The Vlang Drama 

That's what happen when people don't have enough tasks assigned to them on Jira

This guy is seriously unhinged. The longer the article went on, the loonier he got. It takes a Seriously very unhealthy mental state to threaten legal action, claim to not have threatened legal action, claim to not even believe in justice, then actually take legal action in the same article.

I find incredible how much drama programming langs can have. EDIT: for those who wonder. I'm talking the drama AROUND the community, not the programming langs themselves.

Imagine having to work with the person who wrote this blog post

OP is such a crybaby... and his communication is passive aggressive, creating all of the drama

dude literally witnessed one person get banned on admittedly somewhat dubious grounds and condemned them as fascists💀 and then even went on to rant about their own moral philosophy

> threatens legal action > claims not to have threatened legal action > takes legal action I lost brain cells reading that

29:25 The funniest thing is that the moderator was probably honest. If this guy ever managed a discord server, he'd know that not everyone gets server log reading permissions, and you certainly wouldn't want all your moderators to get it either. It's more of a part of the administrative permissions. So the only few people with admin permissions weren't online, a mod answered, and this guy went like "omg vlang is communist!"

"most external dependencies are riddled with unsafe blocks" - yeah, and? the closer you get to the metal (which is what the libraries are abstracting away) the more you have to dip into unsafe. The alternative is to use languages in which **effectively everything is in an unsafe block**

This guy just need to hear “it’s not that deep brah” He was in a programming language discord not the Third Reich

I can totally understand the vlang guys just being fed up at this point with trolls who don't offer constructive criticism. If I were a moderator who even agreed with the banned guy, I still would have banned him.

but to be honest, I also kinda feel this guy. I had situations in my coding life when I also got a slap in the face, things were not going the way I imagined, maybe even I was right, but the way I handled the situation was terrible and only made everything worse. thanks god I haven't later decided to write a huge article about it and it's only in the memory of max 5 people.

I just think to myself how this is even relevant to a programming language...

I was entertaining the authors thoughts until I saw the wall of text he posted in discord and i immediately knew he was wrong. Funny he thought that would support his argument. The part after that was clinically insane.

"justice" is exactly what he is asking for. Ignore his words, and look at his actions.

&u8 is literally a reference/pointer to a single character, which fits with char * but is not really a string.

People will say you're spreading misinformation about anything. One time i posted about a bad experience i had with a doctor and i was told i need to stop spreading medical misinformation lmaoooo

This is why I stay away from Discord groups. Never felt the need to be in a little "community" when I use a language.

The idea that you aren't allowed to make a video without knowing everything about a topic sounds like the person is just admitting "I don't want to think critically because it makes my brain hurt, so I'm going to just absorb your opinion so please know everything for me so I know everything by extension"

I'm also a bit disappointed having realised I just watched a 40 minute video about V and learnt nothing about V.

one day we will get a Social Network style movie about an open source community

V has a history and reputation of having a bunch of promises on its home page it didn't follow through on. I think that's far less true now that time has passed and it has had time to actually implement its promises, but I can see why they would be super defensive.

I am not sure anyone knows the meanings of words anymore.

As someone that's been in the V community on and off since 2019, I'd say a lot of this is just like Prime banning the guy off the top. The community is a bit tired of being constantly raided by bots with literal hate speech, the 'just use lang-x', 'why even bother, if blah exists', 'i stopped in and saw one rand comment [by someone that later got warned/muted/banned], so the whole server must be that way'. The V community is an amazing place to learn and share thoughts, but they are a GLOBAL community. What you, and i, find offensive is a tease or not even a thing to another country. Do you get upset in a online game when you see Brazilians say 'kkk'? Then check yourself cause they're laughing and may not even know about the Klan. I think a lot of folks forget this. My interpretation from interacting w/ him for years is that Alex tends to be more blunt, to the point on things, and doesn't feel like he has to explain everything when he thinks it's obvious (not saying good or bad on that, just is). He's doing what he thinks is best to promote the well-being of the language, but is fallible. Anyone that's interested in joining, learning, and being a part of a great global community is more than welcome. I recommend the Discord or GH as that's where most of the core team and developers hang out. My only suggestion, for everything in life really, is: Come in with the respect you want to be shown.

I don't know what vlang is but I am happy to be here

I went and pre-read the article before watching and I'm glad prime agrees... I don't really think this is anything. I think OP is just a bit of a putz and got on the nerves of moderation because he came in hot, already annoyed with expectations that don't match reality. We've all had run ins with moderation for personal disagreements... the difference is we don't all resort to ranting in our blogs and baselessly calling others fascists. I feel like there is a larger than average chance the author's hair color is not one found in nature.

13:11 Can't wait for "CrabLang for ECMAScript developers"

How much do you want to bet this guy typed that article on a Mac book? Wait till he hears Steve Jobs history

Guy lowkey outs himself as a bit of a psychopathic Puritan.

TL;DR: Attention-seeker requests their content removed from vlang docs to protest a troll's trolling being removed from a vlang chat.

What a crazy thing. Early adopters tend to have high % of crazy.

You speak about OCaml 5 as though its release is in the future, but the latest version at this time is 5.1.0 and that was released in september this year. Am I missing something?

Seems to me the reason this guy doesn't join any online communities, is because he doesn't understand how they work... comparing basic content moderation to literal fascism is completely delusional lol

There are a lot of Rust crates in the embedded world that have TONS of unsafe code, but that is because it is working at the hardware level.

Pascal is probably the most environmentally friendly language. You could compile it to native code in milliseconds on a 486.

People like this pop up pretty often in discord and other messaging platforms regarding anything technical. The thing is, they're usually teenagers or young adults who haven't had enough exposure to the real world or developed communication skills, likely from not leaving the house or surrounding themselves with like minded people or being in echo chambers.

what do you think about using Spans in F#? also, "milliseconds of computation time and pretty symbols are no trade-off for my soul", lol, anime hero vibes

6:30 You're confusing "wide" with "deep". In languages/APIs, I think of wide as many exposed features to express complex things, and deep as a small number of features that can be used to express complexity. Example: c++ is wide (and deep, because c), lisp/scheme are deep (and narrow).

There was some 'fun' drama recently in the Nixos community over someone's picture of literal beef on their profile page.

Someone should tell the author that calling someone a fascist in a blog post is more legally actionable than their copyright argument

It's better to separate the art (the lang) from the artist (the committee)

Great, now articles and tutorials about JS will need to change their article names to JakartaScript to avoid being baned.

This guy sounds annoying to deal with. He saw one moderation action he didn't agree and cut ties so hard he demanded his history with project be expunged. Then he went nuclear with a DCMA takedown notice. It seems like he just wants a project to match his very particular ideology.

Breaking up your huge rust project into several smaller, more manageable crates is, apparently, really hard... And bitching about compile times is, evidently, easy.

Autohotkey has a javascript layer, why has that not been taken down then?

"You fell in love with V and found out it was run by people." 100%. The author of this article comes off as extremely anti-social.

Love the Zig shout out in the beginning! Been doing it for AoC and I'm really enjoying using the language

Golang's ecosystem with Vlang's added features is the dream of any minimalist dev alive

Maybe the problem is for this situation is in the software system that allows rewriting history and removinvg any trace of massage without log and backtracking

I feel like i heard about the Author of V manipulating benchmarks and just being a jerk multiple timea - that has been one of the main reasons not to learn Vlang

If we cant use Javascript, why not use Java script? They are 2 different words that could mean completely different things, they cant ban those words without context. Maybe with context its possible to ban java space script but i don't know how law works

"I can't program anymore because they deleted a discord message!" I think this guy is far more interested in hanging out in discord chats than programming

But have you tried C#?

Will you ever try to write something in Odin?

In my experience, V is a great project. It compiles uh… blazingly fast, and has TONS of official libraries with fantastic examples, including UI, web, and CLI libs.

I can sum up the blog post in one sentence: "Good people always agree with me. Bad people never do."

All this did was get me wanting to try V

@1:30 Okay we're literally not even two minutes in and I heavily disagree with the author. All those strings exist for very good reasons and they naturally emerge the moment you try to make a language that - has strings which don't suck - has compatibility with the OS and existing low level code - has a concept of accessing strings without copying that's really just it. You ask for those three basic things and you can't do better than Rust. The only thing you could do to simplify it is decide that you're not supporting unicode by default, but even then, you probably want to provide an easy way to deal with unicode-containing strings as they become increasingly ubiquitous, so all you've done is swap Vec to be the default and String to be the fallback when you need utf8. This is effectively the route Zig takes, providing standard library functions to work with utf8 strings but saying that if you want a string it's just an array of bytes. Rust is a language that lets you go low level and that means you need all of String and Vec and CString and OsString, and their non-owned counterparts are a necessity as well. It's really not that hard to understand either: you just use String/str (which granted is non-trivial but is also just a part of Rust's fundamental ownership model) and forget about the others. If you need the others, you probably know what they are and exactly when or why you need them. Like. They're not similar things. You have Strings and you have special cases. I dunno what the complaint about converting between them is. Sure, the exact conversion rules differ between them because they _represent different things and thus can fail in various directions._ But it's really not that hard. You want to get from a CString to a String? Well, `.to_str()` if you just want a view into the CString or `.into_string()` if you want to convert it to a full string. I'm sure there are `TryFrom` implementations in various directions or whatever too. Not that I know these things in detail because these fancy string types aren't actually needed frequently, but it's not that hard?

Some justified concerns, but the article author exhibits strong Karen tendencies.

I don’t know how you can read the article, talk, and read the chat stream, and respond to it all at the same time.

"goodbye 1", "goodbye 2", "goodbye 3". If you gotta say "goodbye" that many times you wore out your welcome a long time ago

36:18 to be fair I think some social animals have a rough sense of justice too, dogs for example seem to have various ways to correct each other’s behaviours (normally involving biting) and some sort of tolerance and forgiveness for misbehaviour within the “pack” up until a certain point. And we’ve all seen guilty looking dogs before 😅

Even if external dependencies were riddled with unsafe blocks, which I highly doubt, that doesn't automatically mean that code is unsafe, if that were the case then all code in C and C++, and probably quite a few other languages would automatically be unsafe as well.

I personally do not believe in the concept of 'drama' and I find it varies little from the concept of 'stupidity'.

Just an FYI i am 99% sure that any US(some other countries too) trademark also gets rights over domain name by default.

So if you use lld instead of the default linker, it improves things by approximately 10x

That was a lot farther than I would have expected.

unity devs after changing one line and waiting 5 minutes to compile to test:

Can confirm, 2/3 of my house electric bill goes toward compiling serde

I want to share that my incremental compile times are 8 minutes.

I get the incremental complaint, I really do. But very few compiled (none that I know of/use tbh) languages *don't* require an incremental/entire recompile of the project when making a small change. Hell, the linux kernel needs to be entirely recompiled with a whole new f**** symbol table just to add print statement in a subsystem. It is a arguable "plus" of interpreted langs / scripting langs.

Lol the link to the article isnt in the description, I can only assume that this tool asked it to be removed lmaoo

Woah I just checked in on their LSP to see how it was going yesterday then this video drop. Algorithm crazy man.

I wonder why the first half of the article was spent on rust. Justification of the act through bandwagon?

The problem here is that too many lang forums are becoming communities, rather than sources of information and clarity. People are now adopting these langs with some unnecessary expectations. In the event that the language itself used some concerning terminology or the main facets of its ecosystem did as such I can understand ending adoption of the language. Being in a constant state of assessing the community to this degree will likely result in the OP struggling to adopt a language.

11:52 why 2 was?

Vlang SAGA

Wow, that's a lot of emotions in a story. And that's the point, basically it's not about programming at all. And also with that "justice" thing in the story. It's not that important here. Also not the technical difficulties like compile times with the Rust programming which he wrote about. It's really normal when people are very emotional that things they say or write are not always logically fine tuned anymore. I also feel bad for the guy and he is just disappointed how things go, and he is just a really sensitive and honest person with that. Actually, it's often really good to just write things like these out on paper. And then to continue with life after that.

This is just making me want to get into V so far These people aren’t looking for a tool. They are looking for a social group.

Bro didn't want him to be assosicated with this community so much that he wrote a huge article about that that is now seems to be quite popular. What a poser.

Waiting for a DLang video

Interesting conflict emerges from this situation. If a contributor comes to project leaders asking to remove contributions they made, is it ok to refuse? It might even be consequential for a project to remove it since some later work by other contributors might be based off of theirs. Interesting, but I'm taking the side of the V lang author. I believe that since contributing is your own will, you should not expect your work to be treated as your own rights for it, rather as a collaborative effort. Simple analogy would be to ask to refund a donation...

this guy is bat guano

The author is of Stoltman archetype

"null-points" how did he miss that pun.

Dude... just write code. How are people this unhinged over making computer go brr

mr_something123: N-word *(Banned by theprimeagen)* few messages later... LotusPixiee: C-word (CHROOT) LMFAOOOOOO I love this community

The rant was illogical, the actions contradicted what was written, and seriously the entire thing sounds like someone who has zero social skills and a bunch of fed up moderators with too little patience. The writer had a hammer and saw nails everywhere.

Whoever wrote that is one sick puppy...

One of my all time favorite development experiences was doing a desktop app using Lua on a game engine. The game engine did a lot of the heavy lifting on functionality and the Lua language surface area is so tight that there practically zero architectual debate. You just code and quality is what you put in. You can "follow OO" if you want by just passing object reference as the first param and naming consistently. Or just be procedural and architect by naming and splitting code to files as it makes sense.

If the V guy rebased the project and left the file out, I believe this guy would still find something to write about.

Not happy with Rust, not happy with V. Maybe this writer needs to look within. Some people just try to find faults. Just pick a language and build something.

I do agree that you ought to know everything.

I only like Clang drama.

Uh oh, looks like somebody was in his feelies and got his feelies hurt.

You would think this guy would fit just right in to the Rust community.

cant believe i'm not the only one who kinda idly selects stuff and leaves out the first and last letter

Btw it really seems the vlang community does not allow criticism at all and you will be instant banned linking to an article with a deep dive into technical issues and wanting the vlang community insights. If untrue, it was easily debunked, but instead they just deleted the topic and banned the user.

I too don't care for Rust or any of these other "fancy" languages that claim to "save the world". I was on this guy's side, up until the self-own with the discord chat log and everything after that. I understand what the situation is now... The guy is actually nuts.

"If you dont do the thing i want you're putting yourself and others in jeopardy" "I didnt like... Threaten the guy or anything!" Someone needs to learn what threats are