Cistern of the First Hill should grant 2 levels of Cistern once connected, and increase your max cistern level from lvl 5 to lvl 6, so that it's a meaningful eco landmark. The heal can stay who cares frankly.
Your change is an interesting idea but people will still go for the tower, the problem of byzantines is that they are too slow and the tower allows for quick power spike once in castle. Their late game eco and late game in general is already one of the best, you dot really need an extra cistern boost.
@@captainobvious8530 I mean if it did both, I think it would be good, maybe even too good. 10% eco boost is a lot (or considering biz, 5% and save build time and a bunch of stone), plus the gulp isn't that good necessarily, but it gets immediate value with catfracts. So if it has a long term eco boost, and an immediate buff to sustain of your catfracts, seems like that competes well with a better eco boost but no healing/sustain
i actually suggested that idea on another video i think it was beasty who did when he talked about byz landmarks. except the increase on cistern lvl which might be slightly too strong but thats what the test servers are for .
Make Abbey of Kings able to recruit MAA in feudal age, and then also Knights in castle age. Maybe give an upgrade called “The Kings Men”, which buffs said units when they’re within the King’s Aura. It would make a good transition when English get their variant civ, maybe centered around Richard the Lionheart.
This is definitely one of the most confusing parts of the game as a new player. When I started a few weeks ago I would just follow build orders to the letter. As I get better and starting trying new things, I naturally figure out that some landmarks are awful and that's why they are never in the build orders. Thanks for explaining why exactly they are so bad.
I love Byzantines, but honestly to me their landmarks feel like the weakest aspect of the civ. A stable landmark just isn't very powerful without feudal age knights. The Grand Winery's oil boost feels so much weaker than other aura boosts. I feel like I'm playing with much worse versions of School of Cavalry and Aachen Chapel. I honestly think Cistern of the First Hill should've been a feudal age landmark because most Byzantines will have cistern level 5 online before they get to castle age, so a lot of the landmark's potential value in adding to the network gets undercut. If Hill Cistern was a feudal age landmark, then it'd at least give you an early boost to your cistern network and that might make players consider it more. For a castle age landmark, it needs either a lot more value or to power spike you in some way. Also I know it wasn't mentioned in this video, but I seriously wish the Golden Horn Tower was actually a production-boosted Merc House so Byzantine players could have the option of a fast castle into unit spam strat (think HRE's FC Burgrave, but with mercenaries)
They could swap Winery and Cistern landmarks, and then buff the stats and/or AoE range of the winery as well as increase the relic oil production. It is the same as relic gold right now. You can't even train monks in feudal, so it would feel much better to build it into castle age.
Abby of Kings: increase the healing circle size, so it can be more useful near docks Or When king is garrisoned in a building the building also get the same healing circle as the Abby: Chamber of Commerce: gathering rate increase around the landmark when traders are active. Hisar Academy: give 10 - 20 free scholars - makes it easier to get imp upgrades
Wynguard unlocking the units in Barracks and Archery Range actually has a precedent now as well with Yuan Raiders and Imperial Guard. Both are significantly stronger than their normal variants and Relic didn't think it was a problem, so really it shouldn't be for Wynguard either.
I like using the deerstones in an aggressively sacrificial manner. Moving it and putting it in the enemies base gives your military the movesped buff without having to build a tower on the enemies side. It blocks walls and wastes space even if they burn it down, and even diamond players waste time burning it down which gives you good info on their army comp. Even with that usage I'd like to see a deerstones buff, perhaps giving it the Superior Mobility tech for building movement too.
A very good fix for ootd burger palace is for the bonus to also affect upgrades, castle and imperial infantry upgrades can be very expensive and take a long while.
decent change for wynguard would be: units recruited from palace are fully upgraded. So you could have some upgraded cavalry early imp for example when more important upgrades are priority.
I don't think landmarks should get buffs to make one better than the other in a certain age. In my opinion, the best way to balance landmarks is to bssically give you a sort of a different playstyle depending on the landmark you go for in that age, and that's really hard to balance because the landmarks combined with the faction's different features and start basically decides what the best landmark is. Best example of that would be the hre and ootd
I would also rework the Chinese Imperial Palace. It's true that you can construct both landmarks (and you usually do to reach the dinasty) but you hardly ever see somebody construct Imperial Palace BEFORE clocktower. It means there's a significant difference in terms of utility for the two landmarks, I'd change something just to incentivize players occasionally to go for Palace rather then Clocktower first (example: give it the possibility to recruit Imperial Official as well? It doesn't change much but it could help if you want to accelerate booming because you don't have to wait for the Academy to produce two, you can produce one each).
I like the cistern of the first hill because a bit of surprise healing can throw an opponent off. Especially combined with Triumph from the earlier hippodrome landmark. But. . . yea if your cataphract is getting one-shot by a load of crossbows, the cistern heal isn't going to help that much. At least Triumph is nice for earlier raiding where your horsemen aren't getting one-shot yet.
for Mindwork, you can put in a prelet and it reduces the cost of the units from military around it. that way it is a economic buff in a way to off set the 40% gather speed missing.
I like the idea of a 6th level for the Cistern. If they want to keep healing as main feature of it maybe the heals could just activate passively and you can just select in the landmark which unit type you want the heals to apply to. But tbh I think having the cistern buff your aqueducts is a better idea.
Is palace of sultan really among the worst landmark? Its producing what i think similar ammount of value with all 5 ottoman military school that with istanbul observatory and vizier points
one of the most fun things about ZXL is that they introduced all brand-new landmarks AND since you have the dynasty system, you get to use all of them. In comparison, OOTD has all the same ones as HRE, just with different features. Would be awesome to have a bunch more new landmarks for OOTD if possible
Wyngard train time is too long. That’s why i never use it. By the time you get to imperial you’re already being constantly attacked giving no time for the units to come out
College of artillery should just allow the cannons to switch fire modes (perhaps with a cooldown on switching) that allows the cannons to just fire the spread shot
Interesting. In your video on all landmarks posted a year ago, you mentioned Berkshire was underwhelming, 99% of the time people just go wynguard. You can tell the developers actively listen to their community. Great context as usual 👍🏻
yes that's what I was thinking on how to buff that one. Golden Horn is so powerful of a landmark, Cistern is too late too little for castle age. It should increase max level and count as 2 cisterns I believe.
The other way of buffing house of learning is to create an imperial age winning condition for Delhi, right now if you don't win in Late Castle, you will lose in imperial siege age. So after fixing the imperial landmarks and adding a small buff to Hearthy Rations tech, add CULVERINS to Delhi. It can even be an imperial age tech in House of Learning to add Culverin, like a tech called "The Ways of the West" and it gives you culverin and maybe some cool unique "western" unit.
Delhi does have an imperial age win condition: elephant swarm (and there are a few others that rarely come into play). I don't think they need Culverins (it would really help them out by covering their anti-siege weakness, but imo civs should have weaknesses), but I do think that ghazi raiders should get bonus damage against siege (like all other horsemen do). Right now, their best anti-siege options are forced march infantry rush (works, but is manually activated), knights, and Springalds.
With the japanese buddhist temple landmark maybe give the monk debuff a small aoe spell. Reduce the 50% debuff damage to 25% or 33%. Reduce the duration of the debuff from 60sec to 10 or 5 sec. And increase the cooldown from 2sec to 15 to 30sec. The problem is the fact u can only debuff 1 unit at a time making it super micro intensive. This will able debuffing an entire army (with enough monks) easier and should be worthwhile
I feel like castle of the crow should go to castle for Japanese maybe with a slight resource reduction for the caravan and the Budddhist monks should have the buff/debuff toggled all the time when carrying a relic and moved to imp. It would make for some interesting plays.
@@GrabbaBeer The Aachen inspires because it has a prelate inside that does so. Without a prelate inside that can inspire warriors there's nothing the chapel by itself does.
Beasty, Meinwerk buff for horsemen gives +2 range armor and +2 melee armor. It really is not bad, they are cheap light knights. It will only give +2 melee armor for spearman. The description is wrong.
Historically there were Buddhist warrior monks in feudal Japan who actively participated in warfare. Could have been cool if the Temple of Equility can produce them as unique Japanese religious infantries. Yet they decided to give Juicy's Legacy warrior monks. Also I think Cistern of the First Hill should swap place with Grand Winery.
Delhi analysis: HoL is pretty good, just overshadowed by Compound of the Defender. And the research times for Delhi techs is relevant to the strength of those techs (two examples: Reinforced Foundations has a base research time of ~2 minutes, which makes it come in really quickly when scholars are garrisoned. The other example is slow-burning defenses, which tends to be a low-priority tech with its base research time of 3:45, which in my experience means it comes in about a minute). But yeah, if we saw more Delhi 2TC Feudal play, we'd see more HoL. Delhi imperial landmarks: Hisar Academy has a much better effective base research multiplier (~8.5x vs 13.5x), which is the research multiplier after accounting for the 3 free scholars and the 4 scholars that go into Palace of the Sultan. This is why I consider Hisar Academy the stronger landmark (8.5x is almost game-breaking strong imo). But having a way to speed up Madrassah techs (outside of mass scholar garrison) would be really nice, even if it is limited to just one or two techs. For Palace of the Sultan, I'd get rid of the 4 scholars and instead have it affected by Efficient Production (with a corresponding production speed change to ensure that the elephants don't end up producing slower when the landmark is garrisoned with the 1 than they are now with 4). These are just my opinions, and there is certainly more than one way to improve a landmark. Other landmark thoughts: Istanbul Imperial Palace: I suspect changing the normal Vizier point limit to 4 would fix the Ottoman Castle age landmark balance (especially if IIP limit remained at 7). I suspect that this wouldn't be a very popular fix, though (for Ottoman players). Master Smiths: Free techs for earlier ages would help it out. Also, having it enable research of future blacksmith techs (without age restriction) would also help. Another option would be unlocking a 4th tier of blacksmith techs. Thor's dwarven armory in AoM is a fine inspiration for this.
i've been playing lot of ootd, what pisses me the most is the fact that it takes FOREVER to produce ONE unit, i think on burgave give em 60% faster if not more to make units. while also 30% cheaper
What if abbey of kings was a stable but was something weird like, 50% cheaper but 50% longer build time. So it is less than 1 stable building, like worth half a stable but a small discount to make it worth taking still.
Hello beasty, a proposition on abbey of kings. What if this landmark unlock early knights for english? Like if you build this landmark you will can build early knights in stables. I think can transform english in a new interesting civ. Where you can go full infantry conv with the council or knights/longbow with abbey.
Saharan Trade Network - what if it gives traders aura buffing towers giving them more dmg/dps or something? If it is designed to be connected with a trade let's try to give something to traders.
Abby of Memes: Give King out-of-combat heals AND in-combat network of castles area buff. Next, let AoK be a garrisonable building for vill protection, but also if you garrison in and out men-at-arms, they get "consecrated" with the ability (not area effect like the king) to have perma healing and network attack buffs until they die. You can only have 10 man at arms with this, and if you garrison pop-in/pop-out other maa, the first maa lose the ability so that you always have no more than 10 buffed maa. Probably this should not stack if in the presence of the king. This could make abbey = maa strat vs council hall = archer strat. Also, abbey garrisoning 8 or 10 makes it a feudal defense bldg vs council hall offense building.
Sounds like a lot of this is you saying that keeps are overpowered and any landmark that gives you a keep or a discounted keep tends to be best in slot. Seems like a simple fix
Adding in an algorithm comment before I watch in case I don’t finish: let’s see if he calls out that the best way to fix some of them is to address the other clearly better option (like HRE Aachen).
Meinwerk would be way better if they would give HRE the ability to build cheap Monastery (100-150 Wood) in the Dark Age, so Meinwerk Players could Produce Prelates and keep their Villagers inspired without loosing on any Villager production in the early game
Hisar is good in ffa and teamgames. you have more pop for army and food from that can not be raided, But ye in 1x1 it is not good. Maybe there is no garrions inside and give it faster and i mean much faster research time? so you can like rush imp and in like 30 s have first upgrade from "university" done?
Puritans: Gather at half speed from deer, boar, and berries, TCs are also religious buildings, can't build archery units, builds forts instead of houses which cost 150 wood provide 30 pop cap (garrison 5) and train hand canoneers in the imperial age.
Look at chillyempire's design for English. Richard Lionheart crusader civ that is active on the map (call in the crusade every 10 or so minutes & reduce the time by holding sacred sites)
I think French royal cannons should have splash damage for every shoot becouse as u said it is not useful and this ability is available in other civs like ottomans
I think HRE should get all those unique upgrades regardless of meinwerk, because they are so outdated and boring. Meinwerk then would have those upgrades "improved" like a oovo, with significant buffs. That and also MAA unique upgrades with reduced cost
Personally I think Abby of Kings should be an eco landmark. You'd need to break the crap out of Abby for it to be your pressure landmark so why not give the English and eco landmark choice there instead. Just spit balling but why not something like something like your TC's and the Abby get a minorly boosted version of the mill bonus and get affected by the gold farms upgrade.
I would buff Abbey of Kings' area of effect. It should grow bigger with each age up, making city building important when going this landmark. At Imperial Age you could have healing for both your defending military as well as your villagers. It might seem minor, but I think with the right dimensions of the AoE, we could see some interesting plays. Wynguard seems fine as it is. It is Berkshire that is too powerful. Chamber of Commerce is a strange one. Seems fine, but not in this meta. Collage of Artillery is fine to me as well. Red Palace is too powerful. Deer Stones seem fine to me. It's a safe landmark to get, as it provides a rather nice passive bonus, at the cost of not acting like a market like the Silver Tree. I'm not a big Mongol player, so I'm not adept at judging its usefulness well. Khaganate Palace seems fine to me as well. House of Learning needs a passive bonus like its adversarry. Perhaps make it behave like +2 scholars, so it synergizes with itself. You get a lot of unique technologies AND extra research speed to get them. Hisar Academy needs a rework. I do not think it's remotely interesting to get in any of my games. Palace of the Sultan seems fine to me. Meinwerk palace seems fine. Sultanhani seems fine to me as well. It is just that we are in a food focused meta. Once that shifts, this landmark will see use. Istanbul Palace should be swapped with Sea Gate Castle and provide a 4th tier of vicier choices, on top of what it already provides. Sea Gate Castle should be moved to Age III as mentioned above. Saharan Trade network seems fine to me. It perhaps could just use a slight increase in the food it provides. Griot Bara needs to be swapped with Farambia, as right now it clashes with the cow boom landmark. You don't have that many farmers to justify 300 gold when you go cow every game. Now you'd have a choice between cow food or farmer food. Farambia would then have to be moved to age IV and with that it could get a further reduction in resource cost per squad you hire. Temple of Equality is strange to use and needs a rework. Castle of the Crow seems fine, it is just Gunsmith that is slightly too powerful. Grand Winery needs to be swapped with Cistern of the first Hill, so it is built into Age III instead. Relic oil needs to be increased as well, as it is even to gold relic and gold is better than oil. Area of effect could be increased as well. Cistern of the first Hill will be fine if it is moved to Age II as mentioned above. Industry needs to be reworked and increase wood yield (not gathering rate) from villagers by x/y/z for each age. Master Smiths needs to be removed and replaced with something else. It has very situational niche use. Order of the Dragon needs altogether new unique landmarks and too does Jeanne d'Arc. Give them both something that can steer their playstyle into something interesting for both the player and for the opponent to counter.
