Yes pls. I feel like I want to go more offensive talents but then whenever I do I end up eventually hitting a pull I normally do with my defensive setup and getting deleted.
I’d watch a VDH vid! I main brewmaster, but I’m working on my VDH because eventually I think it’ll be an easier time in the 25+ range to get groups. I do 18-20’s on him right now and do fine, but it’s easy when the class is strong. I know I don’t 100% know what I’m doing
I think for guides, specifically talents, it’s really good to specify what level it’s for. Pugging a 15 vs pugging a 25 vs a coordinated group 25 all can use different setups
i've been trying to learn how to tank recently. you tip of going into a M0 solo and pulling a pack to practice the CD rotation is by far the best advice i have ever received. thank you for putting this guide out.
thanks. i really needed this. came back to wow after about 5 years. never did mythic+ biggest fear is also my greatest love of the rule of tank learning something together, getting bettter, knowing my rule proper. and ---communication-- this is what i fear the most. trying to communicate basic things and just getting the "get on with it, we dont care" response.
Very good video. As a healer i am envious of tanks because they are not as instantaneously blamed for everything like a healer is. Even when a tank pulls way too much or pulls piles of mobs into a boss encounter, i get blamed because i cant heal everyone through it. But on the other hand i dont have to lead or set the pace and route, so its a give and take.
Its been different in my experience. Healer is usually never at fault unless its an obvious dispel or mechanic being played wrong. Its brutally apparent when a tank has no clue whats going on tho.
@@chystassia2170 as a HPal, if I don't spread glimmer well enough, some players call me out. Why didn't you bop me on CD bro? WTF, You use Flash of Light? If you don't give me blessing of summer right now I'm going to kick your dog! How is everyone a healing expert? Some people are crazy.
Couldn't agree more. Had an EB fortified bursting where at the start the tank pulled 4 groups, we had 7 stacks of bursting when the mobs died and most of the group died. The response was "wtf healer".
What a superb guide and great philosophy on a very nuanced and misunderstood role within WOW. Thanks so much for making this guide, it’s definitely given me a fresh sense of what the ethos of a tank really is and the mindset that should be adopted whilst tanking. We should be having fun after all!
This is actually something I have recently got into. I am been a pure DPSer my entire time playing since late BC. Exactly 5 days ago I decided to level up my Demon Hunter and I'm only allowed to tank. I was soo nervous going into it because you have to as the tank have the best knowledge of the dungeon and you aren't just taking the damage you are also leading the group and most of the success of tanking I have found is carrying silences and interrupts but more importantly adapting to people. If folk get overwealmed easy then smaller pulls. if things are dying very easy then start pulling more and see where the sweet spot is. Communicating with your healing is important. Checking mana, pull sizes ect.. Also communcating what route you will be doing before you put the key in so in FALL saying at the start. "Skipping first packs to first boss then skipping dragon after 2nd boss." Lets people know what to expect and if they are prepared with invis pot. The main thing I have curtainly learnt it COMMUNICATION is LAW. Personally, I have learnt so much tanking that I can curtainly use when I DPS on other characters, overall dungeon knowledge. Also understanding the role but more importantly OTHER peoples roles from their perspective is really important. How your tanking is going to effect other people. I find as tanking you can be your own echo chamber sometimes. Dunno thats just a few things i've learnt. :)
VDH/Prot Pally here, one thing that I think is incredibly helpful that I'm surprised you didn't mention is to MAKE YOUR OWN WEAK AURAS! take the time to learn how to use WA, make your own from scratch so you get very comfortable with having your own UI. This can drastically improve your performance. Even things like alerts for cleansing yourself, full holy power or souls. Etc.
Great video, I've been DPS and nothing else, but have starting tanking some lower m+ this season here and there. It is the role I would prefer to play. Doing dungeons solo is a good shout - I will definitely start doing this. Since my guild has unfortunately become quite inactive, I have been learning by pugging mainly so far. Still get anxious each time I run a key but thinking about it, more often than not it goes fine - we just remember negative experiences more than positive ones! Anyway thanks for the advice!
This was a great guide with alot of useful information and tips and really appreciate the effort you put into this video. That being said the left/right strafing constantly and causing the screen to shake was really driving me crazy and detracting from your gameplay. I ended up minimizing the screen so I could hear your advice without having watching my the screen shake constantly.
I just queued for tank this whole day and this helped a lot actually. I was having the anxiety of playing Blood knight but queueing dps because I was scared to be blamed if I fuck up the role, but I manned up and played tank regardless. This actually really help clear my mind. Thanks.
as someone who's coming over from a different mmo where i pushed many wrs/wfs, the wow community is pretty refreshing with how forgiving they are to tanks in pugs. I'm only 30 hours in so far but have been grinding out keys and learning as i go along, wipes that happen because of me pulling too much or not knowing a boss mechanic never cause voiced frustration from teammates which I think is a good thing for anyone that has tank anxiety. Majority of pugs seem to be willing to help
Great video! As a veteran tank with zero M+ experience, this was super helpful. Still getting my feet wet by learning the ropes in DPS first, but this definitely gave me a boost to start tanking even M+
you have got a rare talent to make such vids, informative and entertaining at the same time and it feels like you are not even trying it comes naturally. Looking forward to see more tank (DH) content in the future, or anything you fancy. :) keep it up
Thanks for this vid. I’m a 3k io tank but a lot of this was humbling and helped me keep my momentum, as I often get burned out when groups aren’t jiving and keys are getting bricked
Happy to help! Remember to take a break, if you stop doing keys for 2-3 days or even a week to recoup, you won’t fall as far behind as you might think. Especially if you’re already into 3k this early.
Needing to watch others is so true! I queue tank only and I just recently boosted a char to 70 and am trying DPS. I ran AD last night and this tank had this perfect route that got exactly 100% for enemy force percentage and I will now be using the route every single time when I tank !
My dude, that part that you said “As a tank, we’re basically playing $15 a month so others can play the game” is so true. That really hit when you said that.
Good stuff! I'd love it if you could you make a video talking about group compositions. As someone who doesn't make alts much, I don't really get to learn what all the CDs of other classes that I should care about are. I'd really appreciate it (as I'm sure others would as well) if you could cover what CDs are best to track. Also, stuff such as what classes have lots of kicks vs hardly any, which classes benefit from additional mobs (like I recently heard Shamans and Pallys may like it if you spawn raptors during Rezan)... all those kinds of tricks. I guess call it, an "Advanced M+ PuG Guide". ;) Thanks again!
Came into this with negative expectations tho you really knocked it out of the park with this one. As a DPS player (3,2k) only having dabbled in tanking, I learned a lot from this, I've never seen anyone address the tank ego paradox as well as you do in this video :D A thing I would add is to make sure to have mythic dungeon tools installed and make sure that everyone has a look at it before you start the dungeon. it really cuts down on the amount of communication needed during the dung. Tho you should always be prepared to improvise
The failure/success valley leading to assholery and cluelessness is a very good topic that ive wished people would focus on more than tank anxiety. Seems to peak in mid level content when it comes to tanks. I love being a silent observer to them flaming a heroic pug raid full of people struggling with a mechanic, hitting them with the "guys this is not hard" while their perspective of the fight is pressing the taunt key once every 45 seconds and just not dying. Really enjoy your content, feels like you are consistently ahead of the curve on mindset/player psych side of improvement
Depends, cause some fights its actually frustrating with a heroic PUG, especially on fights like Smolderon when it's literally just soak, dodge tornados, dodge rings. From tank perspective though there is things I'm looking at to not get people killed by changing what I do but sometimes DPS and Heals just turn off their brain and expect a carry. But yeah, alot of times for raids it is kinda just standing there and taunting off, like the first two
thanks for the really interesting video. I only play WOTLK classic as I tried retail once in BFA and I didn't like grouping but your video was really good and I'd say its more just about tank theory as everything applied to classic tanking as well. Classic tanking obviously seems alot easier then what you are doing but I recognised all the aspects you were talking about and I'll apply what youve said, cheers
I ran into a tanking wall back in BFA where I got good enough on Prot Warrior where I felt like all I was doing was babysitting DPS as tanking was becoming less fun. I think as I get deeper into the M+ scene, I'm seeing where there are some new horizons to explore as tank, so may find myself doing it again as I have definitely become super rusty.
Spot on with so much of your advice in this! Communication is key! Own your screw ups and don’t be a dick and you’ll win with your group so much more often .
I randomly came across with this video and i really like it right now im doint 26s trying yo get into the 27 and most of the times tanks have a huge ego saying that even if they did a huge ass pull and they survvied qnd everyone else died its groups fault not his, something that i as a dps player struggle a lot is with tanks not using their utility like prot paladins having spell warding off cd all key, or in my case i as a monk pull a lot of threat even if its tanks main target and i get called stuff like bad player among others Anywsys i really liked your video
Glad you liked! I’m actually surprised a lot of people are commenting who are pushing 26+ are getting value from this. So far really happy with the impact of the video and thanks for sharing your experiences, yea that sucks, it’s super rough when the tank is being cringe :-((
I appreciate the kind words! Lots of consideration went into my writing/audio so happy its working well. You might like the vengeance video i just put up too, its 30 minutes of straight yapping xD
As a 2600 prot pally here I appreciate this video! I’m always playing tank because trying to get in a group or put a group together on my BM Hunter just takes so long. I don’t get the chance to see other routes. Even watching you pull the lashers into the last pack before first boss in EB was something I’d never thought of. They put that stacking debuff on you and slow you down, I can’t leap away to safety so pulling lots of those ends up deleting me. I could bubble the debuff off I suppose.
Yea that’s one of my fav pulls, I also do it into boss if I have any class on the group that can giga funnel. And yea the CDR they give on bubble means we use it liberally now. Hell sometimes I use it on gathering just cuz I cba 😂
@@notSachy I may give that a shot. That’s also things we have to think of as tanks. Bolstering week I don’t think pulling mobs into the boss is ideal lol I love the AoE taunt bubble provides, it’s a nice “oh shit” button when divine toll is on CD.
Bolstering doesn't apply to bosses anymore ^.^ this was changed i think s1 or s2 of dragonflight. they bolster each other but the boss doesn't get any stacks.
Very nice Video! I play WoW since 2008 and most of my time as tank. But up to this day, this tank anxiety is still there. Especially right now. I stopped playing it for a while (about 2 months) and wanting to go back into M+ tanking. I know my class and in my guild I have the reputation to be unkillable. I only get oneshotted by enrage boss mechanics. But my issue is the pathing. Where to go, what to pull. For me it seems like there is one route and if I dont follow that route, people are like "tf you doing?!". Thats my only issue with tanking. Otherwise I love to tank.
It's so funny! After watching this I started paying attention to what tanks are doing. I started my first M+ this expansion with a +7 waycrest manor. The tank literally stood in his consec, passively losing aggro and when he got smashed by the 4 elites he pulled, he waited and used lay on hands as the first spell. I think I could do better. I tried going into M0 and do big pulls but it is hard for me to judge what I am supposed to be able to survive and what not.
You should be able to live indefinitely on M0, as long as you don't have like 420 ilvl. Ofc not thru one shots, or not thru certain mobs getting their cast stacks up to like 20+ like AD wildfire, or BRH Arcane dude. But within reason, u should be able to live forever on a 0 edit: actually u cant do AD or BRH on 0 anyways so nvm haha
i play Venge dh my self and this video just blew my mind how good they can be.. Also you're 6 ilvl lower than me in this video and can't think to be like this. I will for sure try what you have said trough the video and improve on it ! Could you share the addons / WA you are using here, UI looks clean to track. -Flashers-Draenor
Vengeance is turbo fun and turbo easy, working on a guide for it tho as if i look at logs, people are using absurdly incorrect talents I need to fix that 😆
Maybe i missed it, but on the point "you NEED to watch others" is the best to watch videos who people play with pugs instead of high key group play. any pug group will no play coordinated like a group and cant handle the pulls like them. If you are are playing with 4 others, watch it together to learn where people using there cds, cc, and more.
Tanking to me always felt natural. If you're a decent tank with a little brain, it's easily the easiest role. My advice is very similar as described in the video: know your class/spec, and if you're also a DPS, learn how (good) tank pulls groups/bosses. Then, if you start tanking, even if you're overgeared for low keys, start on lower keys than you usually go for to get a feel for the packs and bosses, and slowly do higher keys if you're feeling uncertain about your tanking. That way you can climb slowly but steadily.
24 dawn fall fort week, I explicitly said “we are gonna invis to bottom of the ramp, I’m gonna pull the 2 rippers at the top of the ramp down to the other mobs and we will lust”. The hunter in the group pulls the boss, we full wipe and then goes “tank why didn’t you pull boss? I always pull boss with these mobs in every key I do and it’s a waste of time if we don’t” I love how he blamed me and says it was a waste of time not pulling boss as he bricked the key in the first 30 seconds
I find if things don't go well... as a tank players blame you as the tank. Yet if u have good addons u can see who is good and who isn't. For example, interrupt counters damage meters. Avoidable damage taken ect.
Please include with the DPS that your sole job is not DPSing but also as a team, to interrupt major casts, with either general interrupt or actual CC, and to learn which need interrupting. DPS role is literally not just DPSing, i fall behind often with DPS but generally only against ppl higher ilv by a small margin, yet i have 22 interrupts at the end just from general interrupts and who knows what CC count, whilst they have 7 or below, sometimes ppl have 12 most. and stopping your time to CC instead of DPS obviously puts you behind, but you have to sometimes interrupt a mob thats out of the cleave in order to get it into the group. Sometimes to stop major casts like the Buff the cultivator gives on EVERBLOOM. He buffs attack speed by 50% and damage by 10% AOE, and tanks dont interrupt it often since they dont know whats making it difficult. Ofcourse i learned by being a tank and having the addons to be able to check what creature does what ability. But yea, DPS job is not to just, press damage buttons.
I wouldn’t say the dps meter is the end all be all for dps performance. IMO kicks and stops from dps contributing so the healer doesn’t have to spend CDs is what I feel makes a key go smooth. Of course, all that to say, having a tank that is comfortable attempting big pulls and controlling them well is a much bigger contribution to dps than dps playing their rotation. I’ve tanked a 12 Atal’Dazar this season with all three dps at 455ish item level at 225k overall by the end because of good efficient pulls. I main fire mage and don’t typically get 200k overall in 19s with pugs because they usually only end up pulling like 5 at a time. 😢
I ruined my Neltharus key start of S4 because I forgot that the second boss DoT stacks instead of refreshes after every chain and I just speedran those. Then I was wondering why the healer can't keep people alive
It's actually quiet funny how easy it is to tank this season. I began starting two weeks ago after taking a 5+ years break for tanking and i'm already doing 25-26's without even knowing what to interrupt, cc etc. I also don't even have "proper" routes because i rather just do my own than copy someone elses. Good guide btw, it's definitely gonna help me alot!
Due to my main being WW monk and BM being the most difficult to play, I will probably never do this... But if you watch a 16 minute guide, that sends you watching hours of gameplay and streams ... You know it won't be easy.
Hi, can I know what is ur weak aura of addon for multiple adds cast bar colored in the mid of the screen ? See all cast fastly seems interesting, many thx
I play all 3 roles heavily. Mainly healer. Whenever I tank. I'm always making comments about interrupts when I realize the level of hell my healer must be experiencing. Its not about me, or someone dying. Its about knowing that guy is going 300+ APM to keep the squad alive.
the fear is commonly used as kick, or you can even use to buy you 0.2 seconds to run away or like if mobs are fixated on someone. Think of it like a stun that can last 0.2s. The fear sigil can be used to skip too, you can fear mobs, run thru them then shadowmeld similar to how a hunter can trap then feign (i'll go over this more in my upcoming VDH guide). You can even use fear sigil to stop a patrol, or just hold mobs in a location for a bit if you don't want someone to body pull (the fear won't necessarily break if someone hits it once or twice) but keep in mind it does put the mobs in combat so bolstering will still apply to them. The silence can be used as a kick, but you can also use it preemptively to of course silence mobs and prevent their casting however usually as soon as the silence drops off they will instantly start casting. Some mods that are immune to silences, like certain level 71 lieutenant type mobs, cannot be silenced however some can be 'kicked' by the silence sigil hitting, and it'll work like a normal kick. the one i use this on the most is Lady Waycrest in waycrest manor, the 2nd to last boss, you can double jump to be over the barrier and throw your silence sigil to interrupt her cast. This doesn't work for all lieutenant mobs tho, its super inconsistent by blizzard how mobs are flagged. Hope these paragraphs help, working on the vengeance guide, will go up any day now :D
@@notSachy wow thanks for the detailed response! Greatly appreciated! Learned a lot from that Subscribed now, eagerly awaiting that demon hunter guide now, I feel inspired now 😁
@notSachy thanks mate just watched it, very informative 😁 Went from being nervous only doing +2s, now up to doing 9s haha Slowly improving and getting the hang of it, a couple more weeks I'll be breezing through 20s 😁
I almost exclusively pug on my VDH and there are some things i use from your vids like Glob debuff strat from GF. I have a macro that explains key parts. Makes it super easy. “P1 pass debuff to tank. P2 (name) pass debuff to tank then take it back and pass to tank again” etc
I am going to try tanking again after Mists season1. with a VDH. Can you please share what are the mods that show your party's CCs and CDs? Is that all Omni CC?
Your playstyle looks familiar to me. I was trying to see if I've done a dudgeon with you. However it seems you are changing your char name like every several days :D
LOL yea, so it was one of Skillgap, Meleehealer, Stupidity, Plskick, Sachy, Notsachy. I’ve finally settled on naming my 2 toons every patch Sachy and Notsachy to align with me :D so shouldn’t be as annoying anymore to track lmao
Thanks for the awesome guide, 2850 rio now and trying to push to 3k. I've been struggling a lot with my UI. Trying to find a clean UI like yours but since I'm on a widescreen everything I import is overlapping. Do you have any tips or guides to install it like yours?
Honestly just get a good weakaura pack, and make sure its front and center. Nothing else really matters imo. I run a 4k 32inch display and even tho Naowh's UI is made for 1080p i had no problems scaling it to fit for me
This could be better yea, I just figured the barrier to entry of that was too high that people just wouldn’t do it, however I felt like downloading an addon that’s set and forget is easy. To be fair tho death note hasn’t crashed in months, I just have ptsd from shadowlands when it would crash like 4-6 times per day so I threw in the disclaimer
How do I get past the fact that I get LOST in every damn dungeon? I can never remember my way around no matter how many times I do it as a dps or healer. This is really the only thing that keeps me from diving into tanking atm
Download the addon Mythic Dungeon Tools - MDT. You can view a dungeon and pre-plan your routes and it's also able to be opened in combat to get you a quick glance at %, or to get your navigation in order :D The addon also has the functionality of importing/exporting routes so you can use it in conjuction with a website like keystone.guru
So i came back less than a week ago(last played was Mist). And i have seen my fair share of tanks the one that go in and just steamroll the dungeon, and the ones that do it “old school” one pull at a time, while i feel i belong to the second team, i feel the sherr toxicity of some people make it problematic and makes me want to skip
The biggest problem in tanking these days is that people are so "use" to certain things that when a new tank comes along...They trash that player and in the long run wonder why nobody wants to tank
S3 is easier than S2 as was S2 compared to S1. So the 3k rio you have now is not necessarily a result of your improvement in tanking skill. Simply blizz lowered the bar a bit which I think was right thing to do.
While I agree it’s feels much easier now, the key levels I’m doing now are not much diff than the key levels I was doing in the past. I was into the 20s in bfa and into the 23s in shadowlands - healer main tho so score was cosmetic my role wasn’t real. The main thing is I would NEVER pug before, I’d play with friends or not play at all because of a few bad pug experiences. There’s less bullshit in the dungeons now but difficulty-wise since they deleted half the affixes I don’t see a big jump this season personally when we had freehold, underrot, VP last season and those keys were free (after nerfs). Also we had neltharus legit clearing itself with chains.
@@notSachyI mainly pug and only got into m+ in df, in s1 I dont think I timed a 20, maybe one if any, in s2 I timed a few, now I timed all of them with few on 21, it feels easier, yes I gained some knowledge but I know my personal limits and I didnt improve that much since s1 but have a better results in s3 by a mile compared to the previous 2.
oh yea if we're keeping the comparison within dragonflight its MUCH easier you're absolutely correct. It must have been crazy good feeling going from playing thundering in your first season, compared to now I wish I didn't have to live through beguiling in BFA man I still have ptsd.
hey, theres a bunch of custom fonts/textures and theres no simple way to share those. I recommend just getting Naowh's UI or Atrocity's UI - both streamers, you have to prime sub to get it. I modified mine a decent bit from his to make it fit my screen but their base ui import is still very good.
is it fun to time a key with 20 deaths? my guild dh tank seems to think so. do you ever use your aoe stun? he doesnt, not in about 60 keys 18 to 22. lol i dont even think he uses his standard kick that often. if he doesnt have a sigil he's not stopping anything. he doesnt even take chains cuz he only cares about his dps. man i hate that guy. he stands in pretty much every conceivable bad thing on the floor and never dies. then he finishes the last 10% of a boss solo because the healer got bolted down by unstopped casts and thinks he's the best. it's unbearable. thanks for the vid
It’s almost entirely NaowhUI, which is a sub perk from twitch.tv/Naowh, if u have prime that’s what I use to get access to it 😄 I just moved some things around and had to adapt it to fit to 4K res
the rate at whoch you press a and d is alarming and not helpful as a tank. depending on how the plater setup of your mates in the grp is their helathbars will move around like craze making it harder to see stuff kick stuff cc stuff whatever. would recommend to stop that nonsense as a tank. additionally if your moving around you always collect your souls, so youre missing out on buffs on your bomb/slash and cant go to collect them whenever you do have a health drop and want that selfheal
Yea I a-d strafe to the music when I’m bored,. Never had a single person in dungeon complain or I’d stop. Souls don’t really matter, your tankiness comes from frailty, spikes, brand spread, meta. soul gen is super high so really it’s inconsequential just fun. If you’re running the no bomb build, you don’t even gen souls in ST unless you think you might die (you won’t die).
As Someone that has played al roles u can se often the sifference between good and bad players, and u often se dps die and Always blame the healer or the tank, when they are not themself using cooldowns and defensives and interrupts, i often se especialy dps not using anything but dps cooldowns, never use defensives and interrupts and then saying i need to pump so i cant use anything else other then dps 🤣 and Thats when keys dies, its a 5 man group but most dps belive its a 4 man group that has to do eveeything and that one dps only needs to dps, and when everyone has that mentality it often goes belly up 🤣
This is like 85% Naowh's UI. you can sub to him on twitch to get it (or pateron i think). I moved a lot of things out of the way/more to the edges cuz I play on a 32inch 4k display so I want the exact center to just have weakauras/mechanics and clear space so I can see. The only super cool thing about Naowh's UI is the weakauras, everything else you can easily copy yourself visually in a few minutes. But there are like thousands of really good weakauras that are not high resource-sucking and work very well.
I am currently struggling quite hard to just get aggro. How do you get your group wait till you actually have used a gcd out of moonfire? I also do not seem to have any big aoe damage button, so getting aggro on multiple mobs is very hard 🤔
Bear it is this season :) Got also some records. Something like this the first pull it seems even impossible to get aggro on 3 mobs. (forgot to record the real first pull) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1FhMEkpUhyA.html
ok so I have played no bear this szn, its the only tank i ignored. the highest scoring bear i found that streams is twitch.tv/haleyhr they also have vods up so you can see what they do. hope this helps!
in my opinion dps is the easiest roll, then tank is 2nd easiest and hardest is healer do to they have baby sit pp health and when comes to higher and higher keys healers job get way harder on scale then tanks & dps
Mostly just Naowh UI, you can get it from his twitch/patreon. I did alter mine a bit especially cuz the UI is for 1080p/1440p but I play on 4K, I also added a handful of QoL addons
