Great video. Definitely thought provoking. Despite Nikon users dissolution with unmet performance expectations of the Z6ii I believe Sony or Canon have also made bodies with dual processors. I have always felt Nikon just had the bad luck to be at a point in the Z6/Z7 development cycle which was too far along to respond to Sony’s release of a version of eye autofocus whose performance dramatically reduced the level of effort required to get in focus images of people. It was paradigm changing. Timing, COVID, and crashing markets joined forces to greatly delay Nikon;s ability to respond. Nikon did wonders over time with firmware, but Expeed 6 always struggled to close the gap with its competitors (A7III, R6, ect.); as demonstrated by the need to sometimes disable elements of live view in order to increase focus response. Based on the current Expeed 7 offerings (Z9, Z8, and ZF) I expect Nikon’s Z6iii release to be another landmark offering.
Greg, First, thank you. Second, exactly! Well said! I personally think the Z6iii will be one of the most significant camera releases they have ever made. Hopefully we will know something definitive in the next month or two “ish”.
Your conjecture about building a common planar and then controlling functionality via firmware is not only realistic but actually practiced in other applications. Photography is my hobby; my occupation was that of an IT professional. IBM markets servers under the "Power" name, the current generation being the Power 10. The systems have multiple "cores", analogous to the multiple processors in cameras. To save costs, IBM does put multiple cores on every system. However, the "active" cores are based on what you're willing to pay. Cores are activated by firmware and the firmware you get is based on what you're licensing. What you theorize makes perfect sense if you're trying to control manufacturing costs.
24mp is a good size for a global shutter. But just a stacked 24mp sensor would have half the readout speed with fewer rows to read out. It could get the readout speed into the 2ms range with a stacked, but I think with Sony building out a global sensor camera, and the Z 9h people want smaller files and higher ISO anyway, the global sensor would be great for that.
I really like the idea of sharing the same stacked sensor . It would be a very radical change/idea for companies that leapfrog each other to seemingly share the ,people sales , if that makes sense . Nikon has pushed the envelope with the Z9 and changed how the Japanese company’s build their cameras. By that I mean the kitchen sink thing. I do believe they have something like that coming up . We need Swiss Army knife like cameras more and more . People cannot afford the prices they’d cost. Somehow Nikon reduced that cost $500 with the Z9 . It was and is the game changer. We now need that game changer in a Z6iii per se. Nikon has something up their sleeves I do believe and I’m wanting to buy it .
Hi Kelly - I actually had the very same thought - that the Z6III could be a baby Z9H - kinda the same as how the D3 and the D700 were a pair. It would make sense to have the same stacked sensor in both and the dual Expeed 7 processors as you suggest. The problem with this scenario is that it run contrary to your earlier statement that the Z6III will not out perform the Z8. It seems to me that if the Z6III has a stacked sensor and dual processors it will have to outperform the Z8 unless Nikon intentionally throttles it (i.e. small buffer, worse AF algorithms etc), which would be a shame. I don't see this scenario happening unless Nikon is prepared to cannibalize Z8 sales only a year after Z8 launch which also seems unlikely. I think it is more likely that Z6III will have a new sensor that is indeed faster than the Z6II sensor but probably not stacked - this camera will likely still have a mechanical shutter - they have to maintain differentiation between it and the Z8. That said, I think this will be the last generation of cameras with the mechanical shutter - my guess is the Z6 IV and onward will not have mechanical shutters. Also, I think it is likely that Nikon will not make a Z9H, but rather introduce some firmware for the Z9 that supercharges it one more time - like 30 FPS RAW, pre-capture in RAW etc. and probably some enhancements to video as well. They will introduce this firmware around 2-3 months before the Olympics and it will be enough to keep the Z9 competitive (perhaps behind in some ways, but still competitive) with the A9III and upcoming Canon R1 - enough so that Nikon shooters will not be disadvantaged whatsoever at the Olympics vis a vis Canon and Sony shooters. Then next year (probably late next year -2025 to early 2026) they will release the Z9 II which will be a global shutter, but a perfected global shutter not a prototype like the Sony A9III. We are talking full dynamic range down to ISO 64 etc. Obviously the Z9II will have many more advancements as well. I would like to see a Z6III and Z9H with the stacked sensor that you (and I) have imagined, but I just don't see this happening yet - but here's to being wrong 🤞 Interesting video - thanks for your thoughts and insights. -PD
Great reply to the video. First, I think future differentiation in Nikon cameras will certainly be throttled in the firmware for both marketing and physical characteristics. So let’s say for argument that the Z6iii with its new design could run 6k 60UHD. But not marketing reasons, they release 4k 60 UHD, or maybe 4k 60 UHD down samples from 6K. Or because of a smaller body they limit it in firmware to avoid over heating. Great thought on the Z9H being a firmware update on the Z9.. maybe a crop mode high speed update or something. Appreciate your comments!! Hopefully we will all know in a month or two ish.
@@kellysparksphotography Agreed - it is really hard to know. What seems to be certain is that whatever they do end up releasing is going to be killer/market leading. The last three releases have all been nothing short of top notch/ground breaking in their respective market segments - I expect no differently for the Z6III. -PD
Nikon has never built anything that is overpowered - dual processors are a relatively new thing for them. I think 2 ExSpeed 7 processor will be an overkill if the sensor remains at 24 Mpixels. Perhaps they may have one ExSpeed 6 and one ExSpeed 7 (like the Big Little processors in smartphones) so that the heat output of both processors will be lower. My biggest fear is that will mean the Z6 III will now cost $2,000 or more. That will push it further upmarket and limit sales.
interesting idea. I do think your fear is justified. The Zf body is $2k. I’m pretty sure the Z6iii is going to be $2500. Just a guess of course., But it will be a far better camera in most respects than the Z6ii. Clearly it will be aimed at professionals who can afford the extra $500.
Considering the price of the ZF, the Z6 III will most certainly arrive well north of $2.000 (probably more like $2.500-2.800), if only to leave a big enough gap for the (rumored) Z5 II as the new entry point into Z-mount full frame photography. With the ZF being as successful as it is, and everybody looking forward to the Z6 III, I'm even beginning to wonder where the Z5 II could fit into Nikon's lineup (both technology-wise and price-wise). The Z5 II would have to include a substantial improvement in AF over the current entry- to mid-range (i.e. Z5, Z6 II, Z7 II), and it would have to include a BSI sensor, or otherwise it won't sell at all. But if it's technologically that advanced, it would destroy Z6 III sales, or it would have to be prohibitively expensive for an entry-level body (on the order of $2.000+), to justify an even higher price tag for the Z6 III. I just don't see anything that could create enough separation between a Z5 II and the Z6 III without completely destroying the sales of one of the two cameras either for reasons of lacking must-have features, or price. I'm actually skeptical if Nikon is even going to go through with the Z5 II for that reason. Maybe they'll end up canceling it like the abandoned Z4, which was rumored to be a full-framer in a Z50-type body (i.e. a direct competitor to Sony's A7C).
@@CC3GROUNDZERO Most Z5 owners see it as a replacement for the D750. So there is not much need to upgrade it for videography as those who do that can buy the Z6 II or III. All Nikon needs to do is upgrade the sensor to BSI, incorporate EXPEED 6, and boost the burst mode to maybe 7 or 8 fps.
@@fleemwings207 I'm a Z5 owner, and among the improvements I'd need to see to even consider the Z5 II are a massively improved AF performance. Expeed 6 wouldn't cut if for sufficiently improved AF performance. In that case, entry-level customers could simply get a Z6 II (which they won't because its AF is also less than stellar). Also, I certainly don't see the Z5 as a mirrorless D750, I see it more as a crippled bargain which is all that I could afford at the time. And I wish I had saved up for a Sony A7 III back then instead.
This rumor came from a translation of a Chinese word that is translated dual. Some took that to mean 2, other’s believe it was referring to the texting expeed7 dual processing in the single chip. Everyone is welcome to an opinion. Hopefully we will know in a month or two. 😀
Nice, thanks! I don’t think your “out there” predictions are unreasonable at all! Many months ago I wrote that a 24Mpix Z9h could probably do 120fps full res JPEGs and I’m sticking to that guess...
The Z f has a ton of new tech over the Z 6II.. AF to EV -10 instead of -4.5; The AF focused IBIS; Better High ISO performance; face detection in manual mode; 8 stops of IBIS vs. 5.
@@kellysparksphotography the Z 8/9’s low light AF is rated at -6.5 EV. It’s IBIS at 5.5 stops and doesn’t have the AF based IBIS either. Neither of those cameras can touch the Z f’s low light high ISO noise performance either. I was shooting fire and LED light performers after dark. I had to use an f/1.2 lens on my Z 9 to be able to AF. My Z f was doing just fine with my Z 70-200/2.8. I hope Nikon is able to get that working in a firmware update on the 8 and 9, but given the photosite size being smaller on the 45.7 mp sensors, they may just not be able to collect enough light.
I have the Z6ii I enjoy it I find the autofocus to be a bit hit or miss I hope the z6iii improves this system I’m no pro but get good photos and I can tell the system needs help
I cant see Nikon putting 2 Expeed 7 in the Z6iii - cost and it doesn't need it. I can live with 24mp if it gives me better dynamic range and low light performance. But I would like to see 2 USB and a full sized HDMI port... 🦘
The dual expreed7 is a rumor.. like all the other rumors. Some suggest the Chinese translation was referring to the already existing dual channels in the expeed7. Hopefully we will know for sure in the next 2-3 mos ish.
You lost me with the “the Zf is just a Z6ii in a different box” while they share the same sensor: auto focus, pixel shift, way better IBIS and several other innovations that some people have already called it the de facto Z6iii, which it isn’t.
You know sometimes I might not communicate as clearly. What I meant to say was the Zf doesn’t have a lot of new tech in it. It has an old Z6Ii sensor, and an existing Expeed7 processor that’s been around for a couple of years. It is true the Zf has some improvements in ibis. So that’s new. In contrast, the Z6iii is going to have a brand new sensor that we have not seen before.
The content of this Z6iii speculation is definitely better than that on the channels of the channels of 'The usual Nikon speculation suspects'. Nice one!
Many thanks.. I appreciate this!! I certainly try to be as informative as I can with rumors. So many of the videos on rumors really say nothing.. other than to restate the rumors.
Interesting thoughts on the Z6 III, with regards to cooling, based on the internal photos I’ve seen of the Z8, the chips all share the same heatsink, adding another chip doesn’t make sense as the Z6 III while stated to be a bit larger than the Z6 II, it will be smaller than the Z8. For what Expeed 7 can do, the Z6 III would not require 2 processors. It’s more likely it will get some method of active cooling, to allow for higher codecs to be recorded internally. Lately, I’ve been thinking it’s more likely Nikon will introduce a new video focused camera before the Z6 III. If it gets a new sensor, it may end up staying at 24 MP with better dynamic range performance. As far as a Z9 H, maybe Nikon will do a global shutter sensor with better performance than Sony’s A9 III. Sony’s announcement seemed a bit rushed so maybe Nikon is coming with a similar sensor but Sony wanted the “world first” title. I could be wrong but that’s what I thought when Sony made A9 III announcement in 2023.
Good thoughts here. I’m hoping the rumor regarding better cooling design does not include a fan of some sort. That would give me pause a bit. Hopefully we will all know in a month or two.
@@kellysparksphotography In the old days I would be saying the same thing however, now that I’ve been shooting video and have been doing 1 takes and chopping up the videos to post, I have seen how hot having a fan in hot climates, can cause the camera to overheat. I can see a fan like the system in the Panasonic LUMIX S5 II as a good option or they could use a screw on version as on the Fuji SH2. More people are looking for video in hybrid cameras and as manufacturer start to cram in more higher level of recording, the need to keep them cool is making the use of a fan a possibility.
Yea.. I hear you. In prior lives I worked on outdoor WiFi radio systems, and if a design required a fan, it was pretty much dismissed, and all the chips in the bom (build of materials) had to be milspec rated. :)
Let's be honest, everybody is just guessing. What we do know is that the Z6III will be better than the ZF, but not as good as the Z8. This means that the main flaw of the Z6III, autofocus, will be vastly improved. Everything else is a bonus, of which everyone will have their favourite. Mine would be a stacked sensor purely to get the sensor guard. This ties in with the 24MP Z9H theory.
Love your video, here is some food for thought. 1.Both rumour sources in NR state 24.5mp, Matt Irwin who might be in the know, appears to lean towards 24.5mp in a recent video. 2. Video is All Important in today’s cameras, but a high frame rate generates a great deal of heat, hence rumour has it that the body will be larger & heavier than the Zf/Z6ii bodies. I would love 4K 120. 3. The “dual” Expeed7 may actually be a version 2 of the Expeed7 designed for better performance & better cooling. 4. Z6’s are Nikon’s line of low light performers. 5. The Z6iii is expected to be in the $2,500 US range, $500 more than the Zf. 6. I hope this new sensor will have a read out speed of 10 ms or less & I have stated my hopes earlier on other sites. The long of it is, you can’t have a camera with those features, price, & be close to 30-33mp. I love to crop my pictures but if I can up-scale a cropped & superior 24.5mp image using Topaz AI, I can live with 24.5mp.
EXPEED 7 is two EXPEED processors in one chip and each has its own I/O channels. There will likely be a high bandwidth connection between them in the chip. Nikon advertise the mainboard architecture with this chip as "dual path". That applies to the Z 9, Z 8, and now Z f too, because of the EXPEED 7. While people now have translated the word "dual" in a Chinese patent application this is meaningless. And, note, with two EXPEED 6, a Z 6ii or Z 7ii also has dual paths because that's the only way you can make a 'two discrete processor' architecture work. It's extremely unlikely that a presumed Z 6iii will get a more powerful processor than the current EXPEED 7, it's also unlikely it will be a toned down sensor (because then that would have been in the Z f too). The "dual" thing is called in my language "a storm in a glass of water", or by Shakespeare "much ado about nothing". With a CFexB slot and SD-UHS-II, a Z 6iii will be faster than a Z f. Different zources say the EXPEED 7 is between 10 and 20 times as powerful as the 2 EXPEED 6 processors in the Mk ii Z 6/7. Look at the firmware bin file size of the Z 7ii and compare to the Z 8 - the latter is twice as big. My hypothesis is that this is the database for recognition AI (that is the result from learning AI - learning AI must work under guidance telling it what it gets right and wrong and that does not happen in camera).
I honestly can't imagine a Z6 III with only ~24mp, regardless of any other features. Price-wise it competes directly with Sony's A7 IV which has 33mp and currently sells for $2.500. Plus, if (and imho it's a big and constantly growing if) Nikon releases a Z5 II, what would technologically separate the Z5 II and the Z6 III without collapsing sales of one of the two bodies? Image resolution would be the first and most immediate thing I can think of.
I’m not a 100% convinced the H is a global shutter. Twice as fast as the Z8/9 would be ~2ms readout speed or 1/500th of a sec. I hope we will all know soon.
Technology has a price, similarly a product has a perceived price which a customer is willing to pay... Moreover, mirrorless bodies are now moving towards a benchmark of 45MP in FX range & 33MP in DX APSc range... The manufacturer's should be taking note of this and release their products... Affordable price means happier customer...
I don’t see dual-sensors in the Z6III, but I could be wrong. Would love the extra horsepower so I hope I am 🙂 I think a 24mp stacked / no mechanical shutter is a possibility. Or, a 33mp BSI / mechanical shutter. I think I’d prefer the latter. Still a possibility it’s the same foundation as the Zf. Global shutter’s not happening in their lineup yet, I keep hearing comments about that. My best guesses. Looking forward to the announcement!
Having moved from a Z6ii to a Z8 as my main shooter I don’t see myself upgrading my second shooter (Z6ii) to the Z6iii. Unless it does low light significantly better. Because from the sounds of it the new camera won’t outperform my Z8 in AF which was my only real problem with the Z6 and Z6ii and main reason I went to the Z8
Yea, if I was in your position I would stick with my setup. I didn’t buy the Z8 or the Z9 because they were too expensive and too big. Many of course hope the Z6iii will hit the sweet spot, albeit it’s clearly going to cost $500 ish more than the Zf.
I love your thought process. I never thought of it that way. I have the Z8 and a Z6ii. Love the performance and iq of the Z8 but I’m not convinced of the image quality when it comes to to live stage performance photography.
