There's a Difference Between "Going to Heaven" and Eternal Life | Jonathan Pageau 

Could we please have a bible study? I’m sure many of us would love some sort of a bible study. Getting baptized this Pascha God willing. Getting married this Saturday. Thank God for you and your work. You’ve helped me tremendously.

TO all who worry about what Heaven actually is: God is always and everyhwere and it is He in whom your heart will find peace and fullfillment. And that is Heaven. God can't be disappointing by definition. So just stop worrying and focus on going to Heaven. The particulars do not matter. The only thing that matters is that you get there.

Heaven is to be in the presence of the Holy Trinity and the community of the saints basking in ultimate goodness, love and perfection.This is a spiritual state while our bodies have turned to dust. Eternal life is the life continued as individuals after the resurrection of the dead when Christians get their bodies back but in glorified form just as Christ's resurrected body.

When I am with Jesus Christ , I am in his kingdom, here, on earth, in this life.

The last 1:30 blew my mind. As a Protestant the concept of correspondence is inconceivable. It’s like taking A theory of time and B theory together for a freaking C theory. All things happen now. This is a stunning concept. Beautiful.

This reminds me of the fact that there are three greek words of life in the NT; bios (like oxygen), psuche (where we get the word psyche from, implies having a soul) and zoe (a quality of life). The word zoe is used where scripture says "in Him was life (zoe) and His life (zoe) was the light of man" or that "I have come to give life(zoe) and give it abundantly". Most theologians agreed that this zoe, this quality of life, is the Eternal life that Jesus offers us. Augustine himself even said that to be in eternity is not to be in time without end, that eternity is but ever present! Eternal life is also what God is, in His divine simplicity. Heaven is not a place but a state of being, a state in which one is aware of God who is in all and through all just as much as He is above all. The zoe, the eternal life, that God is and gives through Christ the Logos is ofcourse heaven. It is God sharing His very own eternal and trinitarian life; the internal life of God, the mutual_indwelling life lived by Abba, Yeshua and Pneuma . The perichoretic kenotic zoe. He wishes to give us all things. That we become by grace what He is by nature. He is not merely saving us from sin as much as He is simply saving us to zoe. His life. The life that He simply is. This very life that God is plunged into death itself, thus obliterating death from the inside as light would obliterate darkness. In accepting this sin & death & Satan conquering Life into our hearts, and thus embodying it with help of rituals/habits and sacraments, we ...simply have it ofcourse. It is a quality of life that is so eternal and indestructible that when God comes, all who are "one key and in rhythm" with the Divine (by the power of His Spirit resonating from within as evident in their nature & character) will of course not perish but life forever. But, again, eteranl life is first and foremost a quality of life that not even death can diminish and this but implies that it is Secondarily a life that allows the finite to thus life forever. Immortality is, in a sense, a feature of a life that is in tuned with Divine selflessness itself and a kenotic self emptying way of living. You "go to heaven" because you are already in Heaven; already becoming by grace what He is by nature... loving and compassionate and just, you are participating with the Triune life/zoe. Zoe is welling up from within you and living through you. In the likeness of zoe itself, and Only like gets like. Those who do not have Eternal life do not "go to heaven" because they are not in heaven. To be a Christian because you want to end up in some kind of ethereal retirement location that is geographically situated somewhere is not what the early church believed or taught, it is a typical effect of post-modernity thinking. When God, when Goodness as such and Truth as such and Beauty as such & selflessness & forgiveness & compassion itself, is experienced and lived as its own reward instead of a means to a post-mortem end then we are indeed free. Then we are indeed in Heaven; Eternal life, zoe. Then we join in the Resurrection. Using Jesus (as a set of propositions) to "go to heaven" is simply a selfish and un-kenotic way of being, they aren't in Heaven cause they don't want it. They actually just don't want to burn in a torture chamber after they die. This is not agape cross-like self-giving love, but selfish. They are teleologically off key. We all are, but there is Grace! Having zoe, in willfully embodying and living out a agape-kenotic life of compassion, logically means that you have it forever! Not having it now means that when the Life comes, then that Consuming Fire will rather be experienced as torment and as a Lake of Fire painfully devouring the "chaff" we idolatrously cling unto in our hearts as evident in our carnal nature, and you wont ever have it untill you accept it as Lord & as the only way to really live. @Gospel Simplicity recently made a video on rituals, it was great to watch. It reminded me of Vervaeke's take on rituals and the necessity of them. Jonathan also has a video on them, and about how we are ritualistic beings as evident in the fact that our characters are but a combination of our habits (which are basically almost rituals themselves). Im adding this cause I am deeply beginning to appreciate rituals for what they are, as participating in the things we believe in by using our bodies & our movement to "play" them out. We do this with so many other things in our lives, socially and even in sports. It is why the Orthodox and Catholics have such an emphasis on them. Jonathan said in one of his videos that he became free from many passions not by how hard he fought against them in abstaining from them but rather actually in committing to things like the sacraments and Jesus Prayer.

I like how he articulated his intuition about all particular ends culminating in the eschaton. We must remember that God is eternal, so from his perspective, all of time and the eschaton are eternally present realities. When we die in a state of grace, our souls will enter into full communion with God's eternal life, so, yes, his intuition makes sense.

« Everyday is judgement day »

There is a reason we do not have a full comprehension of this knowledge. The mystery draws us to God.

You become the body that connect heaven and earth, your chance become an angel

It is interesting that prior to Christ's resurrection the faithful dead would've descended to the Bosom of Abraham in Hades whereas post-Resurrection, the saints ascend to the abode of God. But neither of these two states are the same as the final state of Resurrection, aka "Eternal Life" where Heaven and Earth fully integrate and Christ rules Heaven ON Earth.

This is good. Christianity doesn't believe in an "after life." We believe in eternal life through Christ.

An eternal "afterlife" would be a contradiction in terms. Eternity must already be fully present. Also yes, likely transcending time means we all enter eternity at the "same" time.

2:05 Life Springs Unlimited 3:39 The End 4:39 Is Always Hidden In The World

4:20 he almost admits to Soul Sleep but then justifies it by our next waking thought being the waking anyways... Not illogical, but that assumes we are taken out of time itself, instead of existing in some other dilation of time (Revelations suggests there are saints waiting).

2:30 You have access to Eternal Life now. Eternal Life is a fullness of life without limit meaning it’s life beyond time and space. When you die you end. If the Saints are dead and Christ hasn’t returned, then how is it we can pray to them? All ends coincide. The Saints answer their prayers from the Eschaton. The Eschaton is always hidden in the here and now.

So there’s nothing when we die?

man is a symbol, a unity of spirit and body, this unity makes him a living soul. when a man dies, there's symbolic separation: the body dissolves into earth and the spirit goes back to heaven. but since in death there's no symbolic unity, the spirit can't experience heaven because it has no body for this domain (st Paul says there's a body for each domain). JP seems to say Christ is the body needed for a dead man's spirit to experience heaven. though it sort of makes sense (because living christians and satanists can experience the spirit realm with the help of spirits), that doesn't seem to be the thought of the apostles: they constantly refer to the dead in Christ as being asleep, which means no experience of the domain your body is in. so, to have experience again, we need resurrection, to have a body, to have unity again. i've learned a lot from the Pageaus, but this is one of several absolutely-no. actually, my disagreement with most christianity can be reduced to what they think about Israel and about dead people. i'm quite sure if we christians fix this... but i'm also quite sure the diaspora also has its purpose.

Interesting thought. If eternal life is something that is independent of time, it stands to reason that the saints are both dead and no more in an earthly, temporal sense, and yet simultaneously alive in the Kingdom of God.

Basically, the Eternal is the Infinite, by which the finite can have access to. "Going to Heaven", is becoming like an archetype, a basis by which all men can follow or imitate. "Saints in Heaven" creates that kind of picture. But their actions and Being of the imitator should be intended for Christ.

So, are you saying that the saints are already glorified and resurrected in the now-present-future?

Yeah dude but will I still be me and exist after I die? All churches promise this, and if it's not true, then christianity has lied to us for 2thousand years. Will my personality and my self exist in heaven or not? If the answer is no, then we've been duped.

I have a cosmology that I would like Jonathan to consider and hear his thoughts about it. How do I get his attention?

Love you Jonathan. But on this I think I violently disagree only because the narative of eternal life is not this. It underminds the martyrs sacrafice, the imagery and descriptions of revelation and resurection.

Do catholics, orthodox and protestant each have different parts to play as the body of Messiah? Since there are so many denominations. Is this like the body is made of bigger parts which are made up of smaller parts etc.

Very intrigued by the last idea that all of our personal judgements or ends, would coincide with the last judgement. Could it be thought of in the same way that photons, whether they were created in the big bang or generated just a few moments ago, would all 'jump' to the end of time, since by travelling at the speed of light they would experience no passing of time? I'm curious what you think of this idea Johnathan.

I realy don't understand. It contradicts with visualization of this matter form my catholic church

John 6:39-40,44 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”... “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. Does Jesus say he will raise us into heaven? No, eternal life will be given upon resurrection, when he raises us up on the LAST DAY, just as it was given to him by The Father upon his resurrection, so he will do the same for us. 3 times he says 'last day', and yet people still do not hear him.

Either I’m getting stupider or something else

Apocalypse means revelation/lifting of the vail in christianity... Kıyamet means payment/judgement day in islam... İt may imply that this may mean that when all is revealed this will couse a ridiclously great stir on the world, making peril along the way!!!!

Wait, so Jonathan doesn't believe in life after death and the resurrection of the dead?

Were not going up heaven is comming down

Is the 3 Testament being written right now as we speak or who will be the writer of the next Testament? Curious no disrespect 🙏❤️

Surat Shabd Yoga as taught by a True Living Master is the whole thing. Everything else is a deception

I like thinking making love is going to heaven, and eternal life is the child. ("A working class hero is something to be." - John Lennon)

Starting to sound like Jonathan expects oblivion after death.

But Peter says, "you talk about eternal life", and Paul speaks about a hope. Those were simple people, Jesus didn't come to the wise and intellectual. If the hope is just becoming part of the chain of command below god....it is a strange hope, "I will become one of the rulers!!!" Especially for the poor lowly people who came to Jesus. And if the hope is going to heaven and play harp among the clouds, that is no different from the greek and roman religions, they had their afterlife already. All religions do. That is no special great hope that Jesus brought, there is nothing new with it.

Please don’t pray to or “with” the dead saints. God explicitly condemns necromancy (consulting with the dead): “There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.” ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18‬:‭10‬-‭12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Don't O.D. on symbolism.