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These benchmarks look terrible for React... 

Theo - t3․gg
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30 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 161   
@fyfaenihelvete
@fyfaenihelvete День назад
we need a benchmark for benchmarks
@TheAlexLichter
@TheAlexLichter 22 часа назад
Vue on #1 in terms of SSR speed 🙌
@naughtiousmaximus7853
@naughtiousmaximus7853 20 часов назад
Where can I check this out?
@brambekkers
@brambekkers 17 часов назад
Vue ftw
@sburton84
@sburton84 День назад
I think the take-home lesson from this is that LLMs produce bad code and, while you might get something that works well enough if that's all you need, if you're actually writing a benchmark that's supposed to measure optimal performance, getting an LLM to generate the code is pretty stupid...
@gohancomfejao
@gohancomfejao 18 часов назад
mentioning vue is like saying voldemort in front of everyone for him
@tobychidi
@tobychidi День назад
Thing is, Vue keep getting better.
@justafreak15able
@justafreak15able День назад
Vue js always has been the best choice but people overlook it.
@antidotes1999
@antidotes1999 День назад
react is ok, the problem is next
@nero1375
@nero1375 День назад
just wait for Vue vapor kek
@TheMACtutoalex
@TheMACtutoalex День назад
VueJS Options is peak framework. No debate on that one.
@rasibn
@rasibn День назад
Vue is great but I feel Sveltekit is better than Nuxt...
@sahilaggarwal2004
@sahilaggarwal2004 День назад
4:27 "They were running it in dev mode" Had me laughing too hard🤣🤣
@armanrozika
@armanrozika День назад
yeah lol, massive different between dev and prod
@NathanStrutz
@NathanStrutz 22 часа назад
What I learned from this is Vue is the goat 😅
@xingxingforyou
@xingxingforyou День назад
At this point, I ultimately realize and accept that Theo really overlook and ignore Vue, no matter how good Vue is. *sigh*
@bideshbanerjee5506
@bideshbanerjee5506 20 часов назад
11:25
@xingxingforyou
@xingxingforyou 17 часов назад
@bideshbanerjee5506 dude dun worry, I watch the whole vid before dropping comment.
@jonatthu
@jonatthu 12 часов назад
@@xingxingforyou Then what's your real request, a vuejs dedicated video? That's fair but tbh he would do it already if vuejs drags enough traffic
@xingxingforyou
@xingxingforyou 12 часов назад
@ nah! I didn’t request anything. All I do just want to express my thought on it. I don’t give a damm thing if he likes vue or not, just don’t like the way he tryna ignore Vue in the game even he knows Vue also was also falsely benchmarked initially but never talk, and that’s it. And it’s not just me, let’s look at other comments. Thanks
@gro967
@gro967 22 часа назад
Vue the winner, as usual 😅
@serhiicho
@serhiicho День назад
Evan You, always makes sure to make Vue better with new versions 👏👏👏
@Hackkit
@Hackkit День назад
I like the way theo tries to ignore Vue 🤣🤣. We know Vue is better and there's nothing much to talk about. What a tragedy.
@kabukitheater9046
@kabukitheater9046 День назад
he's not reacting to vue lol
@natedunn3933
@natedunn3933 22 часа назад
he has never really written vue. and... that's ok for anyone. don't need silly flame wars.
@jatinkumar7287
@jatinkumar7287 22 часа назад
​@@natedunn3933 he's literally in this video talking about different frameworks. Doesn't the whole premise of video is about this benchmark.
@natedunn3933
@natedunn3933 21 час назад
@@jatinkumar7287 read the room and the title. 😄 he's a react developer and has dabbled in a few other things. Vue not being on of those things isn't a travesty. i get wanting Vue to get more of a shine, but you're looking in the wrong places.
@nghiase738
@nghiase738 21 час назад
Why Vue when it just just copied from Angular/React? not innovative like Svelte & also it's such a great joy to code in Svelte.
@wt4csm
@wt4csm 22 часа назад
You thinbk Theo dogs on Vue? He basically pretends Angular doesn't even exist despite it having almost the same marketshare.
@birb7981
@birb7981 День назад
Vue disregarded.. yet again.
@MrYUPIYU
@MrYUPIYU День назад
Someone else feeling like he is ignoring vue? lol
@naughtiousmaximus7853
@naughtiousmaximus7853 День назад
I think his ego just cant admit Vue is good. Like legit a good tech that you can use to build virtually anything while not having to speak vercelish.
@bideshbanerjee5506
@bideshbanerjee5506 20 часов назад
11:25
@BurgerBurglar8964
@BurgerBurglar8964 20 часов назад
It's literally mentioned in the video that Vue is fast
@enzo.albornoz
@enzo.albornoz 16 часов назад
​@@BurgerBurglar8964Theo defends React with all excuses possible "oh, but look, it's'just' half of the performance" meanwhile the only comment he does about Vue is "Vue looks good". I don't dislike him for that, but I found this funny. Maybe he's too deep in the rabbit hole.
@Dylan_thebrand_slayer_Mulveiny
@Dylan_thebrand_slayer_Mulveiny 14 часов назад
Any framework that cooks its benchmarks like this is an immediate, giant, blaring red siren for me. Sketchy as fuck. You can't blame AI for that either. Any dev worth their salt reviewing those benchmarks is going to know the difference instantly. It's intentional.
@bartek.igielski
@bartek.igielski День назад
why tf you are always ignoring anything related to Vue? vue creator was tweeting about it nuxt core team was involved there was a PR in the benchmark repo what else needs to happen to simply cover it the same way as you cover others?
@GawblyOG
@GawblyOG День назад
He's paid by vercel to ignore vue. This guy's a self centered shill who has beef with everything including libraries and even inanimate objects.
@naughtiousmaximus7853
@naughtiousmaximus7853 23 часа назад
Solid is similar to React and Svelte is tied to Vercel. He will never cover Vue and Angular, just because of that.
@javierflores09
@javierflores09 21 час назад
@@naughtiousmaximus7853 I mean, we just sadly got to accept that Theo isn't some kind of tech reporter with some oath to treat each and every technology equal. If they don't have any interest in Vue, then why would they talk about it? Besides, Vue is great, don't get me wrong, but it isn't going to get any clicks since it isn't trendy anymore so the value here is little. What I can see here is just the fact that he has been more personally involved with the people behind these frameworks and that's why he likes to cover them, which is probably not the same for Vue. Nothing to do with Vercel or whatever
@bartek.igielski
@bartek.igielski 21 час назад
​@@javierflores09 It's not about making content about it. It's about not deliberately ignoring it, if it's somehow related to the things Theo wants to make content about, like in this case, he entirely ignored that the initial score was wrong for Vue too.
@javierflores09
@javierflores09 19 часов назад
@@bartek.igielski "deliberately ignore" is a rather harsh assumption to make. It could just be that he didn't see the initial rebuttal tweet from the Vue people like he had seen the others, that isn't ignoring but just not being aware of it. Sure, you could argue that Theo could've gone "if React and Solid guys said this then Vue's one must have been flawed too" and go on a crusade to find the flaws on the Vue benchmark, however as I said earlier, it isn't like he is a tech reporter so he has no obligation to do that, and I certainly wouldn't if I took no interest in the framework. Vue has rebutted their place in the benchmark as it should have and now the misconception is gone for the people who have seen the corrected benchmark. I am aware it can be frustrating that an influencer you follow doesn't do coverage of the framework but truth to be told, it isn't necessary anyway, with the amount of people that have pointed their fingers towards that benchmark, it wouldn't cause a dent to Vue's reputation in any sort of way as people are already dubious of all the results
@OldKing11100
@OldKing11100 19 часов назад
This is such a goofball thing to measure. I love it. I think what I really learned is that LLMs can and will lead you down the wrong path and that it's really easy to deliver poorly optimized code in Node.
@cIappo896
@cIappo896 День назад
Okay, I get the point of testing performance on a base level, but when's the last time you made a web app without client side reactivity?
@YoungReeezyy
@YoungReeezyy 17 часов назад
Love how Angular isn't even taken into consideration.
@rafikkasmi1406
@rafikkasmi1406 День назад
anyone else thinks that Theo really hates Vue that much ?
@UliTroyo
@UliTroyo 20 часов назад
Apparently the entire comments section, yeah
@SagasofSuccess-tk5uq
@SagasofSuccess-tk5uq День назад
The react base component is generating a list of react nodes without adding a key to each element forcing an entire tree swap for the component in each re-render no?
@SagasofSuccess-tk5uq
@SagasofSuccess-tk5uq День назад
But thinking about it if what we are measuring here it's ssr page serving time then this detail shouldn't matter now that i think about it
@losing_interest_in_everything
@losing_interest_in_everything День назад
*Productivity benchmark when ?*
@akinaguda
@akinaguda День назад
All these benchmarks but users and developers almost never see the difference
@phpn99
@phpn99 День назад
What's really quick, is the speed at which a dev gets himself egg on the face by posting a half-assed test. You guys are really tolerant ; it's nice to see, because the damage could've been real. I'm sure Matteo learned his lesson ; benchmarking is more subtle than it seems.
@mr.mirror1213
@mr.mirror1213 День назад
subtle?? Nah he used dev mode bro🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Valiant600
@Valiant600 21 час назад
My benchmark is putting food on the table...
@digitaldevigner4080
@digitaldevigner4080 21 час назад
To be fair I feel like we overuse JavaScript today to essentially spit out pretty basic html. There are of course situations where it makes sense but most of the time we should not be generating static html. It should just be served as is already. I'm not sure when writing basic html and css became such a naughty dirty thing.
@nwsome
@nwsome День назад
React being slower mostly comes down to creating a styles object for each div
@ekrem_qb
@ekrem_qb 22 часа назад
Once again *react-library* showed how awful it does the work. You all look miserable defending it, just accept the reality, guys.
@ersstuff
@ersstuff День назад
Would be funny if some Ruby on Rails dev contacted you that you are benchmarking wrong.
@silent21shredz
@silent21shredz 22 часа назад
Anyone else still suspicious of the results even after they were "fixed"? If all the first examples were AI generated and the person benchmarking them isn't actually equipped to write basic examples within the various frameworks why should we trust their framework is actually fastest, there can be plenty of other minor things destroying the performance of the others. Not just the most obvious dev mode vs prod mode, furthermore in the fixed svelte 5 example it was faster, but in the final benchmark fastify is once again fastest so what changes were made to the fixed svelte 5 example to make it slower or what improvements did they make to fastify to get the additional performance gains and if so why weren't those gains in the original example coming from the framework author themselves? This doesn't seem trustable at all, and extremely cherrypicked to make their framework seem better than the others when in reality it doesn't really seem to deliver in that regard.
@matress-4-2323
@matress-4-2323 8 часов назад
that's benchmarking in a nutshell. i enjoy benchmarking but it should always be taken with a grain of salt. when there is a significant difference in performance, it will usually mean something, but this benchmark is not exhaustive enough and is too minimal.
@sarangdad
@sarangdad 5 часов назад
Why does everyone say Theo ignores Vue? I guess they are just babbling without watching the entire video clip. Shame on them. 11:26 He said "Vue aws surprisingly fast..." 14:54 "But it's also crazy that Vue with similar capabilities is able to be so close to Fastify".
@dvidsilva
@dvidsilva День назад
3:15 Now I'm afraid of copying arrays
@rubendacostaesilva8442
@rubendacostaesilva8442 День назад
I'm reviewing my latest project code right now, because I know I chose to copy arrays instead of using push somewhere.
@Cuca-hn3md
@Cuca-hn3md 20 часов назад
On garbage-collected languages, there are two major performance issues with arrays: 1. Every time you create a new array, it allocates on the heap, which is costly. 2. Every time ur array is elegible to be collected, it freezes your process, throttling it. Solution: Use array pools to reuse arrays, keeping them from being garbage collected and avoiding new heap allocations.
@diadetediotedio6918
@diadetediotedio6918 День назад
Why he did not used the Solid without hydration thing, was not it like 2x the speed and had the same equivalence with his templating thing?
@pempheromkuka7874
@pempheromkuka7874 День назад
does theo have something against vue or its just me noticing vue was being ignored and its ignored in most videos when talking about js frameworks
@SilasDuarte-e9k
@SilasDuarte-e9k 23 часа назад
The same happens with Deno, the creators of Deno are obsessed with performance but seeing that even with their version 2.0 Bun continues to surpass them they prefer not to include it in their comparisons on their website. "Let's pretend that they don't exist"
@matress-4-2323
@matress-4-2323 9 часов назад
@SilasDuarte-e9k that's how all benchmarks are because it's good for marketing. there is a faster runtime than bun called just-js. web frameworks do the same thing. they show comparisons across different languages and intentionally leave out faster languages or faster frameworks in other languages.
@gsgregory2022
@gsgregory2022 12 часов назад
I think the way they handled being wrong is great. One thing though is that what the produced at first showcases the potential for letting AI write code.
@chepossofare
@chepossofare Час назад
What surprises me is that with fastify we can handle ONLY less than 1k conn per sec for plain html. That's awful.
@Александр-ч4п5ъ
@Александр-ч4п5ъ День назад
This is what happens when you mess with Svelte
@Sahil.1
@Sahil.1 День назад
I think react has reached the threshold
@riccardoguitar
@riccardoguitar 22 часа назад
WTF --- "We chose not to consider tools like Next.js, Astro..." - Are you saying that Astro SSR is not a real true SSR???
@GilbertoAlbino
@GilbertoAlbino День назад
That's why I NEVER follow benchmarks and do them myself.
@しめい-l4m
@しめい-l4m День назад
"React in SSR" already looks weird.
@notanoption1793
@notanoption1793 21 час назад
Yheo WE WANT VUEEE
@belphegorPrime
@belphegorPrime День назад
It's Theo and the Avengers of frontend frameworks
@winns.x
@winns.x 7 часов назад
People are so attached to their old tools
@v02dv
@v02dv 18 часов назад
VUE MENTIONED LETS GOOOOOO VUE
@0xdiane
@0xdiane 22 часа назад
Having a line on the first chart hurt me
@TheLoGgIDK
@TheLoGgIDK 23 часа назад
What happend to Qwik, why do no body talk about it? Is it too similar to Solid and Solid won the popularity contest?
@naresh_deeti
@naresh_deeti День назад
0:45 JS frameworks ?, Why Angular is not included, it's not just in this benchmark, do frontend devs hate Angular 🤔
@hasnatjamil1101
@hasnatjamil1101 День назад
Well of course. You're not a true FE engineer if you don't hate the guts of Angular. It's just common knowledge.
@naresh_deeti
@naresh_deeti День назад
@@hasnatjamil1101 No idea, I'm not a Frontend dev
@edwardallenthree
@edwardallenthree 15 часов назад
Everyone defending their favorite framework is if it's a sports team is hilarious.
@dasten123
@dasten123 15 часов назад
Vue is so damn underrated! I would _never_ pick React voluntarily and yet everybody keeps using it for some strange reason
@thegrumpydeveloper
@thegrumpydeveloper День назад
There’s lies, damned lies, and benchmarks.
@vitosnatios
@vitosnatios День назад
bro on dev mode 💀
@furycorp
@furycorp 14 часов назад
Realistically when was the last time the framework performance actually remotely had an impact on your app? This never comes up in business apps in 99%+ of cases and the only time I've ever encountered it is screwing around for fun, messing around with 3D + webGL, etc. Unless a framework is perceptibly slow to users it doesn't really matter and it won't cost you any users or customers, but it will cost you money if you get sucked into premature optimization.
@dotnetapp
@dotnetapp День назад
i will look to create an angular sample this afternoon
@isuperman1113n
@isuperman1113n 23 часа назад
Wish they had Qwik too
@indeecjo
@indeecjo День назад
It's not that SSR performance doesn't matter. But you can scale always scale when your problem is server side. When your problem is client side your only solution is to optimize the code. We better see some real life examples thast would include all loading time to compare better.
@jackevansevo
@jackevansevo 23 часа назад
It's the same story every single time and it's tiring. Each time a benchmark is posted it's almost always just disingenuous advertisement for a product/framework. You almost immediately have people in the replies pointing out flaws. I see this with runtimes (Deno vs Node vs Bun), I see this with frameworks, I see this with libraries. Literally none of this matters because it's possible to write crappy/slow software in any framework.
@AI_FOR_555
@AI_FOR_555 9 часов назад
First thumbnail was good n can generate high CTR
@paulmtali723
@paulmtali723 День назад
14:50 React is a library... 😂😂😂
@IAmOxidised7525
@IAmOxidised7525 19 часов назад
At this point benchmarks are only a marketing tool now , jokers running around with benchmarks 😂
@AlemMemić
@AlemMemić 23 часа назад
Angular?
@watchme222
@watchme222 День назад
how about angular?
@MarkJKellett
@MarkJKellett 17 часов назад
again, you could definitely get a quicker response from react if you used a stream? waiting for the entire request to finish would surely negate the rum stats associated with this being bad?
@_y7ya
@_y7ya День назад
Theo what's your criteria for taking channel sponsors? Just wondering as I'm not really able to differentiate between if you're sponsoring for the sake of sponsoring or if also because it's a product you think would be valuable to you or your demographic.
@billy818
@billy818 День назад
money?
@_y7ya
@_y7ya День назад
@@billy818 Well I'd like to assume he has some motive for not selling trust for money.
@AndrewVelez
@AndrewVelez 22 часа назад
Nextjs does provide a render method.
@k3nsei
@k3nsei День назад
Those kind of benchmarks are trash. Build real world apps then compare.
@mjerez6029
@mjerez6029 15 часов назад
Is this not like an old month old?
@kheldinacherchour1576
@kheldinacherchour1576 День назад
You're X link is wrong !! Nice video btw
@rasibn
@rasibn День назад
Wtf svelte = react confirmed???
@Alysonhower
@Alysonhower День назад
Svelte => React wrapper
@succatash
@succatash День назад
Nah react rocks, complex apps and ssr is odd.
@thunfisch987
@thunfisch987 День назад
Is this a reupload? I feel like i've seen it already
@irvinmuziwenkosi
@irvinmuziwenkosi День назад
Maybe it was live
@thoughtsuponatime847
@thoughtsuponatime847 День назад
He says veet
@NathanStrutz
@NathanStrutz 22 часа назад
This is the way.
@saiphaneeshk.h.5482
@saiphaneeshk.h.5482 23 часа назад
Where does WordPress sit here?
@NathanStrutz
@NathanStrutz 22 часа назад
Too high level. PHP could be benchmarked like this.
@stenh-vf9ib
@stenh-vf9ib 17 часов назад
Atleast give the tweet you made the video about...
@RaaynML
@RaaynML День назад
Those relying on AI to code are only working to further reduce the quality of future AI-generated code
@gro967
@gro967 22 часа назад
It’s just the standard now.
@mikeeomega
@mikeeomega 19 часов назад
This is an old topic, isn't it?
@MusTheFan
@MusTheFan 19 часов назад
Web dev sucks, all these results suck
@n2-yt
@n2-yt 8 часов назад
Vue is the best!
@rusting_in_peace
@rusting_in_peace 19 часов назад
📊✅
@IAmOxidised7525
@IAmOxidised7525 19 часов назад
Svelte yay
@universe_decoded797
@universe_decoded797 День назад
Imagine having tunnel vision on ms. Hypnotizing all his viewers for ms upgrades. Make some real videos dude
@RobbPage
@RobbPage День назад
thing is, NO ONE cares.
@tungthanh4297
@tungthanh4297 День назад
where's angular sir?
@tjblackman08
@tjblackman08 День назад
Matteo fixed his tests and reposted a thoughtful article about everything. If you're shading him for this, you know nothing. He's not a famous framework author like RH, RC, DA, but in the wider NodeJS world, he's absolutely legendary. It's honestly unreal how much code he touches. Anyway, interesting video, glad Svelte had some redemption!
@t3dotgg
@t3dotgg День назад
Matteo is a friend and I’m very happy with how he handled things, as I clearly state in the video you just commented on without watching
@iceinvein
@iceinvein День назад
I have no idea what video he watched
@Abdul-MelikPasanovic
@Abdul-MelikPasanovic День назад
First
@lenvaz8957
@lenvaz8957 День назад
Is this a trend!? 😅
@salimpalim
@salimpalim День назад
@@lenvaz8957 It’s been for the last 10 years bro
@nehalpradhan2229
@nehalpradhan2229 День назад
🍪🍪🍪
@nehalpradhan2229
@nehalpradhan2229 День назад
@lenvaz8957
@lenvaz8957 День назад
@@salimpalim late to the party 🥳
@oserodal2702
@oserodal2702 День назад
Hey Theo, what do you think about VDom libraries like snabbdom?
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