No video :(

The ULTIMATE Indie Garage Rock Tone Machine!...but WTF is it?

Подписаться 148 тыс.

Просмотров 56 тыс.

50% 1

In this video we'll diagnose and repair an amp which many thought had legendary rock and roll connections. This is an Orpheum labeled Valco amplifier, but as we will discover, it is truly a Supro Model 24 (S6424) underneath, an amp that for many years was assumed to be the amp that Jimmy Page used on the first Led Zeppelin album. We now know definitively that this is not the true Zep amp, so we will examine the evidence. Also, we will talk about replacement tubes for the fabled 6973 which power this amp. The 6cz5 is considered by many to be the best drop-in replacement, but is it truly a drop in substitution, or are modifications necessary? We will also talk a bit about the importance of having the appropriate speaker for your vintage amp. This one originally came with a Jensen C12Q, but that has been replaced with a Realistic speaker made by Utah. We'll discuss why this speaker isn't ideal for this amp. At the end of the video, we'll demo the amp with a PRS CE24 and my Zio Meteorologist.
#restoration #electronics #guitar
SHOW YOUR SUPPORT
1: Donate via Paypal: paypal.me/guit...
2: Buy Merch: bit.ly/Guitolog...
3: Send in Viewer Mail. (Contact Me for details at bradlinzy@gmail.com )
4: Purchase an ad! (Rate sheets available upon request at email above.)
5: Buy something from a sponsor and tell them I sent you.
6: Stand in the middle of the street naked screaming "LONG LIVE THE GUITOLOGIST!" Then when the cops arrive, tell them about my channel.

Опубликовано:

28 авг 2024

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист

Посмотреть позже

Комментарии : 263

@thetoneknob4493 2 года назад

it was rad that you had the correct speaker for this amp. it somehow reminded me of my cool old timer neighbor who had an pristine antique Winchester mod 94 lever action made in 1896 in 32-40 a caliber that was very hard to find in modern days, he told me that he had owned it for a long time but never got a chance to shoot it witch was on his bucket list. i told him to give me a few mins to go forage threw my strange ammo collection. i returned with 3 full 20ct boxes of cartridges the boxes wer for the 32win spsl witch he pointed out to witch i told him to check the head stamp on the actual cartridge and he let out a gasp...yup i said their all 32-40 sp nos. he asked what i wanted for them and my reply was for him to shoot them all then reload the shells a few times and just enjoy the experience!

@TheGuitologist 2 года назад

Beautiful.

@simonlinser8286 Год назад

That's a. Wonderful story, you rock!

@thelongvirtuesignal8551 3 месяца назад

Awesome.

@orionwarren4244 2 года назад

Valco nee 'Supro' made the kind of classic rock tone we came to appreciate on our 70s vinyl. These little amps sounded monstrous in the studio and truth be told, not too shabby in the garage or bedroom. Their early breakup and natural distortion from those, shall we say, inexpensive components Valco used are what made that tone!

@simonkormendy849 2 года назад

What you see on the scope at about 27:29 is classic crossover-distortion, suggesting that either the two output tubes aren't properly biased, or, they're worn-out, or, something isn't letting them operate correctly.

@ritualdevices 2 года назад

Brad and Uncle Doug on the same day... Perfect! Cheers!

@filonome 2 года назад

always a great way to kick off the weekend with a new amp video from the Guitologist! thanks Brad, and have a great weekend!

@TheGuitologist 2 года назад

Thanks for watching, Jon.

@williambock1821 2 года назад

I just went through this issue building a clone of a Valco 6161. It’s basically the same design. I had to up the dropping resistor to the screen node to get the voltage down to 280 for using 6cz5’s. But that lowered the preamp node too much. Caused anemic tone. I branched off the first node ,bypassing the screen node to the 15k resistor to the preamp node. Fixed it right up! So to sum up, I just used a combo of ladder and branch filtering. The amp is one of my favorite builds. Really sounds good. Update:went back to the 6973’s and original ladder filtering scheme. They just have a bit MORE of everything the 6CZ5’s have. But it’ll accept both types of tubes with the screen grids jumpered. Just have to lower the screen voltage.

@TobyDN1982 2 года назад

It's so relaxing to see you at work on all those old amplifiers. I only work on my guitars electrically like swapping out pickups now and then and experiment with different switching ideas. But I keep way clear of high voltage appliances. Keep up the excellent work, love your channels as well as your work 🙂

@simonlinser8286 Год назад

It's not HV! HV is like above 480 V I thought!?

@williambock1821 2 года назад

Good lord Brad, I have a new appreciation for your videography skills. I watched a video about a Roberts reel to reel just to get a look at the chassis before I actually start working on one. The info was there but I was actually yelling ,” SPIT IT OUT!” at the TEEVEE because the guy was mumbling and all over the place with the video! I appreciate that he put the information up and I’m sure I couldn’t make a better video but it doesn’t change the fact that I got an aneurism trying to watch it! You obviously have a natural talent for video production. I can’t imagine how annoying it would be to film a trouble shooting process as well as write an outline and something akin to a script. Then again it’s probably a pretty great experience when it all comes together right!

@TheGuitologist 2 года назад

Shoot first and ask "is this necessary" later. That's my philosophy on video production.

@williambock1821 2 года назад

@@TheGuitologist Thats a good way to record music as well. There’s usually SOMETHING worth making into a song.

@gregbrenyo6518 2 года назад

Old amps like this have tons of character. This would be a great one to bring into the studio. Sure it sounds boxy in the video but mic'd up it would sound totally different.

@howabouthetruth2157 Год назад

Well, ya also have to consider the pesky compression that happens to audio when loaded onto youtube.

@StevenCarinci 9 месяцев назад

Sounds boxy because of the ceramic caps. Old and dried out. Orange drops would remedy that for pennies.

@stevenkimsey7039 2 года назад

I recently took an interest in the old Bose Wave radios. The prices are still high. Apparently the capacitors need to be replaced, just like older guitar amplifiers

@Bo-Yan Год назад

Hey Brad, greetings from Bulgaria! Your amazing videos are very interesting, educational and motivational! I want to thank you so much for it! You are super professional musician and intelligent equipment technician! My respects! Happy New Year 2023 to you, your family, friends, all the people around you and your followers here! :-) God bless you all!

@lloydluokkala4274 2 года назад

This show just keeps getting better...the playing, that clip of JP showing the tele he got from JB and that little 6970 supro with the 12' speaker., the phone call to SRVs amp tech. So much info I may want to watch this one twice after I go check my national and my supro for the 550 code on the jensens

@BrandochGarage Год назад

These are the kinds of videos that really make me wish I knew a bit more about electronics. Great stuff - the amp is really cool!

@stevehead365 2 года назад

The rubbing speaker coils: If the coils are not detaching from the cone, remove the dust cap, shim out the coil, inject a small amount of water and let it evaporate for a couple of days. No guarantees but it might work and save a recone job. Good luck.

@bobboitt3126 2 года назад

Yep it works, I used acetone though.

@N_A_Lund 2 года назад

I have what I’m fairly certain is the Montgomery Ward equivalent (so to speak) of this amp and I have to say returning it to an old ‘66 C12Q was really what brought the whole thing home. As nice as the newer Jupiter speaker has the previous owner had installed was-the magnet was just to big or something.

2 года назад

For my money, it sounded best with that ‘Dali’ Tele you were using at the end. Fantastic.

@michaelbraun3960 2 года назад

Really enjoy your videos! It's great to see and hear these classics, many of which I wouldn't be able to get to see in person. Thank you!!!

@robertclarkguitar 2 года назад

Dude I just love listening to you mess around playing the guitars ...the bonus is generally the old amps at that. Plus I learn a bit more about the good electronics each upload. Merry Xmas to you and fam Brad.

@electroKrunch 2 года назад

Everytime I watch your vids I get the itch to go out garage saling & hitting up resales shops!! Great job reviving that Orpheum, sounds decent even with the RS speaker! Thanks Brad!!

@TheGuitologist 2 года назад

Hey Karl. Good to see you here. Thanks for watching, as always.

@Superjet113 2 года назад

Nice work and playing Brad, thank you Sir! Have a good weekend! :)

@chadapold1055 2 года назад

I remember having one of those orange realistics and liking it quite alot.

@TheGuitologist 2 года назад

I think it would be perfect for some amps, just not this one. Too much dope on the cone for this one.

@fredgarvin4482 2 года назад

@@TheGuitologist would you mind explaining what you mean by dope? I don't know what this is referring to.

@williamkaylor1191 2 года назад

@@fredgarvin4482 It's an old school name for lacquer or any solvent based coating, clear to opaque. Lacquer, or dope, hardens when it dries, and would make the cone more stiff, effecting it's response.

@davydean 16 дней назад

Wow- Thanks Brad! That amp is RAGING!!

@turkeytrailhoneybeefarmgeo6292 2 года назад

Found one about 15 years ago at a salvage store $50. Got new can cap new rec tube and a new after market handle and a grounded power supply. Ended up at around $450. traded it to a guy that swore it was a page amp. The guy that repaired it said Jimmy didint play or record with this amp.I told him. I made out like a bandit.

@melvynobrien6193 2 года назад

The amp sounds a bit boxy to me. Back in the sixties most of the guitarists I knew thought the Supros were crap. Their reputation has changed over the years. Entertaining and informative video, Brad.

@stevesuv 2 года назад

They were made for accordions and mics. An Italian tradition.

@timothyb1559 2 года назад

Magnific! Love me some old Valco. Other than the handle, the construction techniques and materials are identical to my old Airline 62-9017a. For any would-be Santas out there, I could use an Airline logo to make mine complete. Great video - thanks, Brad!

@matbow13 2 года назад

Re-pop Airline logo's are available on Ebay. Black or White. They are glue on...no screws

@234dilligaf 2 года назад

@Timothy B . . I was thinking the same thing. I have the Airline 62-9017A as well. Man it's hard to find a whole lot of info on it. Mine needs work, and has probably been in someone's basement for decades. It does have the Airline logo, but it's missing the big V that goes on the front.

@hellodrjeckyl 2 года назад

I keep missing these premieres dude. RU-vid never notifies me for your videos anymore.

@harrykadaras9459 Год назад

Beautiful vintage tone that blows anything current out of the water...

@michaelmattson3515 2 года назад

Wow looking at the square nuts on the side of the amp. Cool. That’s what voice rub sounds like. 🙏 thanks.

@seansweeney3532 2 года назад

I've had a couple of these over the years... they really have maximum bark!! Some amps break up so gradually... but these really jump at you... I would have liked to hear it miked up well, to show what they do with a good mic or two catching that speaker and amp drive

@craigjacob3704 2 года назад

Man oh man mega respect dude. Wish I could work on or build amps😁👍

@rlboyles1 2 года назад

Good timing - I just bought the same amp --- but it's the VALCO AIRLINE version 62-9033A Appears identical. Mine appears all original. Has the original tubes - all RCA's including the 6973's. Original Jensen C12Q. Killer tremolo! Great to see your video to help me go thru the amp! QUESTION --- I'm thinking this is the same circuit as the VALCO Gretsch 6162, except the addition of reverb on the 6162? Thank you!

@pedraw 2 года назад

The demo playing is always killer to watch. Nice old amp Steve has there and sounds good too.

@haus05 2 года назад

for whatever reason the algorythm has stopped telling me when you post new videos... thankfully i check in once in a while to those i follow and appreciate. Merry Xmas Brad! keep making the great content you make ! love from Canada

@Jenswsmjens 2 года назад

I have no idea what this is all about, but i realy like watching it. I think it's an engineering mentality thing. Keep posting! Love this content.

@chuckmay5769 2 года назад

Hey Brad, As you obviously know, Valco made the same amp branded for several companies. My second amp ever was the Supro version. A few years after I had moved on to other amps, I read an interview with Page that had photos of the same amp but with a Gretch badge. Jimmy referred to it as having two 10" speakers. My little Supro also had two 10s and although his amp looked darker in the black and white picture, and had the different logo, they looked identical. Just my 2 cents to muddy the waters as to the brand of Jimmy's amp. Thanks again for all the great 'edu-tainment' you provide!

@YeeThirty 2 года назад

Brad, I'm a long time sub with ALL notofications turned on for your channels. I have not been notified of any of your recent videos. Just a heads up mate, hope you are all doing well and best wishes from Canada!

@TheGuitologist 2 года назад

I know. You and I both know why.

@YeeThirty 2 года назад

@@TheGuitologist yea, usually they just effect non sub interaction... seems they are going to a new level lately... it sucks as it effects people's ability to learn from your videos as well :(, keep up the good fight man, we're rooting for ya!

@tonewitch 2 года назад

Same here!!!!

@homegrownson 2 года назад

My 1967 Supro Thunderbolt was a Valco Amp and it came with 15" Jensen speaker

@framusburns-hagstromiii808 2 года назад

🤗🤗 That amp sounds really great!! Old pro tip, ....record with a small amp to get a huge sound.....good advice. Thanks Brad..Cheers and Merry Christmas!!

@enigma1247 2 года назад

More like a dumb tip...smh

@R3TR0R4V3 2 года назад

Considering that's what a lot of old pros did, it's more like a fact. 😎

@williamkaylor1191 2 года назад

@@enigma1247 The engineer that mixed Def Leppards Hysteria album (plus others) showed me how their producer, Mutt Lange, got such huge guitar tracks. He opened the door to the vocal booth and sitting on a stool was a small guitar combo amp with a 10" speaker. it had great sounding distortion and drive and it was conversation loud. Stack a double handful of tracks with different tones: Voila!

@johnstrange6799 2 года назад

Jimmy through his original rig hits hard!

@melvynobrien6193 2 года назад

Telecasters rule!

@teemoleague907 2 года назад

That blows away my boss tremolo pedal.

@tomwarren6913 2 года назад

Steve Wilson worked on my 65 Gibson Mercury amp last year,an old barn find,glad to bring this old amp back to life.Tell Catfish hi for me next time you see him for me Brad!😁

@russl9029 2 года назад

Nice! I was hoping you would do a video on one of these type amps!

@tamedragon66 2 года назад

I've seen that V/I = Futile sticker countless times, but it wasn't until this moment that 'Resistance is futile' jumped out at me.

@keithschneidly3922 2 года назад

In the 70's friend brought over a Supro⚡2-12 combo amp. Pretty awesome.

@meesterprofe007 2 года назад

Glad to see you are back informing us of obscure stuff...stay strong and THANK YOU! this is my Christmas present Sir Bradford😊😏😏

@brich2929 2 года назад

That PT is super clean. Looks brand new.

@rebelcat420 2 года назад

Good call on the 5y3…the higher voltage from the 5ar4 + the higher line voltage today vs 1960s, a lot of components would have been cooking in there!

@patrickkoenigsfeld1253 6 месяцев назад

I LOVE old utah speakers! They are spongy as hell and have a very unique tone. I have a quad reverb with utah speakers and they sound amazing with pedals. The quad utahs are the same speakers that kurt used on inutero. From what ive seen, a lot of blues and country guitarist hate these speakers compared to the jensen alternative.

@santrixhimself3679 2 года назад

man i just love your intros

@jamesjohanson5675 5 месяцев назад

daaaym i did not see that coming.. how well it sounded

@podfuk 2 года назад

This amp sounds damn good!

@allenaviation5746 2 года назад

Nice one! That amp sounds good. Also cool to hear some Orpheum history. I have an Orpheum archtop guitar that I've always figured was older than 1950s.

@mikedennis6979 2 года назад

Love the old Valco. Pull the speaker from an old Hammond. Alnico , 16 ohms @ 15 watts. Perfect voicing

@R3TR0R4V3 2 года назад

True! It's fairly easy to pick up old Jensen's online (reverb, eBay), for not much money too. I have one from an organ pull and it sounds great.

@Bob-Whiting 2 года назад

I'm gonna comment before even watching today all because of your thumbnail for this vid. RED ZEPPLIN roflmfao! Very clever bro and Merry F'n Christmas! lol

@michaelorton9887 6 месяцев назад

The realistic speaker sounds great

@jonnybeck6723 2 года назад

That wuz great, Brad... Thankum wally mooch

@swingarmer 2 года назад

The pin out modification might have something to do with using a 6cz5 or even a 5cz5 if you used a resistor to reduce the heater to 4.7 vac on the 5 volt version, usually 1 ohm for two tubes.These are much much cheaper tubes and comparable tube data. Long plate 5cz5's are very cheap and plentiful, I have a huge stash of them :) Remember too that the way the 6973 and 6cz5 are rated differently on tube sheets and are very likely able to handle the same voltages. Try a 5cz5 long plate I think you will like. BTW I see you address the 6cz5 later :)

@hallanvaara6106 2 года назад

A very nice video! Thank you Brad and Steve!

@scottkasper6378 2 года назад

These sound so awesome. But why do we hear that Jimmy used marshalls?

@williambaker1136 2 года назад

Excellent work per usual, Brad!

@homietclown 2 года назад

Woo Hoo like number 235! Great video man. Keep up All of your good works, here and in the real world. I believe in you.

@TheGuitologist 2 года назад

You're too kind. Thanks Cecil.

@richardturk7162 Год назад

Just scored two military RCA tubes from 1944. A VT-115 A 6L6G and a VT-115 CRC6L6.

@Timconnorsis 2 года назад

Brad, what is that book you always refer too.? It seems to have everything you need in there. Really enjoy your videos too, if you have any vintage amps for sale I’d love to get one that you’ve worked on!

@reptalien_music 2 года назад

I am digging the overdrive tone on this amp. I bet it would even better with a more closed back

@VashStarwind 2 года назад

Great playing once again man!

@simaojoseph 2 года назад

Would have loved to hear it close miked

@glenkepic3208 2 года назад

Great offering ! Bummer about the speaker. I miss Radio Shack.

@GIBKEL Год назад

I have A/B’d the EH 6973 and RCA black plate 6973 and it’s a world of difference, at least in my Valco Harmony 430. It came to life with the RCA’s. Getting rare and I’ve only came across a couple of matched pairs that were within a 100$ or a bit more these last few years. Got burnt on one set but it has been worth it to upgrade to these old 50’s RCA. Don’t know how the Sylvania 6973 compare though? Finally have a great backup pair to boot. I imagine that many a modern Supro owner has tried them out but I have no idea of how they sound in that circuit that uses the EH’s.

@TheGuitologist Год назад

I agree with pretty much everything you just said.

@dannymarks988 2 года назад

Looks like those marketed by Gretsch too. Another informative video. Thanks!

@phillipbainbridge9107 2 года назад

RCA projectors, like the one you showed a few years ago, use 6973 output in push-pull configuration. I still have a nice amp pull from one.

@phillipbainbridge9107 2 года назад

Voiced like Jimmy and his Tele' I believe that Zio found its mate!

@willdenham 2 года назад

What a beaut! Nice growl on that thing.

@codybuffoord3172 11 месяцев назад

Love watching these, learning every day

@canigetachannel 2 года назад

Excellent video, Brad. Thanks

@paulj0557tonehead 2 года назад

Since I'm an organ player and guitar player I'm a big fan of Jensen Special Design speakers for Fender, Wurlitzer, and Thomas Organ Co., but UTAH speakers sound great on the Fender Bassman 2-12" cabinets.

@m600blu Год назад

I still have my first real head an old peavey 70’s era super festival F-800G with matching 4S scorpion cabinet. Of course it’s not working so I’ll be reworking it. It has 10 final power amps, and I may switch it to tubes.

@TheGuitologist Год назад

Could make for an interesting video.

@guitfidle 2 года назад

Man, I have an old Bogen Challenger CH35 that I converted to a guitar amp a few years ago. It has 6973s in it and sounds very much like the Supro/Valco, I absolutely love the sound of those things!! Irun it into a 1x12 open back cab I built which I also put a Jensen 12" in. I actually have 2 spare pairs of 6973s I pulled out of an old Silvertone console stereo 😍 (yes, I saved the associated output transformers) Seriously one of my favorite tubes, just a big fat warm dirty sound.

@ROCKNROLLMODS 2 года назад

Thanks for the video. You make tube amp repair look like commen sense. Keep on rocking

@brianmccowan1949 2 года назад

I like these and have two of them - one Gretsch and one National branded. I also built one with no tremolo from a Hammond organ chassis. Years ago I bought many 6973s and 6CZ5s. Per your comments about RCA tubes - they are built better and sound better than the Sylvania tubes of the same specs/numbers from the same time period. Their structure is quite different. Also, although tube manuals state different voltage ratings between the 6973s and the 6CZ5s the RCA tubes under a magnifying glass look absolutely identical except for the pin connections. So for the RCAs I think they are the same tube. And - do they sound like JP? Maybe, but I sure as Hell don't.

@garyyarago2096 Год назад

These are the same (Utah) speakers as my 71 twin reverb,I'm not the original owner but I believe they were stock, sound good.

@Bangkokguitar 2 года назад

Some players are going to see this and look to buy this baby now. Mark my words.

@robertinogochev3682 2 года назад

Damn, that sounds good. I really want one of the old Supro amps. Maybe one days I'll find one.

@knuckleheadsaloon 2 года назад

Love your vids mate, they're always awesome and this one rocks too ! Keep up the good work.

@grimmmstudios2367 Год назад

Thanks for saving my Xmas, have you come across the modern Supro Black Magik? I like mine, has everything i need, trem, verb, 2 channels and master vol, seems very well built ( for a modern amp ), thank god Electro Harmonix still make the 6973 tubes though- I bought a couple of spare sets just in case anyway. Keep up the good work.

@averyadrian1534 Год назад

That amp sounds awesome

@roadshowautosports 2 года назад

Hey, Brad, great in depth troubleshooting video!!! Your explanation on jumping the pins 1 and 8, should we jump those in an amp using 6973’s? It wouldn’t hurt them would it? Because I’m thinking of adding a switch instead of jumping directly, any thoughts? Thank you for all of your help in keeping this art alive! Wish I have a small fraction of your knowledge!!!

@234dilligaf 2 года назад

That amp has the exact same tolex pattern, and grill cloth as my Airline 62-9017A. . Also has the exact same 35mfd 50v capacitors, which I'm getting ready to replace because one of them has exploded like a firecracker.

@wadereynoldsgm 2 года назад

Great video, Brad! Keep it up!

@thebuck1152 7 месяцев назад

Sweet sounding amp

@drkarr 2 года назад

Those orange painted “Realistic” speakers were actually just rebranded made in the USA Utah speakers. They would have likely had an aluminum dust cap originally. Great speakers!

@Kahuna54 7 месяцев назад

I find these videos so interesting.

@rothbekirkendall7756 2 года назад

Hey Brad. IDK, it could be me, but at about 36:40- 36:41, when you are putting the nut on the screw, I noticed rocking, of something. I don't know, if it was the spkr. rocking on a potentially slightly warped front panel, or if it was the entire amp, rocking on the bench. Wouldn't the first scenario, also warp the spkr. ring, when tightened, creating the cone rub?.. Like i said, it might be me, but there was a definite rocking motion, somewhere. And, if Steve replaces the spkr., it may cause the same issue, with the new spkr..

@Gtrtech 2 года назад

That was my first amp in the early 80s only mine was supro branded with the gray covering. Also the first amp that got sacrificed to the gods of learning amp building.

@whimpypatrol5503 Год назад

I can't prove it, but I do know Page said in an interview about 1969 that he used a small Rickenbacker amp in the studio for Zeppelin's first album. I had the privilege of getting one of the first copies of the album in early January of 1969 (or late December 1968). I remember he said Rickenbacker because I did a double take and thought to myself (being from America) that I didn't know Rickenbackers made amps.

@whimpypatrol5503 Год назад

Maybe it was made by Supro for Rickenbacker

@DeadKoby 2 года назад

My Jukebox has 6973.... I THINK....... damn, gotta check my old videos. I put the EH in there, and it's been a non-issue.

@paulj0557tonehead 2 года назад

Nice break up! Never underestimate the sonic character of ceramic disc capacitors.

@hazysativa3045 2 года назад

My first show was at the Orpheum in Boston in 77... The Dead.

@stevenkimsey7039 2 года назад

I always enjoy your gear related content 👍

@howabouthetruth2157 Год назад

I could've swore I remember reading an interview decades ago with Jimmy Page, where he did claim to use a Supro amp in the studio for the 1st Zep album. He even stated that once he mentioned the Supro in a very early interview, how everyone began snatching them up, and he couldn't even find one to buy for himself. So what amp did he use back then? Hopefully, the answer is in this video, so I'll have to watch it again, because I can't recall.

@KeritechElectronics 2 года назад

450V on 6973/EL84 B+? Stand-by by cutting the bias off? Holy shit, that amp is an output tube killer. Dropping the B+ is definitely a good idea here.

@TheGuitologist 2 года назад

I just think that switching that switch and causing a spike in current immediately, without a charging power capacitor seems like it could eventually harm the tube. I'll admit I'm not certain this would be harmful.