The WORD BEARERS Legion in the HORUS HERESY | Legion XVII: Origins | Warhammer Lore 

Malcador: "Hey, Bro Emperor, These Word Bearers sure do seem pissed that the Ultramarines bombed their city. Maybe we should go easy on them when we meet?" Emperor: "Naa, let me just get them all to kneel in the ashes for a bit. Roboute, you good to watch while I make your brother ashamed?" Guiliman: *STARES IN TACITURN* Emperor: "It's settled then! Good Talk everyone."

Its behaviours like the Big-E did to Lorgar and Angry Ron that make me appreciate Bruva Alphabusa's latest project so much. Big-D is Emps in the 20th century, and he is a wack-o.

To be fair, little i know the lore, a lot sources say the Emperor talked with Lorgar many times before getting drastic

He was warned multiple times

The emperor did warn him several times before tho

he was throwing a tantrum cause "daddy did not love me back". all the other primarchs (except curze) managed to create empires. following their natural to lead and build. but lorgar? willingly became a slave. Lorgar went "notice me senpai" and got angry when the emperor told him to get his shit together and do what he was told and created to do. he is as tragic as the emo kid hating his parents cause his mom took away his DS and now all the my chemical romance songs make sense. man i mean he even cut himself to get the gods attention. if thats not emo i don't know what is.

@@AlexHalt100 Tell me you have alarming political views without telling me you have alarming political views

@@poppyappletree1400 Exactly what I was thinking lol. I feel like Alex here collects WW2 memorabilia but ONLY German. Thinks Jan 6 was mostly peaceful. Celebrated overturning RvW even though it has no effect on him. List goes on. He probably continues to subscribe to Arch. And Jordan Peterson. And "Sargon."

@@poppyappletree1400 in what way? They seemed to hit the nail on the head. Lest you forget Lorgar tried to sell out the entirety of humanity to get assraped by demons for eternity. I cant think of a more frightening political view.

@@AlexHalt100 Lorgar conquered his world. Angron was the only one who failed.

Admittedly after burning down any temples, libraries, people, ideals, and monuments that disagreed with them, but afterwards they started building and indoctrinating. Remember the Ashen Circle was founded when they were loyalist.

Just casually forgets the ultramarines

Counterpoint: all of those planets were made worse by erebus being there

@@axelNodvon2047 And the Imperial Fists, too.

I mean statistically weren’t the Nightlords ironically one of the least lethal to a planets population?

Emperor: Gaze upon my wonders and... what is this scrawl? Someone graffiti'ed my monument. Who would do such a thing? Wordbearers shift uneasily under the emperor's gaze. Emperor: LORGARRRRRRRRRR!!!! ;p

He's just angry that his possession wasn't doing what he wanted it to do

That's a good point

Yea the emperor specifically didn’t want to be worshipped because he knew just how powerful religion can be and how easy it is for a faith to take hold of ppl. I mean one legion basically shaped the imperial cult of 40k and now there’s basically no undoing it.

@@Tarumarugan And yet the emperor was proven wrong by Malcador, a simple priest of the last religion,Lorgar, The sister's of silence, the adeptus soritas and eventually even guilleman who began to question him when assisted in his ressurection by Eldar and mech c'tan tech. He ironically IS literally becoming a god or always was, and some can use his name directly with such faith that they use NO psyker or warp power at all to banish and kill demons. He was warmed that humans naturally need to believe in something, and if he was going to lead them into a new age then naturally they'd need to believe in him. He cast several of his sons into doubt like Horus and Magnus and so they gave into the ruinous powers as well.

lorgar is a fairly accurate depiction of what people like Allister Crowley and the ancient mystery traditions (and modern secret societies) believed

@@awakeandwatching953 Not at all. See Lorgar doesn't actually "believe in" anything since Monarchia. Instead he follows the scientific method of gathering data and testing it. He is a philosopher and a theoretical physicist.

Right?

Isn't that kind of the point of the entire Horus Heresy? That it would've been avoided if the Emperor had simply told his sons about Chaos and why he abandoned the Great Crusade.

Yup. If the Emperor had trusted him with his plan he might have gained an incredibly useful ally who would be totally devoted to it. Instead he lied. It's often like that with that sort of person - their first recourse is to lie, it's not even second nature to them, it's their first nature.

Yeah, if he was trained to be the atheist imperium version of Joseph Goebbels he would have absolutely made the imperium more cohesive and allow for greater expansion

Why are you insulting Majorkill (jk)

Black templars ?

Lorgar is currently relocating resources to a Nigerian Prince who sent him an email.

In like Rogue Trader

Ultimately, the Primarchs are a bunch of manchildren and the Emperors mistake was expecting them to simply to their job.

Emperor: “Stop worshipping me as a god!” Also the Emperor: (uses Galaxy-spanning psychic powers for petty bullshit)

I think he was physically present, but he still could do it 😂

How is he bad at communicating? Its not like he was sending mixed messages, it was literally “no religion, no worshipping anything - especially me”. And lorgar proceeded to do exactly that. Then cried and threw a tantrum when he got spanked by daddy for disobeying him.

Lorgar was right

Also Ian doesnt fuck up like Bricky does with the lore

@@Eddieo9999 remember their motto, entertainment over accuracy

Welllll. A theme in 40k is a species or phenomena being seen as GODS when it's in fact just a very powerful or weird entity. The C'tan and the Old Ones are just powerful species. The 'chaos gods' are natural products of a world where psychic energy goes to inhabit a different dimension. They didn't create the world, they aren't omnipotent, they don't set laws for mortals or have a vested interest in caring for them, they don't really care what happens when you die, they're just beings that are very powerful and very weird. Even the 'God-Emperor' is basically just a guy who took in so much warp power as a gamble to save humanity that he lost his own humanity in the process and now exists as a floaty cosmic force. What they call souls are just psychic energy, a form of energy that is (presumably) scientifically measurable. It wasn't gifted to humans by the divine, the 40k universe wasn't created by an intelligent creator, etc. So, kinda depends on what the definition of 'godhood' is - powerful stuff we don't understand or benevolent divinity? For the Interex, they were aware that the warp and chaos are dangerous natural forces and should be treated as such and generally managed to have an adult relationship to Chaos, much like we do with electricity. They treated the warp as a natural force and the aliens that live in it as dangerous but natural phenomena. I do think that the Imperial Truth might have stood a better chance at succeding if they'd framed it like that though and not kept it a secret, but how many more enterprising assholes would have tried to use the warp for their own benefit if they knew what it was and thought of it as science???

@@ArbitorIan Bile, Ahriman, hell even Magnus... More than all that, though, we know the Emperor was on a time crunch. I think he was hoping he could hold the Imperium together with the Imperial Truth long enough to finish the Web-way and start weaning humanity off their need of using the Warp. Just, you know, Chaos did not let him have that time. It is funny really, the Chaos Gods' primary goal of the Horus Heresy was fulfilled at the start with one conversation between Tzeentch and Magnus. I get the distinct impression everything else was just a bonus.

@@ArbitorIan thanks for your reply, I love this topic in 40k and one of the best parts of this hobby is getting to debate these topics with friends and strangers alike. I personally like asking veteran hobbyists why the word bearers never manifested miracles of the emperor?

the coup is in the novel Slaves to Darkness

Lol if that isn’t the truth. It’s a good thing I’m too attached to the wizard trope (glory to the XV) or I’d still be deciding between 7 legions. There’s just too many interesting ones!

If that ain't true, idk what is. Took me a week to decide between iron Warriors, word bearers and alpha legion. And that's as my second heresy legion army lmao

Word Bearers are wizzards too! Terribly trained, barely-in-control wizzards who've just been given a load of new toys and are CONVINCED they know what to do with them!

@@ArbitorIan Ian, are you trying to get me to start a SECOND wizard army? That would indict me as having less restraint than a son of Magnus.

Maybe think of them as Space Warlocks instead!

Lorgar is too prideful to do something in that insidious manner at that time.

@@mide2476 I wouldn't say it's insidious. I'm sure he'd find it as a noble calling. Like how the church would send missionaries to distant places. Pretty sure there would still be enough suffering in the imperium to have people believe that there's a sky daddy up there who loves and protects them.

This video does mention similar ideas: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kTzkHZE2sT4.html.

He kept believing that the emperor was a god, just not one who is worthy of worship

I feel like Lorgar would've at least fallen later if his legion weren't so slow at compliance.

Who is Logar?

It's a bug in RU-vid - the video is unlisted for Patreons only until it goes live, but sometimes it appears in playlists anyway. Woop, you get early access I guess!

@@ArbitorIanI was wondering why we were getting them early

No. Until recently he was within his tower in prayer, recent lore has said he has rallied countless WB warbands and is on campaign again. But nothing direct.

@@theemperorschosen7607 He was hiding from Corax 🥲

@@poppyappletree1400 Yeah Praying for salvation from angry bird

Knowing GW's naming traditions I'd expect it to be pronounced more like the first half of the English town Colchester

It was all Erebus fault. F .. Erebus...

is the phrase "The difference is I know I am right" from the short story "The Last Church"? it sounds familiar

@@Misadventures_85 Yuppers. So too is Uriah, of course. Big-E's closing argument of "I know I am right" was and still is the most amazing thing he's ever said in my book. It also gives us an extreme example of how Emps thinks, sees things, and justifies what he does - no matter how obviously hypocritical he is most of the time.

it's such a good line. I felt chills when I heard it

I think all the legions are awful, but the Word Bearers make excellent villains. If I'm going to do villainous chaos marines, it's gotta be the scarlet boys.

Lorgar saw it as accepting the terrible truth rather than believing the comfortable lie. But yeah, he's a massive arsehole.