I think this makes Khazad-dûm even more notable. Yes, at the time of the lord of the rings it is abandoned, but it's still there. Almost all of its contemporaries are gone, and yet it remains, eventually to be reclaimed. The last great city of the First Age. In this light it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Khazad-dûm is the greatest city in Middle Earth - not just because of its grandeur, but because it alone weathered the ages. It also speaks to the nature of dwarves, enduring that which destroyed so much else.
There's actually a survival-crafting game set to release later this year (although it may get delayed) called Return to Moria. It takes place in the Fourth Age, when the dwarves begin to reclaim Khazad-dûm. I really hope it's good because the concept is amazing, and we need _something_ better after that awful Gollum game.
The forest Arwen goes back to where she and Aragorn met is particularly haunting. Not just because it's been abandoned in their lifetime, but she dies alone. Tolkien has a way to describe loss that very few comes close too.
Tolkien's refusal to give Arwen a peaceful, blissful death and to instead hammer home her sense of grief, isolation, and even resentment and regret as she nears her own demise -- to demonstrate that her sacrifice was indeed a *sacrifice*, something with real consequences -- massively increases my already-high estimation of his writing. It also makes me cry sometimes, usually around 3 AM....
@@GirlNextGondorhe was always fantastic at hammering down and emphasizing the consequences of one's actions. It doesn't matter how much semi redemption Maglor and his brother had at the end of the first age, there's just no walking back from the kinslayings that they were involved in. Period.
I always think it's an underrated bit of lore that Gimli was going to set the lock of Galadriel's hair in imperishable crystal as an heirloom of his house. What a future McGuffin!
Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Feanor inspired to make the Silmarils because of Galadriel's hair? If so that is a beautiful piece of poetic coupling three ages apart (If you count the Fourth)
And there are material items that still show places like Valinor still and Numenor did exist, such as the Ring of Barahir that was made in Valinor and journeyed through Numenor. And there's Narsil, Glamdring, Orcrist and Sting, which go all the way to the first age, Gondolin and Numenor.
Oooh. This vid focused on the geography but another one focused just on 'artefacts' would be a great topic too. I can't help but think of Thingol's sword Aranruth, which canoncially *was* lost in the sinking of Numenor.
@@GirlNextGondor I was expecting this video to be about artifacts, based on the title. I've never thought about the Third Age lands having any geographic connections to the First Age. To me, the Third Age is east of Ered Luin and the First Age was west of Ered Luin, with no overlap. Reinforced by Beleriand having been destroyed. This made the video a very pleasant surprise! I loved all of the background in the first half of the video, and also loved visiting the places with connections to the past in the second half. The comments on this video and your replies make the story even better, adding so many cool things to think about. Thank you so much! :)) P.S. Please make the 'artifacts' video!
Tolkien's evocation of the 'heartwrenching sense of the vanished past' is just one of the many things that makes his work so unique and special. I remember reading The Lord of the Rings in middle school and I knew that it was special. Some of it was still a bit over my reading capabilities at that time and beyond my usual attention span (I was very much into The Black Cauldron series by Lloyd Alexander at the time which were very much aimed at older elementary to middle school aged kids) but I stuck with The Lord of the Rings even though it was a difficult read for me back then because of those unique qualities it had.
“We look towards Númenor that was, and beyond to Elvenhome that is, and to that which is beyond Elvenhome and will ever be.” - Faramir I see parallels in how we perceive our own history and prehistory. Especially looking at Ice Age artwork that preserves images of extinct wildlife, hominids, and landscapes. We know it existed, we know our ancestors lived in that world, but we also know it’s a world that’s gone beyond recall All we have are a handful of relics
There's a specific, tingly kind of feeling, both exultant and wistful, that I mostly get from contemplating: prehistoric relics, and Middle-earth 🥹 So far I have yet to find any author or artist whose work evokes that sensation so fully.... handful of relics indeed.
It is humbling to realise that those lands where once roamed Irish elk, bears, wolves, big cats, bison, Neanderthal humans, mammoths and forests of immense size are changed and that those species are either much reduced in number and range or extinct. But that we know they once lived and moved is exhilarating, because it puts our presence and actions into context. It makes our role part of the whole picture.
We don't even have to go that far. Ancient Egypt was ancient even to the Romans and Greeks. We have a lot of Egyptian archeology to go on, but it is still a civilization unfathomably far removed from our own when it was at the peak of its glory. The Great Pyramids, built c. 2,500 BC, are further removed in time from Cleopatra than she is to us.
What drew me to the Silmarillion were the haunting ancient ruins of Middle Earth pointing to a distant history that whispered to me. They made me curious about the first and 2nd ages of Middle Earth. I wish the stories of the Silmarillion would have been more time sequential.When I read Unfinished Tales, I discovered stories from the history of the first age that were not included in the Silmarillion. This was a very detailed video on the First age and the lands and places that vanished due to destructive forces in the First Age. Thanks!
For me it was the story of Earendil and his voyage. when it was sung during their stay Rivendell when they first arrived. Since then I had wanted to know more about how it came to be and the story that was built around it. that alone would have made reading the whole of the Silmarillion worth it, but the whole story gripped me.
This is a very nuanced topic, Lexi, and you covered it better than I dared hope. The sense of a “vanished past” is indeed throughout Tolkien’s 3rd age work, and it’s there in the “discovery” of the earliest “Cottage of Lost Play” writing. You capture this lingering wistfulness well.
Happy to hear you enjoyed it! - it was a (good) challenge to explore this material in a way that was more nuanced than a straightforward catalogue of places. But as usual I found myself uncovering some unexplored vistas, because I had a defined topic to drill down on. *How* Tolkien retained that 'heartwrenching sense of the vanished past' given all he came to 'know,' or suspect, about said past over the course of his writings, is truly a testament to the man's capacity for wonder! 😂
@@jpbjoelTrue there is a theme of decay and decline as the ages progress, but it's not quite that linear. A good example of this would be Aragorn, who was definitely an equal to Isildur. Another would be the Hobbits themselves who (as far as I can tell) didn't emerge until the late second age. And those little guys were legends.
Wow! This single work so well describes the lostness of the past and how it still in small ways can be perceived or even seen today (if the modern day - the ?? Age - were in the Tolkien universe) that I believe I can point people to this video, who want to know more of the roots of Lord of the Rings but don't have the time or will to unravel the mysteries for themselves, and have them satisfied in their curiosity. Once again, Lexi, you demonstrate a gift for condensing the Lore in such a way that the viewer doesn't feel they are getting the "cliff notes" or abridged version of events. It is difficult to create a video of this nature with a sense of completeness, you do it well and with humor, poignancy and emotion to boot. You never cease to satisfy. Thank-you. 🙂
Deeply appreciate the praise, and I'm so glad you found satisfaction 😊 I definitely felt like I was only 'getting at' one small part of the vanished-past aesthetic that's such a key part of Tolkien's work. It really does influence so much of his best writing, and almost every important story or motif ties back in with this melancholy awareness of what's been lost to time....
@@GirlNextGondor Lexi, you speak truth. Isn't that one of the aspects of Prof. Tolkien's genius and how there can be so many Legendarium centered channels, that there seems, always, to be more to discover or dive deep into? I am convinced there will be content creators like you, and patrons like me for a long time to come. Yay!!!
Interesting note about Utumno is that in Minecraft Lord of the Rings mod in the huge wastes of Forodwaith there can be found ruins of Utumno (although they are not mapped) which is a huge ruined spire in a middle of snowy wasteland in a mountain valley. In there is a huge abyss where if you fall down you enter into a new dimension with 3 layers of ice, obsidian and fire where you fight different foes ranging from orcs, spiders, troll, tormented elves and even a balrog.
Elves, getting to a new region: great, looks like we're the first ones here! Yep, that's right, definitely none of those ugly short people here, because that would be bad. Dwarven mansion that's been there for a hundred years: exists The elves: Damn it! Again? How do they keep doing this? Aule, in Valinor: lolololol
First Eldar, arriving in Valinor: yea we know truly that we be Iluvatar's Firstborn, for what in the Lands Without rivals our cunning and craft, save perhaps only the stunted and bearded hadhodrim, who indeed we hunt as prey and trophies, even as the kelvar? Aule: 0.0... u wot m8
This was really great. This aspect of Tolkien’s work, more than anything is what draws me back to it.....constantly; the bittersweetness of knowing that whatever tale of Arda that your reading is “going away” as you’re reading it. You read, and want to rest in the time and place that you’re reading about, and it never lasts. And it just keeps happening in every sequential tale. You can’t stay in the shire in summertime before it’s innocence and peace is ruined by a necessary, fated quest that makes you leave. You can’t stay with Tom Bombadil in a time-frozen forest that likely hasn’t changed in untold thousands of years, but is doomed to fade. You can’t stay in Rivendell, in the Hall of Fire, as ancient elves sing songs and tell tales that literally make the past essentially manifest in the room....as they fade too. In Khazadum, you only get glimpses of the most ancient of places in history, and then later find that in his epic struggle with a Balrog, Gandalf throws the thing down, destroying any memory of Durin’s stair, which was already only a legend. And Lothlorien.....the most aching place in LOTR. Ancient elvendom, literally preserved...timeless. A magical mixture of every elven people and place....the high elves, Aman, Doriath and the Silvan elves, and “dark” elves that had been sundered from their high kin, but alive and living a forgotten existence throughout the millennia. And then, you can’t stay, and Galadriel makes a point to tell you that it will all fade. And then finally, being confronted with the last remnants of Numenor in Gondor, and seeing this civilization that is no more than a shell of its former unimaginable greatness. And that’s only LOTR. The heartache of the prehistory of it all, and not being able to return to it is unreal. I think the tale of the Numenoreans might capture all of this the best. And probably because of the mixture of their lineage and grandeur, along with the constant awareness of their mortality. My favorite line all of Tolkien’s works is this one from Faramir: ‘Death was ever present, because the Numenoreans still, as they had in their old kingdom, and so lost it, hungered after endless life unchanging. Kings made tombs more splendid than houses of the living. and counted old names in the rolls of their descent dearer than the names of sons. Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry; in secret chambers withered men compounded strong elixirs, or in high cold towers asked questions of the stars. And the last king of the line of Anarion had no heir.' What a genius. He’s warning against the obsession with holding on to the past, as he writes a work fully intended to make you long for it.
Wonderful video, thank you! This essentially boils down why Tolkien's works has always resonated with me and grew stronger when I got older and more knowledgable in, specifically European, history. We all live on the remnants of older times, and there are instances and places this is feeling is exceedingly strong, like visiting the Basilica of Carolus (Charlemagne) in Aachen - it's a relic of an echo of a time and a concept lost to history (a remainder of the Carolingian renaissance which in itself was an attempt to reclaim the Western Empire) or standing on the fields of Verdun where the divided descendants of this idea essentially fought in a downright apocalyptic way over the crumbling remnants of the right to be considered the true heir if you boil it down far enough semiotically. I live within sight of lower mountains wherein the ruins of the Limes Germanicus stretch and some kilometres to the north-east we go even further down the road into history and encounter the remains, buried, lost and rediscovered of a Celtic Oppidum. And this is just a tiny location in Central Germany... And politically we live once more in an echo of an echo of a remainder and (maybe, depending on where you stand politically) the re-interpretation or the re-imagining or a pale copy of the old Idea of Empire - or does anyone here truly think that the founding of the earliest version of the now European Union in *Rome* of all places was a random coincidence? It all layers and it all has connections down the ages, and this is why Tolkien's artificial mythology seems and feels so *real.* It echoes how the world *actually is* all around us and so it feels "real" because we know these things to be true, for the layering of history in one and the same place is the way of the World and the nature of civilization. Best regards Raoul G. Kunz
This reminds me of an anecdote about an Italian(?) tour guide dismissively telling his American charges, 'you don't need to go in that church, it's only from the 16th century... not even that old🙄' Thank you so much for the comment! Glad you enjoyed 💖
The lord of the rings has always had this melancholic feel to me that I don’t think gets talked about enough. Tolkien is amazing at capturing the crumbling ruins of a once great world that still holds a glimmer of hope. I think this type of storytelling is one of the reasons games like the dark souls trilogy are so successful, you get to see the decline of the land of the gods in real time throughout the eons. Eventually resulting in a ruined world finally rendered empty for the expansion of humanity into their own dynasty of control over an ancient world.
Powerful and enjoyable analysis as usual. It leaves me yearning a little bit for a part 2, though. You outlined some geographical and linguistic/cultural traces of the First Age. I feel there’s also a place to weave enduring artifacts of the First Age into this analysis, such as the Ring of Barahir, the Palantiri, the conflicting legends of the Elfstone, the lineage of the White Tree of Minas Tirith, etc. Every time a new GNG video drops, everything else stops, and the Dear Wife tolerates.
Your Dear Wife's patience is deeply appreciated, one wife to another 😍 The trouble with trying to quantify all the LotR connections with the 1st age is there's so *many* of them... but maybe a worthwhile pursuit all the same!
I always thought it was almost unfathomable that the Hobbits of the Shire for a long time never went to see the towers of Emyn Beraid. How could you not want to see them? And likewise, how could you not want to know more after reading LotR? I think the sense of wonder invoked by the distantly seen vista was already experienced and enjoyed. The next enjoyment is to go there and find out as much as you can.
I think it's interesting how Tolkien places the excitement of unsatisfied curiosity *against* the satisfaction of recognizing something you didn't fully understand before - as if they were in opposition and not 2 pleasurable aspects of the same drive. I'm not saying he's wrong - he may be right! - but it's an interesting way to formulate the experience! Also same re: hobbits and towers. If I were not GNG and instead were , IDK, Delphinia Proudscuttle, you can bet I'd be scaling those Elven watchtowers as soon as I could.
i tend to assume that some do (probably tooks :) ) but most just aren't interested. Bilbo and Frodo both were very much homebodies when they started, not all that interested in anything that took them too far from their comforts and the familiarity of the shire. Sam was much the same, for all his interest in tales and the elves, while Merry and Pippin were still considered underage and lived on the wrong side of the shire to make it easy to travel and visit. which honestly helps explain some of it.. the ones most prone to adventures are the young, who don;t really have the resources to undertake trips like that easily, while once they've grown and gained the ability to do it, they've largely gotten complacent and uninterested.
I first read The Hobbit in the late 1960's and my focus was on the "here and now", rather than Middle Earth's past. At that point I was a Tolkien fan. Along came the Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion. At some point, when I was on a re-reading binge, I realized that The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings took place in the ruins of the past, and that the characters were the remnant populations of a far greater people. That struck me as profoundly sad.
I stumbled upon your gem of a channel. I found your channel while I was watching Men of the West which is another channel that I enjoy. I see a lot of potential in your channel and I was thoroughly entertained by the remnants of the past. I see good things for your channel as long as you keep true to the content that you make. So I have subscribed. And I wish that I could like your video more than once, I would do it 500 times just to give you that visibility. I don't know where your channels been hiding but I enjoyed
You’ve quickly become my favorite Tolkien content creator. Your analyses are so nuanced and approach Tolkien’s world with a tone and respect that I admire. Can’t wait for more!
Thanks for going into so much detail and grasping the spirit of one of the most beautiful themes in Tolkien. Places like Cuiviénen, sunken Beleriand and islands off the shore are honestly my favourite parts of his work, containing the echo and memories of places that can never be retrieved, let alone understood in their historical immensity. Just a little side-story - last week I visited a dam in my country that was constructed mid-20th century, previously a large V-shaped valley inhabited by people for centuries. The area was infamous for its frequent flooding and the Austro-Hungarian monarchy decided to transform the whole basin into a dam (the project was realized 70 years later by the fascist regime and finished by the communist dictatorship - a fun country we were). At the time of construction, some 3,200 people lived in the basin and were mostly evicted and moved to different parts of the country; the basin was flooded and 5 villages with it. However, a hill with a beautiful baroque church remained standing above waters and has been preserved as an island. Today there's a gallery. I had immensely strong Tolkienian vibes, listening to stories about final flooding, evictions, mourning of the people and seeing the last remnants of the vanished past - not only the island but also an old Jewish cemetery located on the dam's bank, just a few meters from waters. On the island itself, there was a calvary with 13 snow-white little towers leading up to the church - two of these remained under water, and the last ones were just there, standing on the shores of the island as monuments to the past. Truly fascinating and beautiful, just as Tolkien's depiction of the theme.
Thank you for this. In addition to the sense of 'loss' and 'perceived distance in time' (which I believe Tolkien also brings up in 'On Fairy Stories), I've also always been particularly moved by the recurrence of 'lingering.' The Elves who choose to stay in Lindon, the Dwarves that remain in the Blue Mountains, the Tower Hills from which Elendil at times looks towards the West... The emotional pull towards that which is irrecoverably gone, and the recognition of the need to continue onward in spite of it (which also brings to mind Sam's sorrow over the Scouring of the Shire, knowing that though his home may be healed and rebuilt, it will never be the same), offers, I think, one of Tolkien's most particular, and fundamentally human, themes.
I do wonder if Melkor's taint was spreading in Valinor back then not just through his inciting words and manipulations, but also his mere presence. Isn't his presence in the halls of Mandos a stain on the place, does it accumulate "marring points" for his time there? Perhaps it's more reasonable to link his corruption to concrete actions instead of regarding him as a source of dangerous radiation. But there is just some of the language Tolkien uses to describe Melkor's influence as if it is a physical matter or wave. And for that reason, I struggle to see why the Valar brought him to Valinor. I guess they saw no other option but it must have felt like inviting someone to smoke in your bedroom, knowing that his mere presence and his ways will in small increments take a toll on your spiritual sanity... "omg he's leaking discord" 🤪
I don't have the RotK appendix, but I do remember The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen finishing by saying that with the passing of Arwen came the end of all things from the Elder Days.
Reminds me of when the last living combat veteran of a major war passes away. The ink is dry and there are no more first-hand accounts to be recorded. The last British combat veteran to fight in the trenches of WW1 was Harry Patch. He was unfortunate enough to outlive both of his wives and both of his sons. Sounds like he suffered in a similar way to Arwen. This is what he had to say about war: "Why should the British government call me up and take me out to a battlefield to shoot a man I never knew, whose language I couldn't speak? All those lives lost for a war finished over a table. Now what is the sense in that?" Sorry if this made anyone depresso espresso. Life can be cruel.
What a massive title! Epic doesn't begin to describe this dive into forlorn ruins... Will catch up :) commenting as soon as I saw the notification. Bless you Lexi! I hope all is faring well.
@@GirlNextGondor Bless you Lexi! Oh I have to catch up on the past 20 hours or so :) but yes, I'm always optimistic when I see that Dav is live and it still shows, "BG II", and not "BG" :)
1:46, I'm hooked. 7:11, I'm committed. Great stuff. Dealing with his abstractions as I'd guess they were intended. 29:11: great writing, meticulous accuracy, ethical art use... just wow. Thank you. Please start a new literative world. You can.
Love your work, you’re excellent at this. Also, a bit of a shot in the dark here, but have you ever considered reaching out to Overly Sarcastic Productions to do a collab to help them do a Silmarillion summarized series? Maybe with the help of other channels like Tolkien Untangled or Signum University?
All my enchanted brooms do glow blue in the presence of an orcs-mess yes. I’m afraid I might possibly awaken a balrog if I clean too greedily with this one.
I always loved how certain events were only alluded to in LOTR/Hobbit- it gives the world so much more depth and realism than if everything is explicitly explained. Much like our own reality where we are still uncovering our own past.
Yay! You're back, with a great video as always! This video is truly as always a masterpiece Lexi. It is fascinant how entrenched the ancient ruins and traditions of the oldest days of Arda remain, the sorrow of losing so much of history and of declining in comparison to one's ancestors is one of the saddest themes in Tolkien's Legendarium. Though what's fascinating too is how the Rohirrim for example, rather than being in the midst of waning by the time of the War of the One Ring, they were at their peak to an extent (arguably), or at least still in prime condition. Arnor & Gondor are restored to their prior glory, though with that said they represent in themselves to an extent a decline in comparison to Numenor's prestige and power. I wonder what your thoughts are on the fact that though Gondor & Arnor represent a decline from the days of Numenor, they were rather more faithful to an extent to the ideals of Elros than most of Numenor's monarchs were, and how much of the Numenorian Empire was frittered away by the heirs of Tar-Minastir.
Neat dichotomy there - Gondor and Arnor, though more faithful to what we are told were 'true' Numenorean ideals, are still but a shadow of Numenor's glory, even while other realms contest with and even surpass their political power. My immediate thoughts are, it's 1) a commentary on how seeking dominance/strength is a corrupting impulse, so it may be better to accept a loss of worldly power in favor of preserving wisdom, and (somewhat more cynically) 2) the only record of Numenor's philosophy we have is what is reported by Elendil et al, the founders of Arnor and Gondor... and with their recent experiences, they're hardly going to be unbiased sources on what is/is not acceptable foreign policy! Nice to see you in the comment section as always!
@@GirlNextGondor Well, seeing as the opposition's foreign policy resulted in the complete destruction of their nation, I think Elendil and co. are perfectly justified in calling that policy FUBAR!
I think the wistfulness and sense of loss and change is what I find most inspiring about Tolkien’s writing. It shows such awareness of the nature of history, life & transience. The stories are dripping with this beautiful elegiac undercurrent and still people will sometimes reduce it to escapism. I love the way you bring these elements back into the limelight.
This was great stuff GNG. That deep history is something i love. To me there is something fascinating about the now unknowable story of the cats of queen Beruthiel. I grew up in Edinburgh a city where one walks on this type of ancient history and there are literally thousands of barrows in Britain. So this makes that very real for me. I think always of Niggle and the leaf that became a tree, that became a forest that became a landscape. We were lucky to get so many years of tinkering in the historical landscape from the professor, and we are lucky to have you illuminate these things for us. Thanks.
So glad you enjoyed it 🥰Tolkien's interaction with prehistoric sites, specifically British/Celtic graves/mounds/barrows, would make such an awesome follow-up....
often times I have the same feeling learning about the countless barrows, pectroglyphs, half lost tales and the like studying history, so the feeling of lost history and the deep sadness is brings I relate with a lot, even if I don't live in a place with much of such history
@@joseraulcapablanca8564 I find I can feel this with even more recent events. There's a stretch of highway in Minnesota, where I have lived most of my adult life, that I use periodically. When I first moved here and started driving that route, I noticed on one side of the highway there was an abandoned building on which someone had painted the initials C.C.C. Based on the apparent age and condition of the building, I think the initials stood for "Civilian Conservation Corps," a program started during the 1930s under the administration of President Franklin Roosevelt to alleviate the hardship of the Great Depression. I'd see that building and wonder who built it and what it was used for and why was it abandoned. And this was within the past century. Is the history of this building recorded anywhere? I think probably not.
I heard there is a welsh word called Hiraeth that is roughly translated as a tragic nostalgia that is either forever gone or was never real to begin with.
I very much liked this video thank you. honestly for all the melancholy, it's hard to stay in the sadness of it and not see the beauty of the world and how carefully it was shaped. even the tragedies, shortfalls, failings, and tears are not truly squandered. they each add to the majesty of the work and the world. It's also true for the real world, but that's a bit closer to home than most fantasy cares to delve.
I agree with you in principle, but I'm also beholden to my Patreon supporters. If one of them wants to be known as 'Manwe is a Tyrant' solely for the pleasure of knowing I have to read that sentence out at the end of every video... well, they're within their rights! 😅
If anything Manwë is hands off almost to a fault at some points. He certainly allows the Children of Ilúvatar to make their own mistakes. This isn't the style of a tyrant.
Tolkien once said that the central theme of all Anglo-Saxon literature is the death of man and all his works. In Norse myth this is paired with the doomed honor of Norse virtue, the great warriors of man know that the gods lose Ragnarok, but they go to fight with the gods anyway, and against the giants. Echoes of the Noldor, the Three houses of the Edain, and their war against Morgoth? This theme is particularly noted in Beowulf, because it is there mixed with the Christian idea of hope beyond the walls of the world. This potent combination clearly had a profound effect on Tolkien and would become central to his mythos. I love Tolkien showing in Arwen, how even for the very wise, the sacrifice is bitter when it comes to the moment. Even though long expected and accepted, it is still hard to swallow when it comes. Much like Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane saying to his Father "if it be possible let this cup pass from me, but not my will, but yours be done." I also love, the scene of Aragorn and Arwen's parting. Though Arwen's lonely end may be bitter, it is not really the end, because there is hope beyond the walls of the word, and there is more than memory. I think this is one of the reasons that C.S. Lewis loved the Lord of the Rings so much. This feelings, the longing for the home you have never known, the longing for a beauty that faded from the world before you were ever born, was central to his life as well.
Submarine nothing; can you imagine Elven freedivers? What kind of lung capacity could you command when you have superhuman control over your metabolism and reflexes??
I think that these elements that remain from the past are more or less an insight into how Tolkien saw history. Personally, I believe he saw the past as an era that maintained wisdom and that things became darker and more chaotic as time went on. He is essentially commenting on the world around him. To him, past world view and location had a real significance. I think Tolkien's view was that ancient peoples perhaps knew than us today. Tolkien was impressed with the awesome beauty of nature and hated how industry, technology and modernity have stripped what was intended. Tolkien was an amazingly creative author but I feel he talking about this world we live. How would this man see things today?
Thank you very much much. You touched up on places in the Simarillion and lost tales and other readings that I had forgotten and I really appreciate how you did this.
16:11 When Tom Bombadil mentions the Red Swords of the early Men, does he mean like Bronze? Was there a Bronze Age in Middle Earth long before Beleriand fell?
It's a good question, thank you! Bronze is not usually red in the modern sense*, but copper is, sort of anyway. If you add a little arsenic to copper, you can make a functional (if rather short) sword. That would still be bronze age technology, something it would make sense for independent humans to develop this skill without being taught anything by Elves or Morgoth's servants, who would have known how to make steel. The Men of Bree claim to be descended from the first Men to wander west, who found the area and settled in it. It would make sense if their ancestors are the ones Bombadil is talking about. *Before the word 'orange' came about, you would use 'red' about many more hues. We still call some hair colours red, though they are more brown or orange. That may be what we're dealing with here. The word was likely chosen at least partially for its connotations with blood, of course, and maybe (as the sun is also mentioned) the sun near the horizon.
Your content is always high quality, and the delivery always makes sense of complex Tolkien topics. I’m subscribed to multiple Tolkien channels and this is quickly becoming my favourite! :)
Thank you for the video. I don't believe I can add anything worthwhile to the topic, but it strikes a chord within my own perception of Professor Tolkien's work.
One lore aspect I love is not just the remnants of old places, but people. we meet several people in LotR and Hobbit who were alive and active in the first age. also Aragorn and Arwen are first cousins (nth removed) and quite echo their common ancestors B&L's story
BREAKING NEWS divers off the Eastern Coast of North America have discovered some... tantalizing ancient ruins, *covered* with inscriptions that can only be translated using the work of a mid-20th-century author.... We wait in hope 😁
I always thought that the destruction of Beleriand was caused by the pure devestation of the war against Morgoth. After all, dragons big enough to crush mountains fell from the sky and literal demons tore through the landscape. It didn't occur to me that Morgoth having ingrained himself so far into the land itself (which is why he's so weak) caused the land to fall apart once his presence was removed.
I started with The Hobbit and the original trilogy back when I was in elementary school. I didn't know the Silmarillion or unpublished works existed until the last decade. And boy was I excited to learn of them. At the time, I had an hour bus trip to and from my work, and they made great reads to kill that hour both ways. 😊
Being trapped in a car with nothing else to read is how I got past the Bombadil chapters when I was a kid struggling through LotR for the first time 😂the rest is history....
@@GirlNextGondor😂 Tom Bombadil was kind of "one of these things is not like the others" to me as a child, but he has grown on me over the decades. To be sure. If I may ask, how old were you when you first read/heard Tolkien?
@@GirlNextGondor Oh, 100%, same. I don't know if _every_ person who bought "History of Middle-earth," Volume: A Jillion would also have bought the equivalent volume of NWTTCHY, but I feel like the percentage of overlapping customers would have to be in the low 90s, minimum.
Arwens death is so tragic. She is so hurt by the passing of her husband so goes and lays down on a hill and abandons her life, it's something very elf like. They can do that in Valinor and go to the halls of Mandos, I wonder if she stayed there to finally say goodbye to her father in before she departed Arda entirely. Mandos has no power to force men to stay but like Beren perhaps they can linger if they choose it.
Ooof - it would be good closure for them, and certainly in line with their ancestral tendencies, but thinking about Elrond getting a day pass to Mandos so he can have one final meeting with his daughter's fading shade is cutting me up inside.
In all this there is talk of the destruction of forests by Numenorians and others, where were the Ents when this was happening? They were created long before men or Orcs.
Great idea for a video. I feel many of the Tolkien channels are getting a bit stale with their relatively surface level LotR coverage. When I read LotR and Silmarillion I was left with many questions, most of which have never been answered. A lot of them were “Where was X?” because Tolkien didn’t always put locations on the map.
This is such a lovely video, thank you. I've never watched one that's so lore accurate yet imbued with your unique voice. Like that pause for Niena and, haha, Gil-Galad's father :D Now, despite all the decades of being a fan of the legendarium - I spent so much money to get the topmost tier of The One Ring 2nd Ed just for that special hardbound corebook,a nd I used to answer SO MANY QUESTIONS in Quora - I just realized some things watching your amazing video: 1. The shards of Gurthang. They were buried with Turin, right? So... one of the most powerful, and cursed, weapons of the First Age is just off the shores of Mithlond? 2. You're telling me there's an island off Lindon where First Age spec Sauronian werewolves and vampires still live? Unless the Vanyar cleansed Taur-nu-Fuin in their charge towards Angband. 3. You have given me both a scare and an idea with the realization that, yes, UTUMNO IS STILL OUT THERE SOMEWHERE. 4. On the seabed of the west of Middle Earth are the treasures of all the Noldorin Realms in Exile and the height of Sindar civilization. Including the Dwarf-cursed treasure of Doriath. Also, a Silmaril, and a couple of Palantiri. And heaps upon heaps of Valinorean-grade Elven arms and armor. Now I have some ideas of what to throw at my players in case I end up GM-ing The One Ring 2e. Thank you, once again. Subbed!
Well done and enjoyable. I didn’t know that Tolkien explicitly said he sometimes wished that he didn’t write the Silmarillion so that the glimpses of the deep past might be preserved in LOTR as glimpses and not explicated. The Sil disappointed me for this reason when it first came out, though I later came to love it. Still I like to put everything out of my mind but LOTR itself when I reread it. I try to recapture my first readings when only it and the Hobbit were published.
Utumno is 100% still around, given its desription in realtion to other locations it is far to the north east but very much so still intact. For some reason people always get it wrong that it was closer to angband and got sunk with Beleriand.
Which is curious; why didn’t Sauron make his base of operations in Utumno? Or were the lingering remnants of Utumno simply unbendable to Sauron’s Will?
@@VexJinks it was much too large for what Sauron was doing. It is like a country underground it is described as the underworld. It made Angband look tiny and Angband dwarfed mordor.
What is truly haunting is that middle Earth exists and is quite real. The fall of Gondolin, Doriath, and Numenor all actually happened in a sense. The Bronze Age was every bit as magical as the first and second ages of middle-Earth. All the nations of the time fell, save a small handful as the world basically ended. Ozymandias (Ramses II) of the famous poem, "look up my works ye mighty and despair" saw the world end first hand as he lead a massive effort of one of that remaining nations of his time to confront the "sea-peoples" (whose nature is a mystery to this day). Egypt never truly recovered after that. Think last alliance of men and elves of a sorts. To put those events into perspective, what we call the ancient greeks considered that time to be the age of plenty and goodness, the age of myth and legend. They considered the age that came after to be one of "iron" which at the time was a difficult metal to work with (proper metallurgy involving steel hadn't yet been discovered). For them, the Iron Age, named after the metal associated with the age, was an age of poverty and desolation. It was a time after the great trade routes that brought luxurious tin from as far north as what is now England brought the main ingredient that was the bedrock of their society fell to ruin. The greeks looked back like the elves would at lost Beleriad, a time of hardship and prosperity lost to time.
I notice your deliberate hesitation at 19:37 before naming Fingon as father of Gil-galad -- a quiet acknowledgment of Tolkien's dithering about who his father actually was. Also at 20:53 before "female relative," technically avoiding spoilers for those who haven't yet read Turin's story! And at 22:18 -- well, not a pause this time, but an allusion to data found only in Bilbo's song Earendillinwe in chapter "Many Meetings." All of them evocations of the vanished past. Those "relatively minor" (ironic tone) disruptions at 12:32 are actually a toned-down account of what -- if you hold to a mathematically accurate account of the geometry of mapping a previously flat earth onto a newly global shape -- Tolkien dismisses with verbal sleight-of-hand, when he mentions the "World Made Round" but then immediately pulls the reader's attention back to the human-sized details of the drowning of Numenor. Earthquakes in the regions near the world's former edge must have caused overlaps of vast territories that were formerly hundreds of miles apart. I've never figured out whether Tolkien was less than fully aware of the drastic mathematics of this event, or whether he knew of it and simply declined to say much about it.
I suspect he knew the difficulties in such a mapping but was basically going with Eru Ilúvatar could do whatever he wanted. In his later writings Tolkien wanted to change the cosmology so that Arda was a sphere from the beginning.
@@istari0 Yes, I know about wanting to change the cosmology: "Myths Transformed" section of _Morgoth's Ring_. In my opinion this ruins the Earendil myth (if you can't "make" the sun and moon "late" in the history of Arda, you can't do it with Venus either). I prefer the flat-to-round version despite the geometric horrors.
@@larrykuenning5754 Tolkien would have had to rewrite most of the Silmarillion to make something like that work but he didn't get any farther than the outline in Morgoth's Ring. I too prefer having Arda originally being flat.
I think the overall sense of "the best times are behind us" in a grand sense, reflects Tolkien's well known dislike for and criticism of technology, modernization, and the concept of linear progress with respect to the human species. If it isn't obvious, I love these themes and would almost argue that in today's context with respect to the general and open worship of technology in our society, particularly the belief that it will solve all our problems, they present a rather radical critique of the status quo
I've mourned the loss of Valinor more than once. In times of escape in my youth I often yearned to discover the true, straight road, if only to catch a glimpse. I know it's just fiction, but the emotions are definitely real. While off-topic, the lore of Final Fantasy XIV also does this to me.
Small thing. I don't think it's right to say that including a map in a fantasy book is cliche. It's just a helpful tool that makes it easier for the reader to understand and picture the setting. That's sort of like saying that describing a character's outfit is a cliche.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Howard was a kid during WW1. Tolkien wrote on his legendarium while recuperating from trench fever. So 'technically' you have a point, if you mean that Howard published earlier. (IIRC, The Hobbit came out soon after Howard died.)
@@CriticalThought09 I think he did draw a rough map just to keep an idea of how each region was related to the other. I don't think it was even published in the pulp magazines he was writing for during his lifetime though but someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
I just recently came to understand that The Lord of the Rings is a post-apocalyptic world. The Third Age follows many "downfalls" and "ends of civilization."
"The vanished past" - wish more Tolkien channels were willing to dive into this. JRRT and his contemporaries were coming out of the 19th century northern European movement to find that ancient past, for the _volk_ of their region. SW Asia and northern Africa and Greece and Rome had written stories going back thousands of years, but the illiterate ancient North was only know in history through the eyes of the Greeks and then the Romans. *This idea of trying to recover the past is what fueled the later bloody ideologies that led to fascism* , and hence JRRT getting a letter from fascists because they thought him one of their own.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately! - the idea that what Tolkien presented is the 'other side' of an aesthetic impulse whose darker aspects shaped some of the regressive/repressive ideologies of the first half of the 20th century. I think the opportunity to honestly explore what is meant by 'the vanished past' is a fruitful, and overlooked, one.
@@GirlNextGondor It's very much overlooked. And among Tolkien fans there are two camps: those who just want an escapist fantasy, and those who want to use Tolkien for ideological reasons. That latter became quite prevalent in the culture wars over Rings of Power. As near as I can tell, Tolkien's attempt to make a mythical past was more driven by religious needs, a way to tell his story of a (soteriologically) lost world which can be saved by heros faithful to Eru. Given Tolkien's coming-of-age under the influence of his Catholic mentors I believe he was not able, and did not want, to go outside that worldview. LOTR is about death, which many young people may not grasp. It's also an attempt to sidestep the theodicy. Tolkien is answering, in fiction, the question of _why people have to die_ . So his First Age replaces Genesis chapters 1 through 11 in the Bible. It is the Age of founding things, an Age when mythical evil creatures (not humans) caused evil. But Tolkien wanted to set it in world whose culture had that flavor of his Northern European culture, and not say Egyptian culture or Indus river culture.
Nah that was me, making the point that Nienor has a 'double relationship' to Turin without having to annouce 'spoiler alert' for those who have yet to, uh, 'enjoy' The Children of Hurin.
Given Numenor was engulfed by a gigantic wave, the rest of Middle Earth, too, must experience some rising of sea levels. So, we have to imagine that there were more islands left from Beleriand, or the present ones were bigger in the Second age.
