9 years younger than Mary, so maybe she felt jealous.
The real Anne was beautiful, but so is Joss Stone, Anne was smart too she knew how to play her cards and the comment she made to Lord Thomas was awesome ''' i remember you, you taught me how to play cards, and with your tutoring, Ive made a great fortune''
That's always how Henry positioned the women he was interested in, who would rank below royalty but not nobility & three of his six wives worked in the previous queen's household.
@@writerchick10 Yes Anne Boleyn,Jane Seymour and Catherine Howard all met henry because they were a lady-in-waiting to the previous Queen Consort before them
That's how Henry first met her. When there was a new queen the noble lords would do their best to get positions for the women in their families as a sign of prestige. It was a way for the young girls to learn decorum from the queen and her older ladies and also for them to be seen by suitable bachelors. For the older married women it was still very prestigious. There were also monetary rewards involved sometimes.
My favorite queens are Catherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn and Anne of Cleves but in the end each of the queens were a thousand times better than Henry lmao
Anne of Cleves was class personafied After months of humiliation and gross insults , she rose to the top. Talk about falling into a pile of shit, and coming out , smelling like a rose . Respect .
Ya know, Katherine had it the hardest out of all the queens, all men saw was a pretty face. Although she was childish, she was a good person who was always led wrong by other men.
Imagine if he'd slept with her just once and she become pregnant and had a son. It would be harder for him to get the marriage annulled, but at that point he wouldn't want to.
There's a parallel universe out there somewhere where that probably happened. Sadly, it's also likely the universe where neither Elizabeth nor Mary got a chance at being queen.
I'm laughing a little at how we're all shipping Anne of Cleves and Henry, when we have no idea what their real relationship was like other than the few bits written down in records. It's all Joss and Jonathan's amazing chemistry that we're flocking too.
Actually. There's a record that Henry re-think marry Anne of Cleves Again after he killed Katherine Howard but then he saw Catherine Parr😂. Lucky Anne.
@@chiasanzes9770 Wasn't it also mentioned somewhere that, until his death, he still had some regrets about not remaining married to Anne? Had he only had more patience and given her the change to adjust to life in a different culture, who knows what might have happened? But then again, maybe it was for the best, Anne most likely dodged a bullet there and still managed to remain in Henry's good graces.
2:30 Anne of Cleves is the most appreciated ex-wife (next to Jane Seymour) by Henry :D She did not even had to sleep with him,even less a male heir was expected by her,but still liked the most by king!Well done,Anne!
Though it is hard to appreciate in retrospect, Katherine of Aragon was the most appreciated. She was married to him for much longer than the others combined, and she was the only one he trusted repeatedly to act as regent. Think he also respected her like none of the others, as the daughter of Isabella the Catholic. Ofc, Jane gave him what he wanted most of all. But the first 30 of the 33ish year marriage of Henry and katherine is too often forgotten.
@@alexander9703 Well,I rather meant his wives' outcome.In the end Henry was really convinced KoA was lying him during all their marriage,and she could not bear a male child for that.Abd the way he has taken her away... Maybe he liked and respected her as a spanish princess and his "soulmate" and partner in life,but I don't think he was satisfied about their marriage looking back from his elder age.It took too long to get rid of it,and KoA was not helpful,like Anne of Cleves.
Funny how when he was married to Anne of cleves he wanted nothing to do with her , but when he divorced her and got married to Katherine Howard he looked like he couldn’t get enough of her company.
This was beautifully done. It's easy to forget how young all of these people were. Catherine Howard was 18 when she was executed. Anne of Cleves was 27 at that time. Henry was 51, a relatively long life for that era considering life expectancy was somewhere in the early/mid-30s. BTW -- Bravo to whoever decided on the music and dancing. The music they chose was from that period and the dancing was also authentic. The "circle" dancing showed at the end of the scene was an example of a "branle" or "bransle" a type of dance that was popular during that era, imitating what was thought of as peasant dances. The word "branle" is from the same root as "brawl!"
Catherine was very young, yeah. We don't know exactly how old she was when she married Henry, but probably about 17, making her likely about 18-19 at her execution. Henry was 49 at their wedding. Poor Catherine - she behaved recklessly, but she was just a teenager, and a lot of us make bad decisions when we're young and inexperienced. Most of us don't pay such a harsh price. She seems to have had a kind heart as well. I've always liked and pitied her.
Last I checked...Henry found Katherine because she was lady in waiting to Anne of Cleves, so they most likely never would have had a formal introduction like this.
Reading the past gives an historical account about Anne of Cleves, siunds like she was very happy as a single independent woman. She was still a regular at court. If she had remarried, her husband would have taken ownership of her assets etc. Goodbye fun and freedom... I think as a royal woman, she especially enjoyed being free?
I cringed so hard that moment. Howard tried to step mom mary. I died so hard inside bc girl shes older than you and can obviously rule and handle stuff better than you..
I don't think she was trying to mother Mary, but was just trying to be friendly and polite. I was really disappointed with Mary here, her mum Catherine raised her better than that
Yeah, obviously they're not going to be besties but she could have at least been civil. I felt like yelling at the tv "C'mon Mary, where's your manners girl? Your mom Catherine raised you better than that"
I know this is just a portrayal with license for creativity. Yet I have always been fascinated with the Tudor period. All six wives fascinate me in one way or another. If it were possible, I would love to be an observer of time rather than a participant. I digress. Anne of Cleves. The fear of knowing the possibility of one’s fate vs the inability to have any control over it. To have been privy to her thoughts at the time would be remarkable I dare say.
poor mary,i could tell that catherine howard reminded her of the woman who replaced her mother when she was a young girl,i'm glad that she got along well with anne of cleves and catherine parr,i could tell that she felt alone in the world.
Mary was cold towards Katherine, however the scene where she fired two of Mary’s maids did not happen. Katherine held no hard feelings toward Mary and always tried to get Mary to like her.
Mary disliked her at first but eventually they became friendlier to each other. Might have something to do with the fact that Katherine gave clothes to Mary's imprisoned teacher Margaret Pole
Mary had no reason to bow to Katherine. Not only is her fathers 4th bride younger than her. She is catholic, she doesn’t even agree with divorce and multiple marriages. But Katherine is also the cousin of Anne who destroyed her mother’s life and is literally named Katherine when to Mary (and probably a lot of England) there was only one Queen Catherine and that was Aragon.
Katherine Howard was a child, abused her whole life and then thrown at Henry to be his plaything with the hope that being so young meant she'd get pregnant fast and give him another son. Really is sad 😔
@@cagegrrl Catherine Howard’s life was incredibly sad but I really don’t think any portrayal of her do her justice. She’s always portrayed as a empty airhead who just wanted to have a good time when in fact she was educated befitting her station and sex, she might not have been educated as highly as Anne Boleyn or Katherine of Aragon but Catherine made up for it in her talents too, dancing, music, sewing. She was very calculated, intuitive and determined. Despite the abuse from the men around her she was able to keep a strong mind and play her part in surviving court. When lady Margaret Pole was in the tower Catherine was thought to have pleaded with the king for mercy and sent the woman comforts and clothes while she waited to be executed which shows Catherine was also kind and generous. I think it’s about time she was accurately portrayed as a teenage girl who has been abused from a young age but is doing all she can to succeed and get through life rather than a ‘whore’ or silly girl as these shows would lead you to believe ❤️
