The Watch Industry NEEDS TO CHANGE! Patek Philippe vs JLC? 

JLC is a company that puts SOOO much work into their watches for the credit they get. For example in 2020 when they introduced the 4 face, 30 complication Hybris Reverso - they were completely overshadowed by Rolex releasing OPs in blue, red and yellow.

There's a different reason why JLC 'lags' behind the other three. It's because JLC is liked, bought, worn and appreciated mainly by Quiet People, whereas the others are targeted more towards Loud People.

I love JLC. It's a really classy watch that you can wear everyday without the everyday fear of being mugged of your Patek and financially ruined.

All I know is JLC is a spectacular watchmaker. I’ve owned and daily-wore a Geophysic 1958 limited edition for years and it has been a beautiful workhorse. Give me a JLC any day!

Thanks for your honesty Fed. You’re the only You Tuber being honest about the problems in the industry. Thanks for highlighting these issues. Completely agree. Hope they’re listening. Cheers

Yes, AD’s need training. I drove 2 hours to look at and try on the Nomos Ahoi. When I walked in the store and mentioned the brand “Nomos,” the lady immediately said “Nomos watches are 7% off and that is non negotiable.” I was not even standing in front of the Nomos section. I had not even laid eyes on one nor tried one on. Even car salesmen have you drive the car first. It was just a total turn off, and not a great discount.

I visited my local JLC boutique this last weekend. Wonderful people, and stunning watches. My takeaway was the dials had amazing detail, but the writing was just too small for me to appreciate with my aging vision.

I think my new favorite summer sports watch is my JLC Polaris Date green dial. One of the most comfortable watches I have ever worn and the dial is insane in the sunlight.

The point on in house movements is hugely important and at times feels like beating a dead horse, but the industry just won’t listen. On the flip side, if a movement starts as an off the shelf ETA or whatever, but the watchmaker makes modifications to it, I want to know specifics! People dismiss these types of movements as well because often they’re just putting on a custom rotor and calling it a day, and that’s fair. However, if you’re replacing the balance or modifying the escapement or anything more extensive, I want to know that too!

Fed’s blood pressure goes up 15 points when he’s on a roll. Agree with sentiments that this video is terrific. JLC’s value proposition is near unbeatable for the timeless class, craftsmanship, engineering und understated elegance. The Master Calendar does it all.

One of Fed's best vids. As so many say: Thank you for your honesty, Fed!

Really agree on transparency in the watch industry, this is also a huge issue on where parts are sourced and produced. For some it may not matter but for others, when buying expensive luxury goods, we want to know. Some brands are very honest about this and others good luck getting a strait answer.

Completely agree on the Breguet Grand Feu, the blue dial is incredible

100% on point regarding the folly of AR coating on the outside of the crystal

Bravo Frederico! In the world of horology, where watches go for enormous prices, the customer needs to be assured that the claims made by these watchmakers to justify the exorbitant price actually mean something. Without agreed upon definitions, and a culture of transparency, the customer can have no confidence that the product they are purchasing will be worth it. Ultimately, such an environment that doesn't have clearly defined standards and refuses to disclose quality indicators to the public, works to the detriment of watch market.

I think its a great idea for a set of standards and transparency. This approach has worked well for France, in a lot of categories like drinks, foods, and gourmet things that can then command a premium price. The Swiss watch industry needs some standardization of terminology, precise definition on terms like in-house movements and such.

Since both JLC and VC are both in the same ownership group, JLC will not be in the same “tier” as VC since then the company would be competing with itself. JLC is meant to serve a lower end of the market than VC, which is absolutely fine. IMO, these two brands are both the best or at least tied for best within their respective market segments.

Fed, you were stuttering a lot during the JLC convo. JLC is King!

Fed- we have the right to buy a product or not. I also want more transparency but we do not have the "right" to know a brands internal info or what's in a watch or how it's built. But again~ if we want to know this info and the brand won't provide it... then don't buy it. And if we as the consumers demand transparency en masse prior to purchase from reluctant brands, then a brand folds from lack of sales. Perhaps we should be coaching consumers rather than demanding companies to change their ways. There is still some serious coaching needed regarding Rolex and PP. BTW~ you DO indeed, coach very well. I appreciate your good work.

I would agree, that JLC, for a significant part, offers watches at a different price point. That being said, I think you get a lot for the money spent (owning a Reverso Duoface myself) for a JLC timepiece for example. And at the end of the day, you have a good chance of actually obtaining a timepiece. Patek/AP/Breguet/Vacheron, etc. have their own clientele, who is able and willing to spend a lot more for a watch. So, it isn‘t an either/or, but very different market segments. Great video, Federico.

You sir have one of the best views of watchs on the tube if not the best and have the right view of our love

The JLC Master SECTOR DIAL is the prettiest and classiest watch under $15,000 you can buy, IMO. It's my next watch if I can find one. Are these limited run?

I get the point about not putting AR coating on the outside. I've had my Seamaster 300M for almost two years and have yet the scratch the coating. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I wear that watch a lot and so far so good. Great video Fed!

Some good points well made their Fed. I really hate it when you know more than the staff, and it’s not just watches either!

Love these little talks. Newbie here so seeing and hearing about everything is very interesting. Thankyou!!

Fired up Fed is my favorite Fed

JLC haven’t embraced movement decoration on their main product line. My GS White birch is more nicely decorated. Still got love for JLC though and own a Reverso.

Really enjoyed this video, the passion you showed towards the end about the industry was clear. I even think you reigned yourself in a bit.

As usual, great content, thank you Federico. On the other hand, can someone please explain to me why Patek, using more "hand finishing" (read "manual labor") to polish the movements (some of them built by JC), is "higher" than JLC, which uses intellect and engineering knowledge to build a superior movements? What is more important: a manual labor or knowledge? From what I hear, it seems that the watch connoisseurs in the XXI century (sic!) prefer the former.

Productive as always Fred.

Wempe is a fantastic AD. I've bought from them a few times, always first class.

Absolute fantastic vid, Federico.

Love Federico's honesty and the suggestions on how the watch industry can make improvements. The anti-reflective coating is important and makes sense to just use it inside the crystal. I also am putting the JLC Master Calendar on my list after Fed's review. The cost to feature ratio makes sense. Question for those who own a JLC, do they hold their value?

I challenge you to look at the finishing of a JLC then a Patek. Then ask yourself why your Patek is only 30m water resistant when most JLCs are 50m. Then ask yourself why VC, Patek and AP all used their movements? Its kinda obvious after thar

I fully agree with the necessity to clarify the in-house movements as too many brands are concealing non in-house movements behind decorations, branding and finishings. With regards to the AR coating, I have some IWC watches with AR coating on both sides of the crystal and none were scratched. I owned these watches since 2005 and 2006 and the later is the watch I wore daily until last year… One thing though; I always wear long sleeves which do protect my watches from most direct potential impacts. So AR coating on the exterior face of the crystal needs a conscious wearer who will not bang his watch… Now, some diving watches have AR on the exterior side of the crystal but is the AR coating so compatible with long contact with water ? 🤔

What a great point on the openness of the industry. Well done.

A lot of JLC's current movements, while "in-house" are mostly machine made and finished and resemble the shared movements used across Richemont brands and designed by Val Fleurier.

Very good honest episode, thank you ! People and companies play too many games, thanks for calling out bad and borderline illegal activity !

Totally agree about the stupidity of AR coating on the outside.

One of your best Q&As…..thanks!

Yet another great video, Fed, I appreciate your opinions and your honesty.

Great video. ON the question what you would like to have changed. I totally agree with your answers. Very good content for the questions asked. Good job.

The Breguet Classique 7147 is my endgame watch! Nice choice Fed. It may not be my grail a, Philippe Dufour Simplicity, but the 7147 is pretty close.

Good questions today. And of course informative answers

Totaly agree on the efficiency of some AD....l actually didn t buy a IWC just because of that. From the welcome to the obvious lack of knowledges about the watch l was interested with ( l actually knew more than he did) , plus! I had to wait outside on the line, when there were not more than 3 ppls looking around at watches.. Ridiculous ,the chop is huge ( flagship in the UAE) with more 'sells persons" than client🤷‍♂️

Thank you Federico !! Great Video, Great talks(teaches us) watches !!!

Yes (!!!) to more honesty and transparency about movements, and YES to better ADs...

My definition of in house movement is a movement that was designed and tested by the brand. Where it's made doesn't really matter as that will fall under the made in "x" rules.

Right on today! Just lined 'em up and knocked 'em down.

I realy dont like when watches are made with hands with the same colors then the dial no contrast very hard to read the time. I dont recall how many watches I could have purchase but because of hands and dial same color it was a no go for me.

You’re right! Almost all other industries are protecting many of their labels, so why not the watch industry?

Love your Moser!

For the sake of economy of scale, most manufacturers should revert to the old method of buying movements. Tudors with the ETA or SW200s offer great value compared to the Kenissi or Breitling movement watches and no dodgy date wheels on the cheaper movements either.

thanks as always fun and informative!

Why does JLC use a IWC modular movement for their calendar complication ?

Wearing my Reverso with pride

Fine vid as always Fed! Thanks

Yes, close the Rolex AD in Markham, Ontario, Canada. Crooks…they sell hot models to gray market dealer.

JLC Duometre probably gets close to (or passes)… the trinity brands

I follow you religiously. Magnifico lavoro

Which watches DONT put AR coating on the top?

Maybe, and I say maybe, only patek is better than JLC but I’m not sure even with patek. I think they’re more or less on the same level

If you think any JLC doesn’t stand up to the finishing of any AP your insane

🔥🔥🔥🔥 A known base calibre is what we all need. I want the watch, now I don't want it cause maybe I can't service meanwhile its an ETA

So much respect to you bud!

I guess when you start your collection (2nd watch) with an $80 Seiko that uses an inhouse movement, the term has a lot less meaning and cachet.

great comment on movements

I just snagged the Cartier Santos, my first experience with the brand and so excited!

Always like your channel. Btw I just unsubscribed watchfinder. Their Rolecks BS is putting so many ppl off.

Love the orange strap!

Tell us how you REALLY FEEL ! Love you man , what’s the maintenance on J.L.C. master compressor Memovox like ??? I’m looking into one +20 years old #1 condition

Great video Fed.

For me, people in the community need to stop obsessing about really basic or inconsequential things like lume, ceramic bezel or sapphire crystals like they’re revolutionary life changing necessities. Lume is not that important- let’s not pretend any of us need it for anything more than social media posts. Ceramic bezels are fine if you like them- but aluminium and steel bezels worked well for decades and are cheap to replace if you don’t like it fading after a decade or 2. They don’t fade overnight just because some brands use ceramic now. In-house movements are good for some watches but for a daily simple 3 hand watch it’s not that important when there are loads of great simple and easy to repair/service watch movements already. Sapphire Crystal is good, mineral crystal can also be good. Sapphire doesn’t crack and shatter easily and acrylic can be easily polished. They’re both fine. People nowadays so often seem determined to badmouth other watches based on trivialities. Let’s not forget that watches are pretty much unnecessary in reality and we all like them but lume, ceramic and sapphire are not important or expensive enough to justify us making a song and dance about!

As an engineer I have to buy a lot of equipment. When a supplier doesn't want to specify to me how and where things are built internally I would never do business with them.

Hey Fed, Great content as usual! Thank you. I have been a collector for a very long time. What do you think of Ebel? I had owned an Ebel 1911 in the 90’s. It was a respected brand back then in Europe. I recently stumbled upon an Ebel Sport Classic on a leather strap. The case finish is great. It looks like it is using a decorated Selitta movement. I bought it because it was highly discounted and found out that I really enjoy wearing it. Why are people not talking about Ebel? I can’t seem to find much about them. My apologies in advance, if this is not the place to ask such a question. I really respect your opinion. Thank you. ￥ EBEL

Keep up the great content

Had a recent experience where I was educating my local Grand Seiko AD. Didn’t mind doing so at all as the salesman was keen to hear what I’d to say. He was also upfront about how poorly GS market themselves. GS could have much stronger selling points based on their exceptional craftsmanship, especially at their price point, I’d they’d only make effort to publish that information. In talking to the AD I was amazed at how many more fine GS craftsmanship details I was able to point out to him that he was totally unaware off. Many of these might be too small to bother listing in marketing details - but when selling a watch they make for a great story. At my local AD a salesperson could point out tiny detail after detail where GS craftsman ship is much better than similarly priced Tudor, IWC, Longine (remember GS start under $2.5k) and even Omegas’. I’m not saying that makes those other brands bad watches or even poor value. It’s just a selling point that GS has over those brands that they’re not taking advantage of. All they need is to provide ADs with a cheat sheet of talking points. There’s a lot of boring details they might not want front and center in their marketing campaigns. Anyway, thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

The public knowing the movement can lead to more counterfeit watches out there.

Love these vids Fed but damn they are way too short.

JLC Master Geographic

Thank you

Great video ⌚️

Angry Fed! I love it!

Don’t agree with “no AR outside”. It doeas look great as you admitted and I love it. I think it should be customer’s choiice whether it’s ok to risk scratching or not. I do take this risk into consideration and strongly prefer double AR glasses. In fact I have tried inside AR ones a few times, could never stand still high reflections from outside. I can’t imagine for instance the Omega SMP with reflective glass that would not allow to ppreciate fully the glossy ceramic dial. Apparently I had the NTTD version with matt dial and no outside AR, could not live with seeing all the reflections on the glass.

Reverso hard to find??? Are you sure?? They wanted to sell me this some months ago...

Good stuff on ADs. The reason I don’t own a Rolex!

Is it ever not summer in Miami?

JLC is the working class mans PP. Same quality internally, but a bit less finished and prestige.

In house means you make everything including the glass !

It's not sneaky to hide the details of their 'in house movement', it's low level fraud. Calling a movement "in house" when it's off the shelf with a minor adjustment to it. Fraud is a much more appropriate appraisal of the situation.

I love AR coating and HATE reflections, especially on dark dials. Don’t bang the shit out of your watch and boom! Problem Solved 😊

Fed funny af🙋🏻

Wempe a reputable dealer is a very questionable statement I'm sorry to say! I have personally handled many grey market pieces that came from the same Wempe store in the EU via the same customer. Good CS and aftersales maybe but totally reputable mmmmm!!

Fed love your content but I totally disagree with the AR coating issue I would not buy my Breitling if it didn’t have antireflective coating on both sides I think it’s the most coolest thing on my watch to see through affect is so great I wish that other companies also did this. I personally cannot buy a watch that does not have AR coating on both sides and that’s only because I bought my Breitling watch and now every other Crystal looks like junk.

Bad quality watch dealers? Want to talk about car dealers?

watch industry changes . but the change comes from the far east . GS and CREDOR show the way .

Porsche does not tell you what parts are oit of Germany, out of Hungary...or even out of China, but then you buy German engineering right?

Spot on as always champ. If you ever going to take advice on watch related stuff look no further.

Federico: Sorry folks I’ve been away… (So has my razor)

Doublecoating for the win. People take care of your pieces.