I don't think Sargeras should ever come back. Sargeras worked as a villain because of his simplicity and the restraint in which Blizzard used him. He was just a mega-bad guy who wanted to destory the cosmos to stop the Old Gods/voidlords. But he worked because he was THE mega-bad guy of WoW. We never saw him in any of the games nor did we ever see his true power levels firsthand. He was this big looming threat that was almost unimaginable to the players. The cinematic was a great ending because we didn't get a lot of him, which meant it felt like a big deal when he was on screen, as he literally preyed over Azeroth. He still feels like a villain of unimaginable power, who we couldn't even fight but rather had to merely imprison with the help of the other Titans. Bringing him and Illidan back would only shatter that illusion. He's not a deep or intricate character so seeing him more would only make us see how boring he is. The excitement of Sargeras comes from his role we had of him in our minds as the ultimate villain of WoW, not from his actual presence or motivation.
I agree. He stabbed his sword in the dang planet within half the time he was present. Shows the scale of his power and leaves a lasting memento for us to remember it. Perfect touch. I’m content with where his story lies.
Dude a Xal'Atath + black empire storyline to figure out what the old gods have in store would be such a good expansion, using the caverns of time to travel back and gather information would be banger
I always enjoyed Edwin Van Cleef as the best written villain. I loved that he featured in Beyond the Dark Portal novel which was excellent. He's such an interesting and complex character because you had King Varian that really admired him, and after the second war with the important task of building back Stormwind's fortresses. Before the kings did him dirty he was actually a really good guy so to see him turn on Stormwind was such a crazy thing. I loved it.. Edit: if they ever did a tv series (even like Riot Games has done for Netflix), he would be such a great character to portray. It would feel real and have that believable feeling especially with what is happening in the real world currently with higher powers! I think a lot of people would relate to the uprising against the power that acts as the righteous and lawful.
As alliance i agree with this. If they do a light expansion and Turalyon isn't an enemy we get to kill I say we riot! lol And honestly out of all the alliance big named NPCs he is the most likely one to become a villain for us.
varian totally had that potential, but the botched it. Made him die a meaningless death. Garrosh was great too, varian was basically his alliance counterpart
@@sybald4592 Makes no sense for Turalyon to be an enemy, they haven't shown him doing anything remotely bad, Yrel should be our big bad guy, Turalyon has been a hero that has been hinted for YEARS to make a return and after all his sacrifices, it would just suck and be so cheap to make him a Villian for the sake of a big bad guy.
I think Xal'atath having different goals than the old gods makes the character more interesting it would make it stand out, kinda like how Wrathion stands out compared to other dragons and specially his father.
I want an expansion where we have a final boss that is doing stuff cause they think they are right. When defeated they are not trying to save the universe from a bigger threat. And don't regret shit.
@@garnert6119 Agree. Even after he is being "tortured" or whatver is called he says: "Release me, worm, and I will show you true rage!" "Come to see me suffer, heroes? Too bad. You will never see me break." and in the cinematic: "They said I must answer for my crimes... repent for my "sins".." "But every choice I made, I would proudly make again." "I submit to no one! Not you, not the Jailer, and not that coward Thrall!"
Idk why people see Turalyon as an antagonist for a Light Expansion. He's married to a wife who is the exact opposite of Light, and he's cool with his Undead mentor. He's a hot headed veteran, not some crazy zealot. Speaking of Light, random speculation but what if An'she is part of the Light pantheon?
Because it doesn't have to make sense. It's being obviously telegraphed and would be the perfect excuse for them to narratively unite the Horde and Alliance (for actual realsies this time) because they're doing away with factions basically.
15:23 my dude we were going to kill him but blizz decided to keep him alive because we liked him. They clearly made no plans for him and will just make something up in the future. IMO he will probably be a boss, but not final boss, of a raid in the future. He will probably be working for someone else because that's all danuser knows, always someone pulling the strings.
@@Eggwrath His entire character is still focused around the Shadowlands and the Shadowlands will never escape the reputation of what it has done to the overall franchise. Everything associated with it needs to be purged.
I know, right? With Denathrius being in charge of the “dreadlord cosmic infiltration” conspiracy (and Azshara scheming to seize “the true throne of power”), post-Shadowlands storytelling is very much being set up for intrigue-heavy subplots! (Personally, on another note, I’m still curious/excited/dreading Varitmathras’ warning about the Alliance “thrones running red with betrayal)
I can’t wait for a part two to this. Besides the Vendcar, the demon hunters have there own space ships too. So it would be cool to use one as a base of operations while exploring the unknown side of the planet
Regarding the Devourers, we actually know their purpose. They were basically "made for balance", most likely VIA consuming excess Anima/Ephemera that was out there from the in-between, much like how worms or other decomposers consume excess waste within the cycles of Producer, Consumer, and Decomposer, etc. In regards to the In-between, yeah you're right. That's essentially the primordial Death magics that came from the Zereth's core machinery from the Heart of Eternity.
Is everyone forgetting about Lord Jaraxxus? I know he's not as powerful as KJ, Sargeras, or Archimonde, but he's still a powerful eredar lord. I'm not expecting him to be the main villain of a future xpac, but we never defeated him back in Legion, so he's still out there, possibly reorganizing the remnants of the Legion to either get revenge on Azeroth or attempt to free Sargeras, or just straight up rule the Legion himself.
Honestly Blizzard been talking about the void lords for decades now. I honestly would like to see an expansion about the void lords and why so many people are scared of them.
And let's not forget the most ominous and sinister of them all - The Worse Shit Out There That The Previous Villain Was Trying To Protect The Universe From By Destroying It.
No one can escape the maw... except the maw Walker(player character)... Also except the dreadlords who came and went and shared frostmourne and helm of domination with the legion
I remember when the villains weren't on the scale of destroying worlds and/or all of reality, and actually had personal agency instead of being a puppet in a long line of puppets. At the end of the day I still cared more about Edwin Vancleef's plight against the Stormwind nobles far more than the universe level threats. How many times has Azeroth been threatened with planetary annihilation? More times than I can count. It's been done to death.
Watching these lore videos hit me hard in the nostalgia and i wanna replay this epic world, but then i remember what it has come down to. So many stories, so many things to see. I am surprised though that you didn't mention a very bad road Blizzard can take..and they are very good at taking that road. The spoilery dialogue between Kadghar and Jaina thats comming in the next minipatch makes me think that the guardian is running from certain death. People do bad things in order to survive. Hopefully he will not be cheesed into villainy but Blizzard is 100% capable of doing just that.
I think you forgot to mention the Drust and those witches from BFS. That seemed to be a pretty cool new lore. I certainly, looked pretty cool to say the least.
I think Denathrius just sees Zovaal as another enemy of Death that he can use as a chess piece. If his brothers and sisters ever confronted him, I can actually see him answering the same way Sylvanas did to Garrosh in Silverpine. "What makes you any different than Zovaal, Denathrius?" "Isn't it obvious? I serve Death."
I would definitely want to see more of King Mechagon. Maybe have him salvaged and brought to Gnomeregon by Thermaplug and do a whole "Wrath of the Mech King" type of Expansion. I also think the Defias brotherhood could come back in a big way. You could either introduce a new Vancleef or have Edwin or Vanessa (or both) return from the Shadowlands. Having an entire expansion revolve around them finally launching the Juggernaut and attacking, or even conquering, Stormwind would be pretty cool imo.
Why did Blizzard stopped making side villains like they used to ? You know, things like Murozond in Cata with Deathwing being the main guy. Side villains open up so much more options for them for future expansions
Modern Blizzard is not capable of doing a Light villain properly. Honestly, few ideas interest me less. I’m tired of villains who are misunderstood so a “good guy” who’s really bad is just the same tired story really. It’s not edgy or new. I’d kind of just like to go back to good guys being good and bad guys being bad for a change. Also, Lothraxion actually being evil is a dumb concept. It makes his character 10x less interesting.
I hope the remaining villains do not converge as it always ruins one by not giving them enough time. See how they did Mal'ganis and the Dreadlords dirty.
Uldaz could easily have been cloaked, i mean realisticaly how else would the watchers not know about it, they could regularly teleport and likely had some sort of satelites so yeah, a hidden contient shrouded by forgotten titan technology would fit inside warcraft lore very easily, oh wait it already exists in Pandaria, so a second one is not in the least bit a stretch
i just had to type this out and pause the vid at 10 seconds - warcraft is packed with villans Now - I highly doubt any will get a real story, most will be a patch or whatever quick quick to the next one . The villains of Warcraft are patch content, talked about in a grand scale and ruined Hopes are lost and i personally am so so sad which where the lead writer of the game went . Wow´s real story ended with chris metzen leaving and ending it .
Personally I liked it better when light is simply a tool controlled by the faith someone has in their own actions. So the scarlets could wipe out entire villages with the light not because "The Light" wants them to,but because they are so certain what they are doing is good that they can use the light to do it. I don't want some entity called "The Light" to be a villian no more than I want Fel energy to be a villian. I'd like it more if we face an entity who seeks absolute control and uses the light to do so.
True, some things are better left as amorphous, uncontrollable forces of nature. Have the villain be an agent of that unknowable force, or a user of that force, but not THE force itself. I think Game of Thrones messed this up by making “the night king”. When the ultimate evil is just a guy, instead of something beyond comprehension, it actually shrinks the story in scope instead of increasing it.
I said in my own comment but yeah i pretty much agree, though im not totally against there being some entity the represents light but for me it has to be good if they do that, i like that light gets used for bad but i dont want light its self to be bad, not everything needs to be shades of grey sometimes having a clear good and evil is good
Is it just me or does anyone else get anxious when the interesting villains/character that exist in WoW are brought up because you really don't want Blizzard ruining them like they've done every other character in the game? Seriously Blizz, I saw what you did to N'Zoth, I don't trust you with anything Old God related again
I get the feeling. N'zoth could have been great, if they had ditched the pointless faction war, and made BfA entirely about him and Azshara. Given them the expansion they deserved, and us the "South Seas"- expansion we wanted. Still, Shadowlands was worse, with all the retcons and how they treated Elune.
@@stormstrider1990 I mean, it was heavily forshadowed in BFA we will see both N'zoth and Azshara again in some point in the future "could be" can still be.
For your "How about this" regarding the Elves who sailed to the other side...how about bringing a character that we might know about, but never been in-game? How about between the time of Azshara's ascension to her downfall, Lestharia Vashj, the mother of Lady Vashj, is tasked to sail and expand the Kaldorei Empire. Years after, she is presumed deceased...until now..
This is what happened: People chased the Blizzard name for their resumes and didn't actually care for the games or think their way of playing those games reflected the community. Regardless, there is a massive disconnect between Blizzard today and making games people want to play. They are in decline across all titles. Microsoft would be best served by cleaning house and rehiring most of the organization.
@@autumneagle I thought malfurian already was a villian back in Cata, but that was honestly when my guild disbanded so I didn't see the lore in raids at the time
@@galenkehler nah he's been a goody two shoes since WC3. There was some shenanigans with the Fandral Staghelm who was Malfurian surrogate in vanilla through TBC and WoTLK as a bad guy though but he was so obviously a villain it wasn't funny
The BEST stories are 'small'. Personal. Meaningful. The Mega-huge crazy stuff is just... hollow. If, in this next xPac, we could see something lke the halfhill personal relationships with NPCs around our world, it'd be so much more meaningful than *BRAVELY GALAVANTING INTO EPIC BATTLE* for the umpteenth time against *( insert eponymous existential threat )*
Ironically the best quest in shadowlands doesnt take place in the shadowlands imo it was that kyrian quest where you played as the guy in redridge trying to protect his family from the undead invasion
The best expansions set small, personal stories in a massive context. It is, after all, an MMO. What you describe is good for quests and dungeons, but small stories don't get armies and raid groups moving.
Issue is that the entire Warcraft universe now has a Jailer stink all over it. If we were able to beat him in his empowered state without much of a problem, how am I supposed to think these other villains actually present a threat?
Saying that the Jailer left his stink everywhere isn't something I agree with. He's just been in the Maw. So what if the dreadlords were agents of him? that doesn't change any old lore or spoil anything. The Jailer has no impact on anything outside of the Shadowlands except manipulating people
The way I see it is he was dormant till Shadowlands and now is gone just like Shadowlands. Otherwise if I view it any other way it just gets me mad. Fuck it if it isn't "cannon" 🤣
so I wish for a big reset like FF14. What happens that resets everything. That we fight and lie to each other and conspire and war and seizures of power take place on one planet. At most an invasion from another planet but only by mortal beings. see BC or to share WoD. No gods or super gods or immortal beings.
If you want alliance villains they could expand on the nobles of Stormwind - show that they have secretly been profiting from the wars between alliance and horde and then show they have dreadlords or evil dragons or old gods in their ranks
Turalyon’s rise to becoming Stormwind’s Regent was vocally supported by the House of Nobles, and coincidentally, he has a lightforged BFF dreadlord advisor named Lothraxion (who may still be on Denathrius’ payroll, given how Shadowlands revealed the “dreadlords have infiltrated every cosmic faction” conspiracy). Yeah, I’d say you’re on the right track here!
Maybe have surviving royalty/nobles from the fallen Alterac kingdom up to some mischief while trying to reclaim their homeland. Maybe the syndicate teams up with the south sea pirates and venture company and all kinds of other evil rogue like groups.
Yrel would have had good character if they didn’t cut her Ark thanks for all the people who complained that she shouldn’t have a relationship I can’t stand SJW ruining things. And the raid bc blizz management sucks in the developers just don’t seem to get things done
00:01. Ok prediction time. The threats left for a big bad are: light v void, dragon, light v void, alliance going warhawk, light v void, other side of azeroth, light v void, zalatath, light v void, naga, light v void, old gods returning, light v void. Oh and then there is that corrupted light story beat they had in legion/bfa.
I'm honestly hoping it is a light vs void sort of deal. I can see such an event damaging the universe in many ways. While it seems like the Devourers are being pushed as the Big Big Bad, I'm really hoping it's not them. They're still newly introduced, and I doubt many players at all really care about them. That, and it almost feels like they're filling in the role of the void.
Its so cliche how what is known for being good is being treated as evil and what was evil is now "possibly good". Like can light just be the old stereotype of being good for once instead of pandering to the edgy?
I am really hoping for an Cinematic porting from Oribos to SW or Org when we realize that the world that we thought we were going to has been massively changed. Like “hey, while you were away in the shadowlands, this has actually been what’s been going on!” Sort of situation.
Either going back in time, or finding more lost places within Azeroth, I wish we could bring into the game's story some of the characters we have had little or no interaction with. Sintharia, for instance. She was every bit as evil as Deathwing, if not moreso. Chromatus, whom I don't believe had an in-game appearance but could cause a LOT of trouble. Med'an. Medivh. Another old god that might not have been mentioned. An entirely new dragonflight with a truly unique look and elemental power (or holy? Holy dragons??????)
Why the number 7 is special? Biblical scholars point out that the number seven is quite significant in the Bible. In the creation story, God made the world in six days and rested on the seventh day. Scholars have found that the number seven often represents perfection or completeness in the Bible. In Judaism, there are seven heavens.
Only "big" one left out I can think of would have to be Magatha Grimtotem. Sure she joined up with the Shaman order hall in legion but it was always just to not let the Doomstone out of her sight, not to actually join forces. It's just a matter of time before she slinks off from there with it in tow, giving her the power-up mcguffin needed to turn her defeat streak around. She's been with us and working against the horde from the inside since vanilla and has a faction leader on her list of kills, not many who get to do that and live to tell the tale. An actual master of manipulation who, while she doesn't always succeed in her plans, always manages to get out of any trouble alive. She might not be expansion lead big but put her in the advisor role of another, a role she takes to like a fish to water. She can certainly she what Vashj and Kael were to Illidan i TBC or with one or two pre-expansion cinematics what Gul'dan was for WoD/Legion
I dont want the light to be bad, if they do that it will take away the last shred of respect i have for blizz, i like the idea of people using the light for bad but not light its self being bad
I swear if blizzard pulls ANOTHER "Here's the REAL villain...meet Bobo the hermit crab that planned on us killing the Jailer all along because...", I'm gonna punch hazikostas in the dick.
I always argue that the CoT should be getting content almost every expansion. Gotta help the Bronze DF keep time flowing correctly. It's great for lore and doesn't have to be connected to the Xpac story.
Modern WoW dragons looks so bad. Why do they have such massive glowing chins? Look up Classic dragons and try tell me they don't look better without lying. The current dragons look stupid as hell
Out of villains? no. Out of charity from their players from them being absolute shit until they need to hit a "oh shit" button when people are sick of their shitty mobile game chores? Who knows. I'm done with their shit until they can make the game not feel like a mmo with mobile game chores. I'm sick of playing the game. I love old blizzard. New blizzard feels like EA/DICE BF 2042 release.
Okay, you need to get off the Devourer train. They are a known entity. They are native to the In-Between, not something from beyond the cosmos. We are told they once had a purpose, when we unlock the ability to talk to the Jiro. They are not the next big threat.
Devourers are a prime example of a "force of nature" evil. No 5D chess bigbrain multiverse plans, no retcons needed, no rationalization, no motivations beyond to just devour. One clear direct, one unstoppable force, no big bad villain controlling them with cheesy dialogue, just pure unadulterated hive mind killers from an upside down like world, in between. It's like a bunch of demigorgons or zerg. Perfection.
The Sporemounds. The vines! Mindcontrolling infestations. I really don't think it's random that the automa in the southern catalyst area of Zereth Mortis is more or less completely infested. The Everbloom was infested in WoD. That dungeon and the zone of Gorgrond had huge genesaur creatures. And where else did we see one? Walking around at the bottom during the Eonar encounter? Elunaria! And Aggramar drops a [Sporemound Seedling]. A life relic. So why are they present in Zereth Mortis? Blizzard is clearly planting ...the seed... for something. 😅
I would most of all like to see something like MoP. A mostly standalone world with a closed story arch. Otherwise... I would really love to see the Alliance be the big bad for once, we've had some terrible warchiefs, but all the Alliance done was just be equally terrible during arms races... A threat focussed around the Light could make the Alliance into the big bad for once
You and your team do a great job keeping the lore really active. Appreciate the work I watch yaw every time you post content. Good job Belluar and Matt.
Interesting. It's always fun to look back and yet forward at the same time. Time. You brought up the bronze dragon flight. Here's a twist for your knickers: we've been in the Shadowlands. In the maw. We've seen things almost dissolve (outside of the lava stuff), we've seen them pretty much explode. And the Maw is a pretty nasty place to be and we don't know what all grows in that rock and dust. We go, save Azeroth and Anduin (there's still a PTSD story with him I'm seeing, along with Turalyon's butt in that throne in Stormwind.) We have come back (or will) to Azeroth up top, and we're going to be mixing with the populace again. What's to say that we didn't bring back a pathogen that will effect, let's say, dragons. It drains their ability to see the good, just doing bad. And what happens if Chromie gets it? Screws up timelines to the point that we are popping all over the place. Talk about being able to re-use all the past places. One day you're in Deadmines, the next you're in Azuremyst fighting off Deathwing's Cataclysm. You think you're coming on to finish up the new quests in Ungoro Crater but instead you're in Ulduar. It's a RNG free-for-all where we're doing everything but in radical orders. You have to finish up the quests with Chromie and the Bronze Dragon Flight to be able to pull it back into regular time. Of course, Chromie fights us, we keep running into the rogues in Bronze flight. She and the others have lost their minds due to the infection and even Alexstraza is having trouble figuring out what to do. Alchemy doing potions to try to stave off the infection from spreading to the rest of the population of Azeroth but the thing is spreading (slowly, not like the zombie plague of Burning Crusade.) See the problems, and the fact that anyone (mainly the dragonflights) can become the enemy and we have no idea who is next. Yep, old characters, old raid/dungeon/areas with new content.
I am curious to know about the Fel side of things, clearly they wouldn't of let a Titan of Order just waltz in and take away their own to make his Legion, so what happened there? Overall did get a tiny spark from this video, since the Nzoth ending and now Zovaal "planned" everything just killed the lore for me since, its hard to really feel any intrigue for wow lore.
Ion said in the past: The fate of each and every wow villain is to eventually get defeated/killed by us. He said this in an old interview about n'zoth.
WoW low key setting up our most precious "villians" to take over as the next gods of each cosmic power. Illidan - fel. Azshara - void. Khadgar - Death. Medivh - Order. Etc
I like more personal stories more than grand-scale stories. The story is just keep getting bigger and bigger, but our growth is exactly the same as we was in Wrath of the Lich King. We still need to run errands, we still need to farm reputation while being widely known and held the title of "Hero". I would rather be an adventurer than a hero.
