I've known about this process for quite some time, but no one's broken it down as simply (or in a way I can fully understand) as you have. Many thanks and kudos to you, sir!
I was just thinking about doing this very same thing in FL Studio. Its a shame that many plug ins and VSTi's need so much for resources to sound best 👌. Glad to see someone is just as much a mad man in the lab! Lol
Thanks David You are an excellent educator and your videos throughout the years have provided me much needed clear-cut tutorials as I too am a Mac guy use DP in my composing. Your videos are always very thought out, intuitive, and of course educations. I appreciate you sharing your set up in this video as well.
This video is an excellent tutorial for composing big cinematic music. Maybe it looks like overkill, but you gonna need it more and more. I used to work like this, but now I changed to a simple, mobile, low-cost and blank template. Because I don't do big orchestra anymore.
Thank you for this!!! As soon as I get my next album budget this will be the very first thing I'm investing in! Been curious how to get a set up going like this for a while now because I HATE having to free up resources by printing things to audio and not having my instruments ready at a moments notice, totally fucks with the creative flow of things and ideas! Where are you based out of if you don't mind me asking?
Hello there, I use to be a keyswitch freak when it comes to placing orchestral tracks into DAW. After watching your video, I changed my template into articulation per track algorithm. Template received a vast number of tracks of course, (go multitimbral and you'll have 256*16 tracks in logic, VEPRO doesn't seem to have a problem either) but my creativity is boosted. In keyswitch, my articulations were somewhat restrained or jailed. I had to look at slave computer to remember what articluation was available.. This new experience was like a jailbreak for my template. It takes some hours to build but it is definitely a whole new experience in creativity. Thanks for this. Typing track names is a nightmare though :)
Right. It does take a long time. Truth be told, I wouldn't mind having a keyswitch-based template, except that I hate hunting-and-pecking for articulations. Other sequencers have better support for that (e.g. Cubase's Expression Maps). Hopefully that's something that'll come to DP in the future.
This is such an amazing video! One suggestion I would make is to use the Microsoft Remote Desktop client instead of TightVNC. It has a client for Mac and it is much more fluid to use.
Thanks for your time David! I am always maxing out my Macbook as I need all colours available at once. Been looking at AudioGridder and others but Vienna seems to be the "working" choice.
Thank you so much. I've bitten the bullet and ordered the parts to build my 1st slave computer. Thanks for sharing this info. I'm relatively new to this but have managed to do pretty well with 1 really good MAC. But as my projects have become more complex, my mac has begun to struggle. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Love all your videos BTW. Keep up your talented work!
Thanks John; much appreciated! I was in the exact same boat as you. The first one I built was quite a learning curve. (If you have a savvy PC friend, it really helps, and/or if you find some RU-vid videos on the actual building of the machine.) Now that I know my way around, it's pretty straightforward.
being a pro on some levels I am green on other levels. Can you please share more info about the gigabit router and dongle - including what works for you?
Check Vienna's site for more details (or the VEP manual), but I'm pretty sure any gigabit router will work. And the dongle just needs to be one of the Syncrosoft ones. (Again, details are in their manual.) I think there's only one kind, so you can't go wrong.
This is sooo cool! These days I am more into looking at my gear and watching videos about studio equipment and pcs, than actually making music. 😂😂 I'm such a tech guy. My name is David too
Hi David! Thank you very much for this video! I remember stumbling upon your name for the first time more than 10 years ago at a time when I was into a capella music very much, in particular, I was doing Take 6 transcriptions myself and I found your name online on some Take 6 transcriptions of your creation! I am an aspiring orchestrator/composer myself and finding your channel is such an awesome surprise! Keep up the amazing work!
That Startup idea for the slaves is brilliant! I've been finding I am having problems using Microsoft Remote Desktop so I may give VNC a go. Thanks for this!
It did take a while, and with every new projects, I tend to tweak/improve it. The time spent is well worth it, as each project gets better and smoother.
This is so cool. Thanks for the info! I wouldn't mind setting this up for my Kontakt drum samplers as they take up a decent amount of my CPU and it gets annoying freezing tracks and whatnot just to keep the session going. And that's just for 5-piece band stuff. Had no idea you could use Mac as your master rig and PC as slave, either. That definitely helps save some money!
David, first of all, thanks for your professional videos. I am a big sceptic regarding multi computer system. Theoretical it seems very good. About 10 years ago I used 3 computers (Master MacPro and 2 rack PCs on Win XP). Yes, on 32-bit OS. It's a big difference comparing today 64-bit OS's. My concept was similar - to have under hands ready all articulations of VSL (for Giga Studio) and East West, Virtuoso, ProjectSam and many others old Akai and Emu libraries on hardware samplers - Akai S5000 and Emu-Synth 128 MB ram :) Final effect was really good, very epic (like Gladiator), but I spent 7 months for writing music to 92-minutes Film (Canadian prod.). Main DAW it was Nuendo 4; connection MIDI via high MOTU Interfaces and second PC (with Gigastudio 3) via NERD ipMIDI soft. Of course - I used 3 Audio Interfaces. It was interesting experience for me, but 75% of time you I spent for set-up all equipment, and main problem was with MIDI latency, even through network via ipMIDI soft. All working good at moment when you really use over 100 tracks... In one world - tell me, how working Vienna Ensemble Pro as main connection system? Maybe I come back to scenario with 2 Mac. 1. My question - theoretical I can connect two Mac via network (sessions) but this native connection is ABSOLUTELY not stable. What can you tell me about Vienna Ensemble Pro (responsible not only for MIDI, but for Audio transmission too)? 2. Maybe it's better use one strong new MacPro with 64 GB of RAM or more? With 2 computers I'm afraid about MIDI transmission and I have bad experiences - and I'm not talking about economical side of energy and noises... If you calculate all costs of additional equipment, + your time to setup - who knows, the final price will be similar... I work many times in Rewire functions DAW Cubase 9 pro + notation soft (Finale 25 or Notion 4), it's comfortable for composing. For recording - it's a other story.
Hello Roman, You can use VEPRO 5 for audio sessions as well. www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Software_Package/Vienna_Ensemble_PRO Checking these videos are very useful. I also use same technology, difference is my slave computers are mac minis instead of PCs. Mac 2012 mini can take up to 16 gig but in return you get an extreme stability with all ecosystem being in OSX. My Minis have 256 SSD each, so i put there my favorite libraries. On the back end they are connected to 1 TB Western Digitals each for lesser important libraries alike sound design stuff. :) One thing I would do differently than David is that, he is setting all orchestra to slaves, articulation per-track basis and never touches again slaves again unless needed. If you will have sound design elements in slave pcs (or you are using keyswitch patches) you may (or will) miss the second tv/monitor. And connecting remotely to slaves whilst DAW sequences from VEPRO may create some instability or issues in network therefore i have multiple monitors don't rely on remote desktops. His suggestion about gigabit router and CAT 6 cables are critical. your connection to internet provider behind the home network is irrelevant but cables coming out from computers to router should support gigabit concept as well as your router itself. I have an Asus Nu model, so far it works. One thing I don't like about Vienna is their samples because they are dry samples I had to give a lot of sweat to make them sound :). VEPRO 5 also comes in with a small package called Epic Orchestra from Vienna Symphonic Libraries so you save couple hundred euros there with that compliment. Best,
From many years I use minimum 3 monitors (1x30" + 2x20" in Pivot). Now from 3 years I use 40" 4K Panasonic BDM4065 + 2 x 20" in Pivot. I recommend for You and David this Panasonic model - really very good and economical (only 40 Watt in "economy" mode of light - absolutely enough for working!). Regarding slave computer, what do you think, Gentleman, about server (HP Proliant), excluding noises it seems to be an item for many many years... I mean used model with 256 RAM DDR3?
Oy Vey! Another bloody dongle! that's 3 I'll have if I got VEP but: THANKS for the video - you have really helped me. I mentioned in another post about my expensive Mac buying days being potentially over for a while, so this option deserves some serious attention.
When you want to edit a kontakt instrument, what's the process? Do you have to open the instrument on a slave and edit it? For example, if you want to turn on/off a built in far mic on one of the kontakt libraries.
Right, yes, you have to go on to the slave and edit it there. You can do it via VNC (screen sharing) which makes it easy to get in here with a few clicks, and you don't need to actually have a monitor on the slaves (after initial install/setup is done).
thank you so much Sir, started to watch..your Star Wars video...then let it play...while doing other work...and from the beginning...i was going crazy saying, i could i get in touch with you to ask for your computer set-up...and Boom, looking at your channel...this video id explaining everything...can wait to have time to watch it and take multiple notes...will get back to you, if you allow me, asap....to really understand everything...Thanks so much Sir, sincerely Jean-Marc
Hi, thanks for the info. Quick question - I run Mac with all kontakt libraries for IOS. Do you need PC format to store them on a slave computer? Thanks.
Macs and Windows computers prefer different disk formats, and this can definitely affect Kontakt sample speed. So yes, any Macs should be formatted with Mac formats (Mac OS Journaled or APFS) and Windows drives should be formatted with Windows formats. Otherwise things may not work well.
This is so helpful. One question, all the sample libraries you have on your slave PC’s, where are they backed up? Do you have other ssd’s as duplicate in your PC’s are on external drives ? Thank you
Hey Dave..... great video! I have a 2013 Mac Pro ( trashcan ) 32 gigs of ram and a brand new MacBook Pro 32 gigs of ram .... I am very familiar with ve pro but setting up a network with the two machines is foreign to me. When I'm ready to do this would you be available to give me a hand setting it up? I would compensate you for your time obviously.
I'm not able to take on consulting like that, but there are a good number of people who do it who I can recommend. If you already know VE Pro then the network is very easy to set up (usually just a gigabit switch and you're good). If the two (or more) computers have internet, and it's fast enough (i.e. gigabit), it'll work automatically.
A cheaper alternative for people who can't afford machines like that (but can use their spare computer, like I did) is NetVST, which does essentially the same thing, and it's free... the downside with NetVST is that one has to re-setup everything once the machine reboots (I did't find any option to use command line switches or plugin load automation for NetVST). However, in both instances it has the advantage that you coud use Kontakt or other plugins on systems for which they are not available, say Linux. This way you could use Kontakt in your Linux DAW
David, would a mac mini serve the same purpose as a slave PC? For example would an iMac (32 GB memory) to use for the sequencer and some Vis and one mini mac as a slave (16 GB memory) to have most of the VIs serve this purpose? I am trying to see if I can save time instead of building my own slave buying parts etc, if I can have a ready mac mini serving this purpose.
Yes, it would work just fine. I would suggest putting the samples on an SSD. If your Mini's internal drive is an SSD and you have the space, that's the idea place. If not, a USB3 or Thunderbolt drive would be next best.
Awesome as usual! I'm planning on building a Motion Graphics & 3D animation PC workstation that will also be a slave music workstation to my iMac (when the new iMacs come out)...some really great tips and pointers...that is a MASSIVE scoring template! I can't imagine how much time it took to set that up! I also loved how you names your slave machines after tennis players! ;)
:) So, in your case, graphics will be much more important, but that's easily remedied by simply adding a good graphics card. Depending on how large your sequencing template is, you might not need as much RAM. As another commenter pointed out, RAM prices have risen dramatically, so the cost is a little different now. But the principles are the same.
Because it's primarily going to be a graphics machine, yes, a powerful graphics card will be necessary (possibly 2), but I will also need a powerful CPU as well as lots of RAM, so all music applications that I'll be using will benefit from all that. Splitting sample libraries over multiple SSDs is a great idea and always wondered about that, so thanks again for the tip. I'm not a pro like you, so my "template" won't ever be that in depth! Looking forward to the next video!
Awesome video, very very informative. I really like that you take your time to share your experience and knowledge - this is just great. My next setup will 'only' be a single computer with 64gb ram, 4 Core 7700k CPU (propably still better than 8 Core Ryzen 7), M.2 SSD 1TB, low latency motherboard and a consumer sound card i guess. I'll try to make some money out of that by composing some orchestral game music for companies and if i succeed I will upgrade to your slave computer setup to handle a realistic Vienna Symphonic Library :) See you in 2 years....hopefully! :D
Wonderful post! Sounds like a great game plan! That system should work great. I would probably put a decent sound card on it -- not a consumer level one -- but you can find simple pro level interfaces under $400 I think.
I presume it would work fine, but I have no experience with FL Studio and wouldn't know how good a program it is or how well it would work with a setup like this.
Eek. I'm not sure I have the wherewithal to deal with Windows. I'm wondering about the process of installing and updating and maintaining of the PC and the VIs etc. Do you ever need to use a monitor and mouse on the PC, or can it all be done via VNC from the safety of a Mac?
Hello David, just found your channel today, great setup and video! could you please make a video explaining how you paired the slaves with the router and dongles?! that'd be super awesome!
It doesn't really need a video, but it's pretty straightforward to plug all computers into the router (or ethernet switch), then Vienna Ensemble Pro handles all the cross-communication between master and slave(s). Dongles are only used on slave computers and it's as simple as plugging them in (after running the usual installers).
Wow! I thought that some tricky programming was needed, good to know it's a lot easier than I thought! Cheers from Ecuador, you have a great channel, glad I found you!
David. I have 2 questions. Is number of cores important on slave? In 2020 you can buy much more powerfull PC than you suggest. Does it make sens, or Vienna cant handle more than 4 cores efficiently? Secondly. For DAW and master I want to use my iMac late 2015 intel i5 3,2 Ghz 4 core, 16 GB ram, hdd - what processes will be remain on master. Freezing, all mastering plugins? Will be this iMac ok as master machine? Many thanks
Hi David, great video.. I'm still using my Mac Pro 8 core as my main and only computer with cubase 10, I'm thinking of getting a slave and vep7, would my old Mac still be good to use as my master?
Hey David! Thanks for the video - super informative! Quick question for ya: I’ve been composing on a single 2010 iMac for 8 years and it’s on its last leg trying to keep up with larger templates. I’m a big fan of VEP and am ready to build a PC to do this kind of master/slave offloading. With a $2500 budget, would you recommend building one powerful PC to become the master and use my iMac as a slave for samples, or would it be more efficient to build 2 less powerful PC’s and continue using the iMac as the master + 2 PC slaves, like your setup? My only concern with the iMac is its hardware becoming obsolete in a couple years as Apple continues bringing new OS updates. I should also mention that I need significantly more GPU / RAM to do more video editing and my iMac can’t be upgraded any more (so that editing work has to be done on a new PC). I appreciate your feedback!
Wow!! Amazing stuff and awesome tutorials. Unfortunately I found your channel not years ago. :/ Is it possible that you make a short video how to creat such a Digital Performer and Vienna Ensemble Template? I would love to see it in detail! Greetings from Germany.
Hi David! I know this is a really old thread, but maybe you can still answer a quick question? I have a Microsoft Surface Studio 2 (i7-7820HQ, 32GB RAM) that I’d love to use as a master PC just to run my DAW and record audio. The ability to place it in its 25 degree position will help me in my workflow, and the 3:2 screen is beautiful. I also have a new 12900K build with 64GB DDR5 and multiple M.2 drives. Is there any reason why the processor in my Surface Studio on the master, combined with the 12th generation hardware on the slave should not be effective in a multi-machine setup using VEP? Thanks!
With the caveat that I have no experience with the Surface at all, really our needs boil down to CPU power, RAM quantity, and fast disk access. So if your Surface has enough of those three, sure, it could be a great computer for these purposes.
@@daviddas It’s got 32GB RAM, 7th gen i7 processor at 2.9 GHz, an M.2 SSD with read / write speeds of 3TB/s and 1 TB/s. GTX 1070 for graphics. I feel like that should be enough to run a DAW with virtual instrument processing offloaded to a more powerful server computer.
David, great video, very informative. What do you use or recommend to control midi info like cc11, cc7 etc...fader systems, breath controller to make instruments like strings sound more realistic? Thank you!
Any MIDI controller with knobs/sliders. Many keyboards have some built-in. If you want a standalone unit, you can look for something as simple/cheap as Kong's NanoKontrol, and then there are many others like that. Some more expensive solutions would be breath controllers or wind controllers -- they are a lot more involved and perhaps only worth it if you are a brass/wind player who thinks like that organically.
Hi brother. First of all, thank you so much for this GEM OF A KNOWLEDGE OF MASTER AND SLAVE! However, I, along with a whole lot of others, would love it if you could expatiate with a LIVE VIDEO EXAMPLE on how KONTAKT libraries work between MAC and windows. I work on Logic Pro X. any and all minutiae of information (including hardware and how they are/arent compatible with other hardware, etc.) on this networking and KONTAKT would be immensely appreciated. Thanks again. God bless!!
You can look at my Star Wars Secrets video if you want to see a version of this template in use. As far as hardware, all the most important info is in this very video (Ultimate Guide) that you've already watched. If you need more detailed help, that might be worth asking someone local to you to help. There are thousands of possible combinations out there, and everyone has different needs, budget, and experience, so I can't really cover that in a RU-vid video. This video was intended just to give you the big picture info. Hope that helps!
Awesome video! One thing I worry about with the slave computer and VEP is HAVING to have a template of all my instruments.... my workflow prefers a fresh empty session when starting a new piece, is this possible with a slave and VEP? (I'm a MacBook pro and logic user if that helps at all?)
Like you I am a big fan of Mac, they just lack on the power we need for these kinds of productions. I am curious how or if this would work for a Logic based setup. Logic is by far my favorite DAW but looking for a legal way to add power and I already have a capable PC built with i9 and 64 RAM. How, could that work?
Great Video David! Thank you for this detailed explanation of a master/slave set up. Awesome!!!...I noticed that you have a NI Machine Studio as well. I am wondering how you incorporate hardware like NI Machine Studio for example in this type set up? is the hardware plugged into the master or slave computer?
Hallo David, amazing video! I have two question: 1. What should be the most powerful machine, Master or Slave? Here ‘s my scenario: I’d like to build a slave pc (like yours..64 gb ram, i8..). Do you think my 2013 MBP 16bg ram could efficiently work as the master? Or it would just turn out to be the neck of a bottle? 2. The communication between libraries and daw in this master/slave setup is possible just with VEP, is right? Or are there other options? In other words: without VEP all this Daw-farm is pointless? Thx a lot!
I don't know Windows well enough to advise on the server. I was using Windows 10 when I set this up. Most important thing would be to verify that whatever you're considering is within the Vienna Ensemble Pro system requirements.
David, quick question. For the slaves, do they have to be separate computers? Is it reasonable to try something like having your sound libraries in external drives that you just connect to your main PC with the DAW? For example in my case, I have an intel core i7 laptop with 8GB ram, I have three SS usb ports. Do you think it would work if I just have my sound libraries on, let's say two external hard drives and the DAW form the laptop pulls all those sounds at recording time? I could very well be missing something very obvious here... Thank you!
Im wondering now if its possible to fork for a blade server so I can do ridiculous track counts on a 3AU. Problem is I suspect the fans on a kit like that would probably sound like having a 747 taxiing around the server cupboard
Very interesting video. I’m looking to accomplish something similar to this. But I’m constantly between two cities. What specs would you suggest for a multi laptop setup? Like what are the most important things I should be looking for? Thanks!
The requirements are pretty much the same. The difference is that laptops are often built using smaller (somewhat miniaturized) components, therefore, they are more expensive relative to the horsepower that would be available with a desktop. They are also harder or almost impossible to DIY build. Sure, you can find a decent laptop with a good CPU, then max out its RAM (hopefully to 32GB or 64GB), and it will work fine, analogous to the setup I describe in the video above.
What is the audio latency for returns? And how many tracks can be returned? I use to have a pc just for gigastudio back in the day and I used nuendo with vst sync thru a digital sound card that transferred midi as well as sample accurate sync,but I had to use sound cards to return audio,now ther e is Ethernet,let me know,,,thanks Joey
Hey Dave, great video. Can you run your buffers at 128 with VE Pro Plugs at "none"? I see 256 in your video, but for pianos and drums, that's too spongy for me. I need at least 128 with VE plugs set to "none". at least while tracking. Any info on this would be appreciated, thanks/
Hello! It's not about multi computer but... Does anybody know the correct sequence to connect Furman and UPS? Power - Furman - UPS or Power - UPS - Furman?? Cause I know that if you connect an UPS to the Furman it may cause the fact that the batteries work more than requested... on the other side APC suggestes to connect their UPS directly to the power instead to another device (in this case a Furman). That being said I'm a bit confused... Any suggestions? Thank you!
Are there any cautions regarding the physical Ethernet connections? Would you daisy chain the 3 machines or would connecting through a switch cause any problems?
There aren't any cautions. (Not sure exactly what you might be asking there.) I don't believe you can/should daisy chain them -- a simple gigabit switch (est. cost $10-20) is the way to go. Consult the Vienna Ensemble Pro manual or online tech notes for more detail on that.
Great video David. After many years of inactivity, I decided to equipe myself to produce quite a lot of mostly orchestral music I composed and arranged in the past. What is your opinion on VSL SE (for starters) Cubase 10, MacBook Pro 2,3 GHz Intel Core i7 16GB Ram? Is a Mac mini 3,0 GHz 6‑Core Intel Core i5 Prozessor der 8th Generation (Turbo Boost up to 4,1 GHz) with 64GB Ram recommendable as a slave? What size of hard disc would you recommend? Thank you very much for you very instructive work!
Don't know anything about VSL SE; I use all Kontakt-based instruments. That setup should give you a good solid setup. Hard to predict specifically because everyone's needs and usage is different. As far as hard drive size, just make sure you have enough for all the libraries you plan to run, plus plenty of overhead for the OS and programs. Again, hard to give a one-size-fits-all answer.
