Love the idea for this new series and am excited for future episodes! No notes, this is an excellent branching out for the channel. However, be wary of using premieres for your content - missing the start time can discourage people from clicking on the video until the premiere has ended. Premieres also make the video more complicated to share on other websites as a disclaimer of "starts at x:xx pm" or "begins in x hours" has to be added somewhere in the shared post to give people the heads up. With that said, if this and future premieres put up great numbers for your channel, by all means keep using them. Also best to avoid posting your vids on special occasions or events, like posting on New Years Eve for this video or the Sabres/Canes video on the day of Carolina's Winter Classic, you may miss out on potential viewers due to people being pre-occupied with festivities or celebrations.
I think this is your best video so far. I didn't know enough about it. Maybe make a mention about the Selanne difficulties, but it also wasn't absolutely necessary to the video, so it doesn't really take away from your general analysis.
Your content is fantastic. I'm editing the database for EHM 2007, for personal use, and watching videos talking about players from that era is really helping me on how to grade the teams and players
The Selanne arc vs. Colorado is fascinating. Not only would he recover from surgery during the lockout to put up 90+ point seasons in 2006 and 2007, he’d eliminate the Avs in 2006, score his 500 and 600 goals against the Avalanche, and play almost a decade more
They made a document 'movie' about Selänne around 10 years ago when he was about to retire for good in which Teemu himself said that the surgeon who made that surgery for his knee said that the repaired knee would have 2-3 of hockey left in it...But in the end it ended up having a lot more.
Graham, this is a masterpiece. I’m so glad someone’s telling these stories for the coming generation. Terrific job dude. Your channel is ultra impressive and entertaining
Yet another incredible video. The scary part about this cautionary tale is that many teams haven’t heeded the warning and would fall into the same traps.
I read an article about this team earlier this year and I wanted to learn more about them after reading it. So excited to see what you’ve put together here
Fantastic analysis man. That Bertuzzi-Moore incident section gave me chills and I can’t wait to see another episode like this in the future, maybe for some teams like the 2019 Blue Jackets, the 2012 Kings, or the 2011 Canucks. But no matter who you pick, I know I’ll be right back here to watch it
Avs were my team as a kid and I always look back fondly on the 03-04 team. Obviously biased, but that was one of the greatest rosters that never could, I think
Never heard of this channel before. Really enjoying the idea for this series. I bet it requires a ton of research. I hope you do other episodes and focus on a variety of storylines: champions, underachievers, choke-artists, under-dogs, breakout stars and swan songs. As a Habs fan, I think an episode on the '93 Habs would be fun, the '09 Habs would be sad, and the '12 Habs would be dramatic.The 2020-2023 Habs would be insane as they set the record for injuries only to break it again the following season. Keep up the good work.
Great format for telling this tragic tale. I like the time-line graphic a the core element. The news articles are an excellent supplement. Perhaps a bit more emotional narration would have been an improvement. No mention of Selane's subsequent knee surgery and rehab? He had a terrible season but was basically playing on one leg. Overall a great job. Thank you for creating this.
I will say, this editing style is basically the exact same as the fabulous Jon Bois over at SB Nation, not to take away from this work of course, im glad someone is being this thorough and attentive for hockey content :) But you'd probably love Jon Bois's videos as well, since he basically coined this style of sports documentaries. Even if you don't watch NFL or MLB, the history of the minnesota vikings and the seattle mariners are good enough to move you to tears
Absolutely brilliant. Yesteryear, in its short history, has only yet covered teams that didn't quite make it all the way yet were still incredible. If eventually you do feel like covering a cup winner, my choice would easily be the 2019 Blues. The Cinderella run to end all others. Or really whatever else comes to mind. Thanks and keep it up!
Great documentary! I think this will be last super team we will see in the NHL for some time. The team just never jelled together with all the injuries.
Everyone talks about Paul And Teemu, but I always think about Petr Forsberg. Man if only that guy could stay healthy over the years, they wouldn't have even needed to get the Duck's stars. Durring his prime, I don't know if I've seen anyone more dominant, it was like mixing McDavid, Ovechkin, and Mathew Tkachuk's play styles all in one. Speed, scoring touch, and physicality like nobody else, all at the same time.
It's crazy that a 2nd round exit is one of the darkest seasons in avs history. It was the start of the dark ages, almost 20 years of bad play, coaching and gm moves. Most don't even correlate the Steve Moore incident and the Kariya/Selanne signings as the same season. It all just sort of swirls into a blur.
Trying having a go at a 3rd ring. It's simple. Any team that's getting along with an aging core must face the reality. You have been building for success, your prime is behind you. Smart teams try to build sustainable nowadays but getting a real, tangible Cup window doesn't happen to every team in decades sometimes.
Great video, amd instant sub. I'd live to see you cover the flyers 2010 run to the finals. Was a playoff run I'll never forget, amd the fact that they made the playoffs on the final day against rival Rangers. Was a run for the ages.
Trading away Derek Morris was a mistake that the Avalanche ever made, yes they needed to get tougher and protect their top 6 guys but c’mon Derek Morris was a top 4 defenceman Chris Gratton was a great player yes but was showing signs of decline after being traded to Phoenix for Daniel Briere!!! , Mike Bennett on candidate for the worst general manager and Ossi Vaananen was barely a point per game producer. Also signal the sign that the Avalanche were slowly fading away from contenders to becoming a decent team.
Honestly, as a Diehard Avs Fan that jumped on the Bandwagon for their first Cup...I didnt even care if the Avs were good with Selanne and Kariya. I finally got to see two of my Favorite Non-Avs play for them. That alone was worth it.
3-0 series leads and the Sharks... A dangerous combination. Maybe that 2014 season deserves a retrospective. Either from the point of view of the winner or the loser it would be interesting
David Aebischer after the lockout he was no longer the same goalkeeper. I never understood what happened to him. I'm Swiss, I live in Lugano, David later played for HC Lugano for many years and you know what?? He was the worst goalkeeper we have had in the last 30 years. This matter remains a mystery to me. Never mind, it must be said that David has always been a good boy, this must be said...
in a few years ull have an amazing bruins version. The Dynasty that never bloomed. A 20 year span of one of the best team in the NHL that just never found the magic that it found during its first deep run.
Fun and not so fun fact: during the steve moore incident, current canucks assistant and head coach of the 2023-2024 season adam foote and rick tocchet were on the avalanche side during the incident, tocchet as a assistant coach and adam foote as a player. Wonder how they feel about the incident
You think that coaching seldom has a large impact on a team's success? I strongly disagree. Don't teams often switch coaching staffs in the off-season and become significantly better without any significant roster changes?
That does happen, but it's pretty rare. Usually after a coaching change, the team continues whatever trajectory they were already on. The reason we remember the successes after coaching changes is *because* they're much less common.
@@PinholesGraham Interesting point. You're probably correct that more often than not it has no discernible impact. Maybe what I really mean is just that a coaching change *can* significantly impact on a team, and sometimes does, but it usually does not. So maybe we don't actually disagree...
@@humanbeing2420 It's certainly possible. As an observer and not a plyer I obviously have no insight into how things change in the locker room and in terms of process, but we can at least look at the bottom line - which ultimately, is all that matters anyway. Sounds like a good video topic!
This video featured Karlis Skrastins, Marek Svatos, and briefly mentioned Wade Belak. Those three players share three things in common - they were all former Avs, they each played several hundred NHL games, and they all tragically passed away in their mid-30's. RIP
Marek Svatos will always hold a Place in my Memory. NHL 06 Was the one with him as a Rookie and I played the fuck out of that game. I'm an Avs Fan so Every Franchise First Year he won the Calder for me.
@@matejtrnovec9144 Svatos died of a drug overdose. Belak took his life. Skrastins died in the KHL Lokomotiv plane crash that also took the lives of a few other former Avs (and almost everyone on the team had played in the NHL).
One thing I didn't mention is that Selanne had been battling a knee injury/putting off knee surgery for a few years to this point in his career, one reason why he wasn't himself in 2004. But since he didn't suffer that injury this season, nor got treatment for it until there was news that the lockout was 100% coming, nor was mentioned by himself or the media anywhere I could find during this season, I figured it wasn't critical to the video. Fortunately, he got the surgery he needed while the league was on lockout and went on to have some of the most productive age 35+ seasons in NHL history.
The knee injury was supposed to be career ending and the surgery done to it was highly experimental and it healed way better than anyone ever imagined.
Selanne apparently had knee issues going back to his time in Winnipeg. They begrudgingly matched a frontloaded offer sheet on Keith Tkachuk in October 1995 but figured they didn't have the money to keep both. Team doctors were worried about Selanne's knees holding up so that was one of the reasons they opted to trade him in early 1996.
geez, I wanna thank you for this. This was so well done. As somebody that lived in Denver, when the Avs came to Colorado, I have one of the greatest Patrick stories. a friend of mine had season tickets which were right below where the press box was and that’s where Pierre L would sit and it was great, because I actually learned some French because I believe he was always talking or sometimes talking in French Canadian. when Roy traded to the Avs, nobody could pronounce his name and if you remembered old McNichols Arena, they had that really bad kind of Jumbotron or whatever you call it when Patrick came out they did this thing with Bruce Lee because Bruce Lee would go like Wah it sounded like roy. The story goes that after they did that Patrick was told I don’t know if it was the PR people whatever that if they ever did that again it would not be good and they never played that again. It’s just a great story. The thing that this video really reminded me is that gosh that team should have one way more than 2 cups and I know you can say that about a lot of great teams but seriously the talent they had was just ridiculous. It’s just how it goes sometimes but man that was a great team I mean it was a great team right on the verge when they came from Quebec. It was just I don’t think the fan base really understands how lucky they were and I’m not saying that it’s a good or bad fanbase. I just mean that it’s pretty amazing what they got from that team. Peter Forsberg was in town a couple weeks ago and he showed up on some of the like talk shows or whatever you wanna call it and got that guy is just still the coolest person I’ve ever seen God he was a great player. Talk about somebody that could even had a more ridiculously great career without all the injuries and part of it was he played so hard I really believe in today’s game he would be scoring like 150 points season. Thanks again for this video really brought some great memories back.
I think it's pretty critical to the video considering how much time is spent focusing on Selanne's lack of production, demotion to the fourth line, being a healthy scratch, etc.
I've got a Dave Aebischer helmet signed by the entire 03-04 roster. It's probably my most valuable piece, a superstar roster that should've won but never got rolling.
The Bertuzzi Moore thing is probably the craziest moment I’ve seen in my hockey watching lifetime. Everyone was talking about it, it was the sucker punch heard round the sports world. Moores serverity of injuries, them going to court over it, Moore essentially having a “hit” out on him within the Canucks dressing room. Just wild man.
I actually missed the Steve Moore hit on Markus Naslund and I didn't know about this even though I was watching hockey back in 2004 after the Mighty Ducks Cinderella run in 2003. So that's were the beef started and then ended up with the Todd Bertuzzi cheap shot, and that incident was all over the news and ESPN Sportcenter and ESPN News had a field day on this coverage. So it was Steve Moore that injured Naslund, and that's where the head hunting thing came about. It was a really wild time in the NHL when that cheap shot happened, and before that, the hit on Naslund shook up the Canucks so much that Brad May wanted to have a bounty on Moore, but he didn't injure Moore and Bertuzzi went for the cheap shot instead. Knowing the events before the cheap shot was important, and this is what I completely missed since I thought it was a random encounter when the cheap shot happened, but the past events led to that. Pinholes Graham nailed this perfectly and it was a very big deal when Naslund was injured since he was the best player for the Canucks at the time along with the Sedin twins.
Fun fact, Bates Battaglia would end up winning The Amazing Race with his brother after his NHL Career was over! Just something interesting... I love the story of the 03-04 Avs because it goes to show that no matter how much talent you have on a roster, you can still be beaten. The Rangers also tried assembling a mini super team that same year when they paired Eric Lindros up with Messier, Leetch & Jaromir Jagr and that too also backfired. Great job as always! Just joined ya discord too
This team is my biggest what if in sports. It’s very telling that about 15 years ago I was on Teemu’s website and he has a few paragraphs about every season he played except this one. All he said was something along the lines of how he and Paul teamed up again and it didn’t work out. He’s probably the only player who benefited from the lock out. He needed that surgery on his knee and a whole year off to heal.
As an Avs fan I always love to see the History of the Franchise be well documented in video format. I was still in Elementary school during the 2004 Season so I don't remember much from the early 2000's. Getting a History lesson about the Superteam that never was is a real treat. Thank you PHG.
51 minutes felt like a breeze! I remember 12 yo me thought the cup was going to Colorado that year with the Kariya and Selanne signings and l was shocked when it didn’t happen. Seemed like a given, but that’s hockey and it’s why l love the sport so much; anything can happen. Happy new year 🎉🥳
only thing I think could have added to this was some sort of "where are they now" for these players and coaches, giving a quick detail of highlights and lowlights of their careers and lives after this fateful season. Would have been cool to see the post lockout careers for a lot of these players mentioned
One player in this video having a pretty great post-NHL career is John-Michael Liles - he's currently hosting a Coach's Corner-esque segment on Avalanche broadcasts on Altitude, two days ago he had Ryan Miller on as a guest
Oh man, I remember when Kariya and Selanne signed with the Aves. I thought the cup was theirs and then everything just imploded once the games were actually played.
It was evident that when they played together, Granato never put a power forward like Foppa on a line with them, meaning they got pushed around ALL the time. They had no space and Granato really pissed me off with how he managed the lines. Sakic, Kariya and Selanne as a line is a video game line, but they are ALL small, SKILL forwards, they needed someone to be down low to grind because they couldnt. This was the ultimate downfall of this year.
@pilotamurorei Yeah I'm hesitant to lay the blame at the feet of just one thing when so many went wrong...but man, a lot of Granato's lines were just cripplingly bad.
This was really well done. As a fellow editor, your stuff is on point. I'd love to see more of these! Small suggestion: maybe look into the NYR Dark Ages from 1997-98 to 2003-04. That could make for good content. Anyways, good stuff as always!
I was a fairly new Avs and overall hockey fan in 2003. Stoked when 8 & 9 were signed, coming right off of Foppa's Hart Trophy and Hejduk's 50 the previous season. Everything that could go wrong did. Even being new to the game, none of the Lacroix trades made sense. Only Konowalchuk really worked out. This team never really forged an identity, and it was clear after the season that the glory days were over. Imagine being so certain you were playing for a Cup in July only to realize the dynasty was over 9 months later. Brutal. ESPN also did a running documentary on this team during the season. It's only underwhelming because the team itself ended up underwhelming.
Can't believe it's been 20 years since this disappointing and injury filled season. Even though I'm a Canucks fan, I wanted the Avs to win it all. And yeah, both the league and the Canucks (especially Bertuzzi and May) mishandled Moore:s hit on Naslund that led to the horrific aftermath. I feel for Moore, whose pro hockey dream was abruptly crushed , but his hit on Naslund was awful. Finally, no one can replace Roy, despite Aebischer held his own..
The Penguins trading Nasland really caused some butterfly effects. This was a hell of jorb, man. Great work, and glad to see you're getting the attention you've earned.
If you take that roster at the start of the prior season it looks like a super team, but in hindsight, it seems obvious they were risky choices, relying on Forsberg, Kariya, and Selanne to remain healthy, throw in a bit of bad luck and the rest is history. But not as much was known about concussions, Selanne was keeping his knee injury quiet, and Forsberg had just come off his second best season of his career statistically. Going all in on a super team is risky.
I would be interested to know whether Patrick Roy would do things differently if he had to go back and do it again. His final 2 seasons were among his best statistically, so he clearly could still play at a high level. And the Avs, as stated here were still a very good team with management and ownership willing to go all in for another year at least. Personally, I think he should have played one more season at least and probably 2. It's a shame that he retired when he did.
Hard to say the Avs had "too many good players" when they were essentially trying to copy what Detroit did in '02 by loading up on veteran star power to augment an already talented roster. Unfortunately for Colorado they were really unfortunate in the health department and Granato just couldn't integrate Kariya and Selanne into the lineup properly. Maybe the missing ingredient for the 2003-04 Avs was a star goalie? But even then Aebischer performed exceptionally and had comparable playoff numbers to what Hasek had in '02. I think what the ultimate difference was was the lack of another star defenseman besides Blake for the Avs. The Wings had Chelios to go along with Lidstrom on the back-end. And while Foote was still a steady defensive defenseman and Liles was having a bit of a breakout neither man compared to Chelios. Perhaps if the Avs had acquired Gonchar or Leetch (who went to the Bruins and Leafs at that years TDL) maybe the story is different.
Crazy that like 25 years later and the Avs still haven't found Roy's replacement, and somehow they won a cup still in that time. Thanks Kuemper. You were solid for most of that year, but we all know you're not Roy
For all of LaCroix’s brilliance, his trades in 03-04 were very questionable. Remember, LaCroix traded Chris Drury to Calgary for Derek Morris, who was then traded for Gratton and Ossi Vaaaaanasanan.
Top tier video. What a crazy story for what could’ve easily been titled “most stacked and strongest team of all time” so sad how much injuries impact a team in hockey, but I wouldn’t have it any other way.
I literally know nothing about hockey and I have never seen a game live but this video was really interesting, I might actually go and watch a real game if an opportunity arises 🙂
You werent around on the old Avalanche message boards back then. I was. No matter how good Aebi played, ALL avs fans were shitting all over him. He even broke one of Roy's records that year, yet no one gave him ANY credit. Youngins like you who werent around then are just parroting the lamestream view of the avs at the time and werent old enough to even see that happen live.
Well, having watched half the games in this season and the entire playoffs, I still did my own research, and you could argue my 20-years-later view is more objective than someone who was neck-deep in all-Avs message boards as events occured. Thanks for watching!
In the video doesn’t he literally state that he played well and didn’t get the credit he deserved? Stop gatekeeping you old fart, go to bed, the nurse is waking you up early tomorrow to help you take your pills.
