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@@asadam9883 The father didn't die, so there is no need to talk about what if he didn't die. Also, the father is portrayed as genuinely caring for the children, that doesn't really seem to be the case with the (step)mother.
That idea is suggested in Tim Burton's Hansel and Gretel as the actor playing the step-mother also plays the witch. Reminded me of how in the Peter Pan stage play, the children's father traditionally double-casts as Capt Hook.
Elizabeth Ochoa True, but it depends on the situation. What happens if the birth mom was abusive and the step mother was nice and caring? You can’t apply that type of thinking for all situations.
@@parkchimmin7913 it's still very sad, because the mother was abusive. The kindness of the step mother is not in question. Regarless of how wonderful the step parent is, there is always that pain of being abused or abandon by a biological parent.
*Gretel:* "We are free brother, the witch will trouble us no more." *Hansel:* "Why are you talking like that?" *Gretel:* "This is how I talk." *Thor:* "Are you mocking me?" *Gretel:* "No.." *Hansel:* "You just did it again!"
Just punneh the scene where star lord and Thor first met and star lord was trying to sound like Thor cuz he was manlier and bigger then him. They sayin Gretal is pulling a star lord
No, we are much more sensitive and wishy washy. In the old days, when kids would die of typhos, cholera, rabis, etc, or when the greatest entertainment was a public execution, these stories were considered light and moralizing. E.g Hansel & Gretl, Red Riding Hood, Pinocchio etc taught children not to stray from the right path and never to trust strangers - which was essential for survival, since kids were often sent to work at an early age.
Believe it or not, their stories were almost always lighter cleaned up versions of the original folk tales. Just watch this channel for a while and you'll get the idea. Red Riding Hood is a perfect example.
The story was already messed up before you even broke down the origins. I mean who in their right mind would tell their children a bed time story essentially based of off canablism.
Addy Sugar Daddy. Have you seen some of the video games kid are aloud to play and who knows what eles on the internet. Please. I'd rather read these stories to my kids , at least I'd know what they were reading and where they were at.
Those kinds of stories and worst were widely circulated throughout all people and of all generations for most of human history. Even as little as 50 y back and the way kids were treated would be tantamount to child abuse today. Telling them stories about a child eating witch is no big deal.
RoScFan. Well not to bring politics into it what do you think the children at the Mexican boarder are thinking ? Being separated from their parents. These fairy tells must seem quite real to them. Except the evil step parent is an orange king bone spur.LMBAO!!!!!
Or try to take your switch or pet for her 6yo and tell you that you're too old for it and you don't deserve it, and say her kid got good grades so he deserves your things.
Welcome to Germany, were your grandma read you all the original fairytale versions from an old book she had since her childhood when you're about 8. It's somehow quite disturbing and still sweet and wholesome.
Fräulein Zeppelin I knew the original stories of most of them as well. I am not German, but Dutch and really like fairy tailes in general so I started searching the orgins.. still a lot of people are suprised when I tell them the original stories.
Fräulein Zeppelin bei uns in Österreich ists genauso! Durfte mit 9 Altdeutsch lernen weil mein Opa wollte dass ich ihm die Bücher vorlese und nicht mehr er mir🙃 great childhood memories
@Charlie nor did mine. She wasn't cut out to be a mother, let alone a grandmother. Also her husband was terrible, honestly he could only have been worse if he had turned out to be a murderer...... Anyway, I read the stories to myself, the old ones. I read the new ones and thought they were...off.
For school in 7th grade in creative writing, we had to write an alternate ending to a fable, so I naturally chose Hansel and Gretel, and I made the ending be that the kids ate the witch instead of her eating them Edit: I realize I was very sadistic
My grandma had a Grimms book! I'm German, so I was exposed to all of the original versions of the stories. Most were quite brutal tbh Also, in German, "The wind, the wind, the heavenly child" rhymes, if that makes it make any sense xD
Ich glaube was ihn verwirrt hat war, dass es als heaven übersetzt wurde wie in der christliche Himmel, weil wir ja im Deutschen nicht zwischen "sky" und "heaven" unterscheiden 🌸
@@i.g3085 looks like most of the world is too used to the Disney versions. Like the innocent sugar coated version of cinderella. In Austria and Germany we all grew up with the real version. The whole bluddy thing
This is a very interesting discussion. Marina Warner has written an interesting book called "From the Beast to the Blonde: On Fairy Tales and their Tellers." She says that many fairy tales were describing situations that people were dealing with in the middle ages. So, for example, there were often severe famines and several fairy tales start this way. Some families may have indeed decided to abandon their children in a desperate bid to survive. Sometimes the children may have found their way into other homes. In addition, women whose husbands had died may have been forced out to live in the forests. In India, in last century, if a woman's husband died, she had to be burned on his funeral pyre. In some African cultures, the women were driven into the forest if their husband died. The idea may have been that, if a woman's husband died, she was to blame for not caring for him well enough. In the Middle Ages, those widows sometimes kept a cat for company but people back then believed animals to be much more intelligent than we do. (In one case, a duck was even put on trial for a crime.) The women probably talked to themselves and their cats out of loneliness, thus attracting the suspicion and dislike of the villagers who suspected them of being witches. Some of those women may have been so hungry that they turned to cannibalism to survive. Others may have been wrongly suspected of cannibalism. The overall reality of the story was that desperate poverty can drive people to desperate measures. The house made of bread was probably pure fantasy but elements of the story would have been based in reality but distorted.
The Indian one is fake....the colonialists saw jauhar, a system for women to self immolate as india was going through brutal island invasions and they were specially barbaric towards the women...doesn't matter alive or dead...in reality even today women aren't even allowed in crematorians much less near a pyre...and incidentally all cases came explosively from a British administered province ...who then gallantly passed a law to prohibit it ...and viola the cases stopped just as suddenly...as if practises like these if they truly existed would stop by a mere law. It was just another tool to mudsling hinduism and convert to christianity.
The Indian one is British propaganda. Women whose husbands died in the colonial era were severely abused. To avoid becoming victims of sexual and physical abuse, they committed suicide. The Brits then arrested people who did this to make themselves look like heroes, while subjecting this women to brutal, barabaric exploitation.
@@kimwhatmatters4085 this must've been a rarity... probably among a specific tribe... widow inheritance was by far the most common practice in case of a husband's death
As a German the Hänsel und Gretel I heard as child, was pretty much the same as the first story, but: - The stepmother hates the children and wanted to get rid of them for some time, she only uses the limited food as a reason, to get rid of them. - Hänsel steels the bread, the moment he overhears the argument between his parents and wants them to starve for planning to abandon them, he plans to use the crumps to find the way home and then survive by eating there parents. (So they are not abandoned twice in the story I heard.) - When wandering blindly threw the forest, they meet some animals, who warn them to never follow a sweet smell, they ignore this warning. - The witch let's Gretel work inside the house while Hänsel has to work outside, when the witch decides she wants to eat Hänsel she locks him into the cage, to feed him until he is fat, Gretel doesn't notice this. Also Gretel is locked in a wardrobe at night so that she can't escape while the witch is asleep. - After a while the two slaves manage to speak with another, while the witch isn't watching over them. (I think she was cleaning up a mess Gretel made.). While speaking Hänsel comes up with a plan to throw the witch into the oven. - The witch notices their little chat and wants to grill Gretel, but Gretel manages to throw her into the oven, by the trick already explained in the video. - They bake the witch and then proceed by making pie out of her, since during the hole time in captivity they were only eating candy and sweet bread (the walls of the house are made of sweet bread) and gotten sick of it. - As soon as they finished eating the witch her house explodes, because the candy was only held together by her magic. - They find a chest of gold under her house take it and go home. - Their stepmother already starved to death, but the father managed to survive (it isn't explained how, but since it fits the theme I'm just going to assume, he ate his wife, I mean everyone else appears to be a cannibal so why shouldn't he.) and they live happily ever after. Some variations I heard included: - The stepmother wanted to eat the children in order to escape starvation and their father rescued them. For some reason in this version Hänsel's plan still includes letting them both starve. - They are to weak to carry the heavy chest and go home emptyhanded, in frustration, but find out that their father managed survive, who agrees to help them carry the chest, if he gets some of the money inside. "Der Wind, der Wind, das himmlische Kind." is a common German saying.
The first one is interesting where Hansel and Gretal are cannibals. It reminds of an episode (Season 1, Episode 5) of Disenchantment where H and G are cannibals.
I’ve heard a version very similar. The part about the animals warning them and not being able to carry the chest. I’ve also heard a version where there are gingerbread boys and girls in the yard of the witch’s gingerbread house, and when H&G kill the witch, her magic is broken and the gingerbread children turn back into real children that had fallen into the same trap as H&G but not escaped. In that version, the witch bakes the kids into the cookies and then eats them, but it takes awhile so she decorated her house with them until she eats them. I love that there are so many different ways to enjoy these stories. And how messed up they are!
We both like dark stuff .............. COOL * 3 Days later " Queen Callista : Hey Kiara why do I always see you uploading Dark stuff now ? Kiara : Because I'm a demon now baby! Queen Callista : ................ What is life anymore?
They didn't exactly steal when they took the jewels. It was more like back payment for all of Gretel's hard work, plus punitive damages, and payment for pain and suffering for Hansel. The jewelry should be enough pay for that.
My grandmother used to tell me this version, but with a stepmother, swan, and the father didn't know. The stepmother told him they had ran away. She told me the "old versions" of most all fairytales. She would be over a hundred year old if she were still alive. I miss listening to her stories.
Absolutely! The weak simp father is the Judas while the stepmother/witch are models of the devil in the Judeo-Christian archetype. He was sold the world only to lose his soul... think about it this way: if you were the children, who would you resent more in the end? It’s those we love most that can hurt us the most
Karina Jakobsen yep he was more concerned about pleasing the stepmother so he could have sex instead of saving his children. Penis-driven instead of responsibility-driven. He brought those children into the world so they are his responsibility until they are self-sufficient. The stepmother is nasty for using her feminine wiles to manipulate the father. Both rotten.
From my experience, Men are easily manipulated by women and more focused on their livelihood traditionally leaving kids to be raise by their wives. That doesn't work well now in that the Evil step mother always gets the kids kicked out until she has everything and the kids nothing. The father always wakes up too late to save his family or his assets. Been there, never trust a strange women with your kids!
dilbertjunkmail yep! Be picky when it comes to a co-parent. Choose a stepmom who loves your children like her own. Goodhearted women like that exist. Don’t be distracted by the hot, manipulative women. The goodhearted women won’t catch your eye. You’ll have seek them out. They are often volunteering for their local community.
It's stepparents in general. Since man used to spend more time away, children would spend more time with stepmothers but the thing is, a lot of people don't like children, specially if they're not theirs.
It's actually pretty awesome that you go through all of the different versions, cultural context and the original plot all at once. Loads of people leave out a loooooot of information. This is great stuff to keep me entertained during the quarantine. Hope you never run out of stories to break down for us!
Please say subscribers, I beg you. I was very confused when you said he deserved a million "subs". Also, I had a good laugh. Just don't say your a "sub" or else people may get the wrong idea. Sincerely, A sub.
Considering the Hansel and Gretel version most are familiar with involves child abandonment, imprisonment, threats of cannibalism, and burning someone alive in an oven, that Nin and Nel version is tame by comparison. That Little Thumb story is all kinds of fucked up, though. That ogre's wife tried to nice and effectively lost everything.
That's actually a common fairytale trope, where the giant/ogre has a very helpful, kind, and compassionate wife. It may actually stem from the idea that ogres sometimes stole away women to rape them and make them cook and clean.
here in germany we pretty much grow up with all the messed up originals by the grimms and even hans christian andersens so its always fascinating to see someone elses point of view to those tales we know so well :) i even live where the grimms were born so all those fairytales were a huuuge part of my childhood. thats why i love your videos, theyre so well researched and super accurate!
I think the Thirty Years War and the other wars in Germany during the 1500s to 1700s really provided ample supplies of tragedy and horror for these storytellers to work with.
@@fancydarlin1 Andrew Dice Clay, a classic. "The Little Boy Blew - he needed the money." Wonder which category that falls into on Arne-Thompson Tale Type Index?
Not to be mean but being realistic. It really isn’t surprising that at 4 the stories had no affect. It is well-known small children are narcissistic. Small children rarely have the concept of how things affect other people that have nothing to do with them.
Even as a kid, I was always interested in the origins of things. If I found out a movie was based off of a book, I found and read the book. If I found out that a book was based off of an earlier version, I looked up the earlier version. Even if the stories were brutal, it didn't matter much to me. I just liked learning about the origin stories, so to speak, of my favorite movies and books.
I guess it's hard to do. If you'd sugar coat it there's nothing left. They're abondened by their parents they kill the witch. If you leave that out what's left?
In the opera, the story is softened somewhat. There is no wicked stepmother; the children's mother sends them out to pick strawberries in a fit of anger when they misbehave. Also, the witch isn't, properly speaking, a cannibal: her oven magically turns children into gingerbread, which she eats.
Wayback in the dark ages, 1960’s when I was in school. One of my classmates brought a book to school. It was large and very very led. What are the teacher was given the book, it was a Translation of the Brothers Grimm fairytales. It was a very very early book and I do not believe it was printed in the US spot in England. (This I do not remember well). Our teacher read a few stories to us, it was a real shock. He also showed the illustrations, also a shock. Nose is cut off, I plucked out my birds, Sharp knives and all kinds of terrifying images. They definitely not nursery stories if you want to keep your sanity and sleep well at night. I remember at the end of the day our teacher read the book up and some paper, and told the young man that he better get it home and back in his fathers collection. Because if he was caught he probably would not be seen at school again.
I read those stories, and I didn't lose any sleep at night. I read them when I was maybe... Nine-ish? I'm twelve now, that would be three years ago, which sounds about right to me.
Could you please do the messed up origins of The Big Bad Wolf? I'm still confused on what the woodsman really did to the wolf and I know the best person who can explain it is you... PRETTY PLEASE!...
I heard that the premise of the story was grounded in sad and practical reality - during great famines, people did leave their children to die in abandoned areas because they couldn't kill them outright but knew that they basically could birth new children if the famine passed.
Jon Solo, I love this channel! Please do a video on all the times Disney has killed off the mother. It confuses me so that Walt had an obsession with dividing families, but Disney is still seen as a "family- friendly" Enterprise.
There is a theory from I believe “The old men” (the animators who worked with walt) that Walt killed the mothers in his stories to reflect how his story telling killed his mother. He bought her a house and she died of carbon monoxide poison. Apparently he was very close with his mom and her death indirect at his hands really broke him.
My grandmother was a great storyteller ! I grew up listening to all kinds of fairy tales and I loved it! She didn't read them from a book, she knew the stories by heart. I actually heard the stories you mentioned in the video, separately, and till today I never thought they were somehow related to each other. That's pretty cool!
I actually heard a version of Hansel and Gretel where there was a big connection between the witch and the stepmother, being that the evil witch was actually Hansel and Gretel’s step-aunt. I always liked to think that because both women were apparently witches (as it was later revealed in that story) that the Woodcutter’s wife was connected to her sister somehow and died when the two children defeated the Candy-house witch.
In the german original the phrase Hänsel and Gretel say is "Der Wind! Der Wind! das himmlische Kind!". The word 'Himmel' describes heaven and sky, 'himmlisch' being its adjective. So I think they don't say the wind is something heavenly, but rather something that comes from the sky.
Yeah that guy needs to look up the original meaning of what he's saying before saying he's confused about it. It's just a saying because it's in the sky nothing religious there
I was in the comments to say exactly the same thing. I always interpreted it as just meaning, it's the wind, the sky's child. I.e. nobody's nibbling your house, you're just hearing the sound of the wind.
You should read 'The Decameron' by Giovanno Boccaccio, and 'The Canterbury Tales' by Geoffrey Chaucer. They're both 14th century works written in the same way as '1,001 Nights', and that other book you mentioned. In other words, they tell stories, similar to fairy tales, but told within the framework of a larger story. As a matter of fact, that style was quite common during the Renaissance. Back then, collections of stories were often told within the framework of a larger story, with a character (or characters) within that larger story telling the smaller stories for some reason. Later authors often borrowed from this style when they wanted to make their books, or collection of stories, seem archaic.
I love that A Story Dark and Grimm uses such a niche version of the story, it makes so much more sense *why* the prince and fish lady were included now.
I've long been fascinated by a Russian variant of this tale, from the Ural mountains. Жихарка и Лиса (Zhiharka and the Fox) tells the tale of a little girl who lives with two blacksmiths (a cat and a sparrow). While they are off to the market, to sell their wares, the fox kidnaps Zhiharka. The first time, she is recovered by the smiths. But, the second time, the fox takes Zhiharka to her home, with the intent of tricking her into the oven and then eating her. Zhiharka plays dumb and gets the fox to climb into the oven, by way of demonstration, and Zhiharka realizes she is missing out on potential treats from the market and starts to run home. The fox emerges from the chimney, blackened and screaming, which causes Zhiharka to mistake her for Baba Yaga (the quintessential Russian witch). Ultimately, the fox is defeated by the smiths (who have swords among their products). So, you have the young child, who is taken out into the woods... twice... and then, turns the table on a 'witch' who tries to trick them into an oven. The main twist is that Zhiharka doesn't necessarily outsmart the fox. She is so mischievous and precocious, that she ends up being a handful more than even the wily fox can manage (without actually realizing that the fox meant her harm).
"The wind, the wind, the heavenly child" is a direct translation from the German original "Der Wind, der Wind, das himmlische Kind". ...I believe it Was just used because it rhymes.
4:47 In German that line goes: "Der Wind, der Wind Das himmlische Kind." As you can see "Wind" and "Kind" rhyme with each other. And I think that was the only intention behind this line.
The past few days i've been watching the messed up origin series on your channel and it's so addicting to watch and hear different versions from all across the world! I love the series!
They represent the new forced faith. Christianity was forced onto Germanic peoples by the sword, you convert or you die. Those who decided to live didn't really change their faith, and from then on they spred coded stories through the tribes. The evil stepmother is usually code for the church.
I have a suggestion! How about an analysis of mythology. Norse mythology and others like it. There can be different versions of the same story. You would definitely be at home.
I think a lot of us that read versions of these stories were the Hans Christian Andersen version. He rewrote several Grimm tales and made them less violent and added more obvious morality aspects.
No, it sounds more like Henzel. Like Denzel Washington, just with H, and the accent is on Hän, not sel. Hänsel is a smaller version of Hans (John). It like calling a little John Johnny.
4:48 The Wind the Wind, the heavenly child. German Translation: Der Wind der wind das himmelische kind. Written by the Brothers Grimm it rhymes when read or spoken in German.
