The Ultimate Infantry Rifle - M468 

What are your go-to powders for 6.8 SPC after all these years? Anything come out lately that gives you better performance?

@@LRRPFco52 Hey, sorry for the late reply. So by performance I'm going to assume velocity / terminal affect with "good" accuracy. Generally, AA2200 is the go to for 6.8. However, because it is very energetic, you have to be careful with pressure spiking and temperature effects. Shooter's World Tactical Rifle would be the new powder with similar performance. I haven't tested it yet, but Tac Rifle is as energetic and it's flash suppressed. Also, SW claims that it burns much cleaner and is more linear pressure wise. The new powder for light bullets (85 gn Barnes, 90gn Gold Dot) would probably be CFE Black. Gilt-edge accuracy usually goes to extruded powders like H322 or 8208XBR at the cost of max speed. 68Forums has a lengthy post on reloading the 6.Great.

@@ZeeGerman36 Thanks. I lurked 6.8forums since the beginning. Something seems to have changed with the format. I really liked the older format better. I helped some guys build some very early 6.8 SPC carbines before a dedicated magazine had even been designed back in late 2003. It was being advertised as working from 5.56 mags at the time, but didn’t if you loaded up more than a few rounds.

Cavity back 6.5grendel 118grn is 2550fps from an 18in barrel faster than spc2. From a shorter barrel.

I thoughts exactly. Salute 🫡

What happened to Mack?

​@@olivereckman9961Brain cancer I think

@@wishuhadmyname damn. That sucks

O wow , I never knew! I loved that show

Great game! lol

No clue about the game, but love A.R.M.S. products

Not good, not good! He's dead, we're fucked! Who's with me? I'm with you! AGHHHHHHHHH LIMA OSCAR LIMA, OVER! AIM AT THEIR LEADER!

Vegas 2 right? Loved those games. My first multiplayer game. Xbox 360 was golden years of gaming

@@EdwardSnortin AIM AND SHOOT!

Same, when learning about the ballistic performances, 6.5 Grendel just looked like a better overall choice. I ended up not adopting either after the civilian market lost interest in a new AR caliber and doubled down on good ol 5.56. I'm still surprised to see the amount of 6.8 SPC on store shelves, and I can't tell you the last time I've seen Grendel.

I never got the Grendel apathy. Even here, he didn't mention it once. I got a slick one built short years ago on a Magtac lower. It's better than sliced bread as a round and easier on the bolt lugs than 6.8. I think it was foreign made and nobody wanted a cart built off 7.62x39 case design. But it works and works well!

Went with 6.5 when I took the dive too. Without going on too much a tangent, Cheaper steel case was the deciding factor as well and is pretty darn accurate for what it is. The Hornady SST is devastating. The cartridge has taken heat for not being conducive to FA usage. A friend didn’t have any problems with his FA lower and my upper and I haven’t experienced this while testing some of the go fast triggers. Maybe it’s the magazines? E-Landers have been perfect. Also don’t need to buy different mags and can swap uppers onto non6.8 specific lowers… big advantage

@@TheDoorspook11c Tim has had Grendels on the channel a lot, and he's commented favorably, it was one of his hunting setups a few years back.

Looking for something around these cartridges to do a hunting rifle for my daughter. I have been giving myself a headache trying to figure out how I want to go. I would have done .300blk pistol suppressed, but I'm not a fan of "registering" anything with the government. I'm disabled, so I definitely want to make sure that whatever I get for her stays relevant. Where we hunt, .300blk would definitely suffice. Not many long range shots. I wouldn't mind her also having some longer range capabilities, because she will have access to other properties, aside from the ones that are owned by my family members. It's sounds dumb to get a young lady a AR for a hunting rig, but hogs are a thing here, and I probably won't be around very long. I want to leave her with something that fits with hunting, and also self defense for when she gets older. 6 arc has been looking really good, but availability and longevity are a concern.

There is an okay chance the 6.8 x 43 will stick around because in the future there will be many 6.8 millimeter bullets being made for 6.8 x 51. The 6.8 x 43 Special Purpose Cartridge may need to be modified to shoot 135 grain bullets. We shall see.

6.8 spc seems to be dying. 6.5 grendel is doing well and is readily available.

It will be around. In 2006 when I got my 6.8 the "WORD" was It's too expensive and you won't be able to find ammo in a couple years. I bought another 1000 rounds last month at Sportsman Guide for under $20 a box. Problem with 6.8 is all us rednecks down south buy up the whole production run. In Texas and Oklahoma 6.8 is VERY POPULAR.

It won’t. The 6.8 SPC has nine toes in the grave.

6.5 Grendel or to a more specialized degree 6mm ARC make 6.8 SPC pointless. Its a short range cartridge with not much versatility compared to the 6.5 Grendel which is arguably the best cartridge you can put in an AR/M4.

Maybe in Australia the new owners will do something with it 🤔

Barrett should have bribed whoever Sig did.

@@OddballAZ 😂😂😂

Indeed. I’ve killed several white trail with my REC7 and LWRC PSD in 6.8.

If you’re ever looking for magazines- PRI of mk 12 mod 0 and mod h fame- makes by far the best magazines for this caliber.

It was in Texas that I learned about the hunting potential of the 6.8, and Oklahoma. Thank you for watching!

I adore LWRC. I fantasized it was the LandWarfareResourceCenter, as Lauer blah blah wasn't sexy enough for the carbine they made! When it was new, I was all in and then a man brought the gospel of the 6.5 grendel. I wouldn't buy an Alexander Arms, as I wanted a LWRC 6.5! Lol. Lancer had them, but if you remember Lancer, they looked like space guns. I had one built by IV8888's Master gunsmith back in the day, a MK12 modH in 6.5 ! Sorry for the length but you sent me back. LWRC was super classy! 👌

I owned a LWRC M6A2 in 6.8 Spc. Wouldn’t group worth a crap. 8” groups at 100 yds, 5 shots, leupold 4-16 known hood grouping scope used on other ARs. LWRCs customer service was the worst ever, even worse than Sig. They sent it back with a new barrel which they denied then finally admitted they put a out of spec chamber on it originally. Next one would only shoot 5” groups. Sold that trash.

I love LWRC, too (I own 3). The only issue with the Six8 is that the rifle was actually scaled up slightly, so it is not fully compatible with existing milspec parts.

the LWRC line - 6.8 was developed by warfighters for warfighters

@@oteliogarcia1562 Bingo !

except it drops like a rock. garbage for anything over 300m. would be atrocious in Afghanistan for long range shooting.

@@Robertsmith-un5cu Who said this round was meant to reach out in the vast distances of Afghanistan? At 300 yards 6.8 drops about 2.5 inches more than a 5.56. Not bad considering it’s shooting a bullet twice it’s size coming from the same size platform.

Noveske Pinned 14.5" with XM68GD 90gr pushed 2830fps with a Magneto Speed. 170lb hogs drop in place. Still love the 6.8

​​@@Robertsmith-un5cu 6arc for the win. Just needs shitty steel case.

There are some great cartridges out there like 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC. The last two came after the 6.8. At the time the 6.8 made a lot of sense to me as a military rifle.

​​@@Militaryarmschannel Hows the life of the bolt face on a 6.8spc gun btw? Better than grendal or about the same? I ask because the walls look so thin.

@@Militaryarmschannel It would be really cool if some RU-vidr ( doesn’t have to be you) drilled down on turning a 6.5 Grendel into the Ultimate Infantry Rifle and SAW. The lights went off in my head when I saw a video of a guy cycling a suppressed AR carbine with subsonic ammunition. That means that such a system has the potential, possibly, of replacing 300 Blackout and 5.56 out to 308 distances. If it were possible to marry a TACOMHQ structured barrel with a reliable high capacity drum or magazine on the SAW version then it may meet all of the Army’s weight, range and accuracy requirements. The bolt face would make it easier and cheaper for countries like Finland and others to convert to 6.5G.

It was a collaboration between one gunsmith in AMU and an SF guy from 5th Group primarily, definitely not the whole AMU. The AMU Commander at the time (3-time ODA Commander, CIF XO and Commander for C 1-1 Okinawa, former enlisted LRS guy) tried to square them away with the Army optimum caliber studies dating way back, the Aberdeen ballistics studies data covering decades of research, etc., but they ignored him and were very insular, distrusting of anyone outside of a tiny group of guys. That led them to choose the wrong bore diameter in my opinion. I think a .257” would have been the ideal way to go, and handled by people other than Remington, PT&G for reamers, or the NSW folks at the time having input on what was wanted. NSW asked Remington if they could make 6.8x43 spit a 115gr out at 2900fps, to which Remington said, “Sure, no problem.” without even running the numbers. Several elements with the US SOF community were looking for 3 different cartridge/carbine/rifle concepts: One was an Unconventional Warfare 7.62x39, AK mag-compatible M4 basically for certain grey/black areas for ease of logistics and deniability. One was for Designated Marksmen in Ranger Regiment, SEALs, and SF. The other was for increased terminal performance as you mentioned, from M4s. 6.8x43 attempted to satisfy the latter 2 with different chambers and barrel lengths, but ultimately failed since BCs are too low with that bore diameter and allowable case length. Mk.262 with 77gr SMK became the solution to the DM cartridge, loaded in SPRs and M4A1s. JSOC-A and JSOC-N had been using 68gr and 69gr match loads in their unit-built DM carbines even prior to the adoption of the M4A1, with free float and custom barrels from Douglas and Lilja, topped with various early LPVOs. The question became, “Why would we adopt a cartridge that isn’t compatible with any of the other weapons in the sub units, that has more drop and drift than Match 5.56 loads?” The guys pushing 6.8 then flew to the UK and met with MoD, telling them they had better start tooling up for production now, or get left behind as 6.8x43 NATO gets adopted. It was really poorly-conceived and managed from the start from a military adoption perspective. This isn’t a critique on the fact that many hunters have benefited from it with a better solution than .223 Rem in their AR-15s.

@@Appalachia_Ape In over a year it has gotten an AERO Precision lower , Magpul PRS Gen 3 stock and a single stage trigger , and also has gotten a bi pod. I run a Vortex one piece base and Vortex Diamondback Tactical 30MM 4-16x44 FFP. I have started loading Speer 130 gr flat base over Win 748 2500+ fps and 3/4 MOA at 100 yards. This is my 400 yard deer load. ( Book load from Speer online reloading PDF ). I have unlocked the secret recipe for the Berger 130 gr Classic Hunter with G1 B.C. .498. Using Hornady LEVEREVOLUTION powder it's fully stable now. Need to load long but have powder charges to seat inside mag but need more load development to accurize. I hope this encouraged you to take another look at the 6.8 SPC.

I reload for mine as well, I like 110 gr. HPBTs

90gr TNT/95gr TTSX both over Accurate 2200

and the same effect will take place in any other caliber ... stop comparing apples to oranges - steel tipped AP rounds to standard FMJ of other types ... when you take AP vs AP the 556 still ends up in the "pathetic" bin ...

SF is using carbines in 6mm ARC. For applications where you need to be able to shoot at extended ranges, 6mm ARC is way better. 6.8 loses steam too fast to ve a good long range round.

Same.

Don’t forget thermite.

Just produce enough 6.8 and it'll also be readily available at a manageable price.

Apples and oranges. .308 is a larger round requiring a large frame (AR-10) platform. 6.8SPC is chamberable in AR-15 sized platforms. That being said, I think 6.5 Grendel is a far superior round to the SPC. All around better ballistics with heavier bullets.

@@unclebob540i3 I'm sure your right. I'm just saying for now, availability, price ect.

@@vasoconvictTough to sell a new AR-15 cartridge when the average shooter isn't gonna notice a difference.

Thank you!

So what your saying is, if I'm increasing ammo weight, changing mags, increasing ammo expense, for the same price I mine as well run the superior rifle cartridge that is more avaliable and will be for decades, the .308? This is the problem, if I'm trying to run light kit 5.56 is great, if I need range I can run .308 for the same price as 6.8spc and be hilariously more effective on target, only real downside would be rifle weight and total ammo capacity due to a larger mag requirement.

@@AndrewW. Thats it in a nutshell. The deciding factor for me was platform weight. AR-15 vs AR-10 and if I was going tp shlep around a heavier AR-10 there are better choices than .308. Examples , .243, 260 rem, 7mm08, 6.5cred, and several more. My real world hunting in Oklahoma is 30-400 yds and 6.8 fits the bill. I shot a 400 lb. hog at 200+ yds this winter and the 6.8 killed him so fast all 4 feet never moved, His chin and stomach hit the ground and it was over. 308 is not hilariously more effective than 6.8 ask a hog hunter. 6.8 is not a moose, elk, and bear rifle, thats what a .300 wm is for, .308 is over rated but it is the parent case of many GREAT cartridges.

@@melechc7267 .308 will have better penetration depth and better bone breaking capability, this translates to being a better barrier blind cartridge, it will also have higher energy and depending on ammo choice can deliver that energy very well in whatever your target is. If I had two choices for bear defense, 6.8spc and .308win, I would bet my life on .308win. Not to say 6.8spc isn't great for hunting medium game, but .308 is substantially more powerful than any intermediate cartridge that fits in an AR-15 action. I don't think 6.8spc is a suitable replacement for 5.56 or .308 on thin skinned targets for Americans stocking up or training, but for hunting it absolutely has its place if keeping the platform light and fast while improving penetration depth and energy retention at longer ranges is a requirement.

Not that I recommend it for bear protection, but it's a great "bush" caliber. More effective than .223 on everything and much simpler to tote than an AR10. See plenty of 6.8 ammo in stores up here in AK, folks buy it.

Lake City All The Way !

so the "solution" is to basically adopt the 7.62x39 equivalent ... how many 7.62 wannabe cartridges will Americans create before realizing that if you want to use heavier intermediate cartridge for a rifle, there is one that existed for more than 70 years now that does exactly the same thing as 6.8 SPC or 300 AAC Blackout ...

@@Asghaad Oh, you're referring to the original, the 7.92×33mm Kurz.

@@georges.7683 considering that cartridge died ... no yes its in the +- same energy ballpark as all those cartridges, but one is currently being produced in millions, the other is unobtanium for collectors my point was that its useless to present US military with yet another 7.62x39 wannabe when it has +- same effective range as 5.56, if they wanted that cartridge they would have adopted the 7.62x39 or 300 AAC long ago (spec ops did, they are again useful for suppressed work as they both can be easily loaded subsonic) either stick with what works and troops know (5.56) or choose something that will give you enough performance upgrade to be worth losing ammo load for (hence the Spear )

I think that's more than uncharitable. More like, "when you want to outperform Grendel and .556 with shorter barrel lengths at close to medium range."

I immediately said, what's that in real measurements? And then he divided it by 16...

Check out the 22dpc. I might have Kenny twist me up a barrel

.22 grendel, you mean 220 russian or 22 ppc. The patent round of the 6.5 grendel

Those old Barretts were pigs, weighed about a lb more than most 6.8s on the market.

you know what is even more affordable ? 7.62x39 ... basically the same thing for fraction of the cost

@@Asghaad I shoot that as well. Very effective cartridge inside of 300 yards.

@@billcharlton1429 it sure is, but that isnt enough fopr US military to adopt a rifle that has +- same effective range as what they already have with disadvantage of heavier ammo load/reduced ammo load. its no surprise that they didnt adopt neither 6.8 SPR nor 300 AAC - they dont want americanized AK-47 even russians shelved themselves

Absolutely. They usually are not really 300+ yard rifles, but neither are neither most game or most threats.

if only the price would go down

I have been shooting the steel cased Wolf in my Grendel Ruger Predator. Cheap and accurate 100 grain Blammo! Ultra-Mega-MAGA

Halsford T.G. Btw, I am also in Appalachia- East Tennessee, to more exact.

Have you looked on Ammoseek? Do you reload?

I love 6 ARC but we're going through that growing period where ammo is a bit hard to get at times and it's not inexpensive. But, I do believe it has a bright future.

The problem is the stumble at rollout. Both SPC I and II were submitted with errors in the chamber drawings so alternate spec chambers had to be developed. In 15 years, it will be even more obsolete.

But 7.62x39 was replaced by 5.45 for a reason.

@@ChucksSEADnDEAD yes for weight saving, less recoil and better accuracy. But everyone wants that in between round where you have less recoil than your 7.62 caliber but more energy than your 223. 6.8 or 6.5 would be that good middle ground.

@@GammaRayTrae 6.8 is going back to the cons of 7.62 while giving up the pros of 5.56.

@@ChucksSEADnDEAD yes but it’s also going towards the pros of 7.62 and giving up cons of 5.56

@@GammaRayTrae But 7.62 has less pros... Other than putting the smack down on cinder blocks and having more mass after it punches car doors, small caliber high velocity just wins. 5.56 exists in the Goldilocks zone where you can't go any smaller or else the caliber becomes anemic, and you can't go any larger or you're throwing all the advantages away.

Same thought. And why not .300BLK for hunting and personal defense?

Yeah, it's expensive and hard to come by.

Worth it

Dang...maybe when we have surplus built up, but I'll be sticking to my 7.62x39 Zpap for now

Destroys parts as well. Issued it in Afghanistan. Half of our M4s went down during zeroing and needed new parts. I got lucky and mine was fine.

Doesn't chew up the feed lips?

6.8 wpc is literally better in every aspect against the 5.56.

Most people do. The cool thing about 6.8 is that ammo for $17-$18 a box does exist so it's not horribly expensive.

It's popular in many of the hunting states. It's what has kept the cartridge alive.