Theodicy, God and Suffering - A debate between Dinesh D'Souza and Bart Ehrman 

I also lost my son at the age of only 14 and yes "the he is in a better place" saying pisses me off to no end because the best place was with his mother and I. And its gods plan. Well his plan sucks and I'm very angry with god

Anthony Falante Exactly!!! There’s no better place for a child than with the parents. I totally understand, today marks 3 years without my son. I struggle with God and faith too. cannot get how a good and loving, all powerful God who could keep our kids from dying but sat in silence and did nothing, and then prepare an everlasting hell to send people to? i wouldn’t do that to my worst enemy.

It will be 9 years this october and it still hurts as if it was yesterday

❤️

Yeah I'm a Christian but that whole "he's in a better place" is kind of annoying

Thank you.

thanks

Thanks

😁😁😁😁

We often hear of a gang of thieves plotting to rob and murder a man, and laying a plan to entice him out that they may execute their design, and we always feel shocked at the wickedness of such wretches; but what must we think of a book that describes the Almighty acting in the same manner, and laying plans in heaven to entrap and ruin mankind? Our ideas of His justice and goodness forbid us to believe such stories, and therefore we say that a lying spirit has been in the mouth of the writers of the books of the Bible. -Thomas Paine

He said animals aren't cognitive that they are being tortured and that animals are not torturing.

Why?

@@yeboscrebo4451 If you don't think animals are capable of suffering then I don't think you have the empathy or intelligence to know what suffering is.

The cat plays with the mouse, because of a full stomach and on the fact that his animality has been tamed by ...domesticity. Cats in the wild or without a supporter, hence on an empty stomach, will not play with the mouse but will... eat it.

@Miguel Cisneros Thanks for your comment. Just a few questions, if you don't mind: (1) What is secular psychology? (2) How do you define suffering? (3) Can you please provide some academic/scientific references that show that animals are not capable of suffering and motivation and emotions?

13 years ago dad

I am impressed, thanks for your beautiful honesty

I'm an atheist, and I opened the comments to say this was moment when Bart won the debate. It brought tears to my eyes as I thought of my younger brother who was killed by a drunk driver.

Why does the answer have to be complex?

@@abelpap5313 Are you really asking that question? You're not just trolling? Have you ever lost someone you love?

@@CharlesB-NGNM Yes, the question is genuine, why is it necessary for the answer to be complex? What makes an easy answer cruel or untrue? Is it cruel because it is untrue or can it be simultaneously cruel and correct?

Why would you even ask such a silly question??? You probably believe in the imaginary explosion that came from nothing and made everything. That's just complete nonsense. But a life form with infinite power and intellect is outside the realm of possibility???? That at least makes sense.

@@optimus1212 So answer me this.....who created your “God”? And please don’t answer with a kindergarten platitude like “he has always existed”. or “he exists outside of space and time”. You do understand that those answers are just as vague and valueless as the Big Bang theory (you clearly don’t understand) is to you. I tend to leave those subjects I am not qualified to give opinions on to the experts in their fields, theoretical and partical physicists etc. Much like I leave the theological questions to the shamans, con-men and TV evangelists.

@@fredc.meekinsjr.5553 Why would a being who is described as omnipotent and omniscient have a creator? Isn't that what a GOD would be? I see you can't get your mind to think outside of time and space. I guess since you reject the unlimited possibilities of an entity who lives outside of those parameters then there is no point of discussing it. The big bang is a theory and completely nonsensical. Can you show me anywhere in nature where explosions do anything other than destroy? Seriously..... It's complete cognitive dissonance.

@@MostAmericansAreClueless1 Actually I research a lot. I don't talk about things I am not capable of articulating. Besides, once you start character assassinating your opponent you've already lost. Good job. If that's your best retort then you need to really work on your skills. Seriously.

If the universe and possible worlds are infinite. Then you are infinite. There's a version of you at present not reading this comment or eating a raspberry reading this comment to infinity... If the universe is finite and ordered as it appears to be at present then there is a Creator. Cause and effect establish that. I'd refer to the ontological argument and khalam argument which I find logical and consistent with our observations. We call that thing, which precedes the known and unknown universe. "God". There can be no predecessor to that which precedes all.

I thought I saw that quote attributed to mark twain, it was Voltaire? Well it sounds like something either one could have said lol

laws of God and plate tectonics are two different subjects genius.

@@westannex1655 Since God made the earth could be same subject just different book.

Lol

he is a grifter....("D'SOuza".....)

He should feel really stupid saying these things if we can`t understand it why follow it

how lol. But what standard

I think the problem he is citing is not the act of questioning per say . He appears to argue that we are both misguided and imprudent when we ask the question with an implicit assumption The implicit assumption is:- "if God is all that powerful , surely God could have easily prevented it from happening . Yet , we have the problem . So , either God doesn't exist or it's not omnipotent "

Why doesn’t God do something about it? Why doesn’t God intervene? God did intervene! God provided the ultimate answer. His son Jesus. We live in a sinful evil world. This world isn’t the promise of God. Heaven is the perfect promise of God. We as human beings are to fix our world because we are the ones that screwed it up in the first place. But at the same time what one person considers a problem may not be a real problem and so what others consider an answer to that problem may actually be a problem in itself to the other people.

He had to answer the question as that was the topic of the debate

@@jeffreybonderman6897 k. As Ehrman pointed out, this does literally nothing to address suffering caused by natural disasters, where no human could possibly be blamed for screwing up the world to cause it.

@@Keira_Blackstone We could be a fallen people capable of inflicting pain on each other and still be able to survive in space. Haldane pointed out if god created anything in his own image, it'd be beetles (bacteria or stars would also be good candidates)

I think that these debates help the audience more than the speakers.

Dinesh D'Souza is a hate spewing clown!!

He’s a dishonest person to the core, and probably lacking in empathy like those he shills for.

@@skeptic_al Exactly!!!!!!

This is a good and honest statement. Does not mean the statement is true. When some people watch videos like this you come in with your own background and preconceived ideas that block your mind from accepting the truth. In the times of old God wiped out the human race brcause we were a lot worse than we are now. And back then they lives for hundreds of years. There anything that is happening here on earth is extremely temporary compared to notion of infinite future. When you look at the bigger picture and first give yourself a chance to understand that this place and universe can not create itself and that if you insist that by your faith you choose to believe it can... you really need to seek to find the answers. You go on living your life and spending less than x amount of time finding the real answers. I've spent over a decade seeking the truth. Developing the quests is only the first part... you need to find the answer. You should not sit still and believe that you already have the answer. Now, in the video he answers your question very clearly. I've watched this video over 10 times. You've maybe watched it once. He states very clearly the idea of having a whimsical universe. Secondly, he expressed that it was not always the way it is now and God created freewill to choose. All of this is in the video. You don't like the truth and want to sit in your sin? So be it. But I wouldn't go around spreading that message if you haven't even spent more than a week pondering what you have just said. Go and seek what the bible is, what it's medsages are, what the prophecies are, what the time frame is that everything happened, what happened to the apostles at the last moments of their lives, excetra... The list goes on. It's more than months of constant research. Once you go through it all you will determine well maybe I don't have the answers. Hopefully then you will have the desire to seek the truth. The things that happen here on earth is more traumatizing than it is suffering. The real question is... How is God going to comfort these people after they have already suffered enough torment. Whatever that answer is... it's going to be a good one. If you are going to insist on not listening to the truth at least come up with better things to say. I am wondering what exactly is so different before and after the flood. I can only imagine all of those dinosaurs running around. Why God made those creatures and decided to take them out and a lot more better questions than a 2 second thought you strawman and can read people's minds. Seek the truthful answers. Don't create your own question and answer it in the same sentence. It's not a truthful question. And by this time if you are still stuck in your ways that it's been over 11 months now... don't wait until the end of your life to seek out the truth. Give yourself some honest time to find the answer. You don't want to just go around with your hand covering your eyes. Pray to God he will show you the truth. Judgment will come and you're going to stand before God and you tell me... what are you going to say to God? If you have the capability to post this message you my friend are lucky and blessed. But truly who is blessed? You going to hell or that person who suffered temporarily that inherent the kingdom of heaven? The person who suffered has the desire to say "God help me." Count that as faith vs where you will go if you do not accept the free gift. Who is the one that suffers? You tell me.

@Benjamin J Park LOL!! I didn't even see his reaction when I first saw this. That was fantastic!

@VOTERFRAUD BIDEN Are you able to provide any adult commentary?

@VOTERFRAUD BIDEN you don’t know anything about me or what I know how to do. I’ll repeat my question: are you capable of adult commentary (or dialogue)?

@VOTERFRAUD BIDEN yeah. Ok.

@VOTERFRAUD BIDEN huh?

Listening to you criticize with zero refutes or suggestions... Is torture.

@@bquick6317 I dont need to refute Dsouza. He does a pretty good job refuting himself.

D'Souza's argument about what a cat does to a mouse not being torture is such a strange argument. Emotional pain is bad but extreme physical pain is always worse. I've had a few rats in my garage recently so I've been putting out snap traps. The traps kill about half outright but about half are wounded and then need to be finished off. Imagine lying a floor with your spine and rear legs crushed for 6 hours before death. There's no reason to think that other mammals feels less pain.

It was funny to hear someone who belives in Adam and Eve talk about "modern science".

Yeah, you didn't listen to his argument at all; why even bother comment?

Agreed. He is a phony and dishonest person.

l know! they call it “redemptive” suffering. I call it BS.

Yup that about sums it up. And yet Christians will insist that god is love.

@@janglandis773Funny a Cancer patient beats Cancer and Thanks God Another Beats Cancer yet is a non believer yet believers prayed for them Who is better here morally?

Though i find it ridiculous When humans can benefit from Hardships of their own and what not it seems they have done the impossible when someone uses God as an example for their reason to actually beat that trial they were in despite immense suffering then Thanking God for strengthening they are delusional ,Sounds like suffering without God in the picture is more applicable despite the fact that humans tend to do almost to nothing to better the suffering of other without involving themselves in

welcome to the village of independent thought.

Reminds me of my dog who has a mind of it's own and stubborn. Until someone decides that they may be wrong and look at things from another perspective their minds will continue to remind locked in their own view of things. Have you changed your mind in the last 3 years, Dec 25, 2021 ?

Imagine thinking Dinesh has the brains to even be considered slick

You started out in Bart’s corner and never changed…you were biased from the beginning.

@@mazsroy9 He also thought Dinesh would win but changed his mind after listening to the debate.

We must have been watching a different debate

Bart got beat so bad, he was singing We are the World out of tune in his final remarks

Yo Barts TALKING AS LOUD AS HE CAN tactic is the best he could muster, and Dinesh toyed with him. The militant Atheistism of 2002 to 2013 was crude, arrogant as hell and distastefully immature. They won brownie points with a small minority turning off other atheists who measured there heroes performance by the measure of insults. Thats not debating that's entertaining a crowd of angry little cheer leaders bent on dissing where there answers are missing.

Have we every found a Hitler Lion King that says Hey" I want to wipe out all the Zebras. Bart well cats kind of torture mice for hours, for hours on end So I believe Hitler was just a over sized cruel cat

You wish

I believe you are correct in that Bart has been used by god to strengthen faith in him and salvation through Jesus Christ. His long history in education in the word of god and his lack of faith in god has led him exactly where he is now in this debate as gods tool.

​@sabrositocooking8680 "...used by god..." How utterly repulsive and demeaning. You may not agree with Bart, but there's no need to be rude and insulting.

@@tulpas93 "humility is a Christian virtue" my ass am I right?

@Chickennuggie1498 The whole "I have a personal relationship with the creator of the universe, and you can't have one unless you agree with me." has got to be the pinnacle of arrogance!

Can you give timestamps for your quotes?

If you have ever had a wet fart in public then you will prove to yourself that there is no intelligent designer

@@drmontague6475 How could uou evolve a human body so sophisticated that it CAN release the gas produced by retain foods, as the body absorbs nutrients and pro c essential the waste, by which farting is one of the strange, yet magnificent means to accomplish the processing g of waste. Plus one bodies actually, regularly heal themselves; cuts heal. We just apply bandages, alcohol, whatever. T b e body coagulation it's own blood. Then heals itself in time. That's anaccident? Or evolution? Consider the law of entropy.Dinesh's delivery is/should be secondary to his message. But if his must.#!

@@stephencarter6392 It's amusing how a god helps you find your car keys. "It's a miracle!!!!!", said no amputee ever.

Dinesh’s position is squarely centered on political agendas. He uses god just like all humans have used god throughout history. God is useful for controlling the gullible

Correct and that's what the bible says and it also says the fool says there is no god because its so painfully obvious he exists.

@@RepentTherefore if god existed he would be perceived or at least experienced by believers, non believers and fools alike. And if you refer to the Bible to prove god’s existence then Marvell comics are proof of the existence of Batman, Superman and Green lantern.

@@walterdaems57 lol, how dumb. millions of believers across the world experience god. how many prophecies in marvel comics have come true? to assume that non believers would also experience god goes against what the bible says. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. god doesn't reveal himself to the proud, but to the humble. the reason you don't experience god, is because god literally designed it that way. so your objection is already talked of in scripture, and addressed. if god was present and visible to everyone, everyone would feel compelled to obey. you would have to be retarded not too. but because of his apparent absence, it makes faith possible, and also true love possible. god does not desire the love of automatons, but man, freely given, not coerced.

@@walterdaems57 any other dumb objections that illustrate your ignorance?

@@walterdaems57 i have something here for you sinner. repent of your foolish worship of sadhguru and other dumb mystics who can tell you about nothing. read the scriptures and gain real wisdom. there are 2 proofs for god. creation itself, and the moral law upon mans heart. not only this, but if you repent, you can also feel the indwelling of the holy spirit. there is no reincarnation, and the universe is not eternal. 14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them (the laws of god written on the heart) 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 SINCE WHAT MAY BE KNOWN ABOUT GOD IS PLAIN TO THEM, BECAUSE GOD HAS MADE IT PLAIN TO THEM. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (creation testifies of god, there is no creation without creator.) 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 ALTHOUGH THEY CLAIMED TO BE WISE< THEY BECAME FOOLS 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. did you know GOD IS PLEASED THAT YOU THINK THE PREACHING IS FOOLISH 20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, GOD WAS PLEASED THROUGH THE FOOLISHNESS OF WHAT WAS PREACHED TO SAVE THOSE WHO BELIEVE. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

damn Bart you let a perfect opening pass right by when you said you had no opinion on the foreknowledge question because we all know if we just tweak Dinesh's example to more accurately reflect the problem of suffering he would be forced to admit he would intervene to prevent his daughter's suffering. He wouldn't respect her free will or her choice and he wouldn't dare to suggest there was value to her suffering if for example she was instead of being born to him, born into a brothel in Calcutta.

Always moving the Goal Post The Christian Believer

The Very thing the Bible Bangs on About is Sin were did it come from still Hasn't t Been Answered, Know One Seems To Know,Well Hello there ,,Wakey. WAKEY

This is a standard Christianity 101 answer. With a scripture thrown in. Funny, the most important Book we should know, is something that we will never know. This is why their are so many different Christian cults, reading the same few scriptures, which totally change, dependent on whose interpreting them. A On top of which they love telling other people they are going to "go to hell." Their fear tactics ruin lives, especially a child who is exposed to this lie. Let's not forget the countless versions of the Bible. The Countless changing of the Bible & it all boils down to one thing. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

@@kimberlyjohnson7409 neither did the people that wrote that book.

Dinesh is a conman & criminal & is literally against everything Christ taught us & is everything Christ was against. You are a FOOL if you think Dinesh is right about ANYTHING. I’ll pray for you.

I challenge dinesh to debate with a hindu vedantin. He will run off pooping all the way.

agreed. the christian apologists with their revisionist-version of US history, tend to summarily ignore the well-documented statements of vocal atheists including Paine and Franklin and deists like Jefferson. They were NOT "christians" at least in the current definition thereof, and some were quite defiant of such political pandering.

God plans the murder of our faults that prevent us from re entering paradise. Paradise is perfection. Faults such as revenge keep us out. Paine is the son of satan who says that instant satisfaction comes with revenge where forgiveness is quite difficult but it's rewards are eventual perfect happiness. I was blown away by the 2 black ladies who said we forgive you to the creep that had just killed several of their church members.

Absolute Idiocy, either you are 10 years old, or a troll. And you used a Islamic first name and paired it with a Hindi last name.

@@davidwadsworth8982 there are quite a lot of people in india and probably also some in pakistan who have both hindu and moslem family lineage. I also come from a mixed family; my dad was apparently some kind of republican and my mom was a registered democrat.

@@mysticwine great, so maybe you can explain why god (supposedly a brilliant creator, see...) creates "paradise" but does not apparently but her own creations in it. Instead she creates a profoundly inferior place and her humans (supposedly made in her own image) are placed there. She designs them to be inherently flawed, then judges them for not "earning" a place in this ideal environment, by behaving as they were created. What possible purpose could this serve. For extra credit: why would she expect to be eternally praised for that, if the purpose is not explained.

right out of the gate Deshoesa claims Might makes right.

I have never understood the argument that the existence of evil is a problem. If God believes in progress, agency must be preeminent. If there is good, there must be evil. If there is right, then there must be wrong. So why would the consequences of ones agency, both good and evil be so confusing to those desperate to eliminate God?

@@donquijote6030 if god is all powerful, then he must also be all weak.

@@FoamySlobbers - Why would he be all weak if he were all powerful? Perhaps you are referring to merciful.

@@donquijote6030 your answer is in the question. can god make a rock so big he can't pick up?

So how exactly do you reconcile that with being a Christian?

@@DontDrinkthatstuffwatch james white and you'll see how he schooled Bart Herman everything came into limelight why we believe in the Bible

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ncYMtxa0wkg.html I dont agree with you GOD in christianity created all these.

Not true. Hindus believe in karma.

You lie when you claim Dinesh is lying. To make an honest assertion of lying, you need to prove he *knew* this was false. While I don't make the same claim, in any case, I googled 'dharma' and I don't think you understand what it is: "Dharma is an important term in Indian religions. In Hinduism it means 'duty', 'virtue', 'morality', even 'religion' and it refers to the power which upholds the universe and society."

@@everyzylrian dinesh lies for a living.. his career is bullshit XD you poor idiot

Forgiveness exists outside of religion though. Apes ask each other for forgiveness, you can find a article from Berkeley online reflecting this. It's an occurrence not unique to humans or religion for that matter

Ha, Dec 25 , 2021, and look now after 6 years of the spiraling down of humanity.

@@davebonar1 what “spiraling down” do you mean? That of the abuse of religion by the right wing? Those that have forgotten what Christ Himself said needed to be done to gain entry to heaven? Did you feed the hungry and provide water to Those that are thirsty? Did you help the immigrant and give a place to stay to those without ? Did you visit people in Hospitals and prisons? These were HIS requirements to enter heaven. If we’ve strayed it is certainly from these words in the Bible said by Christ Himself, do you agree?

He is not in heaven. He is in the grave totally unconscious waiting to see his resurrection. ECCL 9: 4-10

if your truly in pain, why wouldnt u want a loved one being in peace and happinenss at another place?

@@FM-dm8xj Does it matter what I want? I seek truth, proven truth. and Nobody can give me evidence beyond a shadow of doubt of where my child is or where we go after we die. Truth may not be what I want but I’ll take truth over fairy tales.

@@nicholasmburu1198 that is not an arguement.

May be you should atop being materialistic You should say ! You gave ! You took ! THY NAME be blessed

Why do you say that? He is a genius

@@debras1503 Genii win Nobel Prizes,what has he ever won..he badly lost here...any Ancient Historian or Scientist would destroy him..another self deluded Apologist pretending to know something unknowable

@@debras1503 The Theist doesn't grasp reality.. Apologetics and semantic nonsense...arnt facts ...the Gospels are historical Fiction...not facts...the Resurrection never happened based on modern historical methods...so he is deeply deluded ...the Bible has serious contradictions which can't be harmonised,unless one is lying

@@debras1503 He is also an Adulterer so a Hypocrite!

Hahahahahaha that's funny and btw he made the comment about checking for his wallet when Dinesh speaks......it's obviously metaphor about him being a con man..... like a snake oil sales man ya know?? Get it??

You laugh because you're afraid that what he says is true

Dinesh has all these funny little allegories, metaphors and anecdotes that ultimately have nothing to do with the discussion. It's funny watching him try to apologize for being a Christian in the face of ALL the facts.

It's astounding, and scary.

Yet now... when most people today are atheist and agnostic... there is even more Mental Illness then before... You re tar d’s need to go back to church honestly.

Dude, the bible promises that 100 billion humans will suffer in an Egyptian style lake of fire for eternity for the simple fact of never having heard about Jesus. ;-)

@@schmetterling4477 Sounds fair to me.

@@janglandis773 You will be one of them. ;-)

@@schmetterling4477 I was being sarcastic. People burning in a lake of fire because they never heard of Jesus is a cruel and unjust punishment.

@@janglandis773 Is it? :-)

I understand your pain Thomas Donnelly and I am truly sorry for you. I have lost loved ones in my life as well, some suddenly, some not. I also understand how you could harbor anger towards someone like Mr D'Souza who so plainly speaks of life after death and seems to disregard the pain that the loss of a loved one can bring. I feel that this is misguided and a case of misunderstanding. While I believe he surely could be more sympathetic to someone who is grieving. I too understand the peace that knowing you will see that loved one again, can bring. I understand that me saying sorry is of no concequence and offers no real consolation. Though, I truly pray that you can find the peace that God can bring to you. The promise of existence after death as well as being with our loved ones again. I pray that God works in your life and brings you close to Him, taking away your pain and bringing acceptance and joy that your loved ones will never again experience pain or suffering. I do not claim to know everything, hardly do I even claim to know anything. Though I hope to enjoy the experience of learning forever and I pray that I will get to share in the Joy of you and everyone else who finds peace in our Lords plan. I hope that you will listen to this words that I write to you as I have no alterior motive. It does not benefit me in any way as I am sure you would agree. I though am a follower of Christ and his love cannot be contained in me, it must be shared. As this is the life of a true Christian, the betterment of the lives of others. I want to leave you to reflect on these two verses Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. The choice should not be made lightly. One offers life eternal, the other eternal damnation. Don't be fooled. The choice is in your mind and thus your actions. May God be with you and comfort you.

Devin Van Mersbergen I'm very happy that you admitted your conclusions were based on "feelings" and not any imperical evidence. First, I'm not in any emotional pain at the moment, although I have certainly experienced loss and will again as all humans do. Second, I reread my post several times b/c I'm certainly prone to mistakes & writing can be very subjective, but I can't figure out how you concluded that I was angry or harbored any anger towards Dinesh. I enjoy Dinesh even if I do believe his thinking is immature, but that is common for us all in our pre 45 lives. Third, you actually demonstrated my point, although your remarks may have been sincere, you weren't able to offer sympathy without offering your belief system in conjunction and that was my entire point. The stories in the Koran are identical to the bible, imagine if you were grieving the loss of a loved one and a person approached you and offered condolences with the addendum that your pain could be dampened if you left behind your childish Christian beliefs, that btw, you only possess b/c as a child you were exposed to them by the adults in your community and now is your chance to accept Allah & his one true messenger? Would you feel his condolences were sincere? Or replace that guy w/ an atheist in the same scenario. "I'm so sorry for your loss but here is your opportunity to act like an adult and investigate your childish belief system that there is an afterlife and realize that just like Islam, Christianity stole everything in the bible from earlier faiths and these stories have historically been used to control illiterate, agrarian peasant communities and if it weren't for the emporer of Rome calling the council of Niceea to codify the modern bible no one would even know about Christianity to today, it's time to grow up." Would that make you feel as though that person really cares, they came to their beliefs as honestly as you apparently did, or would you feel as though they took an unsolicited opportunity to validate their own beliefs system in the midst of their own grief? And that was my main point, are you making it about them or you? And in my humble opinion, offering sympathy, a hug, is there anything I can do for you? And then actually following up that offer with some tangible help is making it about the person in need, that was my point. And finally, since you quoted the bible, you can't read into it, you must read out of it and there is a big difference, you don't pick & choose passages and fit them into a context, if you are biblical Christian then you must follow it 100%, Jesus owned no property, did not engage in premarital sex, you must forgo all worldly possessions live by that example. There are many concrete injunctions and you must follow every last one or you can not claim that book. Strict diet, no shell fish or pork for example, no blended fabrics, blasphemy is punishable by death, no divorce, no masturbation, no shaving if you are a man, must be circumcised, if married, the wife must live away from the family during menstruation, judging or gossiping commits you to Hell- that's in Matthew, you must hold no grudges and forgive everyone, especially the people that hurt you the most.... I hope I was more clear this time, I'm not a an atheist either, if you really care about the suffering of others sincerely offer sympathy then quietly demonstrate your veracity by doing something for that person, believe me doing goes a lot further than talking and the example you set will attract people and then they will ASK about your faith, then you can share it.... doing a drive by preaching while someone is vulnerable only sew the seeds of discontent.....

Wait, so this wall of text boils down to your being offended by the WAY someone might be trying to console you after losing someone you loved? So because they put their arm around you and say, "You'll see her on the other side," that person, in your eyes, is climbing atop some high horse? Tell me you're fucking kidding. Maybe they truly believe that, and are absolutely sincere, with no theological motivation whatsoever; it's just a heartfelt, human-to-human sentiment. And since you admitted that you don't even know whether the afterlife is true one way or the other, how could you have any objection to it? You would take issue with a person offering genuine compassion to you, because you opt to see things in a political light. That's some sorry shit.

Black Death 1347 sorry about the long post. I'm not referring to what you described. Obviously heartfelt sentiment is always welcome & appreciated. I was referring to an occasion where someone takes advantage of a tragedy to propagate their personal beliefs- whatever they might be - and basically make it all about themselves, unfortunately I experienced this recently and Dinesh's comments touched a nerve. B/c I chose not to give details all that text can be subjective and/or ambiguous & I apologize for that....

Thomas, I see how you could see this as me taking an opportunity to preach at you. This is misunderstood. Wether or not someone could use this type of circumstance to fence a religion is neither here nor there as I truly did intend heartfelt sentiment. What you said however, was very well thought out and it truly made me rethink my approach next time the opportunity is presented to attempt to console someone. You don't have to believe me and honestly it makes no difference to me either way, though I only intended to present an opportunity for contemplation. While I will agree that Christianity and Islam both share many similarities, it is the differences that are important. True Christianity never preaches the hating of anyone other than satan and his followers. The same cannot be said for Islam and further, is responsible for the numerous deaths of its own people.

I totally beg to differ because I really believe that the reason for suffering on Earth is for the fact that man does not know God and because man does not know God because man has free will this is also for the evil in the world notice that evil is also in the world and suffering is in the world also because if God was in the world with us there would be no suffering but man chooses to have a world without God hence why the suffering and this is what's the atheist fails to recognize the atheist says he doesn't even know there is a God and that's quite arrogant for you to live a life eat a man's food enjoy all the multifacets of life but you don't even know if the guy exist and the reason why you don't know is because you don't want to know and you don't ask the question and then you rather blame him for all the choices that you make and those causes of suffering in the world. First of all who causes most of the suffering in the world? Man! How can man blame God because God doesn't stop him from harming other people? People starve because of wars and people who controlled regions of land. Kids start because man neglects those kids. As the Indian guy was saying it's Christian folk who give more than any atheist so atheist really doesn't care about suffering else he would do something to alleviate the suffering. An atheist only cares about himself it's like the atheist philosopher Thomas Hobb says man are inherently evil and selfish. So mankind is a selfish evil entity if you want to call it and this causes suffering in the world because we can all help each other but we don't. It's the Christian that has to be reminded by his faith that God gave His only begotten son and so we learn to give as a result.

@T And Me Nor can you prove He isn't there, and you have no alternate explanation for existence that can be proven.

@@albertdepeal9658 As Denish already admitted, it is not our burden of proof to show that he is NOT there, it is on you to show that he IS. Science has already offered your alternative.

@@Eric_01 So where's the proof of the alternative explanation? I take it you're referring to materialistic evolution which genetic science shows is, at best, highly improbable. Which is why I indicated it cannot be proven.

@@albertdepeal9658 Seriously? Where's the proof of scientific research and discovery? It won't be found up your ass, which is where your head is. You are clearly an imbecile and I'm not wasting my time with you.

Guilty

If you've ever seen or heard anything from him before, you'd know that he's , on a good day, just Trump or Pence or any privileged little fascist fuck who knows and can do nothing whatsoever.

no, i like to listen to both sides

@@davidhinkley you are pitiful

Only listening to one side. Good luck with that.

Wow Chris is so smart

I bet even trump can't stand this tool

lately it comes out that tectonics are active on mars and venus and possibly even the moon, which hetertofore was thought to have a solid core. This battle of theology is not over and is not going well for the christian apologists.

@XICODECOPA yeshua had no authority to give the slave his freedom. he was, according to the story, owned by a roman citizen. yeshua was not a roman citizen nor did he own the slave. freeing the slave would have been totally up to the roman. that was the law at the time.

What an idiot d'Souza is. Using simple metaphors to support his view is infantile in a debate at this level unless you aspire to be a prophet of the ignorant.

It was a terrible example in multiple ways- if there was this consistent small voice telling men not to have sex with multiple women why so many men with multiple wives in the Bible?? I guess god changes his mind… completely overturns idea of an all powerful/perfect being giving us an unchanging morality

D’Souza is militantly anti-animal. He had a debate a few years ago with Peter Singer and said some of the most vile shit I’ve ever heard about other animals and basically just smugly smiled about how this was the way his god made the universe.

this self-serving adolescent takes us back to the 17th century, to Descartes' dumb idea of animals as machines only

Actually, I think you misunderstood or you haven't studied animal behavior. I am a follower of Christ, and at the same time dedicated most of my life to animals. I argued 30 yrs ago that animals feel pain, before the scientific community acknowledged that they do. In the case of the cat & mouse- the mouse feels pain, fear- natural instincts, but neither animal understands the concept of death. They react naturally in the moment. The animal can't foresee the future, beyond learned behavior.

@@jameschild1321 what do you mean by mice can’t see the future? Like, do you think they can’t make calculated predictions about what might happen?

@@jameschild1321 oh, get off your high horse; before the "scientific community"? If you're saying that pain in animals wasn't known in 1981 you're living in your own world. As to death, it could be argued that we barely believe in/understand it either. And that's not to mention the mental contortions involved in 'convincing' ourselves it won't really happen, cuz ya know, OUR souls are immortal

yet does not appear to have recalled those lessons, or just not have learned anything from them.

He won both debates against Hitchens. Facts vs Statements. This debate was no exception.

george cobaleanu You’re a fucking moron if you believe that.

Christopher Hitchens said about Dinesha "as very well matched as we are,...", In regards to debating him. Christopher Hitchens felt Dinesha could go toe to toe with him and was his equal.

@@oldscorp I've watched one of the Hitchens/Dsouza debates, and Dinesh won the substance of the debate. Hitchens won the aesthetic presentation as he always does, the weak minds get all giddy over it

His argument is insanely weak, that's why, so he hides the weakness underneath a thick layer of highfalutin language.

Of what relevance is that in arguing with one who doesn't believe God exists? You reference the Bible to a religious person.

@@emmanuelchinedu8094 when defending the nature and actions of your god, why wouldn't you reference the only "record" of his communication and actions, especially when your opponent is?

Matt James, Dinesh referenced scripture several times in this debate and in every debate he participates in and of this topic especially. He "rambled aimlessly"?? Maybe you should watch the debate again lol.

@@mattjames7430 that's not the only record of his communication. Science and everything in creation are part of record of his communication.

You ever suffer?

@@tesmith47 of course.

When did he contradict himself? After seeing this comment, I restarted the whole debate and actively listened for when Dinesh contradicted himself. I didn't find him contradicting himself once. Please help.

@@christianw.4562 Havent seen it. If Anything he stumbled trying to find words to describe his feelings...

It embarrasses me and makes me angry at Dinesh's disrespect for animals. Typical for those who profess to be Christian, who think human's are the only beings worth anything. That animals have no understanding of what's happing to them.

@@stepheng2054 any christians that believe only humans have value have not studied enough. If anything the bible teaches that life is sacred. Not just humans. On his idea of a human is valued more than a animal; i would assume he means to suggest that a humans personal feelings as a living creature is more attached to a creature of his own species naturally. If you wish to go down the scientifical route that would make complete since as another human benefits your survival most

What is even more comical is a man spending his whole life studying God only to declare He does not exist. And yet he uses Job as fact to make a point.

Do you believed there is nothing??? you will going to be very surprise after you die. You will guaranty that

BRYAN351 You can assume that but I will assume Dinesh does not get it. I hope we agree only Dinesh can set us straight on his actual thoughts.

sonia Mendez "Do you believed there is nothing???" Until someone provides proof there is actually something else then yep!!! "you will going to be very surprise after you die." Do you have prove of that??? I imagine not!!! When you say something of real value we can have a real discussion

Brilliant? Hahahha

yet other apologist figures such as John Lennox and William Lane Craig, DO make that "something from nothing" argument repeatedly and oddly no one seems to call them on it, not even Bart himself so far as I have observed in their various debates. SOMETHING does not come from NOTHING. The big bang was a SINGULARITY not an absence of matter.

Dinesh is not even qualified to argue the subject.

@@gbtusa1325 his entire existence is your first 5 words

I wasn't impressed one iota with the atheist

For the fool has said in their heart, there is no God. I was a hardcore atheist just 6 years ago. And now, because of my many experiences with God, the God of the bible, I would die for my savior, Jesus Christ. So y'all keep thinking y'all know everything, and keep saying to yourself, "I don't need God", because one day, you will realize your ignorance and arrogance, and it will be too late. I pray that God will soften your heart before then. God does not want anyone to go to perdition, but He's also not going to act in a way that is opposite of his character and MAKE you believe in him. He gave free will to us and he would consider it spiritual rape to force himself on ANYONE. So, you have two choices. One, you think you've got enough information to say, na, I'm right. Fine, go to eternal destruction. No one's going to stop you. OR, except the FACT that you DON'T know everything, and give the true and living God of the bible a chance. Grace to you, and salvation from OUR Lord Jesus Christ.

Bart has nothing to say, no point to prove.

Evolution is false. Our modern society is direct proof of that. If evolution were real, not only would there be physical evidence EVERYWHERE, but homosexuality, and the entire LGBT movement would have been bred out of our genealogy centuries ago. The rise of the LGBT community is itself, evidence that evolution is false. It seems you are the one who needs to better understand how evolution WOULD work, if it were real.

@@jeremiah6462 Oh, about homosexuality. Do you know that homosexuality is widespread in wild animals? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

Dinesh does not strike me as one inclined to "learn new things" unless somehow they might serve his political aspirations. This given that the pool he swims in, which flows factually "conservative" and in that pool it is fashionable to hold contempt for education as "elitist", I am not going to hold my breath for Dinesh to exhibit evidence of new insights. Rather I fully expect him to continue to parrot the populist conservative line, since that is what plays well with his party's political base.

@@jeremiah6462 even among conservatives, there are rather bright people and some who are profoundly feeble minded. Evolution is a GRADUAL process, not an instantaneous one. If you expect dramatic special effects, I suggest you watch the Ten Commandments which feature the NRA president parting the red sea. This he seems to oddly do WITHOUT the benefit of a concealed-carry card, so it does require a certain suspension of dis-belief.

@@SurenEnfiajyan some animals eat their own babies and some females even eat the male after reproduction en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_cannibalism Does that make it right? Your argument that acts of homosexuality is right because animals do it kind of backfires because then you should have no problem with human cannibalism or female humans eating their spouse after having sex. Afterall, the animal kingdom does it. That's why humans are different than the animals. We have the cognitive capacity to determine what is right and wrong while other animals do not.

Satan knows the Bible better than most Christians, satan believes in YHWH and YAHUA

He got absolutely wrecked to say the least

I’ve never seen Bart dodge so many questions and concede so many points… if you think Bart did good in this debate you should probably never give your opinion on a debate ever again 😅

I challenge dinesh to debate with a hindu vedantin. He will run off pooping all the way.

I challenge dinesh to debate with a hindu vedantin. He will run off pooping all the way.

Yet you have no grounds or justification for moral right and wrong. For the sake of the conversation I’ll grant you that Gods actions may be evil. To what are you comparing Gods actions though? Yourself? Your own moral compass? You are using the very standard God created to judge God. How contradictory. If you don’t accept the God you don’t accept morality as being anymore than subjective opinion. Meaning there is not “ought” in the world. You ought to listen to your parents. You should not kill. These are subjective without God. Good luck living out that reality.

The golden rule existed before Christianity. And it's is perfect grounds and justification with or without God. I have a 7yt old daughter. The thought of any of the "unpleasant" things that can happen to her is a nightmare to me. Therefore I deem those things "bad." All the horrible things that can happen to me. I deem "bad." My EMPATHY causes me to hold the golden rule and implement it into my life. The vast majority of people would agree to this. Subjective or objective. Who gives a shit. I do what I can to make this world a "better" place. Not because a threat of hell or reward of heaven. But because I am a "good" person. I wish the best for you and your family. Take care...

it just shows to go that Dinesh isn't even familiar with hindu tradition.

Ryan: And the Jesus story is not unique either.

Yes, D’SOUZA took advantage of him being the last speaker to simply throw his typical fallacious non-arguments.

So Bart changed his beginning line from "How many of you have come to see me get creamed?" to "How many of you think you are gonna disagree with me on everything?"., I really enjoy Bart's historical debates, he is very conversational, I should really get my hands on one of his books.

Bart at the end said that life is a gift. A gift from whom?

@Caller ID I'm not sure why you'd brag about misrepresenting someone else's position. Sounds like you're someone that thinks they make a lot of good points.

@@Theprofessorator Ribbit, la Frog! Only thing the French know is running away, soiling themselves, and surrendering their women to better men Oui, oui!

It means that your time on earth is finite, but you are here to exercise your free will, which in turn determines your state in the eternal realm. You don’t have to believe that, but whatever you believe, being wrong on that issue is no small matter…

​@@bkfitnessandcombatives8658 thank you for breaking down for me what I already stated, like you're telling me something I didn't already know. I like how you ever threw the patronizing bit at the end there like you were correcting something I'd said. I know you guys can't read, that's evident in your Biblical Literacy scores, but you don't have to be a dick about being illiterate too.

a lot. two words. count them.

I am glad you have been able to find some peace and I’m so sorry that happened to your son

@@tylerburke1753 Thank you !

It's a geological point he is making, Have you read the book he quoted from ? Are you a geologist ?

@@jonathandutra4831 Who fucking cares? It's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard him say, to insinuate that the plate tectonic structure of Earth, regardless of it's responsibility or role in the creation of life on Earth, is unique. The reason we can't see plate tectonics on other planets has nothing to do with what he is insinuating and everything to do with the fact that our telescopes aren't that advanced yet. Are you fucking high? And won't you feel stupid when the mathematical inevitability that is extra-terrestrial plate tectonics are eventually discovered? :P

​@ralphk1576While I don't like the expression (i.e. hysterical) because of its etymology, hysterical is used colloquially by millions of native English speakers in the way you are refuting. Please remember that dictionaries and "official" grammars are descriptive, not prescriptive. Your personal dictionary just hasn't caught up with how the word is actually being used, a point which has vastly more significance than your assertion. It sucks, but it's already happening. Lo siento!

​@@jonathandutra4831One doesn't need to be a geologist to appreciate how funny some of Dinesh's "arguments" are. No degree in any field is required!

Cap

The good we know will not have meaning and it never did.💀

@@ignipotent7276 like your post? 🤡

@Lee Otherson Glad you liked my "try". Having quelled the temptation to upgrade myself to an "Other dad" (I hate ad hominems) status, a q. springs to mind: Is your use of "pretty obvious" in line with Flatearthers' central argument? Would explain why FE pivot around the religious concept.

@Lee Otherson Dear Lee, my apologies! I couldn't imagine "scientific" held any water to faith folks like you. I suggest that we stop this futile exchange, Merry Xmas to us both!

My sister praises god when she finds her car keys. It don't say anything, but I find it very irritating.

@@janglandis773 Agreed!

Bart was demolished so bad, he was singing We Are the World at the end

@@WarOnHorror 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣

Giving the final thoughts at the end, I see that DeSousa did not read the words that he stated while the other read seamingly word for word from a document in front of him. This offers clear proof as to who conquered the other in this debate.

False

What you said was straight out of your ass .

They can’t………and to what extent? Your telling me a frog knows that it lives on average from 10 to 20 years and when it dies it will NEVER come back? Your really dumb.

You must be joking? Are you high?

@@tarhunta2111 He’s just dying that it’s a debate that has been happening, and will continue to happen, for thousands of years. He’s not saying there isn’t a conclusive answer, he’s simply saying that the rhetoric is similar to what has been said in the past and what will continue to be said in the future.

The difference is that since, Dinesh has been revealed to be an adulterer lol

@@Ninterd2 That has nothing to do with the validity of either argument. You should know better than to use lame ad hominem attacks

​@@Ninterd2, and have Dinesh claimed to be a saint at any time? And you are supposedly without sin! Do not take delight in any person's weakness and do not put any person including yourself on a pedestal. Learn from them.

Well said 👍

"That topic is problematic because consolation is relative" Sure it's "relative" but the data still matters. According to NCBI belief in the afterlife helps people with the anguish of having a loved one pass away. "But that's not the topic at hand, the topic was about whether the Bible & its presentation of God accurately lines up with how the world works." You might want to read the title of the vid chief.

God does have a wonderful plan for us... God is sovereign Not one shall be lost.. I pray you'll have a heart of Flesh

No, atheistic communist scientists in China created the COVID virus which somehow "escaped" from their lab...there's more evidence that it was designed for germ warfare then anything we can imagine...this kind of human rationalization used to create these viruses for study are more dangerous than nuclear weapons...no delivery vehicle needed. Just let people travel. Why has there been no further investigations?

@@patrickwinter7623 you nut.

This needs to be pinned.

thank you :)

Survival instinct only kicks in when an animals are in immediate danger. A human being can be completely removed from physical danger and yet still be painfully aware of their own mortality and succumb to an existential crisis or depression. Animals do not do this

Little Joe, You obviously failed or did not study logic. Watch to the debate again this time try listen to what they say. Bart keeps talking about if there is a God why does he allow suffering. If there is no God why does suffering matter?

If there is no God why is Bart so concerned with suffering.

Bart is concerned with suffering because he believes there is no God to deal with it. If your house is on fire and you know firefighters (God) are not coming, you inmediately do something to save your family. The abscence of God demands human action, unless you don't give a shit in which case you are right: you let your loved ones burn alive. Either way, firefighters (God) are not coming because they do not exist (in Bart's view). In my view, you can have God and suffering at the same time, but I am not Bart, so who cares.

I can't believe Bart didn't call him out on that. Such a stupid comparison.

So right!

Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

i'm sorry for your suffering. i hope that humanity masters genetic problems like that sooner rather than later in spite of science deniers holding back research. it is my hope that one day genetic problems won't exist and people will have more control over their reproduction

@@paulgemme6056 giving platitudes in the face of deep suffering is cruel

@@smitty1647 God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit is man's only hope of genetic problems being solved. A world without sin/evil. The reason genetic problems exist is because of sin/evil. Jesus Christ has promised and is preparing a place where there is no sin, evil or genetic problems. That's the good news of the gospel of grace. No religion needed. Just faith, faith plus nothing. Offering the message of hope, peace, joy and love is not cruel, it is life giving. Real life (spiritual life), eternal life - to know God/Jesus Christ our magnificent creator God. Designer and creator of all things.

@@smitty1647 God/Jesus Christ made this planet perfectly pure (uncontaminated). Man sinned and that's when he began and continues to contaminate this planet. Then when people get sick (genetic problems, cancer, disease, etc..) he wants to blame God/Jesus Christ. Man needs to man up and take the blame for his own doings. Man needs to ask God/Jesus Christ for Grace and Mercy because he (man - all have sinned) is a sinful creature.

Faith is how God and JESUS operate. Choose to believe or not.

You have to be kidding.

@@jackfrosty4674 Yes Faith is required...but it doesn't mean that God doesn't give us good/sufficient evidence of His existence& the validity of His Word. I'm not sure what you're suggesting really.

@@janglandis773 @Jang Landis No I'm not kidding at all. Can you give me an example of what you consider to be one of the 'terrible arguments' that you think Souza gave?

I thought it was pretty funny when he brought up that argument. Bart had just clarified that he was an agnostic because of the problem of evil. Then Dinesh replies, who are we to claim to know we have the answer when there is suffering in the world? I really thought it sounded more like an argument for agnosticism than Christianity.

A very Socialist closing if you ask me…”re distribution of wealth” is Communist , Not American

​@@debras1503You should familiarize yourself with the Declaration of Independence. If you are, perhaps you have no idea how futile the pursuit of happiness is when you are homeless, starving, or suffering from an untreated medical condition and have no money. All of these things can happen to citizens regardless of how hard they work or how law abiding they are. How does a vastly inequitable distribution of wealth and power guarantee the preservation of life and liberty for ALL Americans? It doesn't. It's totally contrary to the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. Perhaps that document isn't American enough for you? I'm sure glad you don't actually get to decide what's American and what's not.

@@debras1503 It's actualy what the early christians in the book of acts did

It is almost like a Jeff Bezos donating $100 to the Red Cross and then the Red Cross saying “Jeff Bezos donated out of his infinite gratuitous love and mercy”

Well isn't that nice you share with Satan the same perspective. Wonderful!

@@stephenmcguire7342 Your statement is as humorous as it is ludicrous. Congrats, you have changed no one’s mind.

@@stephenmcguire7342 The character of Satan/Lucifer in the Bible is beyond reproach when it comes to comparison with this fictional deity of yours, my friend. I'm assuming you're looking at Satan like Blake or Dante portrayed him in their, also fictional, accounts. Who is the the real monster in your 66 disparate, contradictory books of folk law? Lucifer or Yaweh? No need to answer. It's a rhetorical question.

@@stephenmcguire7342 there is no satan!!

Uhhh so you missed him dodging questions constantly and conceding points to D’souza 😂🤦🏼‍♂️ Maybe you should watch it one more time and try listening closely

@@dorgonreborn4108 Uhhh as opposed to the cheating fraudster and convicted felon, D'Souza. You're clearly a moron lol

ignore that idiot because that's all christians do

one is a nice caring human being and the other a christian

So he has to result to yelling. To me that means you are at conflict. Meanwhile Dinesh remains composed.

......spot on, the man talks nonsence from his first breath, to his last

Dillahunty is hardly of "supreme intellect". This statement is patently absurd. If his "intellect" was enough to assist you with anything, you're not a thinking person to begin with. D'Souza isn't "making it up as he goes along". He dumbed it down as much as he could, and you still failed to follow along? Ermans argument is childish, narcissistic, banality. "Wah, life is hard. A loving God wouldn't do that. I dont get what i want, when i want it, how i want it. He doesn't exist!" Ermans argumentation is a testament to the fact that degrees do not equal intelligence, or wisdom. He's no different than Dillahunty. He refuses to dig into what the stories int he Bible are actually trying to say, and just argues against the surface level, low hanging fruit, and dumb people, who don't think, cheer it on as if it's intelligent in any meaningful way. "No God I can imagine, would make us experience life. My God would create us in heaven, and allow us to only experience perfect peace" - Bart Erman.

@@carllennen3520 “Not a thinking person to begin with“ lmao. You own the monopoly on thinking straight? Give over. What is a ‘god’?

@@GayorgVonTrapp this reply just proved my point. You had time to think about this idiotic response before you hit the send button, and did it anyway. I feel sorry for the people who have to deal with your nonsense on a daily basis. I envy their patience.

@@carllennen3520 Your arrogant and aloof attitude is noted. Your suggestion that I’m not a thinking person betrays your own snooty and condescending demeanour. So cut to the chase clever clogs and lose the insults. What is a ‘god’?

Hobart is not saying God doesn't exist, he says he doesn't understand it that is what being and agnostic is if he did not believe in God he would be an atheist

No he's saying that he doesn't know if God exists. Agnostics are on the fence unable to commit themselves to God. Being on the fence is already committing to not believe. One does not want to die on that fence.

Really? How they're all terrible

I find D’Souza’s rhetoric extremely disingenuous. He’s obviously educated and intelligent enough to realize he’s side-stepping the issue here, because he will call those same tactics out when his debate opponents do it. So he knows better; he’s just banking on other people being too civil to call him out on it.

Yes, Dinesh is really smart, whether you like him personally or not. I liked his debates with Hitchens.

@@2Uahoj well that's just like your opinion man

@@tannermclaughlin2653 huh?

He's a leading conservative intellectual, which tells you a lot about conservatives

God bless your soul

@@ballasog God bless your soul

@@brendaburns1016 May the Lord of Light protect and bring you light. For the night is dark, and full of terrors.

And YOU are a great mind?😂😂😂

The Bible does not count as evidence Arshad!

@@MrDorbel i know but there are passages where we have the original scripture available..

@@justarshad8354 Scriptures, original or otherwise, are just books written by men. They do not constitute evidence, other than evidence of what was in the mind of the writer.

@@MrDorbel i understand what you mean but when historian or bible critics debates they go to the first document that were written the most early century to know if its reliable or not But with the quran there is no need to do that.the only scripture that has the most accurate history and it even has a chain so they can test it.. But with the bible ,critics needs to dig in deeper to see if its in the same standard as it was.. If you listen or search for the best scholars today they will tell you there are many added and interpolations verses.historian then needs to do a catch up and analyse documents to get a genuine understanding which is the most accurate..ehrman is very good at that.he doesnt let beliefs to play with his emotions Thats why he stop believing into blind faith..his truthful and sincere to himself Thats what i like about him.. You will never see other christian critics to provide real proofs.they are double standard scholars..

@@justarshad8354 Scholars and historians are indeed interested to see early documents. It is of interest to see what somebody wrote at the time. However, that writing is not evidence! Without corroboration from other sources, there is no way of knowing whether what is written is truthful or accurate. The document may even contain some parts that are factual, but that doesn't mean that all of it is. Texts are not evidence, whatever religion they are applied to. We should of course apply even more rigorous standards when reading of events that, so far as we are aware, cannot occur in the real world, resurrections, virgin births, miracles, trips to heaven or hell and the like! I appreciate that English is probably not your first language, but this is a point that you need to grasp and understand.