These Ixalan Cards Top 8ed This Weekend | MTGGoldfish Podcast  

Getting rid of core sets (m20 and such) I think was a bad idea. Those sets were so clear in design and even in name

the eeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaasiest way to sell your Magic cards

The year is 2027 and Seth is wrapping up his latest video… “…so I hope you all enjoyed this episode of Standard gameplay. I think the main thing we learned today is that the Skeletor/CSI Miami combo deck really only works if you can reliably cast Scarlet Spider on turn 1, equip it with Red Lantern Ring on turn 2, then tap Avengers Tower on turn 3 to tutor for Steven Universe. Even then, the deck is still weak to Care Bear Stare. Tune in next time, when we’ll try out M&M Tron, the new Modern deck that uses Chester Cheetah and the Tron lands to ramp into all five of the M&Ms!” Seth turns off his camera, sighs, and a single tear rolls down his cheek. Meanwhile Crim, having died of excitement after 2026’s all-anime-waifu Standard, looks down from heaven and smiles.

The best way for people to learn how to play Magic isn't Standard or Commander or drafting. It's Jumpstart. Shuffle these two packs full of mostly simple cards together and go to town. You can play it 1v1 or multi-player. It's 20 life so it's not a slog like commander, and there is no meta. You lose, just grab two more packs. And it’s super easy to just keep the packs together for replayability.

Richard, you guys should literally find someone from your LGS that is new to the game, and has no online presence, and do a podcast with them where you ask them all these 'new player' questions. It would probably be hard to find someone keen, but their answers would be incredibly insightful 🍻

i think the full set jumpstart packs are a great way to get intro'd to MTG.

Schooner. The "ch" is pronounced like a "k". Type of ship for sailing. The fact that Seth got it right after past videos with one of his trademark mispronunciations made me so happy.

Uuuf, a full episode about predicting what will happen in 4 years might be super cool!

Thank you Seth, for not talking over the others and interrupting. You're a good host.

10:41 I stayed away from magic for years. I tried playing in 1998, i was 12 and had no money lol. I thought it would be way to hard to be competitive because I knew I needed four of every great card (or I thought) then several years (March 2023) later my buddy introduced me to this “new” format called commander and I have been hooked. I just have to buy 1 card. Commander is so easy to get into for new players, especially when the precons are getting better and more competitive out of the box. Sorry for the long comment. Love the channel.

I really want pauper-standard or maybe artisan-standard to be a thing now that rotation has extended since we'll have the largest card pool for standard this would make it way more viable. Selfishly I just don't like all the powercreep and want to play a simpler game but also it just seems like a really good way to introduce new players as long as the commander reprints and whatnot never take up common slots that way there's even more indication on what cards are legal, it's way cheaper to get into, and the cards are way easier to read. I think that a low-power format would be very refreshing for a lot of players who are just exhausted by all the text of new cards.

Crim mentioning Knuckle Puck, always knew he had good taste!

Kinda funny hearing Seth talk down about map tokens considering unlike those, Blood tokens were like universally declared a bad/worst token ever and yet there goes blood harvester being this allstar of standard.

I had some luck teaching someone to play magic via pauper. Mono red kiln fiend vs mono white heroic

10:10 is the most important discussion for the game at large.

On Standard Rotation: If Mono Green Stompy was the dominant deck, I'll bet Crim's tone would shift *real* quick, instead of Esper Control as it is currently.

Commander is a much better way of getting new players into the game than standard. A $40 precon that you play with your friends in a casual, chill setting is a much better way to play than going to FNM and sitting against a $400 Esper Midrange deck that beats you into the ground.

Hell yeah, love Crim shouting out Knuckle Puck

Personally, I wish we had more products like the Ravnica Guild kits. I might be biased as this was how I was onboarded into the game, but these decks were perfect for teaching the basics, each deck felt unique, and each deck did its thing.

richard's 4 year prediction is the most cursed thing i've ever heard and i'm afraid he has manifested it into reality

I’m not a competitive person so as a new player I was drawn to the casual nature of commander. And my experience with commander has never been full of pressure. The others I’ve played with at my LGS are all casual. They’re are all patient and are ready to explain any card I don’t know. I recognize that’s not true for all situations but for mine it’s what endeared me to the format.

I say this almost weekly but a secondary commander format with a lower powerlevel via much larger banlist IS becomming more and more necessary. That way the most powerful (and expensive) cards are just not there for new players to worry about. Personally i would ban, among other things all tutors that search for things outside of basic lands, all free spells, extraturns, fast mana (including sol ring) as well as cards/commanders that are just unneccesary strong (rhystic study, consecrated sphinx, ur dragon,...)

Best format to onboard new players is Standard Artisan (Commons + uncommons) imo, you still have interesting build-arounds while avoiding anything too complicated. Bonus is that its super cheap.

I like the Holiday Promos, and liked your podcast about it.

I just wanna say, I've watched Seth for a while and love the content. Recently, i've been loving opinions from Richard! Thanks ya..@

Yes Richard! Standard brawl should be the new standard 😎

The answer to solving standard I think is to make the preferred standard experience a digital one. Wizards is never going to be printing sets that aren't exciting for Commander and Modern, so the only realistic way is to make standard legal cards limited in physical release. Arena is excellent at onboarding players, and its where a lot of people are playing standard. It could be the saving grace for standard.

I gotta give you guys credit. Began with what standard should look like, and ended with Crim like... "Don't talk to me, or my sorcerer son ever again!" 😂😂

I think one great way to play for new players would be Pauper. Yes, there is a huge card pool, but wizards could print some meta decks with sideboard for just 40 bucks, since the cards in the decks are "very accessible" in wizards terms. The cards don't have a huge amount of text and the game plan of the decks is mostly straightforward. They could also do a alternative art version for 100 bucks to milk a little bit more money in addition to that

I love watching Seth want to correct their pronouncing of schooner but knowing he always pronounces words wrong he just let it go

My play group consists of me and my bestfriend. We started playing officially during Ixalan / Rivals of Ixalan. Initially we were playing standard but soon after we started playing brawl came out and so we branched into that and honestly never came back. Except the issue came when the first rotation happened after we started playing... We didn't want to stop using the cards we came to know and love so we just kept playing them. This eventually became known as Historic Brawl once Arena introduced it. The issue I have with Historic Brawl on Arena is...they took brawl- a 60 card format and historic- a 60 card format and decided to make historic brawl a 100 card format on arena so they had something that could scratch the commander itch on arena. We still play a 60 card historic brawl format in paper. This doesn't really solve the "entry level" format problem but I just thought I'd share how it went down for me as a reasonably newer player.

Tidebinder seems really really good in general. I've always been a fan of draw go decks with Mystic Snake style creatures as the finishers.

new layout for the visuals!\

"It's a pretty intersting read to see like, the eyes of a designer" Oh boy do I have an article series for you. Maro makes 50 articles a year.

I could see them doing Brawl, but including the supplementary product, while keeping Standard to the Standard set releases. Could be a way of making Standard cards relevant in another format while also having a place for precons to be broken down into

I've been teaching some of my family members to play Magic, and I've been using starter decks, plus some similar-power decks made from my own collection (I had to seriously de-power these decks, OG Ixalan Vampire Commons and Uncommons was way too powerful, lol). They're great product: super cheap, a couple cards with real text but mostly 'vanilla' creatures with a keyword, or one triggered ability. Additionally, I've whipped out Archenemy: Nicol Bolas again, and that's been super fun! Even if the Archenemy is going to win every time using the base rules, it's a good time. The decks are pretty straightforward, but they have fun interaction with eachother! It's a way to introduce deck-complexity, without making the decks themselves more complex. But, none of these decks have any on-boarding towards Standard or whatever: while the starter decks ostensibly use Standard-legal cards only, they're *horrendous*, because mostly it's commons and uncommons. Not even the Rares see play: Cyclone Summoner, Ragefire Hellkite, Welcoming Vampire... Nah man. We don't have a local scene that I know of anyways, but if there was interest there, it'd involve entirely new cards aside from the basic lands. It's wild how complex Standard decks get.

I've been telling people for the last week that starting with the Final Fantasy set Universes Beyond tentpole sets going forward will all be Standard legal.

Been grinding the new bloodletter in pioneer black devotion, and yea that discover deck is wild, well see Damping Sphere in everyone's side board for a while

There are enough commander products. There is no real reason to design standard cards with commander in mind. They just need to stop that. Like at the very least put the edh cards in enchanted tale form. Create an edh sheet that isn't legal in standard. It's not hard.

Most new people starting with commander are joining their friends to play casual games to hang out and learn as they go with no need to worry about memorizing every other card. My main issue with the 60 card formats is how expensive it is to be even remotely competitive unless you're playing RDW or pauper. You can buy like 10-30commander precons and make some budget upgrades for the price of 1 60 card deck anymore.

Here’s an idea… Make standard card quality return to more vanilla/basic mechanics. Make those niche legends, but don’t make 100 of them every set. Don’t push the removal to be cheaper and cheaper. Now your sets won’t sell product, but to counter that you include expensive lands every set. Shocks, fetch, any number of multicolored conditional duals. Reprint expensive cards that are only expensive because of scarcity at rare/mythic to retain value. Boom, now there’s a powered down format with a reason to buy it.

Hawkeye is a Christmas tv show! He is literally trying to get home for Christmas lol

To Richard’s comment on the fishmail, I’ve talked about this with my LGS and pods, we’re going to have to view the game as Deckmaster. Mtg will be just one of the planes. It’ll be just like some anime tcgs that use all sorts of IP but keep the game system.

I agree that Standard is a really important thing. I started playing around 2014, and I didn't play any real formats, but I remember following Standard heavily because in the following years Standard was the center of the game. Using Blocks, maybe Core Sets, and running Standard as the center worked really well to onboard new players and keep everyone focused on the same part of the game. I think if Standard dies, so does MtG.

Wish Arena was more diversified...literally like the same 3 versions of decks. Not to mention how broken the matching systme is. I paired all the time to control decks like 90% of the time...hit a good match up for me and i get two lands the whole time or just lands. One thing I really hate about this new 3 year stuff is all the over lap and people aren't even really trying out the new cards.

Also, crim, was this tournament streamed anywhere? Ive always been big into the fgc and want to see how you did

16:10 it is not hard. Find yourself a good pod. My pod was super patient with me and also started me out against Prosper and Riona 🤣. Thanks to RU-vid a new player can get involved very easily. There is a deck tech for almost every commander out there.

Love Marvel too, Crim. But mainly, jus not diggin MtG Univers-ing Beyond into non-fantasy settings. Really jarring to me

I got in to magic playing what would be like a blend of commander and standard. I used all standard legal cards (bought deck builder toolkits and most recent booster packs... one at a time...cuz i was new and didnt understand) built 60 card decks with up to 4x a single card, but we played 4 player free for all much like commander. It was a load of fun so much so that when my buddy told me 1v1 was the true way to play mtg... i refused for a good while. but if it wasnt for the standard sets, namely the ability to buy deck builder tool kits, i may have never got so in to it. Brewing is my favorite thing, and buying singles when you first start is super expensive, easier to drop $60 on 3 toolkits, and then like 10 random boosters and build jank ass decks. I was able to build a cohesive deck for each color pair, and 1 of each mono color. most of them were almost entirely uncommons and commons, and any baller mythics were always a 1 of. but it was great and made learning much simpler. all decks had a simple theme, like: Life gain, Deathtouch, exalted, flyers, burn, etc. then once i started getting more familiar with all the different mechanics and possibilities, i started brewing more intricate decks. Mostly on MODO but alwasy had a couple decks in paper at min.

i just wanna note that pokemon does power creep via numbers instead of complexity 10years ago the highest hp number on a pkm was 180 nowadays its like 320 🙂

I wonder how long until we get textless cards with a QR code at the bottom. You scan the QR code to see the 4 paragraphs of text in gatherer or the companion app.

I think the best way to teach people magic is starter packs or jump start packs. You get two packs slap them together and play. They will quickly learn the basics and then what they like or don’t like or what their decks are missing based on what they see other decks do. The only reason commander is the go to is because you will guarantee that you can find a game at a store and you can always find a game. Going to a game store to play standard either isn’t happening or you playing against sweaty players.

I started playing magic this year in February. Me and my best friend started playing with the Starter Kit and I think that works relatively well. But we switched to commander within a month so I dunno Also I would love to play competitively, but magic feels much more expensive than other card games

Most important for rhinos, is that tidebinder stops chalice of the void

I knew that Crim was a Juri main, before I knew that Crim played Fighting Games. Grats on the win!

I'm a boomer, and my buddy is a boomer (or are we older than boomer?). Our significant others both had learned MTG via 60 card. We tried to teach the kids (12, 13, 14, 14) via commander as they were interested, and we had many more decks. Even with low power decks, mono colored even, we finally gave up as they became frustrated even at 1 on 1, and broke out a mono green, boros, mono red, and gruul pioneer/old standard decks and literally sat down alongside each player. It isnhard enough to get basics, but tracking 2 or 3 players was impossible for them. Unfortunately, because of our errors, 1 kid just walked away from the game, and two others prefer 60 card. We really need a solid entry land, and 2 year rotation with only cards entering the entry level format. Not sure if that will be the solid answer, but commander is NOT an entry level for young players. Heck, teaching someone to draft is easier than teaching someone to track 4 decks, let alone a new perso with possibly 3 teachers as well.

I don't see them cutting down to *just* Dominaria (I'd doubt they drop Ravnica and Innistrad, for example) but I do think there's a real possibility Universes Beyond eventually eclipses the original Magic IP in importance

I don't think standard is so bad. the problem I have with it though is that every card generates a ton of value on it's own, you don't really need to be crafty with deck building. just play all the best rares at each spot on the curve and there you go. My most recent "brew" in standard is "Jund 2 ofs" litereally exactly what it sounds like and it does pretty well on the ladder.

Of the 3 of you hosts, do any of you have and play Paper Standard decks?

Hey Richard, are you playing Jund Saga or just Jund? I would love to see your build.

So, the goldfish crew wants a 4th Portal set? Make it the new standard and current standard will be called standard plus…maybe extended..that sounds like a good name. We had the answers all along, they’re from 30 years ago.

The power creep of commander filters into power creep in standard, as does the complexity creep. Concern about power creep should be universal as a result, and yet people are disappointed that there isn't a "better than teferi's protection" staple printed with every single suite of commander decks.

Pauper Standard is what you are looking for

20:20 100% agree with richard and I've been on/off playing magic for over a decade and a half. I miss when Vanilla and French Vanilla creatures were expected and very playable and easy to pick up. There are just too many new mechanics for me to keep track of these days and my smooth brain can't handle remembering everything WotC prints in every new set. I feel like taking the best (and by best I mean, most intuitive, simple and least wordy) mechanics we've gotten from FIRE and re-introducing core sets focused on the classic game design as it once was would be great for the health of the game but heres where some uncomfortable truths pop up. This means most of the product you bought for the last few years would need to be purged in this reimagined format and the slate wiped clean because to be frank, core sets with simple mechanics didn't sell well because they aren't generally competitive with the named sets we get today.

As a totally new player (literally played my first ever game on arena last weekend) I think I have a unique perspective on the whole onboarding thing. Might be different with arena compared to paper but after ranking out of alchemy I was unsure what format I wanted to try so I did some research and settled on standard. mostly because it's easier to build a collection starting off on arena. Honestly it seems great for new players. I dropped some cash netdecked a dino deck and threw myself in. The game is really straightforward especially compared to yugioh. I would love to try commander at my lgs when I get a better grasp on the game but like you said it's intimidating having such a huge card pool and being about 25 years behind the curve. TL DR standard seems like the best place for a new player to learn how competitive magic works.

The way I introduce new players is the Jumpstart product. It's super simple and plays more like a board game while teaching the rules. Standard has always been a little difficult as a starting point, even in the past, because the cost is intimidating to someone new to tcgs.

Sam Black thinking the problem is confusing legality doesn't super make sense when Standard hit a decline before the explosion of new products but after the advent of supplemental products. It just doesn't match with the timing. Players clearly could understand MH1 and Commander decks weren't legal, then got bored, then Wizard kept cranking out products. In general their conclusion requires seeing Wizards as some force of nature that is beholden to printing UB and Commander. If other formats are detracting from Standard that's because Wizard's focus is split and yeah, maybe you have to cut Standard but the question wasn't even about Standard the format but the idea behind Standard, and neither of Black's solutions fix that problem.

Richard, if we collapse down to one plane and only print Universes Beyond, do you think we will see the two collide? Are we getting a Savage Punch reprint where Captain America punches Teferi? Will the two ever interact?

Standard needs to change faster, ideally by rotating out a set every time a new set is introduced. There also needs to be prize support from wizards, like cool standard fnm promos or big tournament purses. Stale formats and support killed standard, but it’s not hard to bring it back.

Crim has a HITBOX on the way! guarenteed

You get players in by making cards that represent ideas that they recognize. (Like, mechanically - UB does it thematically, and sometimes also mechanically which is good, but sometimes not, which is fine on the whole - it just means UB is not the answer to what I mean). You know what hurts standard? 1-off keywords that need to be supported to justify their existence. Some are great, no question, but most ultimately come to mean very little, and because they have to keep making more and more, fewer and fewer are evoking any concept from *outside* of Magic. That means they're playing on concepts that are only found in Magic, so the only people that understand them quickly are people that already play Magic. Even without keywords, there are so many cards made in the last few years that are good precisely because they operate on the mechanics of the game rather than using the mechanics to create the sensation of what the card thematically represents. Maro has said plenty of times that Flying is the best keyword because within the game it does exactly what you would think it does, based on what you know from outside of the game. Standard is full of cards that are good only when you understand the game well enough to know how to break it - i.e usually with some kind of resource or tempo advantage. That combination - i.e the better players and the cards that only the better players intuitively know are by far the better ones to use - is how you make new players run screaming.

Me andy friend are going to try to go to the Vegas next year. Excited.

16:42 exactly 🎉

I'd like brawl if you can use commander precon cards and rotate. I wanna use those cards in other formats

Definitely would love to meet any of you at Amsterdam but it's understandable you wouldn't go out of your own Pocket. Though you definitely should visit a European Magic Event at some point just to experience the Difference to a MTG Event which is mostly just Americans, and then an MTG Event that has People from all the 44 different European Countries. Lots of cultural Differences, especially if you play against others or go to a stand to buy something. Prost & Cheers from the Bavarian Alps

I want blocks back. And maybe a 2 year rotation. I have alot of fun brewing and playing standard meta decks on Arena. If I had to go and purchase all those standard cards to brew IRL like I did when I was a young lad(2000-2011). It would be too much to keep going. Let alone as a young kid without a job haha. Standard has been a really fun format with the bigger card pool and would be a great time in pre2020 magic. But now I feel like the fragile relationship of LGS to wotc must be impacting standard to a degree.

Limited should be the format for new players.

Tidebinder has a good body, cost, effect, and 2 very good creature types. Dont forget it's a wizard and Flame of Anor is a real card.

Richard makes me feel like such a boomer when he was saying that new players need a four mana 4/4, understand untapping, draw and main face, and get their mind blowns when you teach them you can giant growth mid combat, yet he is so right. I've seen so many of my friends not like magic because commander is insanely hard to understand.

yall should really host a few lgs owners or TOs on podcasts that cover topics like this. and I don't mean the big stores find some smaller local stores that have to push pull and interact with their community to come out.

"Anyone can whip out 2 million dollars" 5 head take right there

Dr. Strange 1UR Legendary creature - Human Wizard 2/3 "Your haste creatures have +1 power."

I believe to this day...Prerelease is the best way to teach peeps in my opinion!

I get that standard could be limited due to card pool and restrictive keywords. But, I can say with confidence no one of my local gamestores play standard everyone plays commander. People are going to want to play with the people they know. That means they will jump into commander. Just introduce them to arena and go from there.

Wasn’t Adventures in the Forgotten Realms a Universes Beyond set?

55:00 universes beyond; Pokemon will be a thing to celebrate the 10 generation of pokemon, whenever that happens. It will feature the Companion mechanics, and the restrictions will literally just be commander colour identity rules.

I stopped playing mtg after darksteel and came back in original ixalan. Standard helped me get back to the game. I don't envy new people trying to learn the game with the million cards that come out a week..

What if they did a section on arena that was like portal's portal? 3 kingdoms just for new players to learn and they have access to all the cards for free just for learning.

"I can't believe they brought back Cascade!" Well at least we only have to deal with it for 2 years. Oh. Wait. 😂

Honestly, what makes the most sense to me in terms of balancing WOTC's desire for money with the health of onboarding, they need to make a "core set" product that they release each year alongside standard rotation. This would be a non-randomized "starter collection" of cards that are all legal in standard for the upcoming year. The core set then also acts as it's own format where you can play decks of these cards against each other. And the kicker is that buying this physical product would give the player a key to get a copy of it on Arena so they can play the same exact decks there and in paper. This would set up an intro format that both incentivises players to buy packs/singles to upgrade into standard while also giving them an explicit format that they don't need to feel like they are gatekept out of by virtue of still learning the game. And since the cards are all standard legal, enfranchised players may be able to easily build decks for the fomat anyway without buying the set, increasing the opportunity for new players to be able to find opponents to play against.

One Piece is the one game i've seen where Vanillas still see regular play a year after the game release. It's pretty funny seeing toplists and bam theres a vanilla 4c there just because they are big

arena is kinda the best on boarding currently, like by far

I played against tishana's in rinos they stifled one rings and karn

The Gandalf point was a really good one but think about how they treated the greatest Planeswalker in the multiverse... Urza got 3 cards and they all essentially sucked

This game is for the smartest highest IQ people alive. This game is not for the casual, or even average brain. The biggest problem of the game and has always been is that the rarity of the cards make them expensive to nerds seeking power and higher win ratios for their decks. This is why Commander Precons are the best entry route into the game. Paying $50 for a deck that can compete and sometimes win is awesome. I just built an Atraxa counters deck full of what we would call Best in Slot Commander Staples and guess what my deck costs $1000 dollars and I don't have any OG dual lands. Only the most insane people can begin to upgrade to this level. We love the game so much we are willing to spend $1000 plus dollars on a single deck. We are insane. The monetary entry level into the power eschelons into this game is beyond insane. And then even with my 1000 dollar Atraxa deck, I run into these guys with 2,000 + decks, who have Mana Crypt, moxes, and lands that give mana even before turn 1, so that they can demonic tutor before turn one, to thoracle combo on turn one. CEDH is the worst way to play this game, any deck that can tutor into a two card winning combo on turn one is absolute over powered, broken bullshit, it's a game design nightmare of the highest order, there is a reason CHannel/Fireball was banned after the very very first Magic tournement that it easily dominated. And yet CEDH is predicated on that kind of Channel/Fireball two card instant win combos. Casual EDH is the best way to experience this game. Yet our decks can still cost $1000 and only hope to win once in a while.

In terms of onboarding new players, what about a format like Pauper? No rotation, but has low card quality and generally simpler cards.

When Richard kept talking about Discover into a rampant growth not being bad, does he know you have to draw the rampant growth?

I was super intimidated playing against 3 people, who I didn't know, at FNM (edh)

Man the thing that irks me about people saying to kill Standard is that outside of Sheoldred and Atraxa being too powerful for the format imo, Standard is in a super great place right now! I've been playing a ton of Standard since WoE and Ixalan and the variety of different brews I've seen has been awesome. That being said, any rotating format will always be a hard sell for MtG cause it's so expensive. If you want to make a good standard deck right now it's going to cost you at least a couple hundred bucks, and those cards are going to rotate, or be pushed out of the meta when a new set comes out. With eternal formats and Commander there's maybe 1-3 cards you'll pick up for your deck when a set comes out? Otherwise your deck always works. I've been loving Standard, but only on Arena where I can craft all the absurdly expensive cards and overpriced mana bases for free using wild cards.

Crim not a boomer! Just very smart.