THE ULTIMATE RATIO OF SOIL - COMPOST/MANURE FOR STARTING A NO DIG GARDEN. A SOIL SCIENTIST BREAKDOWN 

Hahah thanks so much! That’s a huge compliment

Thanks so much! And exactly not bad just ways of refining

Thanks so much ❤️ I’m glad you’re learning and enjoying. Both very important to me.

Thanks for all your input on the community tab of the channel! Remember if you want connect on a more personal side come join me on Instagram instagram.com/gardeningincanada

So if your adding compost to soil, what exactly do you mean by soil? Do you mean peat moss, etc?

Are you a Dowding Thomas?

Thanks! I’m sure you get them sometimes too!

Very true!

@@GardeningInCanada Yup, it’s unfortunate, especially when we are just trying to help and teach others. They don’t have to like what you put out there, but have some respect, it’s common courtesy. We can’t please everyone. 😜

Thank goodness! I was waiting for the comment about the math hoping I was going to get the it’s understandable!

It’s so true

@@GardeningInCanada However as rulers of the universe we will persevere too Mars & beyond.

❤❤

Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed

That’s awesome! And yea aphids can be a sign of to much nitrogen, it’s actually because excess nitrogen can result is excess upper biomass growth. The excess is developed so quickly it makes for nice soft tissue bugs like to chew on.

@@GardeningInCanada That makes perfect sense.

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Thanks! 😊

Yea! Exactly

Glad you enjoyed!

Those are AWESOME questions! So yes I can do compost but unfortunately I’m not going to be as confident in my official answer. Mostly based on the factor you bring light too the huge variables between everyone’s home compost. (Im working on getting a value based on general consensus) Volatilization is an issue 110% and i didn’t factor it into this video or the last one because it’s a concept I’ve never ever mentioned & thought it would just come across as another layer of defiance. So with the PDF incorporated is kind of misleading in my opinion so typically the manure would be broadcasted which is a fancy word for placed on top. And then the drill would do the planting overtop, it’s rare that anyone would actually truly till the manure in. Running tillage equipment on a Farm is expensive/an extra cost that most people do not want to incure. So the drill is the equivalent too a knife being dragged along the soil at a set depth based on the plant (no more then 2inchss on average). I could do an entire video on volatilization! I will just for you!

​@@GardeningInCanada Interesting--that makes a lot of sense. I'm excited for new videos! I really appreciate the detail in your comment responses and the time you're dedicating to helping others understand! Hope you're setting aside some time for yourself too.

Haha I don’t mind it makes me happy

Haha I don’t think so 😂 he has lawyers I might be getting a cease and desist order as we speak 😉

@@GardeningInCanada thats why this world is so mixed up. The truth is covered up so often, by "big wigs"

It’s so true 😂 if I become a “big wig” I solemnly swear to never lie and only use unobscured science too give you answers. I have nothing to sell methodology or product wise so I don’t have anything to push

I’m reaching out to fellow soil nerds to figure out what the general consensus is on a home compost value wise.

1. I’m going to do a video on Microbes because it seems like most subscribers have a true interest in this. But microbes does not eat nitrates and nitrites like plants do they eat sugars. So what the microbes are feasting on is in no form bioavailable to the plant & therefore there is no direct competition. Now the excessive amount of complex sugars injected into the soil by heavy use of composts/manures will cause a huge spike in microbial activity and therefore a spike in bioavailable nutrients. The byproduct of the microbes digesting organic material is ultimately bioavailable plant food. So the demand for nitrogen isn’t higher but the amount of nitrogen will increase. With the mycelium web the ability to store isn’t what helps the plants capture more nutrients it’s actually the fungi’s ability to also decompose and breakdown 2. CEC. Yes organic material has a very high CEC equivalent too clay 250 - 400 meq/100 grams. But the issue is that manure and composts aren’t depleted of nutrients and the battery is full. So anything lost through processing is a result of simply of the battery over flowing. It isn’t until plants are added that the nutrient backlog begins coming back down. Now the flip side to that is we have a backup battery in manure/compost & that is the sugars we spoke about in number one. As those sugars are broken down into molecules we end up with the initial battery recharging. It’s estimated that cow manure for example can hold a nutrient giving value for approximately 8-10 years obviously decreasing year after year and the rate/duration is based on the environment. 3. Yea so this is a good question and honestly in the field do this correctly we would actually test the organic additions levels before deciding how much to add. So the value I used for solid beef cattle is the industry standard based on testing. So to get a true and accurate (less theoretical) value you would need to test the addition because the available nitrogen in the first year will fluctuate based on plant biomass, how long it’s been composted, type of composting, what was added, etc. 4. So another good question here and again probably deserves it’s own video. But as I mentioned you would typically test your soil prior to even doing this calculation and use it in the net requirements factor. Now within a landscape the nitrogen levels will fluctuate, bottom of a hill will have more then a hill top for example. What’s of interesting to a gardener is what nitrogen is found within the root range particularly above the bulk of the root biomass. This is mostly due to a known concepts such as leaching and volatilization. Now with the CD no dig method I’d ignore a large portion of the parent material makeup especially in that first year. The reason being your actually creating a separate soil system due to the cardboard divide. This hard stop actually causes the perched water table effect I spoke about in my rocks video. However because the connected soil volume is so much smaller, we are growing actively growing vegetables and our evapotranspiration Rates are relatively high due to wind exposure, no pot side protection; I’m not as concerned about this as I am with potted plants. Now in the years (or months) again based on your decomposition rates in your area when the cardboard has decomposed the soil may or may not factor into the over properties of the no dig plot. So in a sandy soil it’s going to aggregate the soil and bring some huge benefits to the physics of the soil. If we are looking for the ultimate spot for a no dig garden is respects to remediating old soil it’s hands down sandy soil I would expect to find the greatest results. Now for a clay soil it’s also hugely beneficial because it’s going to allow a person to start a garden without the $$$ of remediating a clay soil. However, with the clay soil (depending on what % of clay we have based on the textural triangle) we may establish a low key hard pan in the initial setup with the cardboard/ lack of incorporating the top layer. This could in theory result in two separate systems for some people. The best way to ensure this doesn’t happen would be planting vegetables/plants with taproots in hopes of opening some channels to the clay soil beneath. Anyone in Regina area of Saskatchewan has soil I could see this happening with, it contains the amount of clay that cracks when dry and sticks like glue when wet. 5. And this answer is going to really confuse you because it frustrates me 😂😂😂 but no. While in theory it should factor into the “prescription” in practice it’s completely impractical. The reason for that is because there isn’t a soil scientist who works/help gardeners achieve high yields and soil management on a backyard garden scale. All these management techniques are based on large scale agricultural fields and therefore huge variability in these factors over an entire section.

@@GardeningInCanada Great! thanks for taking the time to respond. I actually did know microbes consumed sugars and not nitrates but for some reason it slipped my mind when I was typing my original comment lol. It's interesting finding all this out and I look forward to your other videos. Have you ever listened to Diego Footers podcast @Insearchofsoil ? He invites soil scientists and other experts on to talk about soil. It's super interesting. Also its interesting seeing what soil scientists say because like you said, research and funding is usually focused on an industrial agricultural scale and not on the scale of individual gardeners so I wonder how advise would change. For example, I doubt that any amount of added nutrients to my garden would make much of an environmental impact since its on such a small scale. Obviously best practices should still be observed but I feel like a lot of the fears would be significantly reduced for small beds surrounded by grass lawns

No I haven’t I’ll have to find that podcast! & I agree about the environmental impact/stewardship. I mean on a technicality you could take the number of homes in a country and say everyone has one garden 10 x 4 feet and get an idea of how much acreage that is. But other then that I’ve never heard of someone testing backyard garden runoff to see if it’s excessive

Miss ella :)

Thanks for the visit

That’s awesome! Loveeee a fellow nerd 🤓 and loyal subscriber I might add ❤️

@@GardeningInCanada you post interesting and informative videos, i watch and learn 🤓💚

Awesome!

Here's a puzzle, when soaking soil in water to measure its material content, the larger particles fall out first, but does that imply greater density or is it related to surface tension?

Surface tension mostly I want to say. Mostly because organic material can by hydrophobic at times despite the density and therefore floats. Once it’s “water logged” then it sinks.

​@@GardeningInCanadalike the miracle grow with the just so you don't screw it up overwatering value. Lol

Oh that’s really interesting

Thanks so much!

Ahaha 🤣 love it

Haha ugh I need to do a video on wood chips it’s honestly a double edged sword and the decision to use it is completely based on what you’re trying to achieve. I’ll do a video on this for next week!

@@GardeningInCanada thank you very much I would greatly appreciate it! I mostly put it up until half of a 2 foot bed and was hoping to attract microorganisms to eventually culminate the soil. Also added leaves at the bottom but lots of peat on top. Somewhat rotorilled to mix. I knew I was jumping in blind but just kinda rolled with it and hoping for the best! Terrible garden practice I know 🙈

I would grab a liquid drop to see where stuff is at. I would not be shocked if your nitrogen is to low.

I don’t see any issues with what your doing. if anything your soil system as a whole in your yard is probably doing really well.

@@GardeningInCanada Thank you Ashley.

Glad you’re enjoying let me know if you need anything in particular

@@GardeningInCanada I watched your video about lawn aeration products. I have a dilemma. After extending our home the contractors spread a lot of the excavation sand and parked heavy equipment on it for weeks on end. Used to have gorgeous soil and lawn. Now it’s compacted sand. Bringing in new topsoil is out of the question. Tried core aeration and liquid products. No success. Your thoughts? Thanks

So you’re looking at 16 square feet which means you need 9.6 bags of manure and the rest would be soil. You could just do 10 or 9 bags that’s not going to make for a huge difference.

So all you’ll do to Calculate this is take your cubic footage (length x width x height) Then we know we need approximately 5lbs of “soil” to fill a cubic foot. Therefore we can take 5 lbs x 16 cubic feet to five us a total of 80 lbs for all 16 cubic feet. We know 3/5 the of the 80 lbs will be manure. So that’s 60% total volume. So we can take 80 x 0.60 which gives us 48 lbs. This is the total volume of manure needed out of the 80 lbs needed to fill the bed. We then for connivence sake can take the 48 lbs and divide it by the total pounds in a black cow manure bag (5lbs). This gives us 9.6 bags total needed for your plot. The remainder being soil. So you can simply take the total 80 lbs and minus 48 lbs (your manure value) to give you 32 lbs soil. For the soil a loam is the ideal.

@@GardeningInCanada thank you very much for taking your time to answer my question. I will keep this in mind if i start a new bed.

Awesome!

That is awesome. And yea absolutely can do a video on that. When you use the compost as a mulch how long do you typically let it sit for? A year cycle, 6 months, 2 years?

I can look into that, it’s going to be a lot different because it’s obviously not as degraded. And I still consider it an over application. An excess of 2lbs per square foot compounded over even say a 4x4 bed is an over application of 32 lbs of manure. And a lot of nitrate and nitrite run off. A common misconception is that microbes in the soil food web eat nutrients and that’s not the case they eat sugars which aren’t bio available to the plant & turn them into nutrients.

@@GardeningInCanada so my 50x50 garden can handle 5000# of manure? Yes that is my conception of how it works. All the talk is feed the microbes nutrients and they will uptake and feed the plants in exchange for exudes back from the plants. This whole soil food web is new to me and is amazing. Noing nothing in about it works and hearing so many ideas, I have been seeking out scientists of soil and plants to make some sense of it all.

If you’re wondering about yearly additions and not then initial start up it would in cubic inches not cubic feet. So it’s going to be a lot less then that. I’d have to sit down and write it all out for you (I’m not home at the moment) but theoretically ( off the top of my head) with a 2 inch yearly addition in a 50 x 50 plot you’d be applying 2,083 lbs based on a CD No Dig system. With my suggestion you’d be using 625 lbs yearly. Now that’s all theoretical and without an initial soil test or knowing your planting density. It may need to be higher or lower.

For the microbes and nutrient. I’m going to have to do a video on this. I’m not sure which influencer is saying feed microbes nutrients and you’ll gain more microbes which will in turn cause better plants. There is a massive disconnect there isn’t not that simple. And you’re not the only one to explain the soil food web to me like this.

It should be fine. Just make sure you do a bioassays test ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-27qANzHkaf8.html

Use the concept just mix in soil 🤓

I’m not sure what crops he’s planting to get 3-4 crops on but I would assume they are low resource plants like lettuce or radish. That only gives him four months to produce something. Unless he’s starting seeds indoors but even then he’s not in a tropical climate so it not going to be peppers and tomatoes three times.

@@GardeningInCanada he starts the plants on seed cells first. He plants lots of brassicas, tomatoes, peas, eggplants, carrots, beets and potatoes iirc

Yea, regardless though you want to apply then amount the crop needs at the time. one heavy application in the spring is just going to result in high levels of leaching for the first six months and adequate nutrients need the last. Nutrients doesn’t sit and wait for the plants it’s very mobile

@@GardeningInCanada I found one video where he compiled one year of succession planting in one bed: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iGL1Lh1cusw.html I live in the tropics so I'm not really familiar with how most of the plants in the vid take up nutrients. So I guess the safer route would be to have the mixed soil and compost added on the bed only after planting a heavy feeder, to make sure that excess nutrients wouldn't be wasted on run off? I have to figure out how to properly apply this in my situation where we get plenty of rain all year round except on summer XD

@@GardeningInCanada Just want to say thanks! I got into a rabbit hole of reading about bio availability in compost and how it leaches off over time. Sometimes I feel like I picked the wrong course back in uni, soil science, ecology etc is so damn interesting

HAHA perfect! I like friends 😏 in Canada by chance?

@@GardeningInCanada nope... im in phoenix arizona these days...

Oh my I’m jealous of your hiking trails and such

Yea which seems theoretically sound. I mean it’s going to depend on the existing soils values in combination with the compost values. And like I always stress pH, watching to acidity is important

@@GardeningInCanada Well I've always been on the less is more band wagon so I don't need much convincing. The compost and cow manure I plan to add to my raised bed/hugelkultur hybrid is from last year and is well aged and I also planned to extend it by mixing in cheap top soil, so I think I'm going in the right direction. I'll have to look into the pH though.

I watched the same video but he may have encountered that herbicide that farmers use to clear grazing-land, he didn’t specifically say it was “clean” compost nor say all were watered the same ...

@@tobruz No doubt there are a myriad of variables to control, but one would assume he did use the same compost in 4 plots. He did say the compost was hydrophobic and needed more watering but was that the cause of impeded yield or crop failure?? At the end of the day the non compost plot did the best, whether that was from the soil biology or not being in an over nutrient environment, we don't know for sure.

Yea compost can be hydrophobic that’s very true. There are surfactants you can get to help with the issue. But there can be entire dead spots moisture wise if you don’t apply the compost properly.

I like it! It’s a bit on the pricey side but you’re introducing a lot of good stuff. Garden Soil is typically low in fungi so adding the compost which is likely to have spores is important

@@GardeningInCanada it’s free down here, they can’t get rid of it fast enough. In one of my videos I show a quick shot of the pile at the mushroom farm, it’s about 20 feet tall and 200 feet by 400feet of compost. The mushroom farm grows so many different types. I assumed it was good stuff. Last year 7 zucchini’s grow 1140lbs of zucchini. But I talked to a small mushroom grower who told me farmed mushrooms don’t have immune system‘s and that I’m not likely to see those mushrooms growing in my rows. So that made me question if it’s really diverse or just really broken down organic matter.

No there are most likely fungi in the mix, now if it’s heated compost then maybe not. The thing is that fungi are one of the first microbes to start the breakdown process of OM for bacteria. Without compost that’s already at that state you have more work on your hands. The other nice thing is that it won’t leach like a composted manure

@@GardeningInCanada that’s interesting I always thought bacteria was first in the break down and then fungi showed up. Either way they have a symbiotic relationship. When we do go and get it the piles are so hot, I will move the top layer and it’s crazy steam clouds. My favorite thing to do is get fresh hot mushroom compost mix in 2/5 (finished) horse manure, cook it tell for two weeks, turning it constantly, the whole time it stays around 160F (71C?). Then add in 50/50 fresh wood chips from a tree arborist. Then I’ll leave it to sit and become fungal dominant for a few months. I would like to think it really helps when ever I plant a new tree, and mix it into the soil around n on top of the root ball, but who knows!

The cooking is important it gets rid of weeds and disease

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How degraded would you define the mixture as when you add it? Is it relatively fine?

@@GardeningInCanada yes all undecompsed and large items removed then screened through a 1/2” screen, so 1/2” or less in size ... if I add garden waste it’s cut up first, no mildew ect or weed seeds

Okay! I’ll see what I can turn up values wise. I’d assume that the first year would be low in available nutrients but every year after that it would obviously compound. I think the biggest “concern” which isn’t really a huge concern is with a deep mulch is that is you may not have much in the way of photosensitive & anaerobic microbes until you get farther into the profile of the soil. Now is this an issue or a detriment to your garden? Most like not. How long have you ran this system? Do you leave your mulch after the season is done or do you remove it?

Three full years running this on top of 2 6x6 - 30 year old raised beds that were dug yearly and begun with much double digging. I also have a strip 1x40 along a fence line to vertically grow that I am starting to convert as material is available. I will have more compost next year as I have two large piles over winter making and more shredded leafs in waiting. No dig bed prep in the fall of possibly 2” over the season and end and level the compost/ mulch. Then cover beds with fab landscape cloth (water perm and protection from diggers) I cover the beds in mid April with clear tarps to thaw and then remove the fabric but keep covered plant transplants later and cover with fleece till mid May tomato time. I have had no noticeable issues other than normal rodents mostly voles and mice. My compost is usually dark and finished but even if it wasn’t completely finished it would be considered a mulch as it’s on top I also plant deep through it. I know you advocate digging/ mixing in organic but since I have virtually zero weeds I can’t and won’t turn back now it’s a joy gardening to be weed free!

That’s pretty awesome! I don’t advocate for it I just think people should keep options open if they have something heavier then a loamy soil.

Hahaha I love this comment I agree with all of it very well put.

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Both as far as I know. USA is particularly watchful around the Great Lakes. You need to add nitrogen stabilizers even

@@GardeningInCanada I wonder why they do that ? If I plant in 100% compost than the worms can continue to produce the fertlizer as the plant grows

compost it first

Ahah that’s maybe the case!

Here already?!?

@@GardeningInCanada watching it's done well:)

@@GardeningInCanada thank you :) very much enjoying the video

Thanks! Hope you enjoy it

@@GardeningInCanada yes it was done very well I know all too well if you use too much poop even rabbit manure that it starts rotting and can possibly do damage to your plants with pest or disease And too much your plants won't use it all up if you put too much on We have clover with thoes nitrogen fixing nodes in some gardens and i don't have to use as much additives Great way to explain all of this!

The solubility of nutrients in excess is still run off and an over application regardless organic or inorganic status. Ask any producer in the world if they have restrictions on how much organic fertilizer the can apply. You are simplifying a very complex system the only by product being carbon dioxide is not even close to factual.

@@GardeningInCanada Charles doesn’t put a foot of manure on like you say, anyone who did would start building a hell of a mound over time. I think you should’ve spoken to Charles before you started getting the wrong end of the stick.

I’m relatively certain when I’m running the numbers in this video I am using 2 inches. Not a foot.

Yea I agree 100% I’m down form discussion and debate but the name calling and slander is a bit overboard. People enjoy discrediting people through essentially calling them wasted skin now. Our world and gardening will never improve without dialogue and different perspective.

@@GardeningInCanada I subscribe to ten different Garden channels and so well-known but I do not take one method I guess I'll soon formation in science behind and apply it to my method of works from square foot method Hugo culture.. even the science behind feeding. Organisms beneficial microbes an it's all the same gardening technique but it breaks it down two different units beneficial. 1Channel even showed me how you get elephant garlic sèeds from the roots

That’s awesome those are huge plants