Adrian, that tape cover on the DIP switch is there to keep it sealed during board assembly, whether manual or automated. That way you can wash off solder flux residue or whatever, then remove the tape cover only when needed to change the settings. I worked at an electronics manufacturer in the late 70s to mid 80s, and we had problems with flux residue in DIP switches, especially after rework. We actually used Cramolin by Caig Laboratories back then, don't think they make it now but they have other fine products to do the same job. I enjoy your videos, even though the only Commodore I have is a VIC-20 with the two-pin power jack, someone gave it to me decades ago and I've never gotten rid of it!
I've always left that tape in place. Usually it's possible to use a ballpoint pen to move the switches without puncturing the tape so I didn't feel it was necessary to remove it. Don't know how it fared as it aged though. My thinking was that if nothing else it would minimize the risk of the contact surfaces oxidizing. That doesn't mean I was right, but as a lot of motherboard manufacturers used to leave the tape on the dip switches (back when motherboards always had physical switches of some kind) I thought it would be safe to leave it in place.
@@blahorgaslisk7763 The manufacturers probably left the tape on because it was cheaper than the effort to remove it! (And to keep it clean, of course.) I also learned to be careful not to get graphite (pencil lead) and ink into the switches. If you can get them switched without breaking the tape, go for it!
@Critter Hunter Thanks for a more recent report on that, mine is a bit dated! :) I agree, that's a good point about keeping the switches in a "factory" state. I tended to use a few different implements to change the switch settings: a plastic solder-aid tool with a pointed end that fit perfectly into the tiny dimples in rocker-style DIP switches yet was strong enough to work slide-style ones as well; a 0.5mm Pentel mechanical pencil with the lead fully retracted, leaving a narrow cylindrical tip; and an Xcelite pocket flatblade screwdriver (R3323). All worked pretty well, and I know I still have the Xcelite screwdriver and the Pentel pencil, both from around 1975. Good tools are worth paying for!
The Tape is on there, because of vacuum pick&place the part during SMT-process (and for stopping the heat during soldering in the SMT-oven). Parts like this are on a tape-spool and are grabbed by a tiny vaccum-arm. If there is no flat surface, this would not work. With the tape over the switch, there is a flat surface. So you can remove it- its really only for the pick&place-system.
As reverse engineering and FPGA technology continue to improve, we may start seeing even more replacements for ICS. With modern lasers, it's becoming easier to remove the casings to expose the die.
Its amazing how much love is put into projects that keep these Commodores alive. I will definitely be ordering one of these for when my PLA finally dies. Thanks Adrian for showcasing this! 😁👍
Same here Jean! I always get excited when I see that Adrian's new RU-vid video exceeds 30 - 40 minutes... I'm officially addicted to Adrian's Digital Basement!
I never used a C64 or sinclair or plan too, but i am addicted to watching all you videos about them. I an old electronic technician and its good to see how easy it was to service older technology compared to todays SMD and GBA packages. I amazed how new technology and software is being made to keep these machines still working better than original.
I've seen a B128, but I am in Canada, so maybe it never made it to the US market. It used a bank switched memory setup, and a 6509 chip. The B128 had 128K of memory, and the B256 had 256K of memory.
Adrian, Those Commodore B128's were sold and "Liquidated" in the U.S. by the very famous "PROTECTO ENTERPRISES" which was a famous Commodore Hardware/Software clearing house that Advertised in the back pages of just about every Commodore magazine back in the day such as COMPUTE!, COMPUTE'S GAZATTE, AHOY!, etc. The Commodore B128 was sold strictly as a Business Oriented PC (Mostly in Europe as its Target Market)... It was a Commercial failure for Commodore. When it failed to sell, PROTECTO liquidated them here in the U.S. and in Canada. Tony K., :o)
It IS awesome indeed, so glad there is this community around still. I needed to fix and recap my old Amiga 1200, just did'nt find the time to practice replacing stuff etc and could send it off to the UK for a complete rework. It came out amaaaazing. My C16 got some love as well and this PLA chip is likely in the mail at some time. Awesome.
Adrian, you should get a small breadboard. Those make it really easy to solder on headers. Pop the headers in, put the board on top, and there's no give and no wiggle.
The way we used to replace the PLA was with a pin compatible, FPLA, programmed off an original Commodore 64 PLA The PLA is used as the high address bits to chip select decoder. The memory map for the computer.
Thanks for the short concise video. Another way to align those headers is to use a proto-board (press-in wire style with 0.100" spacing). Just use it to tack 2 pins though and pull it out again, otherwise the proto-board plastic may melt from the heat. Cheers,
I find that a small, cheap breadboard works nice for holding pin headers because it holds them straight. It also sinks the heat away from the traces. The part has to be worked off, but that's how it goes. Thanks for making videos!
The PET 8296 is a completely different thing than the SuperPET 9000. The 8296 was a whole new motherboard design with 128k of banked RAM and a single 6502 CPU, while the SuperPET 9000 was a modified PET 8032 with an additional board that displaced the 6502 to the add-on board, added a bunch of Watcom languages in ROM, a 6809, some 6809 ROMs, and a couple of additional interfaces (including a true RS-232 interface, allowing it to be easily connected to other systems as a terminal). There was also a hardware mod for the 9000 that allowed the use of the OS-9 operating system. The 8296 actually has more RAM than the 9000, as there is 128k present in the 8296, although in practice both machines can only use 96k in normal use. The CBM-II lines didn't reach market, but some developer's prototypes were sent out and not all were returned when the project was cancelled and Commodore was ordered to destroy all prototype units.
I remember Protecto selling those CBM-II machines through Compute! and Compute!'s Gazette (remember their yellow, multi-paged ads in the middle of those magazines?), I was always intrigued, but older C= fans I knew at the time advised me to stay away (as if my 12 year old self could've afforded one back in '82 anyway :) )
Hi Adrian, great channel. I had a B-128 package, it came with a 8050 dual drive but no monitor. I used a 80-column monochrome monitor since this Pet replacement didn't have color. It came with a basic terminal program and a word processor and of course used the IEEE, (HP) interface which meant it was not compatible with C64 accessories because it used the IEEE bus, it was quit a bit faster than the 64/1541 combo, I would guess about the same speed as the C-128/1571 combo in burst mode. Btw, the package came from "Protecto Enterprises " and I forget how much it cost. T
Amazing work as always, Adrian! How about a video/series focusing on current best options to future proofing our C64s? Don't forget to list the pros/cons of emulation (my personal choice) using the VICE stuff!
Back in '82 or so, when I was looking for a C64 for First Star Software, I went into a high end Computer Store. They were selling PETs, Apple IIIs and CP/M machines. Back then they were selling those CBM II machines.
just keeps getting bette better smart people all over world brilliant ideas c 64 will live forever and a day will see something will come out and be better
Good to see more options out there. I"'m still waiting on my pcb's from PCB Way for the Gal PLA since March! I ordered everything right after your video and have received everything but the pcb's.
international shipping during a pandemic is the worst. I have a subscription to japan crate for Japanese snacks. I didn't get any for 3 months. Then I got 3 boxes in 3 days and then 2 weeks later I got my 4th box. lol
Yeah seems nuts how long it takes some things to arrive -- I've ordered stuff from China and it came in 2 weeks - other things took months and months and they finally showed up.
@@adriansdigitalbasement China works reasonably well here: China Post seems to be capable of using railways to get mail to Europe, stuff I order in China shows train stations in the tracking information since a few weeks. It takes slightly longer than normal, but it works reasonably well. Transatlantic mail has got a far worse hit, taking many weeks. (Not so good to send PLAs to the US :( ) I have discovered that a sea route has been created between Rotterdam and New York, which a lot of the mail traffic between Europe and North America is using right now. Ships seem to depart every two weeks, so if I would send you a letter or package, it has to wait up to two weeks before the ship departs, then the ship needs +/- 10 days, and then the normal route inside the US.
On the PLAtinum, the single cap near the voltage regulator might be a problem too - for typical LM1117 3.3v regulators you would use 10uF on the input and 100uF on the output - I don't see that there. That could be causing the "works for some people not others" issue.
Those regulators spec that sort of smoothing for wildly unstable power supplies. This uses an already good +5V line, so I don't suppose it could cause issues even without the cap. In fact, I would just put two simple diodes in series to drop it from 5 to 3.3V. I have done this before when the 3.3V line died and I wanted a cheap fix. (Details: For high power drain, use two rectifying diodes. The load will stretch the threshold voltage up to 0.8V. For low-power chips, use Zener diodes of any type in the forward direction. These have a slightly higher threshold voltage, 0.8-1V depending on load. If it still doesn't suit you, a Schottky diode will give you about 0.35V.) Chances are the timings just aren't programmed right into that chip.
There is another one that sounds really cool called the PLAster. It combines a kernel rom replacement with a PLA replacement. The default is kernel passthrough. But then it has jumpers to allow different kernels stored on the chip itself. Anyway I got a GAL PLA and sadly it didn't change anything with my C64. I suspect a PAL mod isn't going to change anything either, but I was going to do it anyway. I'm half tempted to just order all the various support logic chips and various sockets. I have 3 suspects, but if it's one of the others it's just cheaper to get them all at the same time. There are minimum order requirements on the sites that sell the chips. I didn't run into that problem with the replacement ram, but I did when I got my color SRAM (also changed nothing) and socket for that and the PLA.
Thanks for this video. I think I'll order one of these for my upcoming C64 project. I'm intending to build a machine with as many modern replacements as possible so this will sit nicely alongside the ARMSID.
Btw, I forgot to mention, there was a B-256 also. I converted mine after I noticed there was room on the motherboard for another bank. Btw, the 8050 was single-sided and was 500k. The 8250 was double sided and was one meg. I also bought a used D9060 hard drive. Unfortunately, it had a dead 5 meg mfm drive, and I couldn't find a replacement. There was also a D9090 available, it was 7.5 meg.
You know what Im really curious about. What would computers from back in the day actually be used for that was not gaming. I remember a story about a commador vic20 or 64 cant recall which that was used on some old manufacturing equipment and the machine in question could not be made anymore so they had to replace this Commodore every time it broke to keep it running. But what were a lot of these computers used for back in the day. I know Europe had a ton of love for MICRO computers, but what were the other practical applications of these outside of gaming. All I ever see is people talk about is gaming.
For one, there was GeOS operating system for the 64 (and I think they made it for 128 as well) by Berkeley Softworks, released in 1986. Think Windows before Gates stole it, because that's what it was. Also, with a cheap 30 dollar 300 baud modem and a phone line, you could connect to Quantum Link aka Q-Link as I did, which was AOL before it became AOL. I am talking when I was like 8 or 9 years old here - I even got a job writing columns for a BBS board but I ALMOST figured out how to do that but unfortunately couldn't at the time. I almost overcame the technical issues I was having but couldn't. Maybe my modem was not compatible or something of this nature. I have recently become aware that there was some music composing software that did the MIDI thing. I think Adrian featured it in one of his videos if I am not mistaken and if I am, it was someone else then. Another popular thing to do was type in LOOOOO-OOOOOOONG programs from magazines. I mean, it would take months or weeks, and one single mistake made it all pointless. Think about that! But also too, there was some form of automatic debugging which did help to some extent.
In fact, you could also download the first ever versions of shared music that flashed the screen all the colors wild like C64 can do. The two very popular files involving this were Led Zeppelin's Black Dog and the Kung Fu Fighting song from the 70s. There are videos of these running and playing on RU-vid here. If I recall well, it would take 6 to 8 hours to get these ultra low quality files. And if someone called the phone line you were using, you were disconnected and there was no such thing as resuming the downloads. It was all completed or nothing.
Like you say it is truly amazing that people are producing these alternatives to that ageing chips. Have you looked at the Armsid replacement for the SID chip yet, it apparently also covers some of the other SID function beyond sound.
The tape on the switches is so that the vacuum based pick n place machine can pick up the dip switches. Ever wondered why HDMI ports have the yellow tape on top? Same reason.
It's a shame that we didn't get the parallel disk interface and superior BASIC version with the C64, even though it's predecessors had them... Given how amazingly popular the C64 was, a lot of us would have benefitted significantly. Although we never had a disk drive here anyway, so it was tapes all the way.
We all have opinions on what is good practise and what not. And indeed, I wouldn't connect an IC to a voltage divider myself. But I also think we should judge PLAs on the end result, and the PLAnton is known to be a great PLA. What else do we want?
FAN-TAS-TIC!!! I got a C plus4 with a black screen and highly suspect the PLA! I am gonna give this a go! Also got a C16 which works (PSU broken, but with sega PSU i manage for now). So for the C16 it never hurts to have a spare part as well. I assume the chip was tested on C16's and plus 4 machines....thanks a kazillion!
@@adriansdigitalbasement Dang, yes, i just swapped the PLA's and their fine. Thanks for the tip! With CPU you mean TED chip i suppose. They are very difficult to find i believe...
TED is graphics, you mean the 7501/8501, i just looked up. I am gonna check if it is interchangeable with the C16 tomorrow....the TED chip is also very unreliable i have heard....
Thanks, i am also gonna try recapping, never hurts a try😀, i must further troubleshoot with an oscilloscope as well. It is so strange, when booting, you vaguely see some white lines moving, and looks like it's trying to compile the screen. There is surely some movement on the screen at first, but black always....
Yeah didn't mention as that goes without saying -- the SX64 works exactly the same way as the C64 so anything that works on a breadbin C64 would work in a SX64.
Very, very cool. I recall reading about the PLAdvanced in a forum a while back but I had no idea it had evolved into this super versatile IC replacement -- great stuff. You are correct, so many ingenious people in the retro computer community. I love it. Thanks for showcasing this. A couple of years ago, at the World of Commodore show in Toronto, Eslapion (one of the creators behind PLAnkton) mentioned in his talk that he was developing the "MegaPLAnkton" for C64 shortboards - www.flickr.com/photos/148581775@N04/50121506691 - I guess it's not ready for primetime yet.
I remember CBM 610 / CBM 710 (as they were known here in Germany) they were business machines with 80 coloms in monochrome sold in the U.S. as B128 / B256 and basiclly become extinct by the PC and mainly its clones. Yes, there were known under other names in other regions in the world and other parts of europe as well. Commodore marketing messed everything up as usual. The P500 should be the home version of the CBM 610/710 and replace the VC/VIC-20. There were only a few 'real' review samples send out to magazines and computer shops. Some say Commodore canceled it because it was to expansive to build (The P500 should come with up to 256K, the 6509 could do up to 1 Meg as well. In contrast the 6510 could do only 64K afair.) Others say there were to much bugs and problems in the review machines. I prefer the first but there was no offical statement. Later german electronics dealer Völkner bought the remaining spare parts with a lot of remaining CBM 610 / CBM 710 from Commodore and sold them. So you could build your own P500 form the parts what a few people here obviously did. Someone told me there was a kit too but I stongly doubt that because I couldn't find any evidence of one.
@@skilletpan5674 The main CPU was the MOS 6509 (6502 with 20 adress lines) in all CBM 6x0 / 7x0 (2 MHz) and the P500 (1 MHz). The CBM 730 (or BX256) had an daughter board with an Intel 8088 and could run CP/M-86 or MS-DOS. But Commodore made PC clones too. PC-10 to PC-50 with Intel 8088/286/386SX. Later 386/486 models had only the Commodore branding. Escom and Tulip Computers released Commodore branded PCs as well.
I bet the Commodore techs in 1982 never would've imagined that there would be hobbyists creating spare parts for their computers in almost 40 years in the future. Amazing development if you think about it.
Don't think that would be too far off to them. Many of them did stuff like that themselves back then, and sure they would have been crazy enough .. just look up what Bil Herd is doing (he wasn't involved at the C64, but very deep into the C128 and the C264-series).
An 8296 isn't a SuperPET. The SuperPET is an 8000-series with 96K RAM and an additional Motorola 6809 CPU. The 8296 is a curvy-cased 80-column PET with 128K RAM. I once had an 8296-D, with two internal 8250 drives, but I lost it when I stored it in someone else's basement, and he gave it to someone else by mistake.
Have you covered that EasyFlash 3 cartridge in more detail in any previous videos? I mean I can read about it, but I'm interested in how you've configured it.
Great content as usual. I love learning of all the new replacement for old computer components. I know you addressed this in another video but I can't find it. What is the small led cube that shows the Atari and commodore symbols along with other stuff?
It's a Tivoo: amzn.to/3fsSGbI They also have a line of other Pixel art displays that (I think) all use the same iOS/Android app to load content onto them.
Nice! I have seen this in the f64 in early stadium, but forget it. Still have a couple of PLAs here, but who knows ... better ordering some :D (as we know. If you have enough spare parts, things don't break hehe ... have 3-5 PLAs here .. don't really matter. And about 30-40 6522 and 6526 here - in the last 20 years no 6522/6526 broke ... a sign :D... but on the other hand, have close to no ViC-20 parts anymore, now have 3 dead 20s on the table... that sucks - and I am not will to pay these insane prises . So these 3 ViC-20 will stay dead so long, thanks to these rippers. I am crazy, but not insane and I don't care anymore. Life is too short :D )
Unless the VIC is broken, you can repair a VIC-20, all parts are still available and generally for low prices. If you have trouble finding a part for it, feel free to ask.
Yeah all off the shelf except for the VIC chip -- and I'm hearing from multiple sources the VIC chips seem to be dying a lot these days. Definitely concerning.
Surprised that there is Commodore hardware out there I haven't heard of (I wonder why this stuff wasn't covered by 8-bit guy on his Commodore History videos...)
Adrian, the CBM6x0 is being emulated by Vice - so you can have at least an emulated look on it... (including the VICII emulation)! (vice-emu.sourceforge.io/)
Horst Brotbox nice. I have a stack of 8 128s here that all have bad CIA chips that need replacing. But the chips are so hard to find or have to be pulled from working machines. Almost worth more for me to just piece the 8 machines out as parts than sell them as systems.
Hey Adrian! Great videos. I have a request: could you do a video on high density 3.5" floppies on Amigas? It was always interesting to me; my last A1200 was from Escom and used a modded high density floppy drive and was wondering if you could come up with a solution that could read/write standard Amiga or PC high density floppies using a PC drive (the Escom couldn't; it could be persuaded to write non-standard HD disks though).
The Paula cannot handle the required bit rate for HD floppies. Commodore's work around was to reduce the rpm of the floppy drive, but this automatically means that PC drives cannot work.
Thanks for your tests .Does it works for C64 II as well? I still have some of them dead also, that really was the one I firstly started with. The sound was a bit improved on these ones, and I loved that modern design. For C64 and C64 II do you see a difference between PLAAdvanced and GAL PLA ?
Hey Adrian, I would love to ZIF my C64 Board as well, but the capacitors are in the way. How did you handle that? Did you put the caps on the back of the mainboard, or did you use some SMD versions for that? Please let me know or even better make a quick video :-) Thanks Ser
Hi, you suggested Dan G. To test my c64 chips last winter. He sold me a replacement PLA of his own design very reasonable and it works 100% perfectly. Can you test that in all versions of the machines you have?
I actually didn't design it, I simply make them and program them when needed. Proper credit goes here... www.hackup.net/2019/06/the-xcpla-yet-another-pla-replacement/
Hi Adrian, have you ever done the video RAM upgrade on a C128? Perhaps that'd make a good episode...? I seem to recall back in the day that you could take it from whatever it was to 16k, and gain more performance/options out of it...
I think the VRAM of the 80 col mode can go from 16k to 64k -- but really has no use outside of demos using the additional RAM. I think the 128D I have already has this upgrade done too... Should look into a demo to try this.
Not OT at all, you could hardly find a better discussion on RU-vid. But I see this as a wishful thinking sort of campaign. C64 is only for a few enthusiasts from an aging generation. I don't see it as commercially viable.
I'd like to see the point where the C64 can be built with all third party parts for fun. So GAL-PLA, SwinSID, and hopefully CIA and VIC-II parts of those are cloned or can be cloned.
We might be there within 3 years: Chips that still are difficult to replace are the VIC-II, CIA and CPU. Community projects to replace them exist for all 3 and the designer of the PLAdvanced is working on CPU and CIA replacements.
Yes absolutely, it is the enitre reason that it exists :) Designing a PLA that people can build themselves with common tools was the primary goal. However, if the programmer is not a common enough tool for you, I do offer preprogrammed kits to make your life easier.
