There is No Difference Between Thinking About Yourself and Being Miserable 

I noticed this in myself when I was playing boardgames with friends. I'd always try to be funny but was very nervous deep down. I caught myself once and told myself to shut up and just listen. All of a sudden I felt this big sense of loss and sadness but also relief, the nervousness went away, and all of a sudden I felt really part of the group as my thoughts weren't on myself anymore.

When I was young I wondered what others thought of me. In my 30’s I realized I didn’t care what they thought. In my 40’s I realized NO ONE was thinking about me nor had they EVER. Learn to live with yourself.

After returning from a long walk contemplating meaning, I realised endless introspection and excessive analysis/awareness of ones actions, thoughts and motivations does not reveal a final answer to life or a way to live. You get stuck in indulgence and pontification of ideas and ones flaws in the false belief it is a mental puzzle you can out-think; when really it is a swamp whose surface should be left undisturbed. As if by miracle, this video popped up when I returned from my walk and it spoke my mind, cheers JP.

You can’t train people to stop thinking about something but you can train people to think about something else

During the first covid lockdown I slipped into relatively severe health anxiety. It was an obsession, completely overwhelming me at every waking moment. After some serious lifestyle changes including having a child and renovating a house I'm much better but my point is, I agree. I was thinking about myself and utterly miserable.

I used to have SEVERE social anxiety. I couldn't even bear to be with those close to me in fear they found me boring. Ever since I deleted social medias like TikTok, I have become so much healthier and I have overcome this anxiety.

Fun fact: In the video game “Divinity 2: Ego Draconis”, there is an animated skeleton who will literally collapse under the weight of its own self-reflecting thoughts, if you make it too aware that it shouldn’t be physically able to stand upright since it doesn’t have any muscles or sinews - and that it shouldn’t be able to think either, since it doesn’t have a brain. 😂

1:46 The things about "immature messiahnic desire to save the world" is so accurate. I was young once too, and thankfully I've grown out of it. People with utopian ideas always the one to willing to commit the most horrible atrocities. “Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, so I am changing myself.”

Society definitely pushes people towards seeking help instead of finding it within themselves. One thing that I constantly try to remind myself of is how our food supply, medicine and the chemicals in them and the impact that they really do have. It's actually very sad to see what's happening by design. The surest route to happiness is to not care what others think. But I personally do my best to make sure I remind myself of the ignorance and misinformation that's being pushed on to the masses. People shut down when I try to inform them. I think i over explain.

I love this man's honesty and downright common sense! Thank goodness we have people like this who can wake us all up! His ideas about the importance at the developmental stages make so much sense! Let your kids play play play everybody! So important! Creative and free play is one of the most important things at all childhood stages!

I thank God for people like yourselves who are actively engaged in this battle, the conflict is real and so are the casualties. My prayers (and the MANY who are like minded) are for you and others like you who that are on the front lines, are that you would be strengthened in your resolve and given the support you so deserve. To say our sanity as a society hinges on these truths is not understatement

I had a feeling this would be (in part) about anxiety disorders. In looking for information about Social Anxiety Disorder I found that sufferers have a lot of activity in the Default Mode Network of the brain. It is associated with self referential thought. I have Social Anxiety Disorder; I am the happiest _and_ the most anxious/unhappy at work. Happy when absorbed in the work that I enjoy, but most anxious about interacting and thinking about interaction with colleagues.

Loved this conversation, and this part in particular stuck with me. Because i have to say, I disagree with the notion that focusing more on making other people comfortable helps alleviate social anxiety. I can only speak for myself and based on my own experience.. but i was a person with pretty heavy social anxiety that I've (almost miraculously, in my mind) recovered from. One thing that changed was that i shifted my focus from the other person's perceived emotional state to what my own feelings and experience of the moment were. I stopped abandoning myself in the interest of managing my image. I began to simply feel and be present completely in the moment and worry less how it looked. In being truly present with myself, it increased my ability to be more fully present with other people.. which is the core of what we all want when we're with another person anyway. I for one don't want someone worrying about how to make me feel comfortable (how would they even know what that is for me?) - I simply want them to truly be present with me. A huge part of that is being truly present with themselves. Anything can be taken to an extreme though, and if the point of the exercise with the little boy was anything but "I'm noticing and allowing all of my emotions", then yes I could see that causing more anxiety. Then he would be looking for "bad" emotions to "fix" and that's a short ride to hell in your brain.

Perfectly said! An epidemic of narcissistic people. I also believe the constant, negative, television programming has “finished off” their ability to formulate individual thought.

I've always been very socially anxious. It's only been in the past 5 years or so that I've been able to even talk to people. I literally went to college for 3 years taking the public bus and never even said hi to anyone. Now I go to a game store once a week and play cards regularly. The bit about stop thinking about yourself it really the answer. It's not an easy thing to do, but it does help.

When someone demands you behave in a special way to make them comfortable IT’S ABUSE

I’m currently training to be a teacher, I hope I can make a difference to children and the challenges they face, I know I’ve got a long and turbulent journey ahead.

Basically describes the cycle that every socially anxious person is caught in. Every time you're in a social situation, you can't help but be preoccupied with how others are perceiving you so you're perpetually anxious until you leave their presence. That's also what happens when you scroll through someone's Instagram reel. You compare yourself to all of the highlights of that person's life and that just acts as a reminder of your personal inadequacies.

I'm just glad parents are better educated and correctly informed on the school systems now. I graduated high-school in 2012 and it was before internet was super involved. We had a guest speaker for our class who started crying (literally - which was insane) and telling us we can't have children to save the planet. We also have to remember that kids are also individuals. I was only 17 and completely removed from politics (girls, sports and friends were my concerns) and I knew how insane that person was. The insane "woke" teachers We see on Libs of Tik Tok also come off as insane to the vast majority of kids; however, it's that small percentage of vulnerable kids that fall victim.

Unfortunately this might be me... I always struggled in school. Had older parents, am an only child and always just felt like something was wrong with me. Developmentally I felt it difficult to move forward and still do. I have watched a ton of Jordan's videos and feel like I understand or know that what he's saying is true but I just can't seem to implement any of it into my life and make it work. It is almost as if I'm stuck at a 2 year old developmental level.

It feels difficult to get the balance between thinking about others but still getting what you need so that you van progress or move forward. I found st times in my life that I was thinking too much about others so that I could avoid taking responsibility for myself but it's a hard line to tread

This bloke helps me make sense of the world. Thanks JP

Happiness is found when the self dies/ ego dies. People try so hard to hold a position in society and create an image in society and try to change society and then act suprised about why their mental health keeps suffering.

Pre K teacher here and what he said about toddlers…. 100% correct.

"We don't need no thought control, no dark sarcasm in the classroom - teacher leave those kids alone."

That whole "thinking about what others think of you" is slipping away pretty fast you should savor it

Mind blown. This resonates so true to me.

Thinking about one's self and how we fit into our social environment, is vital to human survival. It is no coincidence that many people obsess over what they say or do, because doing so is instinct. Anyone who tells you not to care what others think is lying or doesnt understand human psychology/evolution. What other people think is crucial to our survival and how our lives will turn out. Think about it.. if people hate you then life will be difficult or worst case scenario it might even be ended, but if people love you then ANYTHING is possible. What's key I believe is finding the right balance between caring about what people think and doing whats necessary for yourself and loved ones.

On the other hand, self-reflection is the beginning of any true spiritual life. I would say it's not so much "thinking about yourself" that is the issue, it's "thinking about what other people think about me" -- very different! Reflecting on one's identity and discussing it with others -- as well as doing the same with them, for them -- is a beautiful and valuable exercise.

Beginning dialogue: JP- "The other thing that seems to happen I would say too is that the social media networks are setup so that casual derogatory derisive narcissistic mocking is not only allowed but staggeringly prevalant." Lady- "And encoraged" JP- "thats it, it attracts attention and is encouraged"

When I was younger I had a bit of social anxiety but then I joined the Army and that got significantly better because as it turns out when you are constantly occupied (and the Army will make sure you are constantly occupied) you think a lot less about what others are thinking about you.

Love One Another God Bless Everyone

I used to joke about this when I was a teenager, that the world would be filled to the brim with narcissists once social media is rolled out completely. Mind you, this was way before RU-vid/Facebook/smartphones and so on. Now 30 years later, it's painfully obvious I was right all along. My friends thought I was weird for thinking like that, oh how the tables have turned.

Can anyone point me to the research and data on this? I would really appreciate it: "there is no difference between thinking about yourself and being miserable. They load on the same statistical axis. ... The clinical data on that is clear. "

The way he described how much anxiety is internalized is something I've noticed myself, and sometimes I struggle to grasp reality. It first took some time to acknowledge that I some degree of it, since I'm pretty stoic and keep things bottled up without really knowing how to let it out. It is easy to view the world in a darker picture where you see everyone as self-serving, and I've kept telling myself I should be as well. But I've come across someone I felt I could treat like a person, and provide some relief on learning to take my mind off my "uninteresting" self and such. But it is still a process.

They're right. One of the surest ways to be unhappy is trying to be happy all the time. I you want a chill life, don't permit yourself to chill too much. I know, I tried

Can't wait to see you in a few hours!

I used to worry what others thought about me until I realized everyone is too busy doing the same thing to even notice.

What if humanity in the beginning was nothing but narcissistic identities and we are in a constant battle of identities where if one person's madness is contagious enough it subsumes other identities as extensions of itself, until everyone in a group is in the same conceptual sphere that it no longer becomes madness and is normal? And now that the common identity has been broken with the dismantlement of of traditional thought, we are back to narcissistic identities fighting for control over the common identity with nothing tying us together until one identity dominates all and the group exists as extensions of that original narcissistic will rather than individuals?

My God this Man is so spot on!!

It’s ironic that as children we’re taught by our parents or in school to care about what others think of us and that’s how our self worth is judged. As children we’re often compared to others as a way to motivate us or shame us into good behavior. Then as adults we’re told that this is bad and leads to unhappiness and we shouldn’t we worry about what others think of us to compare ourselves to others. Quite the mind fuck if you ask me.

"anxious people think obsessively about how others are thinking about them" and this is why things like anxiety, depression, among other things such as autism or just gender non-conformity, show up in insanely high proprotions of those who identify as trans. and im speaking form experience as a detransitioner, that was one of the most anxious and depressed time in my life. i saw again and again, anxious, depressed, some autistic, social outcasts, being pulled in-- again and again! being told theyre actually nonbinary. then it leads to something else. most liked anime. most like porn of the opposite sex in gay relationships- whether thats a straight man liking yuri, or a straight woman liking yaoi. both admired the opposite sex and hated their own.

I knew some of the last people to grow up before mass media. Every generation since has been completely self absorbed and yet lacking self confidence.

We used to empower our young by telling them words weren't important, they could never hurt them. This gave them their own protective shield. Today we have brainwashed them into believing words are their own personal kryptonite. They walk around perpetually afraid and on guard that they will come under attack. Such a senseless and cruel burden we are making them carry. We used to be wiser.

Ground-breaking stuff tbh. Another epic discovery from Dr. Peterson. Narcissism and thinking about yourself often in every case I've seen leads to misery.

Reminds me of something I've heard before, "he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it."

Usually socially anxious people are that way because they've had a lot of negative feedback at some point, sometimes through bullying.

Mindfulness is very important, and gets rid of anxiety, as you are not thinking of anything other than the right now moment. And as you become more spiritually aware, you realize that we are a human collective. And that you cannot help anyone else from a depleted place. Focusing on yourself helps you grow and discover who you are. This is not selfish, but necessary to be able to be grounded in your own energy, to be able to provide support for others.

Agree with what he said. The technique of conversing / thinking from other shoes really helps. Some people are just overly focused on themselves, and that limits their ability to engage with others. In fact, it is more beneficial to know more about others, rather than regurgitating about what you know of yourself.

You look and sound so much healthier. Thank God. Great clip!

excellent conversation. thank you sir

Focusing out and being of service to others! When you're focused on supporting others, you won't have the bandwidth to make up scenarios in your head about yourself.

I changed myself, started thinking about other people and trying to help them, I even volunteer for a few hours almost everyday. I have more obligations, but I still go home with no sense of happiness. I go out and do things, talk with people, try to help them with their problems. So now, I'm alone but with extra steps. Huge improvement, gee golly gosh!

Not only is the title of this video fascinating in its insight but the converse is often so true at a cultural level. I have been to many economically poorer countries than my own (I am from UK) but was often puzzled as to why people in poorer countries often (not always) seems so much happier. I think that thinking about other people which you are forced to do far more in poorer countries (because your family and friends network needs your support and focus a lot more as they are less independent) leads to more genuine connection, less focus on self and more of a feeling of communal belonging. Even if that community is struggling through life at least they are helping each other struggle through life and have each other's backs vs the common western thing were it's normal to not even know the name of your next door neighbour.

This was wonderful. Really gets to the root of it. I hope to see more videos on this specific content.

Nailed it. I literally couldn't have said it better myself.

i think that is the best way out and if i say i don't care, respect it. why should i 'negotiate' my identity? i am happy with the identity I was born with. i was never anxious until i met certain people and then i cannot stop. It has taken years for me to overcome it.

Exactly I wish these kids would realize there's freedom in not being labeled

JP, you're a God send! Shout it loud everywhere and everyone! 🙌💛

4:22 "There is no difference between thinking about yourself and being miserable" ... what about thinking about the good times you've had? Or is this too old-fashioned and not 2020s enough? BTW who is the lady in this podcast?

Very profound thoughts. Thank you Dr Peterson

Well it's important to know how you feel, because this way you can tell whether or not the other person is being uncomfortable. What's bad is to always think/wonder/plan about the way others perceive yourself. This is ego, narcissism, a storyline you identify with. Anyways, mindfulness is important to develop the empathy necessary to understand others, to see own narcissistic behaviour, and develop emotional security by fostering emotional plasticity. This way, hyperviligance relapses, eventually offering a genuine interest in others and in life. I grew up as a narcissist, because my parents were narcissists. Only thing that saved me was mindfulness, and then embracing the fire within.

If you're socially anxious, just remember that most people are comfortable with people who listen and ask questions. The convo will often never even turn much to you, and one question back at them can turn it away again. You're safest in plain sight and most people are hopelessly unaware of how insecure they, let alone you, are. If you find someone that isn't easy to distract and takes an interest, then you may have found a new friend!

I love you Dr Peterson 😀wonderful to get clarity!!! Thank you !!

we seem to be heading into a future with a lot of mental health issues and a lot of confusion, suddenly it will be offensive to even exist.

The great about timber is that it warms you twice

I think the good doctor has introduced us to a new opposition to Identify Politics; the politics of negotiation, compromise and duty; Discord Politics

What a great video! So on point.

Sorry, but I have to say what a superb distinguished suit is Jordan wearing. I must say this is the best suit I have ever seen someone wear, it is soft but solid, welcoming and very well suited. i love it

Re: title and related passages. Amusing. A certain program says "People who spend time writing carefully about themselves become happier, less anxious and depressed and physically healthier. They become more productive, persistent and engaged in life. This is because thinking about where you came from, who you are and where you are going helps you chart a simpler and more rewarding path through life." Wait, that's "self-authoring" by JB Peterson. Not mentioning CBT which seems to have some success.

This was so galaxy brain. I’m shooketh.

I've always said if you break down over a total stranger not validating your gender, you dont believe it yourself enough either.

This is Peterson at his best, within his element.

"I don't believe that one should devote his life to morbid self-attention. I believe that someone should become a person like other people." - Paul Schrader

If these behaviors stem from developmental problems, where is the line between empathy and accountability? More importantly, how do we communicate around it without hostility so we can address the root issues before total societal collapse?

Thank you for being a voice of reason Dr Peterson!

Amazing and clear way to put it! ♥🙏🏼

Damn. The last minute. 🤯

as stupid as it might sound i thought about how to fit in (so myself) all the time till i went to my first real party at the age of 19. With alcohol came a relaxation. i stopped caring and enjoyed the moment, the socialising, not thinking about fitting in. It helped and gave way for a new me. It took a year and a few more partys and to much alcohol to shape my new me but now i rarely think about fitting in and no worries. im not an alk/party addict. maybe once a month with almost no drinks. 😁

@Jordan B Peterson, have you ever encountered the concept of the shock test, moreover have you considered how it applies to social engineering? Thoughts? A video on this would be great.

True.. when u do as the Bible asks and put others above yourself it takes your mind of if yourself.. It’s in the same field as not thinking bad thoughts cuz u will harbor them and it leaves a crack for evil to enter.. Good in. Good out..

I have no sense of self as an individual because I've been conditioned to think of every one but myself. I'm miserable. how should I identify?

2:40 What she's talking about here sounds like certain Buddhist practices, its not inherently bad to do this, to just notice how your feeling. Though usually in the West we instantly attach judgement onto what we observe, for example if I noticed I was feeling distracted and then started to berate myself for not being more focussed. Its the negative judgement that comes after that leads to more suffering. I've personally found it very useful to notice how I feel more deeply and minutely, say in a setting where I'm feeling socially anxious, someone says something, anxiety starts to rise, noticing it I just say oh there's the anxiety, and that's ok. Doing just that stops any more feelings arising off it and spiralling out of control, for me at least. PS: I'm not sure if there's more context to what she's talking about here, I just wanted to give my 2 cents.

ok, I caved and finally watched one of this mans videos. happy I did

The problem is I went to completely focusing on the other person and years later I realized that nobody cared what I had to say, they just liked me because I got them to talk about anything and everything they were interested in.

That was a very interesting perspective from Jordan at the end.

Anxious people I find, feel alive when they worry and complain. It’s mixed with victimisation and self-pity people. The worst people are those who don’t want to be liked but to be admired… those people usually hurt others and have nothing “inspiring” for the world. They’re great for short term relationships, because people are unaware just how narcissistic they are.

Excellent analysis of our culture.

What is wrong with a highly anxious child learning to become conscious about their regular thoughts so that they are able to then change them? If you don't rewire the neural network then how do you improve your outlook. In the same way that an addict can't change until they've acknowledged their addiction consciously an anxious person can't easily change until they've got a grasp of how often and why they're thinking negatively and what the triggers might be. I usually agree with Dr Peterson on most subjects but I don't understand the point in this interview about the check sheet being negative. Of course if it's used by a predominantly happy child then that's just inviting problems but surely it isn't a bad thing in itself?

I feel like I intuitively understand Jordan's illustration of the kid's games with metaphors and understanding how it extends in some people to how they think and behave as they grow older. I have a few thoughts I wish I could share with Jordan to get his view on it. Jordan says that within this 'social agreement' (ie, kids playing house, one being the dad and one being the mom) they are playing roles, and those roles are agreed upon. The issue (if I understand right) according to Jordan with the trans thing is that it's a continuing of that phenomena. IE, one continues to hold on to their ego-centric identity, as though they get to decide their identity alone, and wants everybody else to agree to their own identity because they think it's real rather than a game. I am acknowledging that as humans we are susceptible to being innocently 'drawn in' to our thoughts and the realities they seem to create. Meaning often times we play games in our head and we don't realise they are games. We think they are real. However continuing from that analogy - what I am curious about is whether Jordan would say for example that being gay is a role people play, or is it something deeply psychologically, or rather biologically, hard-wired. There was a time when being gay was seen as a mental illness, that it was something that could be 'decided'. I personally think that's rubbish. I don't think people can simply turn on and off being gay like a light switch if they decide to, but I could understand how and why people came to that conclusion. To me, being gay is not simply a matter of psychological identity (meaning whispy and thought-created). It's not a game one plays and follows a role. It's actually a recognition of a (invisible) biological identity. It's a matter of reality. In my opinion, if a gay person were to act straight, and trying to get everyone to agree that they are straight, in that case they *would* be playing a fantasy game. At the same time, nobody has discovered (AFAIK) a gay gene, and so from a purely objective standpoint the jury is still out there. And this is where I feel that it is the same with trans. Nobody has been able to take a microscope to a gay person's brain and say, "yes you are gay" or "no you're not". Yet I think our culture has progressed in its understanding to a point where we acknowledge that being gay is not just a behavioural thing that people can unlearn. In the same way, I personally have NO idea what it feels like to feel NOT like a man on the inside. It's exactly the same way I cannot really imagine being attracted to men. But listening to trans people speak about their stories, I have come to appreciate more and more that the inner feeling of identity, beyond simply a plastic thought-created conglomeration of whispy nothing that one simply adamantly believes is fact, but an actual biological fact. In a way, there is biological identity and psychological identity. Just like being attracted to the same sex. If someone is born gay or straight, in my eyes, that's a fact. And you can play pretend on top of the fact, but that doesn't change the fact. And before I say this final question, I just want to say that I have a deep appreciation for the realism that our thought-created games seem to take on. It's definitely true that if one repeats something to oneself long enough they start to believe it. That's what I would call psychological identity, and it's plastic. And whatever the plastic of thought makes up, the perceiver will see evidence for it and believe it to be true given enough time. And many fight to have their false reality validated when it's not valid at all. I'm definitely *not* saying that people can invent whatever they say they want to be and that's just what they are because they say so. I'm not saying that people can say "I am a dragon" or "I am Japanese" when they are black. In fact what I'm trying to say is the opposite. Not that subjective identity, or psychological identity, should be treated as fact, but that there may be such a thing as biological identity which is experienced as a deep feeling that is beyond the plasticity of thought. So this is my question for Jordan. Taking this analogy of fantasy games. Is it that trans people are ego-centric and demanding others conform to their game? Or is it that trans people are trying to vocalise that there is such a thing, a reality, as a kind of psycho-biological identity that is invisible to the microscope but real nonetheless (just like being gay). Could it be that those who adamantly write off trans people as "playing a childish game" are themselves the ones playing the childish games, wanting to cling to the rules of the game they invented, and make society conform, rather than be open to deepening their own understanding of reality?

as we all know: it is impossible to put your childs oxegen mask on before you put on yours aka if you camt love yourself first then its impossible to truely care about someone else ( its perfuctory shallow on one side or obsessively consumed with serving the others needs ( all theses dynamics are CODEPENDENCY) but on the other hand if you are xapable of truely loveing yourself first then you are actually independant and self actualized enough to be able to carry on a "INTERDEPENDANT " relationship ( 3 sides independant codependent or interdependant try to break out of the binary mindset black or white etc etc etc focus on the" quadrangle" all dynamics have 4 options ( the 4th is being abandoned / isolated ) independant people arent lonely ;)

Thinking about yourself is a never-ending circle. It's like trying to bite your own teeth, like Alan Watts said. When we think about ourselves, we think about an infinite amount of concepts about ourselves, and then we confuse ourselves with the concepts. This is why there's a fundamental, singular need for the soul. It frees us from the endless conceptualizing about ourselves into a final resting place for the mind, an idea that actually cannot be conceptualized, but is understood to represent us. This is also why I see the need for the idea of God, as a singular resting place for the mind, free from endless conceptualization and association

Waw, mind blowing. This is really helpful for me !

I personally prefer multiple syllable adjectives.....got a lot of them.... Peace!

Facts

Reminds me of the Bodhisattva path in Buddhism which is to become more and more concerned with the welfare of others and as a result your mental afflictions diminish.

Which is more important, what others think of your self or what you think? And if you say " what I think" then I ask , who is thinking about the self? Is there an I who's thinking and a self being thought about? And if so, who is aware of this? For the most part the self you think about is just that, a thought. A mental construct we refer to as ego. The trick is to discover your true self. To illustrate, there was a man called before a magistrate for questioning. The judge said " it says here you are a carpenter and an itinerant Rabi, is that what you are? The man answered "I do the work of a carpenter but that is not what I am. Likewise I teach from time to time but that's not what I am." Then what are you, the judge asked. "I am the truth, the light and the way, that I am" . It's up to each one of us to let go of the ideas we have of who we are until nothing remains but the original and pure "I am.

this man really said self reflection and misery is the same

What helps me with anxiety is thinking about what I think of others rather than what they thing of me

Moms in 2022: "My 3 year old son wanted to be the mommy when playing house with his friend yesterday. I just bought him a dress, wig, and got him a doctor's appointment to start changing his sex. I'm so happy. I always wanted a girl."