As a native West Virginian, I visited Green Bank many times when I was young. When my daughters were old enough, I took them for a visit. The museum was closed that day and so was the bus tour but one of the female scientists and out and spoke with us. Through an extreme act of kindness she took me and my daughters on a small private tour and spoke with my daughters about being a scientist. It was magical. My oldest daughter is now an engineer with Lockheed-Martin. Thank you for the inspiration and kindness. If you go there now they have what I consider to be the best science museum anywhere.
What a truly amazing and inspirational experience you and your girls had. Very touching and heartwarming. On a side note, I'm the Custodian for the Wildlife and Fisheries building at Cal Poly Humboldt, and I often give educational tours of the building and it's many museums and show cases to families who are interested. I can honestly say that I get as much, if not more enjoyment and fulfillment as they do. It's especially satisfying to see young inquisitive children's eyes light up in awe. I believe this is why, for the same reason the Professor/Curator had taken you and your girls in for the tour all those years ago.
What a great documentary. Actual people and an actual story. No space alien theorists or far-out premises. Just a wonderful story that needed to be told.
whew! i'm just grateful those flying saucer drawings that are thousands of years old on cave walls are fake. and the Foo Fighters that WWII bomber pilots reported flying circles around their aircraft was just all made up. this documentary lets us all know that only mankind lives in the universe and that space aliens aren't real unless we say they are!! Gentlemen!!
I agree, but the page owner needs to remove the term “sci-fi” because it could give someone an inaccurate idea about the validity of some of these confirmed historical events.
This is the best description ever. I'm 62 and know the "Big Ear" and the "Wow" signal, but I havent seen anyone put them together like you have. Thank you so much!
Think of the "WOW" signal as the Voyager Golden Record we sent into space. That's is how that species was communicating and we got the message most likely hundreds if not thousands of years after THEY sent it.
it could have been absolutely a million things..aliens being one, but many many many different things for them to assume it was aliens is pretty..well hopeful to put it nicely
An excellent and surprisingly moving documentary - the spirit of exploration and the sheer enthusiasm shown by the scientists and technicians is an example to us all......
This is a really well made doc. I can’t say I learned too much I didn’t know besides the more personal sides of some of the accounts. But when I look for a doc, this is what I prefer. No nonsense.
My Dad's family are from Pochauntus and Greenbriar counties in West Virginia .My Uncle told us when Green Back first started listening they were giving all the locals free spark plugs, points condenser for their old gasoline tractors and broken down jalopy cars to get rid of the car ignition noise in the area. More Modern components were less noisy.
53:29 - Even if another technological civilization is within 70 light years from here (unlikely, I think), they still won’t hear our radio or TV signals. At even half that distance, those already-weak signals would almost certainly have been inverse-squared to way below the cosmic-noise floor.
You got it right 👨🏫 .. unfortunately I did not get any school degree when I was younger.. but today,I understand the basics of physics enough for easily agreeing with the measurable reality of what you've said. Searching for technological intelligence, is a very weird goal to me.. Searching for bacterial life is lot more logical if we really want to find life outside our solar system. system.. Technological life is something very recent on planet Earth, and most of people don't understand that we will never get enough earth resources to perpetuate this life mode for thousands of years.. Also, most of the population living on planet Earth today, doesn't seem to realize that glaciation will come back.. sooner than the time a signal needs to get through space to any possible "technological society" outside of our solar system.. These same peoples, also don't realize that just a little bit of difference with planet's gravity or composition could give a freaky different result with evolution of life, if life is possible. Another thing, evolution of life needs "crazy awesome orbital stability" with planetary system inside the not too cold, not too hot zone around a star for a very long period.. Trying to check if there is something is okay.. it proved our capacity for checking about it. I don't want to judge those who hopes or believed that a telephone call can be but.. .. I'm not the best thinker of the world, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a theorist, I'm far to be a specialist, but one thing is sure.. I'm not stupid or naive with hoping or believing everything inside our communication world today ! (English is my second language I hope my comment was okay for you to understand my "ordinary guy" thought) 🤘😎I have full respect for people like you that having obviously more understanding for the physics world than me ! I'm not a bot, I'm not a troll, I'm just human on planet Earth communicating with people of planet Earth 😎 Cheers 🍻
@@marc-andrebrunet5386, thanks for the thoughtful reply! I think your scientific perspective on this is largely correct. I should clarify that my comment to which you replied, is not to suggest that SETI (searching for extraterrestrial radio signals) is pointless. Quite the opposite, in fact. That, even if only because a negative result is every bit as valuable as a positive one. That is, not detecting extraterrestrial technology tells us that that sort of technological civilization is rare, which is also very interesting information! My point there is just that finding extraterrestrial technology from their equivalent of our radio and television signals is very unlikely to happen. Those signals are just too weak to be detectable at the kinds of distances likely required. However, finding each other via much-stronger signals sent specifically for that purpose is not at all infeasible, and I think is well worthwhile. Your point that we are effectively living in a period between Ice Ages, meaning that, on timescales of 10,000 years or more, Technology has a limited shelf-life, so to speak, is indeed a good one. The “Fermi Paradox” asks why, given that the nearest technological civilization could easily be a million years ahead of Humanity in development as a species, why don’t se see ample evidence of extraterrestrials? I personally think that the solution to that paradox is very simple: It’s only a paradox if we assume that Technology continuously improves over time. Sadly though, I think it’s much more likely that Technology is _cyclical_ instead: The ancient Greeks, Romans, Persians (etc.) had pretty impressive technology going, but it collapsed into the Dark Ages. I certainly _hope_ it’s not true, but I think it’s likely that our current high technological age will similarly end, and we’ll fall back into a new Dark Ages period. It’s a “bummer” thought, and again I hope it’s not true, but I nevertheless expect that in the exceptionally rare cases where intelligent, technological civilizations arise from single-cellular life, in most cases that technology just oscillates indefinitely between high technology and Dark Ages, indefinitely.
48:42 The JWST should do a deep field image of that portion of the sky encompassing the "Wow" signal. Even if they don't see signs of intelligent life a deep field image could still reveal all kinds of fascinating new discoveries. 😀
Unfortunately we will never see signs of technological intelligent life.. the most credible probabilities indicate almost no chance.. That's the mathematical reality. It's okay to try.. but it's only a game for us to developed a bit more of what we already technologically known. The reality is that even if there's technological life society somewhere, they surely don't give a damn about us because the first priority of every kind of life we already observed is feeding.. We don't check for distant other system planet for feeding. Finding bacteriological life somewhere is just a cool goal and that's it ! Are we lucky to be on planet Earth ? 📌Sure !! It is absolutely totally awesome 🤘😎🎸 One more thing, we are very lucky to live right now in the history of Life on planet Earth ! (English is my second language please forgive the way I wrote if you have difficulty to understand) Thanks 🍻
What an amazing video, I think we would be very small minded if we didn't believe that somewhere out in the cosmos there is intelligent advanced life. I know in my heart that we on Earth are not alone. I can't prove that there is life, but also those who say that there is nothing else out there can't prove that also. One day we will find what we are looking for.
@@spenser6353 since then I have changed my mind. I'm not even religious but I don't know. I think we r alone in this big big universe and I don't find that terrifying.
@@spenser6353 as of now I think we have to be. From watching everything from Fox to Grier and everyone else. They r very bias. EVERYTHING from the Gimble to the tic toc is top secret military. It has always been. But if there truly is intelligent life out there we will NEVER discover one another.
My favorite analogy that has stuck with me about the search for intelligent life is: if you took a bucket of water from the ocean and it had no fish in it, therefore, you determined the ocean held no fish it would be similar to us considering life in the universe now.
Got me too, but it's better than sci fi! They're right, the subtitle is often chosen automatically, but in this case I'm glad it caught my attention. And as time passes, radiotelescopes will be built on the moon and other planets that will have literally astronomical focus....
What an absolutely excellent documentary. It kind of reminds me of the Carl Sagan -esk type of documentary that is thought provoking and inspires some hope. Some hope that we may not be alone. I dread when funding stops in 2025. I'm afraid the general public has lost interest in asking these basic questions, and have the right people asking them. People like Carl Sagan that inspires the public to ask questions and dare to hope. People like Kraus, Hawkins and Milner that have the ability to push to get something like this off the ground.
On the evening of September 7th, 2006 my friend Jen and I were driving home from a friend's house nearby where the Big Ear Radio Observatory used to be. It was somewhere around 10 PM near the corner of Cheshire Rd. and Rt 23 between Delaware, Ohio, and Lewis Center, Ohio. We were driving down Route 23 heading south towards Lewis Center when Jen saw a bright light very distant in the sky: we both joked saying “It’s probably a UFO.”. So we keep driving and we eventually lose sight and forget about the distant object in the sky. Then as we are coming over the precipice of the hill just beyond where the golf course is now, where the telescope once stood there was an enormous glowing football-shaped UFO hanging right above our heads steadily moving overtop of Route 23 heading towards Lewis Center. It was the most frightening, and awe-inspiring thing I have ever witnessed. We stopped on the side of the highway and got out of the car. It was the largest thing I have ever seen, I felt like an Ant beneath a giant glowing Boot. The object looked like it was engulfed in an orangeish/reddish plasma almost like what the surface of the sun looks like from close up/space. It looked as though it had flames bubbling and churning within it. I tried to take a video with my Motorola Razr but the phone just would not pick it up at all even though it had just been working fine and had nearly a full charge. It slowly begins to back away from us a bit and begins floating toward the town of Lewis Center. We follow it back to Lewis Center where my friends and I watch it for nearly an hour and eventually it began to gain altitude then in a dizzying display of lights and flashes it blasted away in the blink of an eye leaving behind a wispy blue/teal vapor trail. I found out later on that the Big Ear Radio Observatory in Delaware, Ohio was where they had received the WOW! Signal in 1977. This object took up a large portion of the visible sky as we came upon it. I’m an Airman, I have been trained to observe and identify aircraft. I would estimate the object to be the size of an NFL Football Stadium, just floating above the tree line/highway and houses and buildings. The object was witnessed by at least 5 people other than myself. As it was gaining altitude glowing blueish/purplish orbs started cascading out of the main Football(Cigar) shaped object one after the other each time one appeared the momentum of which they revolved around the main object intensified until all I could see was a spinning blue glow around the main Football object and then in the blink of an eye it shot off into a flash of light in front of it like the enterprise going to warp speed leaving only a bluish trailing haze behind. The whole experience was the most profound thing to have ever happened to me in my lifetime up until that point. An E-3 Sentry Aircraft immediately flew into the area after the encounter. At a very low altitude. It was so low that I could easily make out exactly what type of plane it was in the black of night. I also saw it in the sky around Lewis Center for the next few days after the encounter. It was so close I could read U.S. Air Force on the side of the Aircraft.
Nah, I don't think so. A glowing object "the size of a football stadium" hanging in the sky would be seen for miles around by many people. And you can't seem to decide if it was football-shaped or cigar-shaped. There's a big difference.
@@Midwinter2 No. a cigar, and a football are very similarly shaped objects. The object was witnessed by numerous people, and numerous reports were produced about the sighting you can look it up.
It's frustrating by default searching for signals within the milkyway galaxy. It's really comes down to being lucky. The greatest search in our existence.
WOW! Indeed. Brilliant documentary. Having had contact with SETI in some minor ways, and having had the chance to listen to Seth Shostak and Frank Drake speak, I"d say this documentary is an important part of the toolkit for this great quest. I'll be working with local students next week to teach some basic ideas about the STEAM of space exploration science and will, as always, share the Drake Equation with them. Good work and thanks for this. Highly recommended. DMS, NASA-AESP ret; CONTACT -Cultures of the Imagination Conference.
Note that radio waves travel at light velocity . If the wow signal was in some way a tool for communication , at comes form a source near to us ( at least at some dozens of light years ) .
Great video. A major problem on this planet however is that the most important aspects of 'life' including government and scientific exploration are in the hands of 'clever' but not intelligent people. Sadly, cleverness (denoted by academic awards) and intelligence are frequently viewed as the same thing - which they are definately not!
Academics deserve respect, but they are definitely isolated. Not seeing the forest for the trees sort of thing. The young lady mentions potentially losing funding for the open sky project that allows others to book time on the telescope. There should definitely be more collaboration between fields, but it might devolve into the experts having to explain the most basic concepts to the 'wise' but uneducated.
the woman talking at 16:24 makes me think of the large ancient line drawings in central/southern america, that can only be clearly seen from the air; the drawing on a huge hillside of a person looking out of a doorway skyward and waving hello.
. Useful comment. I was wondering if it's worth watching .. considering I usually watch " event horizon" and John Michael Godier. Mb it will be . Just on the surface looks too sensationalist . Like George's Bob Lazar effort
42:58 - Hmmm… The only signal we’ve sent with sufficient power to be detected above cosmic noise tens of light ears away - the Drake Signal, from Arecibo - was also transmitted for only a very short time and not repeated.
Yes. A very promising signal , but does not mean it was a hello. We didn't receive another one , so , it might have been a goodbye. Maybe it was asking for help. Maybe they were dying. Maybe they were being destroyed. We'll never know , unfortunately.
People wonder why the cosmos is silent, but we're not listening enough. We need to be listening in all directions at all times on all frequencies. Recording all signals so that we can decipher any signal intercepted.
we are sending signals but still only for a short time, if there are no other civilisations near enough, no one will hear us for millennia to come. Just hope they are friendly, and in no way like us, because if they are, we ALL will be like the Native Americans when the Europeans arrived :)
There is the Dark Forest theory that says do not let your presence in the forest be known lest you become prey. So perhaps that is why things are so quiet.
The part missing from this documentary, which I kept asking all the way through: "what is the location the telescope was pointing at, at the moment the signal was detected, which would have been the source location in the sky of the signal?"
Wikipedia is your friend... "The signal appeared to come from the direction of the constellation Sagittarius and bore the expected hallmarks of extraterrestrial origin."
why is it such a shock that there's life within the galaxy.... it's kind stupid when you think about when you hear people thinking we are the only ones
There are numerous ways to approach the Fermi paradox, all devised by very smart people, that can adequately account for all the possibilities, ranging from the universe being populated with many intelligent civilizations to us being essentially alone. None of them are stupid ways of thinking about it. The fact is we lack sufficient/any data to address certain variables that drastically change the outcome. Without that presently unknowable knowledge, the only answer is that we simply do not know. Any claim to the contrary is built on faith in our own ability to guess correctly, closer to religion than science
The wow signal was on 1420 MHz (21 cm)… it seems like today it would be completely feasible to mass produce some low cost small dish antennas with a tracking motor and basic receiver and let people buy them for a few hundred bucks. If you had, say, 500 spread across the globe just sitting in people’s yards all looking at the same area of sky the signal was found I feel like we could keep 24/7 monitoring going, even if it was lower quality? Edit: And of course if something was found it could be corroborated and the data merged to give us something useful? Idk
1420 is the frequency of hydrogen atom. But This WOW signal could not have come from extraterrestials. They communicate with completey different means. They don't use electromagnetic waves; the waves are too slow.
@@ericephemetherson3964 Pray, tell us all about extraterrestrial communication, how they do it, the physics behind it and how you know... This should be good! (sarcasm!)
@@chrisantoniou4366 I’m confident lots of us would buy one - the real challenge would be developing such a device. The only way I can imagine it working would be a collaborative project with at least a dozen volunteers with such specialties as radio astronomy, client/chip programming, server programming and management, circuit board design, radio design, mechanical engineering, manufacturing, web development, and of course project management. With some crowdfunding and probably 2 years of work I could see it happening. Perhaps the place to start would be to come up with a list of requirements and investigate whether it’s even feasible, such as: 1) End-user cost of less than $X ($100? $200? $500?) 2) As close to “plug and play” as possible 3) WiFi enabled for automatic upload of collected data to centralized server 4) Fully open-sourced and public sharing of collected data And stretch requirements: 5) “Tunable” receiver in case a different interesting frequency is discovered? 6) “Centralized control” in case something crazy happens and we wanted to point all the receivers to a different location? (hacking vulnerability though) As is probably clear, just coming up with the requirements is a big task. One school of thought says to do the absolute minimum to achieve the objective (all manual, rigid, fast, low cost), and another says to plan for the future and build in flexibility and durability.
A great documentary exploring the science behind and potential implications of the WOW signal. This event for me is analogous to someone peeking through a front door keyhole to a giant mansion and seeing someone stirring in the background. The JWST is giving us a view of this mansion from the front foyer and has already revealed a few serious cracks in established cosmological models about when and how the early universe formed. I'm sure even Frank Drake would want to reconsider the relevance and specifics for some of his equations at this point :)
Wonderfull and well researched. Passive , detecting efforts should continue, but if we REALLY want answers to "are we alone" we need to become Extraterrestrials ourselves..!
I’ll grew up in Delaware Ohio, they tore down the telescope, I remember going to the flea market on Sunday at the kingman hill drive in movie theater and you could see the the telescope from there.
Such an entertaining and heartfelt story. All the people involved sound truly committed to this effort. I hope someone can help fund the Green Bank Observatory to keep searching the skies for signals from an alien civilization.
Great documentary. I am bothered that governments do not fund more for SETI other than to say there is no money to be made in it. It is ludicrous to me that our government has money for prioritizing funding for war and a healthy pentagon budget but when it comes to scientific exploration and learning, there is no desire to provide the resources needed to keep these projects running. The other problem is the lack of appreciation for SETI. I think scientists should be more representative in congress which would allow for the possibility of funding. Congress consists mostly of lawyers and people from business backgrounds who are ignorant of the importance of encouraging scientific exploration and discovering the universe. Sadly, looking at the political state of affairs right now, I don't see a possibility of things improving in this area. Our economy is tanking.
@UFO That is my point exactly! A tiny fraction of humanity think about it on a day to day basis. Meanwhile, our governments are consumed by war preparation, maintaining borders to keep illegals out, and overly consumed by issues like gender identification, whether to allow dual restrooms, abortion rights when humanity should be willing to put our differences aside but it doesn't look like that will happen; hence the search for life other than our own will never be a priority as long as we our fixated on our differences rather than our similarities. Very unfortunate.
@UFO Not to get into a debate with you because I am not interested in that. But I never said "scrap the army and defence budget" - you said that, not me. Anyway, I do not want to go back and forth with you on this. Leave me alone.
@UFO How many people on an everyday basis thru the typical routine of life think that the world will be hit by a pandemic that will shake up life as we know it... before COVID?? About as many as you say think about extraterrestrial life in the universe... yet, the world was caught with its pants down and wasn't prepared or investing it the likelihood it will happen. But it did. This is why things should just be done in the best interest of humanity regardless of if they will like it or not. If we did, millions less may have died form the virus, if we invest in searching for outside life, if it IS true, we will be prepared for what happens next. Thats why I pay taxes.
Maybe the Wow! signal was sent by an extraterrestrial civilization to see if other civilizations could detect it and respond. This is speculation, but it could explain why the signal has not been detected again.
A deeply interesting video. I got thinking about one of the excluders of the Drake Equation; it being the one that suggests an intelligent species has advanced to the point where their communications signals can be detected by our radio astronomy but also one that has, sadly, reached another 'Drake excluder' of an intelligent society that is on the brink of self-destruction. Perhaps due to some kind of warfare or even knowledge of a 'planet killing' celestial body with an impact date in their near future. Maybe what was heard, so tantalisingly in the WOW! Signal, was the final transmission of a species, knowing of its imminent annihilation. A great pity on any level, especially if, in that last message, the senders had decided to do a ‘high-compression packet signal’ of its most important history and technology achievements. A kind of time capsule, if you like, to at least establish the fact of their past existence. Or, what could be absolutely vital for Earth; advice on how to avoid a fate similar to theirs. Given the recent, massive, political and public relations shifts after the US government’s acknowledgment of the existence of UAPs (2022); now would be a perfect time to begin official, independent, cooperation between SETI and other groups studying UAPs with the DoD and certain branches of the US military. Not to be ‘swallowed up’ by the military but rather as a way the funding for SETI and other groups can be drastically increased and for the DoDs of various nations guarantee that anything discovered will be openly shared between radio astronomers and other scientists worldwide. It is now, patently obvious that our traditional, Earthbound, adversaries are just as much in the dark over UAP issues as we are. I found the last part of the documentary disappointing in that scientists like Tom Burns, Seth and other interviewees displayed a pessimistic view as to the existence of ET intelligence. They seem to be, even now, too sensitive about recent developments that have too much substance to be dismissed as old-style UFO mania. One has to wonder did they make these remarks before the New York Times and then the US DoD openly declared that the flight characteristics of UAPs could be an example of intelligent control not originating from Earth. Historically, this could be a genuine landmark time for real, altruistic cooperation between all Human beings and, hopefully, with any species we may encounter in the future which, these days is looking increasingly possible. By the way, the only issue over which I’ll disagree with the late, great genius Professor Stephen Hawking, is his warning that we shouldn’t contact aliens... in case their hungry... Please more videos like this one. Cheers, Bill H.
You scratched an interesting point...judging by our civ...isnt the invention of advenced tech maybe the beginning of the end of civs? First Radio, then atom bomb or spoilt Planet by radiation of plants or traditional waste, maybe global warming etc...
the wow signal being the final signal of a society on the brink of extinction seems like a big stretch since theres is still no confirmation that the signal is even of extra terrestial origin. Thats putting the cart before the horse.
The wow signal is still unexplained to this day, its probably thee single most fascinating incident in terms of finding alien life out in space. I believe we eavesdropped into a extraterrestrial communication between two parties by sheer chance. It lasted 72 seconds but sadly we never heard it again.
The same year that Close Encounters of the Third Kind opened in the US. The film was to be released in mid-1977 but was delayed to November because of the various production problems.
Communication== language = understanding=knowleged= awareness! Ppl can changed the meaning of word of sentences, if they think that der is nothing, but for me der is something!
When searching in the direction of the sky map of where the signal came from and it doesn't return can only mean a transmission between a moving craft and it's home base. We were just lucky enough to capture the signal of transmission at the time of it's transmission at a proximity cable of capturing it. So to me , I Would say yes we captured an extraterrestrial signal for a brief period of time. The result is ...yes, life is out there!
It could of repeated and they just never caught it. 72 seconds twice in a day to cover that area of space. We send a lot of one time signals into space.
@@alanheadrick7997 If true, this could mean a civilization very similar to us in it's technological phase. At this point you are correct in saying we only send very limited signals every now and then.
@@freedomfirst5557 I would think the odds of another technologically equal civilization would be pretty rare. My guess and its just me, someone close likely directed a signal at Earth. Close I mean like 10 light years. Of course to a ship and Earth is in the background is possible. But the signal seems narrow like a unmodulated signal, no data, so more of a beacon. To me its a hello, hey look over here. Or maybe from a ship to Earth. Too many things to think about. Very interesting though.
@11.14 The telescope was built mainly with Uni volunteers help...! Superb. We are most defiantly seeing further because we are on our predecessors shoulders..! Love it.
@@bipolarbear9917 me. I wont ruin it for you, but its a prominent sci fi writer. Thats my quote, the said it differently but the same thing essentially. Just put it in google. Again, not the exact words
@@philliph8991 So, it's just a paraphrase of much the same thing. I like the other example of Carl's, because it's more eloquent and uses an economy of words. I also like the word Cosmos rather than Universe, because Cosmos could incorporate the possible Multiverse as well. Where did Carl use your example? It's not important, I'm just curious.
There must be or this reality that we find ourselves in is not natural , science is wrong and humanity is being deceived about everything …. Which in turn begs the question - what is this place really and who are we actually and WHO IS PLAYING US!
is this why in the film "Contact" Jodie fosters' character was named "Ellie" ..after this wonderful little lady Ellie White in this doc ..or is this just an amazing coincidence?
@honkytonk4465 Maybe the branch of statistics? Based upon the available evidence, the average number of examples of life is - In the solar system - 1 In the Milky Way - 1 In the observable universe - 1 😂
Look online for a scientific paper titled "Migrating extraterrestrial civilizations and interstellar colonization: implications for SETI and SETA." It discusses how extraterrestrial civilizations may travel from their home worlds to the Solar System and other planetary systems. It discusses the origin of the Wow! signal.
This should be half the length. After awhile it’s a little watching paint dry- the same paint you saw dry 10 minutes before. But then academics are known for being more than a tad ponderous.
I do not understand why so many people think alien life is impossible. The Universe is endless and saying there is nothing out there without having explored the Universe is like a fireman going to a 2 story building, saving everyone in the first floor, leaving without checking the second floor and stating he saved everyone in the entire building. How would you know if you did not check?
There are retro reflectors, left there by astronauts for laser-ranging projects. Can bounce a laser off it and receive data back; proves SOMEONE was there, not necessarily WHO was there. Unless your one of those flat-earther types 😐
I'm pretty shocked at how Seth S. came across. He seems pretty bitter and jaded. Way more so than I would have expected. Not sure if that is how he really was, how he appears after it was edited, or my sense of how he came across is off.
