Damn! Sorry to hear about your experience. The shop I wrench at are big on RH and I've been running RH tires on both my bikes for and haven't had a single flat all year. I ride daily up in Vancouver year-round. I run an extralight RH Barlow pass (700x38) on the rear for my cargo bike, and run standard Babyshoe pass (650x42) tires on my steamroller. These tires have seen daily riding in the city, as well as multi day bikepacking trips on abandoned railway trails and logging roads. I run tubes exclusively. I have seen my coworkers and customers experience blowouts and sidewall tears but they all seem to be happening with tubeless setups. I never had any issues with the tires holding air with tubes, so I'm sticking with it! Perhaps I'm lucky, but we sell a lot of Rene Herse and the majority of customers love them and have no issues.
You can also use some tubeless sealants in tubes. I did that with my old 26er MTB and even rode it for months with a knitting needle thick thorn going thru the tire and into the tube. Held air just fine. Generally though, I feel like a tube with sealant holds air better then the tube would by itself.
ive found that you cant reliably run more than 45 psi on rene herse tires tubeless without constant flats. i was getting glass punctures every couple days when i ran 50 psi. i recently started running around 35 psi on my 650x42 standard casings and havent had a single puncture in over a month. weirdly enough im actually enjoying running less pressure and seeing my strava times get faster.
I had issues with a pair of RH ultralights but not with Endurance casing. But if your going Endurance casing they are pretty similar to other standard casing options such as Panaracer for much cheaper.
I have a pair of RH on my gravel bike. I have to add air before every ride. I'm running them tubeless, and the sidewalls leak like crazy. RH recommends waving the tire around in a special way to coat the sidewalls in sealant. That kind of works. Because they are so supple, they were an enormous pain to mount tubeless. I've patched one tire twice owing to very nasty punctures, and remounting it the second time was a nightmare. All this to say, I like these tires, but I also agree with you.
Your experience matches mine pretty closely. I built a bike a little over a year ago, and picked up a very lightly used set of RH knobbies. They were a pain from the start, not wanting to seat, not wanting to hold air, etc. I ended up getting some weird sidewall tears that I couldn't explain exactly how they occurred. I managed to patch the worst one with some gorilla tape for a while, and it still worked tubeless, but it had a bulge and I just didn't trust it anymore. I've since tried a different brand (apples to oranges, since the new tires have a little bit of sidewall protection) and the experience couldn't have been more different. They snapped into place with just a hand pump, held air for days before adding sealant, etc. And that's why I've blocked Rene's number in my phone. ;)
lol good idea re: the number/website. It's a glory hole. My experience when I switched to Schwalbe's was the same as yours when you switched. First of all it was not a wrestling match getting them onto the rim and then they seated easily with my floor pump and dry tires. I added sealant and I've been riding them daily for about six weeks now without issue. Maybe I check and top off the pressure once a week, but they are usually within 3lbs of where I filled them.
I’ve had great luck with gp5000 tubless . Puncture protection is decent not like a gator skin but it’s a much more comfortable tire and has tons more grip especially when wet . I’ve tried the ultrasport tire and like the wet grip of those, but puncture protection isn’t the best . I’d say if you want performance and decent protection gp5000 all day .
gp5ks are okay, i really don't think they feel very supple/comfortable/fast but the puncture protection is really fantastic. Michelin Power Cups are what I got to replace them, and yeah they are about $20-$30 more but they a far superior in terms of comfort and speed in a 28 compared to my 32 gp5ks. As far as puncture protecti0on goes, they seem to be fine.
I never had sidewall issues, but dang you are so right about how easy they are to puncture. On the other hand, they're also the easier to plug when running tubeless - but I had so many flats and used to many plugs I started getting paranoid while I rode. The best description I had for them was that they're race tires, and just not acceptable for day-to-day riding or anywhere where there's a 1% chance of road glitter.
Overall, I agree with your critique. However, I've had very few flats on my Rene Herse tires. I have the 35c model on my road bike and 44c model on my touring bike. Maybe one flat a year. I run pressure as low as I functionally can, and I think that is why, less pressure pushing the glass into the tire. With a tube, I think they hold air as well as anything. Tubeless on my old Compass labeled 38c tires was a total failure. I'm thinking of trying again in the future but using the Endurance Casing.
I still love RH tires with tubes but don't put in the miles that I think Zach does. I have never gotten a flat on them but don't use high pressures. I hate tubeless. Its a mess and sometimes hard to get the seal. I like the old name Compass better than Rene Herse. They do have a more durable model with thicker casings.
I rode the 42 baby shoe pass extra light, with extra light inter-tubes-since 2019. ONE flat. ( gravel, dirt, fire road, etc. ) usually around 30 lbs of pressure. I assume you put way more pressure in yours. Maybe these tires are the best low pressure tires in existence-and cannot keep high-pressure for too long. I don’t understand your angst in checking/topping off your tire pressure every few rides. I’ve done that for the past 40 years-on all my bikes/tires. I just switched to the Rene Herse 48mm extra light slick. It’s like a beach wheel made with casing from a racing tubular. So much fun. Long live Rene Herse.
This vid came up again in my algorithm--AND I just figured it out in your introduction! "I was not riding that hard" But the intro shows you skidding down an entire hill.😆 Hard to ride a tire harder than that. RH-not made for that. Can't have your cake and eat it too(sorry😕). TPU so light and supple. So easy to use. No mess. No leakage. Great match with RH tires.
I've put a lot of gravel miles on several different Rene Herse/Compass tires, always extra light casing. Tubeless, never a flat. I'm also a 230 lb man. I did blow one off of the bead, but that's because I was running a non tubeless tire, tubeless. Definitely my fault.
I have had many, many Compass and Rene Herse tires and I have come to the conclusion that... yeah, I agree with you. I was going to suggest their endurance casing, but I can't even do that because the endurance casing moves away from the nice, fast supple characteristics of the standard and extra light casing too much. These tires are great, fantastic, beautiful... until they are not those things. Once the tire is compromised, the trajectory is downhill fast. I have switched over/back to Schwalbe tires, specifically the G-One Allround. Great tires that I do not think are that much of a performance compromise at all and they install super easy. And reinstall super easy. Try reinstalling a RH standard or extra light tire tubeless. It's a frustrating experience!
I have been riding panaracer gravel king 28c for the last 4 years. Soft, suppel, and sexy. I usually get a year and a half out of them (i should replace them after a year). Turns out amazon has a two year insurance policy for an additional $6 that covers regular wear and tear. Sure gatorskins last longer but they dont feel as nice. Im looking forward to using that warranty
Well I sadly had the exact same experience Zach is describing but with the panaracer gravelkings (semislicks) in 38mm. I have three barely ridden panaracers hanging in the garage because they wouldn't hold air and when I got them somewhat working one had the tiniest of hole which wouldn't seal up with any of three sealants I tried (Schwalbe, Milkit and Conti) so I put on some Vittoria's without any trouble on setup and never looked back
same here, micropuncture in the sidewall, losing air all the time with a tire that is basically still new. this is the second tire where this happened in the same spot and they are 95 euros in germany. I guess I am going back to schwalbe for gravel.
I know this is a relatively old video but I switched to Rene Herse tires on my main commuter. 700X38C tubeless and in several thousand miles I've had zero issues. I ride roughly 80ish miles per week and run over broken glass several times a day. I'm running the Endurance casing though.
I love my RH Hatcher Pass 48mm Endurance slicks. I ride them tubeless at 25 psi which works perfectly for my 7.2 Kg bike and my 70 Kg weight. I've ridden the bike for a year in races (Dirty 130 (Kms)) and on local 85 Km group rides with zero issues. Highly recommended.
Hi, I run 26x50mm rene herse Ultralights tubeless. I am a Part time Messenger. I Hit curbs Sometimes. I ride stairs I use Stans or orange Seal. 30 psi They are 2 years old by now. Oh and there is a Lot of Glas and thorns where i live. I think you need bigger tyres ;D
They can't really remedy these tires other than doing a version with the endurance casing like they have, but those are pretty much the same as all of the other performance tires that stand up better and last longer. The edge for the standard and extra light RH tires is in their light weight, thin, whatever thread count casing which is what makes them supple and fast and... delicate. When I win the lottery I will go back to them and toss them every 500 miles like people who wear underwear once... lol
I've had zero punctures on my tubeless standard casing 42mm Hurricane ridge nobblies, but I think those are naturally more durable than the slicks. Same deal with losing air though, I'm checking and topping off every 2/3 days of light use.
I've used rene herse tires from 35,38,44,48mm versions in extralight, standard, endurance casings in tubeless and tubes. Best tires i've ever used and continue to use, as well as tons of ultra endurance riders through the roughest courses such as the Silk Road Mountain Race. Your need for stronger casings and/ or wider tires is determined by where you're riding and your riding style. As for tubeless issues particularly with air loss, it's largely determined by your choice of sealant - orange seal or silca would be the best choice.
Reminds me of a love affair I had with some race light maxxis road tires way way back. The rear got shredded by a AAA battery casing. They were so friggin FAST!
Do you have rim tape in your wheels? Is it thick enough? Besides the sidewall hole you experienced, I wonder if your flats when using tubes are due to lack of rim tape and over pressure causing cuts and holes from the spoke holes.
If anything these anecdotes (and testing data from BRR) is good news: Panaracer GK slicks have nearly identical properties to RH endurance and cost half as much. So rejoice and get some panaracers
Panaracer tyres are great (that’s the tyre makers for Rene Herse), but they are a pain to mount tubeless and as u said lose air quickly. I changed to a GP5000S TR, and they are also a pain to mount, but nit because they were too loose, but way to tight. The good thing about conti’s is u don’t need air tanks to seat the tyres, just an floor jump will do. the GP5000S TR us an awesome tyre, rolls well, and u can use wider rims than normal to get that aero profile without the air stream detaching. Shit on gravel or anything remotely loose, but with a bit of care, you can safely under-bike some gnarly stuff.
Barlow Pass for 4 years, 1 flat and that was when using a tube. Snoquamie Pass, 15 months, no flats set up tubeless. Fleecer Ridge, 12 months, no flats set up tubeless.
I have a lot of hard miles on chunky gravel using the tan sidewalls in the Endurance casing. No issues, no tubes. Try the Endurance casing and perhaps try their black sidewalls.
Gp 5000's with tubes are just fantastic. No flats, never held back by them. They just roll and roll forever. Get good mileage out of them and found them on line for more 20 dollars a tire less. You can't go wrong.
Using the bon Jon pass! Loving it at the moment. Was having issues in the beginning. Got a flat on my first test ride due to a mini thorn I ran over. So I set up tubeless, what a bitch to set up! but finally found some tricks to get air in it! But was losing half the psi by the next morning. What finally worked for me was spinning the wheel while laying the bike on its sides. this allowed the sealant to work into the thin sidewalls where there are tiny microscopic holes. That finally solved the slow air leaking issue for me! hope this helps you guys!
Were you riding the extra light variants? I have been running the Compass/RH 650Bx38 Loup Loup Pass standard sidewall tires on my Riv Sam Hillborne for 6 years, running tubes. Had a leaky tube near the valve stem on the rear rim that caused the tire to go soft overnight, replaced the tube, and have been fine for years. No flats, no problems, and my weight fluctuates between 190 and 205 lbs... much heavier than you. I follow the recommended pressure guidelines (50 psi front and back) for my weight. If you are getting flats from debris or hopping your tires, go with the Endurance casing. Run tubes. Note these are riding tires, not skidding or stunt tires, and may not be optimal in this size for a fixie... maybe a 34 or 38mm tire would be better if your frame can handle them.
Agree. I had my first pair of 48mm Hatcher's Pass Endurance version and it blew up while cruising in the street. It wasn't a sidewall that blew up it was actually the thread side and I only had 1000km or even less. Yet, I am getting another Rene Herse because I like it very much :)
Agreed gp5000 tr s solid tire. A little expensive but for me tires are the number one upgrade. I’ve been running tubless with orange seal, so far so good.
I've had 0 complaints on my H+S Panaracer GK Slick 38c tubeless. Seems supple enough compared to tubed. It changed the way I commute on my bike ever since I swapped them over the stock wheelset, totally worth the money. On another topic, what fender do you have on your front wheel? Really need those for my wet commutes here in manila!
Maybe check out the Challenge Strada Bianca in 32 or 35mm. From what I've researched it rides just as fast as Rene Herse tires while being more durable without loosing much in comfort. Cheaper too by like $20 per tire.
These are probably my favorite road tires ever. Currently have 33mm on my road bike and am loving it. FMBs are equally good if you can get your hands on them.
I’ve had a couple of sets of Challenge (Paris Roubaix and Getaway) - they are really fast and have a puncture strip along the center of the tire. They are an absolute nightmare to mount. Wayyyyyyy too tight around the bead.
Hi, Zach! My name is Pavel and I'm a fixed gear rider from Kazakhstan. I need your advice about my next build. I'm a tall guy, 6.7 feet. I'm looking for a reliable cromoly frameset with lugs. I've contacted Wabi about their 60cm Wabi Special frame with chrome lugs, but it's out of stock and they are not sure about new supply this year. So my question is, do you know of any other manufacturer that makes extra large frames? I found a Surly Steamroller, but it's close to my current Kona Paddy Wagon and I want something with more track geometry. Regards, Pavel.
Well think about it this way, lightweight/racing/fast etc. will be less durable, less material, less everything. Pro riders usually have an absurd amount of back up wheels because they are prepared for puncture after puncture
My experience is not the same as yours. I have multiple Rene Herse tires. The smallest are 38mm. Don’t use tubeless. I ride them around 35psi. Put air in them like once a month. Never get punctures. Using them since 2015(?). Best tires ever/ won’t use anything else
I ride the RH Barley Pass extralight for 4 (!) seasons. I also ride many other bikes, and as I afford light wheels I also afford light tires and tubes. My conclusion: 2 flats on 3000 km, small town context, and 3 weeks on several days bike packing or gravel tours with up to 25 kg extra and 30% offroad - both with Tubolito super light thermoplasts. Then I replaced the thermoplasts with common tires and followed the mechanics hint of pouring some milk into the tire - works very well. 2 flats in such a long time, the tread in the rear is a bit off but still holds. Well they cost a gun, but honestly, I don't know any faster more souple tire - race balloons, the fastest at 2.5 to 2.8 bar! I really did not find out, what it could be, maybe the super round wide profile when pumped which of course exposes the sidewalls a bit more...? Cons: Winter grip of these is poor, yes you often pump it up, tubeless did absolutely not work on my 10 yo beloved Hed Ardennes SL +, probably the rim shape, hard to mount when freshly unpacked - really hard. really... 🙂 Verdict: Allroad magician, Recommendation with tube, pump and patches, it's done in 5 minutes I now change on Schwalbe G-One RS once for a test and mount the Barleys to my commuter, see if they're really end-of-life already...
That's a bummer. The most I've abused RH tires is a set of 42mm knobbies on m CX bike that I used for gravel rides, usually seriously underbiked. They've been through fields of goatheads, downhill dirt roads that should need a full sus mtb, plenty of hard rim hits, singletrack fun, and fair bit of pavement. Only flat I had was a goathead when my sealant had dried up. I've also been using 44m slicks on the recumbent with Tubolito for a long time, did great, also swapped to tubeless now. Those are the Extralight, and yeah... sidewalls are fragile and touchy there.
I’ve had several sets of Compass/RH tires in both Ultralight and Standard casings. In general, they’ve been very good for me, but not perfect. I’ve flatted and slashed a couple of them (although the objects I hit would have slashed pretty much anything other than a Gatorskin). My current set of Barlow Passes with Standard casing show some tread wobble, which may be due to casing inconsistency. I’ve never run any of them tubeless, and used to use butyl tubes until switch to latex this year. Even butyl tubes will lose air. Having to top up tires is a cost of doing business in my experience. My bike mechanic friend hates RH tires and is frustrated with me that I continue to run them. 🤣 I am going to look into other tires the next time around though. It’s hard to give up the ride quality of these though. They feel SO good.
I'm not sure if this is a QC/QA issue thing, but I got a surprise nail into my tire the other day and had to emergency take it to a bike shop. It took a long time because every time the mechanic took out a tube or a tire to replace my old tube and tire there was a defect he could easily find and so it took like half an hour. It was crazy. I"m running tubes and I do have to re-inflate nearly every other day even with low mileage.
I am a glutton for punishment. I tried several boutique "they are so awesome you must use them" tires. Almost ruined a set of rims installing the almost impossible to install Challenge Strada Bianca tires, and I had the same fragility issues as you on the RH/Compass tires. I just buy whatever is on sale now.
I'm wondering if you've considered writing Jan about this. Given how much they test and evaluate their tires (e.g. all the tour divide post mortems) it seems like the kind of thing he would be interested in evaluating.
If you can get a hold of Jan. They don't have email or a phone number. The only way to contact anyone is to open a ticket, and then wait. Sometimes it's quick, sometimes slow. Parker has been inconsistent; took over a week to get a response, then no response at all to a follow up question.
I had a similar issue with WTB tires - set up for tubeless, would not hold air. I could spray soapy water all over the tires and you could see tons of bubbles all over the sidewalls. I filled them with sealant multiple times and each time I would check and it was bone dry on the inside. It was just leaking out the sidewalls and disappearing. Changed back to Continental and never had an issue. Also, on my gravel bike I started riding on Pirelli tires and they have been awesome. Haven't tried their road tires yet.
Love Conti GP5000. One thing I noticed is they are run about 2 mm smaller than stated size. I can run 28mm on my Nagasawa when 25mm are usually the largest I can fit.
Oh, thanks! You know, today lots of people have wide rims and publish their metrics of tires on 17c (rarely), 19c (mostly) and even wider rims so I did some guesstimation. On my other bike fork is rather 25c tire friendly so I did read on 5K's and figured on my narrow Kinlins 28c would size like 25c and you confirm this.
I had an aweful time with the normal Continental GP 5000. I am now riding a 2016 Schwalbe Marathon Evolution 37C and 2022 Continental Contact Urban 35C. They both have top notch puncture resistance and all the flats I have seen since then came from the low quality tubes I am/was riding. If you are into numbers you can check out the tests on "bicycle resistance"
Sounds like a great tire choice. Im running a Conti contact in the front and a Conti contact plus in the rear and they're like riding on clouds compared to gatorskins. The puncture protection is like 10× better too and tbh they roll just as fast as slicks like Conti grandsport race
@@vintagesteel exactly. As a normal rider/commuter I would take these few extra watts and grams any day if they save me hours of fixing flats every month or two.
I had the same experience with my gravelking semi slicks. A puncture once a week. Only with the rear tire. I put the tire on another bike but as a front tire and zero problems. Genuinely don’t know why it’s like this.
"....ube purple...." Gee thanks Zach, now I want some Magnolia Ube ice cream...lol Oh, and I've been pretty loyal to Gatorskins, especially on my fixed gears... and been pretty happy with the wtb thickslicks on my trek roadie. All of them are 700x25 tubed. Trying out my friend's older set of Continental Ultrasports on my Origin8 track bike...so far love those too. What would be a newer Continental equivalent of those?
It’s all about Continental Gatorskin had them on a Roadie and Fixed never had an issue I’m just bad at screwing those darn pista. But now got myself very cheap zip wheel-set and they are tubular, I finally found the gatorskin I’m not sure how those will perform. I don’t even know cement or tape.😢
Latex tubes with removable valve cores you can put sealant in? Tubes, fast and sealant aren't mutually exclusive. I run latex tubes in some of my bikes and they are insanely fast rolling with supple tires. I haven't even had to put sealant in them, yet, so I can't say how well that works. The latex tubes do need to be pumped up every single ride/day. No big deal with a good floor pump by the door. I even weigh about 198lbs right now.
Hello from france, thanks for your video ,always a pleasure to watch, i ride 25mm gp5000 tube on my fixed gear and pirelli pzero tlr 26mm on my roadbike, the both are awesome ,
Hm. RHs are finicky, but it seems like that’s just the price of performance equipment in my experience. couldn’t get my 700x44 extra lights to stay sealed for a couple weeks. I got fed up and switched sealant from muc-off back to orange endurance. No probs since. Now I’m a RH believer 🤷♂️. Just my experience tho 😅
RH, and std Panaracer (who make RH tires) GK's are reknowned for this. Move ip to the + plus models and you lose a tad suppleness but have the benefit of no more reliability issues. Or punctures. And you save money over RH products.... Edit, and i'm so old school i still prefer tubes....
I get very few flats on my Rene Herse tires, I'm switching to them on most of my bikes. I use that orange crap for tubeless. I wonder if you are over inflating them. I can't imagine the Bay Area is better for getting flats than San Diego. But some people just belong on Schwalbe Marathon Duremes.
No experience with them personally. I do run a Pasela(?) on front in winter. Road tubeless is a very finicky beast. Supple high pressure tires cut easy, sealant generally won’t seal. I only rely on Stan’s Race sealant(no affiliation) off road. Thick and heavy but it works. I run latex tubes on road still. More reliable for me in my situation. In a rough urban situation your gonna need a tough tire. Take notes from the tires that podium in tough gravel races. Like Specialized Pathfinder, etc. It’s a balancing game… How Supple? How durable? I’ve run 300tpi tires and they were absolutely the BEST… for half a day😄.
Any opinions on the Continental Grand Prix 4-Season. I have the continental gatorskins on my bike right now but i am thinking about switching them to the grand prix 4 - season. Any advice please
nevermind. just watched the end of the video. conti rocks. personally I abandoned the gp5k s tr for the tubed ones because tubeless just became too much of a hassle
i have been abusing compass 38c in the city with the most potholes in the developed world and i havent had a single flat, slowleak or pop. like ever. i dont have the extralites tho. Also remember to check your rim tape. & i do admit that i have to repump them slightly more often than other tires, but i like that cause i can settle into my perfect tire pressure as I ride ;)
You don't seem to use the panaracer smart sealant thar they developed. Those thin side walls are so thin that normal sealant is often to liquid to seal them. I have been ride Oracle Ridge tires for months now one my gravel and they hold great, even on rocky single tracks
Kenda Kwick Drumlin tires don’t look fast, but they are, even the 50cc on my gravel bike. I’ve only had one puncture from a sharp ass nail nothing would have stopped. I bought 35mm for my fixie, but I’ve been using some 32mm 4-weather contis without a flat for a while now, so I’m going to wait to replace them. Best thing is that they are fast, and you can go off road.
Michelin's midrange performance model (that they keep renaming... used to be Endurance, then Road, now I think it's "Cup"?) for my 700c, Panaracer Pasellas for my 27"(630), and if I ever get around to rebuilding the 26" bike I have in pieces, I'll probably put Schwalbe Big Apples on that.
this might be unrelated to the video but, what do you think of having breaks on a fixed gear bike? I love the idea of a fixed gear bike, but the idea of generally having no breaks on them is the only reason i havent gotten one yet (I love going down hill and just wouldnt feel comfortable without any breaks)
Stans is just not a good sealant anymore. It looses out to most newer stuff. They must have changed the composition or somthing. Most use them only because thats what they always used. I change to Mucoff (price/performance sweetspot) and am a lot happier. No amoniak in the stuff either so the smell is much better...and its pink so dont use when hungry for strawberry milkshakes
I had the same issue with race-light latex innertubes. Didn’t hold air and punctured when even looking at a pothole. I’ll stick with continental Grand Prix. Light tyres and super grippy. I tried them on my track bike for the last 6 months and will be upgrading my daily fixed gear once my gator skins have worn through.
Latex tubes don't air, that's their nature. Need to be topped up every ride. As they are very elastic people claim they are better at resisting punctures as latex deforms around foreign object while harder butyl punctures sooner. Of course, nail or like going right into will puncture anything but rim.
Love/Hate my high TPI panaracer gravelking slicks with light TPU tubes. Fast rolling, and puncture prone. Should set them up tubeless 💁 A pair of 50mm RH knobbies always weeped sealant from the side walls.
I have to add air less than I ever have in my whole life, riding Panaracer Gravelking tubeless, with Muc-off. I just had to add air to one of my tires, for the first time in months, the first time since I set them up, in fact.
Your might try the cheaper gran bois tyres. I got many urban miles from the 28 mm version. Also try the Rivendell Jack brown - very good tyre and better than any conti. Come in different types and sizes. My favourites. Cheers. Enjoy your videos.
I have had good experience so far with the RH fleecer ridge standard casing, but they do require a lot of sealant top offs. I also have ultra dynamico cavas that are puncture notorious and require a lot of sealant top offs too
...and I thought sew-ups were a pain in the ass.. Yeah. @continental tires have soooo little bead stretch. However, my experience, living in Connecticut is that they last. Maybe the compounds are a bit firm in some situations, but they're consistent at holding pressures. Thanks for reading.
Zach you should try UltraDynamico tires, they’re supposed to be super plush and supple like renehearse, but they’re made by panaracer and they come in different casings for durability
