The Westland Welkin; Whirlwind’s High Flying Sibling 

NASA still flies the Canberra, last I checked

The Junkers high altitude diesels should be a topic for a video as well. Or maybe the entire Ju-86 series

Nice to see more ancestry for the English Electric Canberra - a version of which is *still* in service with NASA. The Welkin's designer did good work. The Canberra was license-built by Martin Aircraft in the US. A version was developed as a reconnaissance aircraft, the WB-57F. This has a very wide wingspan. Three have been used by NASA for years for a range of duties and are now used for photographing high-priority launches such as crewed spacecraft and their reentries. Its military service life was extended into at least 2011. The Air Force borrowed one from NASA to test a new sensor suite over Afghanistan.

The wingspan looks massive

What is there to say other than the usual : Awesome video ! Never heard of this plane yet it was such a fascinating story ! I hope Ed's non aircraft videos get as much notice as these, the quality of this channel cannot be overstated !

❤️ the look of the Welkin & Whirlwind! Thank you for this one Ed 🥰

Great video! I knew of the Westland Whirlwind, built an Airfix model back in the day, not the Welkin. One of those 'odd bombs' dropped by a JU 86 was dropped on Bristol, it hit a car with a full tank, which must have been a rarity back then. The resultant conflagration spread to a bus and caused considerable loss of life.

The name “welkin” has an interesting meaning- well worth looking up. Thanks Ed for another great video 👍

Nice one Ed. I already knew quite a bit about the Welkin as my father built a model of one of these back in the 70s as he'd seen them flying during WWII so I naturally took an interest of my own. The kit was vacuum formed (by a manufacturer called Contrail) and incredibly basic, requiring hours of cutting, sanding and filling. My Father's still with us and this is one of the things he still remembers doing so I'm going to build the modern equivalent by CMR (not a vacform thankfully) to keep with tradition.

Another great video Ed! - It's worth mentioning that Petter helped George Carter of Glosters with the design of the pressurised cockpit of the Meteor jet. Ironic, because the Meteor was another reason why the Welkin was no longer needed - it had excellent high-altitude performance and could climb to height a lot faster than the Welkin. Post-war all the experience Westland had built up developing high-altitude technology was separated off into the "Normalair" Company

What the dickens? What a beauty! Never come across this weird aeroplane before and would like to say thanks for the heads-up!

Welkin is noticable close to the german word Wolke, meaning cloud as well.

It has to be best part of 60 years ago, but I definitely remember a great Biggles story about trying to catch a high-altitude intruder! It was probably in a stripped-down Spit though - much more Capt. Bigglesworth's style.

I always love British twin engine fighters, elegant looking beasts. This must’ve been a stepping stone in the Hornet’s development.

Can we (again) just stop to admire the Whirlwind's perfect shapes?

Another super video, thanks Ed.

Excellent video, Ed. Thanks.

Your videos are excellent.

Brilliant. Thank you, Mr. Nash.

I always thought that a Whirlwind powered the Bristol Taurus would have been really interesting.. It would have made a really good low altitude strike fighter and wouldn't need Merlins.

You've done it again, Ed. I knew nothing of this before. Thank you. ☮

Great video again! Excellent point re the 44,000 ft interception by a high flying Spitfire. A perfect outcome really, with the German crew making it home to tell the tale.

Great stuff! Best vid on the little-known Welkin that I've seen.

The Welkin, though meant for a different role, reminds me of the F7F Tigercat. Both were potential speed demons with all that HP.

_"Tobogganing down a flight of stairs on a tea tray."_ -- Harold Penrose, Westland Test Pilot That may be the _MOST BRITISH DESCRIPTION_ that I have ever read...🤭

Very interesting. Thanks for your efforts and for posting.

Another fascinating video Ed!

Always thought this was an interesting and good looking aircraft. Thanks for the post.

I'd never heard of the Welkin Ed. Excellent video, lot's of interesting info. Thanks a lot.

Thanks Mr Ed Nash Shoe🇺🇸

Yet another excellent upload and regarding another aircraft I did not know . Thanks .

Funny thing is germans DID show up at high altitude in 1945 over Britain again, but with Arado 234 jets which probably were just too fast for Welkins to intercept

Another excellent video. I learned a few things-Thanks!

Thanks. Well done.

What a splendid vid of an aircraft that has fascinated me since childhood. T very much FP.

Hi Ed . Another scoop ! I did know about this aircraft and it's over long gestation but as always you came up with facts l didn't know ! It was indeed the Spitfire incident that ended these very high level intrusions . I do know that one of the cannon jammed so as soon as the remaining cannon fired the pilot couldn't control the aircraft , but at lleast one round struck the enemy . Thanks Ed.

Never knew any of this. Marvellous viewing. Thanks from the old Aussie.

Ed, I'm sure you are well aware of the high flying Spitfire pilot that engaged the JU-86R, Prince Emanuel Galitzine. However, it is worth noting that his light blue high altitude camouflage is available in War Thunder as a skin on the MK. IX. It's pretty cool, always a favorite story of mine. Wasn't aware of the Welkin's development, thanks for the video.

No idea how I missed this video ----- but I'm here now.

Just a note regarding the relevant aerodynamics - compressibility comes from Mach number, not airspeed or groundspeed. Because Mach varies with altitude (same actual speed over the ground equals higher mach at higher altitude due to temperature changes), you get compressibility "earlier" at higher altitude. Meanwhile, the same true speed "looks like" lower airspeed to a wing at higher altitudes, because the lower density air provides less lift (and less drag) for a given airspeed. This leads to a "coffin corner" where the aircraft needs to fly faster in order to maintain lift, yet adding any speed causes mach limit issues. That "coffin corner," where those lines converge, is often the reason for an aircraft's ceiling. High aspect (long and slender) wings help with the lift part, but if materials requirements mean they have to be extra chunky, the compressibility gets worse. Just 15 or so years later, the U-2 would use extremely long, thing, and NON-chunky wings to get its coffin corner up to ~80k feet.

Very interesting that it was better for the Allies that the Ju-86 made it back to let the Luftwaffe know that the jig was up. Had it been shot down it could have been explained as another cause.

Nice presentation thanks

Thanks..I looked at the photos of the Welkin and thought "Hornet"....

With regard to the English Electric Canberra. I have seen one on static display many times, and what I found most remarkable, was how tiny the aircraft is.

The interesting thing about such high-altitude, pressurised aircraft like the Junkers, is that the Welkins wouldn't have even needed to actually shoot them down on their own. All they would've needed to do was compromise the pressurisation. This would force the Junkers down to an altitude that normal fighters could reach.

Love your work. You almost got me to appreciate the Welkin but I really have a problem with seafood. Plus you will never ever be able to sway my perpetual adoration away from the most perfect looking plane of ww2 the Whirlwind.

A really elegant aircraft - like most of Teddy Petter's designs. Surprising that one or two weren't kept on post-war at Farnborough or Boscombe Down to continue investigation into high altitude flight and compressibility.

Several of the Welkin photos show the aircraft using engines with the same anti-clockwise (from front) rotating propellers. Checkout time point 6.10 for example. A very informative video.......well done Ed.

Gold! Another triumph!

Excellent.

Very good overview.

Fascinating story of a little known British aircraft. Thankyou!

Be cool to have a collaborative with Greg’s aircraft..Ed

Glad to see somebody cover this important but forgotten transitional aircraft.

There's a project that is trying to build a Whirlwind from scratch.

The Welkin is a good looking plane and it's design wasn't for nothing, as it led to the English Electric Canberra, a great plane for the UK and the US.

Thanks for the knowledge on a little known aircraft.

Lovely clean design, typical of Teddy Petter.

Thanks!

The Brits had such cool names for their aircraft.

The Brits had the best looking twin prop planes....The Whirwind just HAD to be great. It looked like it.

A great interesting video and a beautiful airplane I have never heard of. What about the P61 Black Widow?Have a good one Mr.Felton.

Fascinating.

What was the purpose of the appendage aft or the fin? Was there an installation in it or purely aerodynamic?

I wonder why they didn't just try to make the nose one engine if they couldn't get a good beam to chord number? They had to have known about the success of the ta 152 right? Well maybe not. They needed two engines with a much weaker engine but that wasn't an issue with the griffon, so I wonder. You could see those wings were too thick though, too bad, looked pretty cool.

Oh thanks a lot , now i have to look up if its the short or long ironing board variants of the B26.

wow me first, also kool plane, vary interesting

I remember reading about this aircraft on wikipedia many moons ago.

Interesting aircraft, never knew of this one. Please do one on the Hornet/Sea Hornet

An interesting video. I remember reading somewhere of another "snag" at extreme altitude, where the speed of sound is slower and lift from the thin atmosphere less. Due to the span, in a turn the inner wing could stall and the outer wing, travelling faster, approach the speed of sound.. ?? ???

I hope examples of this aircraft are on display, as the excuse of rain damage can't be used with these.

One minor correction the word welkin comes from not old but middle English being first used in the 1100's so probably a Norman import as it comes originally from Old High German(like most of the so called English language)

When you positively, absolutelym have to get to altitude overnight. UK Ex. Now with more cannon!

...A 1/48 scale kit of this would be great...

Odd that they didn't think that they could have swapped out the cannon tray for one with cameras and convert them into high-altitude photo recon aircraft. Or would that be too ironic?

I do know about the Welkin but it was a fairly brief mention which lacked your details.

May we have the DeHavilland Hornet and Sea Hornet please?

What notable aircraft you manage to dig up, Ed.

Fascinating aeroplanes.

Hi Ed, i can´t see this plane without remember the I Ae. 30 Ñancú, an Argentinian prototype equipped with two Merlins. I am sure you know what i am talking about, right?

Long winged Hornet....

Surprising it wasn’t employed for reconnaissance or leaflet drops or something of that nature

This reminds me alot of the BV 155

I think Kelly Johnson took inspiration for the u2 from this airplane

There's a pub in Liverpool,part of Sir JD Neverspoon's empire, called the Welkin but I'm not sure what it's named after?

Also, NORMALAIR was a Westland Subsidiary that went on to make Aircraft pressurisation equipment - that was then taken over by Garrett and then Honeywell.

Ahhhhhhhh I was going to say they are all piston Canberra's. The Vickers submission for the requirement even has a Canberra type rounded nose and bubble canopy! Great vid!

In my opinion it's a very pretty and damned impressive aircraft. I would like to see them have a chance to work out the compressibility issue.

LOL...Tobogganing down the stairs...being British I fully understand what this means and then also understand what is being said/explained but I love the thought of the offical report having this and all the engineers, desingers etc...going "hmm yes", (nodding heads) as is just plain, simple and to the point. No..."the Y axis reacted in X way during B manouvre etc etc". A few words can easily replace a paragragh and have more impact in a very British way :)

I find it interesting that the Air Ministry specified Left-And-Right turning Merlins -- after insisting that Lockheed build them P-38s with Right-hand-only rotation in their Lightning I export order. I guess they wised up.

A turbo-prop Whirlwind, sporting a nice pair of PT6's could have been a useful tool . . . 'Time' is so cruel : ) (Although, Britain's corner shops may well have run low on cans of 'Esso Blue' & 'Pink Paraffin' as a result)

didnt it also have a very narrow spped range at high alt because of the shock and high incidence stall?

Im starting to think Britain scrapped 20 % of all aircraft made

Welkin ? Who dreamed up that sexy name ?

"Welkin"? Give me strength. Whelk? Winkle? Westland Foreskin?

Wasn't it suitable for reconnaisance itself? (As I write this I'm guessing range might have been an issue)

Was it not the changing of the Whirlwind props from the initial design choice that cocked everything on the engines

I always hear about "slow roll rate" of high-altitude airplanes, but it doesn't apply at high altitudes, rather the opposite is the case. The P47 is an example, deemed "un maneuverable" for its low-altitude performance, it could fly circles around virtually anything above ~25,000ft.

OK, I understand and accept the compressibility issues; but just as the rate of roll issues, so what? The a/c was not going to be diving down on the prey; it was just up there to retain control of the higher altitudes.

I've read the Welkin was used for experimental liquid oxygen engine trials. Are there any facts/ results /reports on this? Obviously since no one continued the research it wasn't that successful; still intrigued.