Link To Drawings: drive.google.com/file/d/1Dy7A... A power lift and guide for the head of a round column mill. This fix will maintain horizontal alignment.
FWIW, when I had a Grizzly, I mounted a laser pointed on the headstock pointing to the opposite wall. I then made a plumb vertical line. The laser pointer was set on the plumb line at the start of every job. If I needed to move the head up or down to suit tool needs it was super easy to get back to zero
Brilliant solutions to everyday problems without the need for many thousands of dollars worth of machinery. Thank you for your common sense workshop ideas made with machines that many home work shops already own.
It always surprises me that people dislike any video really. Honestly, 99.9% of the people that comment on my videos are fantastic - Thank you very much.
Good approach to a problem, glad to see everything worked out without any major setbacks. Not only did you get repeatability you now have a power feed. Good job!
Excellent design Wink, I have been toying with the idea of a rod or bar and DTI to regain position when moving on the column. I have also been toying with a counterbalance to make cranking easier. You have addressed both ideas and executed the result with great success, I am looking forward to the plans when you draw them up. Good looking haircut and excellent finished project, cheers and thanks. PS, That wood based coordinate table for the press sure is working out well for you!
Thanks you sir - The link to the plans are now posted. Yeah... love the drill press table! I assume you mean the X Y table. The drill press is way easier to use than the drill mill and almost as accurate.
Your welcome. I love the power lift but check this out. www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/rf-30-clone-head-alignment-guide.84270/?fbclid=IwAR1IwD-s0KsZkKLHibNvD8dTI29B4nLtVADGwlp-uJfb0M9_v3zpz_JEY2s
hello Mark,nice job on the mill,enjoyed the video, thanks for sharing with us.i did something simular to mine what i did was drill and tapped the rack and tube and made a gib to fill the very tiny space in between the clamp and tube. it works just fine.see you next time. stay safe. my friend.
I tried do that and my rack flexed a lot! I had mine attached at the top and bottom and it didn't work at all. How many places did you attach it to the column?
Very nice design. It's always interesting to see a moderately complex mechanical project undertaken and completed. Now you have a tool to keep your column in line and a power Z-feed.
I will start with the seasons best to you and yours this holiday season my friend. Any time I see that little mill/drill I want one for myself. It has served you well as far as I can see and any tinkering you have had to do on it has been fairly minor. Yup on the 1/2 link or a plastic (UHMW ?) lined tensioner that wraps around a section of pipe just long enough for the chain to get the "climb" out of the chain. I used to adapt chains like this to multiple rollers in cedar sawmills that the bark would climb up on the sprockets so much it would break chains or bearing housings. Nasty problem easily fixed eh. It is always a nice visit to come and share what you have for us my friend. Good old no nonsense free problem or a go to machining for a cause. I just plain enjoy your posts my friend. Love that textured spray can paint my friend. It covers more bo-bo's than flat black and a grinder eh, LOL. eh, LOL. What a great addon to this for that piece of equip bud. There is always something to do to max the usability's to serve us. One machine to better the other. Not quite sure will be the end result of that remark will take us eh. Good seasons wishes to you and yours Winky. Onward eh ! Of course if you are bored you can wire in a couple proximity sensors that will take care of travels but yer a pretty sharp fella as it is eh, LOL.
I've watched a lot of machinist videos and for my money this is one of the most useful mods on this mill/drill as I've seen anywhere. The video work is also great. If I attempt to do this I'll try using 1" square stock instead of the roundstock to hold the head in index with the column I wouldn't be surprised but what your round stock is minutely flexing. Thanks for the project.
Thank you sir! I agree, the bar could flex a little. I would have used 1" rather than 3/4" but the bore in my lathe is 7/8". I like round for one reason. The contact area is very small on the Delrin blocks. This allows for firm contact without much friction. Square would work well but setting the slide blocks might be touchy.
@@WinkysWorkshop I agree with the contact area being smaller on round stock. Rather then Delren I'll use some small bearing I have and pre-load them a tad. After that, it will be good enough for my backyard shop!! Thanks again for the great video....
I am thinking about using something similar on my mill also. I was thinking about using a linear rail and bearing attached to top and bottom brackets and then making an adapter to attach to the crank on the rack, that will attach to a lovejoy coupling and AC stepper motor to move head up and down. I'm thinking the linear rail and bearing would provide more free range of motion while keeping the mill head from moving side to side? Whats your thoughts on this?
11:39 I plan to do something like this. I have a JET mill but the castings look identical to your RF30. Thanks for providing the materials list and drawings!
Thanks for your feedback. I do agree with you and did not intended to criticize your well, neatly and professional presented modification. And rightly so mankind has manufactured and created wonderful projects that are still standing and still operation today with lesser machines. No doubt what you have made will perform better and it is more than others may have attempted. It is clear to see that you have significant skills. So again sharing this and hopefully I can see a further video from you in the future. By the way I like your clean workshop.
No worries, I didn't feel criticized, I basically agree with you. Thanks on the work shop. Aside from feeling a little crowded I love working in the shop. I've done woodworking all my life and always had some basic metal working tool but always had an interest in machine work. About 15 years ago I went from a job running a web offset printing press to being a troubleshooter/problem solver for the presses. That turned into learning some cad and designing a lot of machine improvements. After getting frustrated with the time it took to get our under manned machine shop to make parts for me I started accumulating my own machines. Now I'm retired... Now if I can imagine something I can usually build it... within reason of course. I remember telling my wife I was going to build a buckboard flyer. She said, are you a kid or what? I said, yeah, but now I have the tools time and to some degree the money make cool toys! If you haven't seen it you might like it. Check it out. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-lPDv_33CV4o.html
@@WinkysWorkshop Thanks for the kind reply, yes my wife thinks I am a kid as well and I do feel like a kid in the sweetshop when I am in my workshop. I am always happy to see the talent in our generation, and many young person could learn a lot by simply switching from gaming to the youtube channel like yours. I will check out the link you sent me. Kind Regards.
Ingenious solution, well executed! Adding a couple of micro switches would limit the upper and lower travel. Accuracy refers to a standard, precision refers to repeatability.
Nice video and takes me back to my toolmaker days. The only thing I'd change would be to make the clamps a little sturdier side to side by triangulating the weld bases + increasing the vertical bar diameter and changing to a linear bushing instead of the delrin pad setup. The linear bushing could be mounted in a block with slotted adjustment in/out to tweak the alignment. It might help with repeatability.
I was going to go with the larger bar but my lathe bore is only 7/8" (to drill the ends). As for the delrin brackets. More rigid would probably be good but I think the pads work better. The amount of surface area is small so they can be tight against the bar without a lot of friction. There is some flexing but zero slop. The movement on the indicator is due to the the column clamp being loose while you move the head. Thanks!
Hi thanks for you channel and your great ways of coming up with simple solutions to problems. You have inspired me to use this ( guide bar ) idea on my drill press as it has a round column and loses alignment when you lower or raise the table . thanks again
You're welcome. The guide bar works better than expected on my mill and I love it! I also made a square column for my drill press that is amazing. It also have a harbor freight drill powered lift. Honestly... the guide bar might actually be the best approach. It's easier and less prone to error. I welded a round section to the top of my 4 x 4 column and got it perfectly aligned but if I had failed to get it straight and been of a fraction of a degree it would be a problem. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-i4_FtMMMfDw.html
Perfect timing. With the cooler weather, I will be working on upgrades for my "Precision" 3.0 mill. DRO and x power feed are almost done and the column issue was next on the list.
Cool... I'll have a link to the drawings and parts list posted in the next few days. I'm not sure it will be the same but at least it's a starting point.
excellent video and design. I have the same mill (circa 1998 made in Taiwan) and have been looking at different solutions, and i think yours is best. I dont have welding setup, but should be able to do in aluminum and socket head cap screws. BTW, love your "pre-OSHA" shop!
Pre-OSHA? Funny. I have a lot of open belts and gears. If I had a employee I would probably look at things a little different. Adding the guide bar and lift on my mill was a lot of work but very worthwhile!
This is a very clever solution, and with this knowledge I am a lot more likely to purchase a round-column mill should I happen on the right opportunity. Thanks for sharing!
@@rolandjollivet38 I get that. Right now I can't justify the expense of a decent mill, but if I could find one that wasn't worn out for a few hundred $$, I'd buy it.
Gday, this it a brilliant fix to a frustrating problem, I’ve lost count at the amount of times I’ve screwed up and had to realign everything, pain in the ass, take care. Cheers Matty
Nice idea! I have had my head stuck on using threaded rod and a half nut... That chain drive idea is more simple and just as effective! Thus far i have been using the laser level approach.
I used to have the same milling machine as you. I had a £5 laser of the head of the machine and fired it across the garage onto the wall. I just had a vertical line drawn on the wall and put the laser dot back on the line if I had to raise or lower the head. Do to the length of the laser line any error is magnified so its easy to correct. Its an easy fix for the round column. Chris
Thanks for sharing!!! Great project. You could loosen one and tight the other nuts on your u- bolts to walk your clamps around but your very close anyway.
I use a mag-base laser level on the head, and pointed at a tiny silver spot on the far wall, to keep the head aligned when raising or lowering. I can keep it within a few arc minutes fairly easily.
mount a mirror (ideally surface silvered) on the far wall then you increase the accuracy even more and don't have to turn round to check. Random unrelated fact, years ago as a kid I visited a place that turned train wheel rims and they projected a shadow of the wheel rim onto the factory wall and there were marks on the wall to act as a gauge.
that laser sounds like a great idea and maybe use in conjunction with the vertical bar as a check. My problem is that I have my Mill on casters. But maybe two lasers, one on column and one on the head and just need to keep them pointed so that they are aimed so that they maintain a consistent distance apart?
@@alanddeb2 - I doubt they will ever wear. I used to work for a printing company and we had gears made is Delrin meshing with steel. I've see the delrin break but the metal gears wore out long before the Delrin.
Boy, you have spent a lot of time and money on that modification. Great job my friend. I just use a dial indicator with a magnetic base and It is dead nuts accurate every time. I think since round column mills have been around for 40+ years, the manufactures always had in mind a simple dial indicator for alignment was much cheaper and they did not have an inherent problem that a lot of people keep pushing with alignment of the head. Should not be an issue at all. Keep up the good work!
Time yes but I think it was less than $80 bucks with some surplus steel. It's mostly about speed and convenience. I love it. This may seem ridiculous but I'm thinking about a cam lock for lock down bolts for the head.
Good try to make an inferior machine perform as it should. Tried this with similar unsuitable equipment, however learned to put my effort in to buying well engineered machinery. If you are lucky to have this equipment best use it for basic machining. Thanks for this video it is a good lesson to help others.
Of course a full size mill would be great and if machine work was much more than a hobby I'd sell this mill and get a good one. With that being said, this mill does fairly good with a lot less cost. Your advise would be good if I was 20 or 30 years old. I'm retired... it's a hobby. Of course if I see a good deal on a small mill I may get.
It's very nice. I'm a little worried about the gears though. I move the head a lot more than I used to not that it has a motor drive. Now I need a push button lock down the head.
I like how you modified the table to power drive. About the travel, perhaps fit off switches at the top of max travel and at the bottom of max travel. The switches will stop the drive motor and so stop the quill. Thanks for sharing.
I like the drive idea and the concept of the alignment rig. I think the vertical rod needs to be larger, high precision ground rod, and the brackets a bit more rigid. Great idea.
I would have made the bar larger but my lathe bore is only 7/8". I think everything is more that strong enough to keep things in alignment BUT it would be nice if the clamps were near impossible to move and used a 1.75" bar. That way I could leave the head clamp slightly loose without fear of head movement. It would be great to eliminate the need to clamp and un-clamp the head.
@@WinkysWorkshop It would indeed,but even one of the poly-vee belts used to drive vehicle ancillaries or washing machines would work well I think. Certainly plenty of grip from a 1/2" or 5/8" wide pooy-vee.
I made something similar, but bolted a bracket to the cast base and into the top of the column (needed the extra height). The follower is opposed ball races. Since I put a VFD driven 3ph motor on it, I do not need to get into the top cover any more, so I used the spare space to take the power supply to my Z axis drive (DC) motor.
Thank you very much! That little Harbor freight drill was $28 bucks. It runs 1500 RPM and there $18 drill runs 3000 RPM. Same amps and power but the slower speed was perfect. Plans are now posted although I don't think you need them if i remember right
FWIW... I tack welded the gear track on mine. It still wiggles a bit but not a crazy amount. I still need to improve on it so this video helps with ideas. Thanks
Yeah... I clamped mine firmly and was shock at how much the rack flexed. Pinning the rack between the teeth worried be but welding might work well if there is enough clearance.
Nice upgrade.. I solved the problem a different way... I started watching Craigslist... I found a Bridgeport with powered feed on three axis & a DRO it was listed cheap... I was the first respondent & got it for $1000.... Then I sold my RF mill on Craigslist for $750... Not quite as creative but I love the results....
Yep, you did good. I'd got deal like that in the past but larger mills always seem to have a negative... way too big, 3 ph, need a ton of work, 1000 miles away etc. I did get my South Bend 11 for $100 but put a lot of hours into restoring it. Nice lathe and worth the effort however.
@@WinkysWorkshop It is 3 ph but I already have a VFD & I did wind up driving 700 miles round trip.... So yeah it had extra challenges... But I'm happy with the result... LOL
I just got one of these mills and like the idea but i think i'm going to go with simpler by making locking brackets like you have to just lock in the gear bar...it will act like your outer guide rod. maybe some minor error but i'm not too concerned .. great idea none the less, and power feed sure is nice
Yeah this was a fairly involved project. If you use your rack you will get a lot of flex in the rack. At minimum you need two bolts at the bottom and top to hold the rack to the column. You may also need to drill and pin the rack in the middle as well. One reason I went with power was to reduce the influence of the crank and improve the accuracy.
Good approach. I own practically the same machine sold by Harbor Freight except mine is a rarity in that it has a gearbox on the right side of the head that powers the quill. I am a mechanical designer by profession and already have designed a similar approach but have yet to make it happen. I plan on installing the guide bar on the right side. On the left side I plan to install a reversible electric motor also but will have the control switch on the right side near the pinch bolts that tighten the head to the column. I hate having to loosen the bolts then go around the other side to crank the head up or down then go back to the pinch bolts to tighten them. This wastes a lot of time. For the motor, I will integrate a clutch that will slip if I bottom out top or bottom.
With the motor lift its not too bad going to the other side but I like your idea. The slip clutch is also great. I've been thinking about a power head lock. like some kind of cam lock operated with an air cylinder on the lock down nuts. It sounds lazy but I still avoid moving the head sometimes and move the table instead.
Yet another clever solution to a daily pain. I have a 8" spacer under the ram of my Bridgeport, and I am continuously running the knee up and down with the manual crank. Too bad I couldn't incorporate this to my mill .
Make a drill motor adapter for the knee... Fun simple project : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--4t8g8AensE.html (I certainly hope that Mr. Winky doesn't mind me throwing a bone to Tublecain!) I made these to make my X & Y handles on my round column mill "Power feed". With a slow drill, it made big improvement to final finish passes!
It may just be me, but I hate square corners, even with a small radius on them. I would definitely make that lower right hand corner really rounded off or contoured around the spring housing. Can't wait till you put up the links to plans and materials so I can try to build one for my RF-31.
Just posted the plans. Hopefully they are good enough for most to use. The biggest concern is differences in mills. Rong Fu made several variations over the years. You are right about the corners! Thanks
You may be getting some flex from the crank handle travel bar attached to the milling machine's pipe. The bar with the notches in it. Just tack weld it in strategic locations and if you ever want to get rid of it or sell it you can just grind off the tack welds. Those bars are only stuck in at the top and bottom collars giving some horizontal or lateral movement.
I've thought of doing this to mine. I figure if i work out the minimum and maximum heights i'm likely to need i can weld the remaining of the rack bar top and bottom to the pipe.
It will flex (a lot). For this to work well the rack needs to be attached to the column about every 3 inches. .001" rack movement translates to .006" or .008" at the spindle.
Great design! I see another design is screwed down the racks on top and bottom to keep column in line. That might fix the issue there and then add the power feed as you did.
I tried doing that. The two problem I had was that the rack flexes. It would have to be pinned every 3 inches to stop the flexing and you would have to pin it through the teeth. Second the amount of slop in the channel the rack is in is huge. I could not figure out how to eliminate this slop.
The goal of keeping zero alignment is a good one. Seems like a simple dial indicator and brackets on the column and mill head would suffice. Zero like a vice tightening and tapping with dead blow.
Suffice maybe... but what a pain. I used to do that all the time. Occasionally I would get lucky but locking the head moves everything. With the guide bar it is very consistent, usually less than .002". Admittedly, working in a factory setting most my life probably ruined me. The extra minute or two it took me to align the head bothered me a lot
Hi Winki, you might could put a adjustable Clamp across the two angles holding the Deleon. That way you could tighten the Delrin against the Bar a little tighter.
Excellent!!! I've got one of these mills (mine is a Rong-Fu RF-30) and the biggest 2 problems are the limited Z travel without moving the head, and the head pivoting when trying to take a heavy cut, but this idea could potentially solve both! I am thinking I may duplicate this, but with a ball bearing linear guide rail, a cheap 100:1 gear drive motor, and limit switches top and bottom... I too have been somewhat confused with the metric diameter screws using standard thread pitch... in standard size tapped holes...
Mine is also an RF30 sold by Enco. First, you don't really need a bearing but if you use one be sure you use one that is adjustable, otherwise you will have movement. Second, good luck finding a cheap gear motor. You might find one but it will be low voltage. If you find a cheap 120V gear motor please let me know. In hindsight I wish I had used a larger diameter guide bar but the one I used was the largest I could drill in my lathe. I've had problems with my head slipping while milling too but I still lock the head firmly. I worry about the clamps slipping or the bar flexing. If you make it stout enough you might get by with just leaving the head snug. It would be nice to not have to lock and unlock the head when you make a move. I do this while drilling but not milling.
@@WinkysWorkshop yeah after I commented I finished watching and saw that you were only getting about .001” over approximately 5” of travel, that seems quite excellent with just cold rolled round stock as your shaft and delrin ‘bearing’! Maybe I will just duplicate your design straight across. I’ve found quite a few options for 120v worm drive motors, as usual, they’re straight from China, but will go well on a Chinese mini mill.
@@gallupcustomknives2293 - Aside from the time it takes I don't have a problem buying from China. You could pay a higher price in the US but you might be buying the same gear motor. The derin is just two flat pads. I clamped them to the shaft and then tightened the lock downs. The surface area is so small you can run them tight without too much friction. The .001" was over about a 5 inch travel but that is still good if you ask me.
Excellent again! May give it a go on my round column mill... On another subject, do you have any video with info re the coolant system for your Mill? I need to add one to my Mill. Is it cooling as well as lubrication that is required during milling?
The coolant I use is called Koolmist. It's about $40 per gallon but you dilute is a bunch, I think 15:1. There are many options for sprayers but get one with both air and coolant valves, some just control the air.
I've made a lot of my machines with power drives and found that wind screen wiper motors do a very good job, they are an angled drive and geared, also cheap
Hot tip (I think), I used #25 chain, the sprockets are smaller for the same number of teeth. It's nowhere near straining the chain or sprocket, the forces involved are low. I went with a 1:6 gear ratio, 12 tooth small and 72 tooth large sprocket. I could have used a larger input (small) sprocket to make the head move faster, but I'm happy with the speed. I just set the small sprocket the right distance away to tighten the chain, so I didn't need an idler sprocket to take up the slack.
Very nice job as usual, with your various mods to your machines. Good Ideas to do similar on my RF30 Round Column Mill. What gear ratio's did you use, & what are the gears off . Keep up the good work. Thanks
Lock the rack to the column with countersunk bolts. Have a *third* collar ride on the plate along the column. Make the notch square, but round off its corners so that they don't dig into the rack's metal surface.
That would work but the rack would have to be bolted fairly often. Also the amount of metal at full depth of the teeth is not really adequate to counter bore. I considered pinning the rack but was a little worried I would not get it straight.
THANK YOU, I too bought a similar mill drill Mine is a Tiawan built central machine. Now im frying to see what taper or collets the machine uses. Any advise sought Thanks
Think I might have put some half moon shapes in the delrin, or 1/4 moon might be a better description. The extra surface area might be nice to have and keep the bearing surfaces from wearing out to quicly.
The delrin works very well. There is almost no force on the delrin and the contact area is very small so friction is not an issue. However... It would be nice to leave the head unlocked slightly and and move the head with the motor as needed without locking or unlocking. A bearing would be better for handling this lateral load. I actually do this while drilling but not for milling.
I enjoy your projects, most satisfying. Please clarify your testing of the accuracy with the dial indicator. Does the column have a flat spot along the length where the dial indicator is referencing? If not, then is this test correct for checking radial movement of the mill head?
I had the quill fully extended and locked. The indicator was on the side of the quill. The exposed quill is about 6-inches long. This test tells me if the quill stays aligned with the column as it moves. The indicator is on the curve (left side) of the quill. Of course I am assuming the quill is parallel to the column on the other axis (very close I'm sure) and if it is this is the best way to test. Maybe the only way.
I leave it off for a couple of reasons. First, it rattled terribly and second, to loosen or tighten the draw bar it helps to grab the pulley. I just got tired to lifting the cover. It would be fairly easy to trim the covers for the modification. Also, some of the newer mills have a plastic cover that might not rattle.
