These Mysterious Coffins Hide the Story of Elden Ring’s Past: Part I | Elden Ring Archaeology Ep. 25 

Right? I feel like I have been really patient waiting for our favorite tarnished to return.

I like this comment also because the DLC was very good to FTH builds lol

Arise now, ye tarnished.

Huzzah!

Long did we abide without his grace, but he has returned!

Exactly, I feel like the inspiration behind the lore is equally, if not more important, than it's implications. It really brings things into perspective.

Honestly when I watch a 30+ minute lore video and it's just reviewing things we see directly in game with no kind of speculation or insight, I go hollow

The more I watch this channel, the more I am convinced you could teach a history of civilization using the analogues in Elden Ring (and maybe other fromsoft games).

Yes!!!

@@navypilot47 You honestly could, especially with Elden Ring. It's really a testament to the writers and Miyazaki (shoutout to GRRM too who no doubt had a big hand in this as well). You can really tell that Miyazaki studied the humanities and specifically majored in Sociology throughout each game by how the stories are presented and the ideas they draw from. No doubt working as an artist/writer under someone with that type of background really lets you flourish as a creator and bring new twists and ideas to the table based on real world inspiration. FromSoftware fans really have been blessed these last 15 years or so. Literally my favorite type of storytelling(subtle without huge exposition), wrapped in otherworldly mysteries, while being based on real world history and myth. We cant take this shit for granted.

Qohaleth

to be granted audience one more... wait a minute... TOGETHAAAA... no thats not it. uuuuuuh oh I got it! NIHIL

Oh THAT’S what that was about!

Lol I definitely saw this and actually did suspect that's what this meant, thanks for the confirmation

Aye I saw your messages

I saw a couple of these!

I actually saw a few of these holy shit

::O Mother Emote::

Such many thumbs

DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO FRIENDLY MESSAGE!!! *likes video*

Friend, O Friend

Something incredible ahead, therefore praise the message.

It truly is. What's crazy is they could have put 10% of the amount of detail and it still would have been staggering. And the funny thing is, the vast majority of players have absolutely no idea about any of this (including me if it wasn't for people like TA). That just shows that they really respect their audiences intelligence (probably a little too much 😅).

THE ROCK HAS COME BACK TO THE BACK

Back that archeology up.

bro, we are BACK!

Funny you should say that. We will definitely be making a Rauh video eventually.

​@@tarnishedarchaeologist why is ghostflame in the putrescence spells blue? it doesnt look like the ghostflame spells or torches and matches the blue fire torches of caria manor instead. the colors of fire are definitly the real most fascinating aspect of the dlc along side the colors of flowers which also have new context

@@okname5335 I read a theory that Ghostflame used to be purple, and that it was the sealing of the Destined Rune of Death that discoloured it, leaving Ghostflame as blue since Destined Death is red-black.

@@Nothrazim- iirc that's explicitly in-game text

​@lettuceprime4922 which text?

No one puts it together like TA.

The only thing that worries me is I’m not sure that ending question is answering a concern we should have. We’ve seen stone coffins float and travel up waterfalls. There should be no concern that they can float along any ordinary stream of water.

Could it be that the worship of a luminous tree began in an impact winter? If the sky was choked with ash, it would block out the sunlight. Plants and animals and people would die. But if a fancy new tree was able to grow in spite of that, and shed its own light? That'd be reason enough to convert. It'd be a miracle.

Doesn't this mess up TA's timeline a bit? The whole premise of the magma theory is that is connected to the civilization that built the Divine Towers, and that that was the first civilization (or at least the oldest that we still have evidence for), and TA connected that to what amounts to the Rauh civilization post-DLC. Also I wonder how the crucible will connect to all this since as some other Lore creators have pointed out the Crucible seems to be a far more shapeless, esoteric force that existed in the Lands Between from the begining, rather than the Great Tree. The trees are connected to it as we can see from the Crucible Knights depiction of a tree and the Hornsents twin spiral tree.

@@phillidaadamus4349 Not necessarily... the mountain Bayle is on is a craggy mountain that very well could be a dormant volcano similar to Gelmir and even looks like a volcano. Probably just a coincidence and choice to have a mirror to mt gelmir zone in the DLC like they do with all the main zones, but they rarely do that without reason.

Following your idea that the surface turned magma, I always noticed that the entire lands between seem to be formed by interlocking basalt columns (look at places like the plateau of Manus Celes) which in the real world are the result of an volcanic fissure eruption (the same geological phenomenon that originated the Giant's Causeway in Northern Ireland). Now we can't know if the devs chose that geological appearance to communicate something, like that the lands between originated from a volcanic fissure eruption and/or to make look the terrain "artificial", or just because it's cool and enhances the sense of fantasy of the world

Couldnt have said it any better 🤗

Playing the games like this what turned them into masterpieces for me. They were always engaging and thrilling to run through boss to boss, area to area. But really taking my time and digesting the art and environmental storytelling is what makes them All-time great games, IMO. And its made better because the stuff you're looking at is often placed intentionally by the Devs.

I'd go so far as to say that TA and others who make content like him have changed how I play games as a whole. I pay a lot more attention to the little details and set designs, and sometimes that has resulted in me having a much greater experience. For instance, I recently replayed Lies of P and started paying a lot more attention to the environmental storytelling and it definitely added to the fun.

a lot of times i stopped and just started looking around, the DLC is easily one of the best artistical works that fromsoft ever did, Elden ring already had amazing compositions and colors schemes, the dlc has so many extremely cool places

YES! I found myself theorizing what these coffins were used for and it seems that I was probably way off, but still

Shhhhhh. Don't spoil the next vid.

GRRM does have an Atlantis fetish.

IT ALL MAKES SENSE

Technically, even stone boats can float on water.

I think also its world design lends to the feeling of uncanny-ness and chaos - its weird and wild, chaotic and twisty world design that laps into each other also gives the player a sense that these cultures, that would be seen as individuated and distinct in the Lands Between, all seamlessly and uncannily blend into each other in the Land of Shadow. After all, the Realm of Shadows is explicitly stated to be the realm where Order does not exist. It’s a place where the Crucible was once the strongest. As such, the developers made such an incredibly uncanny, yet familiar, land that feels like a melting pot of multiple substances, old and new. Just like the crucible itself. And such is the case that developing the conclusions on the answers of Elden Ring’s story, through Shadow of the Erdtree, will take the community much longer than it did with the basegame’s Lands Between

TA really out here winning months long arguments for me 🙏🏼🗣

Yep, crazy how things work out. Really, they're doubters of fromsofts environmental storytelling.

LET EM KNOW TA

Yeah I didn't see the Vaati/TA beef coming. Diss tracks and clap backs included 😂.

So many people that I know say that it's the developers running out of ideas smh if only they had the attention span to watch TA

Shhhh

It has to be. On the archways of the Divine Towers doorways, you can see reliefs of human shapes and they are the same as the bodies depicted on the doorways of the stone coffins. There is a direct 1:1 relationship between the two. The molten lava idea is very exciting one to see fleshed out.

and these towers circle the Shadow of The Erd Tree map.

I've always thought that Charo was the name of the dead dragon at the communion church. The red flowers are like the Calorblooms.

Excellent point about the Twinbird

@@Tainuo frankly, I doubt that the dragon is Charo. The area is called Charo's Hidden Grave and say what you will about the difficulty in the current time period to reach the area, it is by no means hidden. Anybody with a sufficiently lengthy piece of rope could get there without having to face the Ancient Dragon Man

@@patriciapandacoon7162 Fair enough, but my point about the flower color still stands!

This might be a huge stretch on my part, but just throwing this out there since Fromsoft did include a lion dancer in Bellurat so maybe they are using influence from many ancient civilizations rather than just Babylonian. In Chinese culture there are two distinct types of Phoenix ( 凤 and 凰 ) one male and one female, and phoenixes were believed to have a higher status than dragons in ancient china, but as the emperors of China, which took the dragon as their symbol, became more centralized in their rule, the phoenix's status was diminished and made subordinate to the dragon. This could be implying that the death rite civilization preceded the dragons, or initially had a harmonious relationship and then conflict arose, but honestly I have no idea and maybe that wouldn't fit other lore but this is just something that popped into my head as a Mandarin speaker.

How do you know ghost flame used to be purple??

@@alexrocky9147 from grave violet item: "A purple flower that blooms in graveyards. Material used for crafting items. The hue of ghostflame, it's believed to be useful in calling forth spirits." so the original ghostflame was purple, probabley a mix of red-blue of the twinbird god that lorded over death and guided the spirit to the afterlife. and for X reason, the power diminished, and the ghostflame became a pale white.

That's actually a fascinating route that I haven't thought about but in retrospect makes a lot of sense.

@@phillidaadamus4349 Thing like Leda's line, _“They were never saints. They just happened to be on the losing side of a war. But it's still a wretched shame.”_ is as much self-reflection on the post-war trauma Japan experienced as it is a perspective about the suffering other nations like China experienced from Imperial Japan. (This duality is also something used heavily in *_Final Fantasy VII_* with the post-war relationship between Midgar & Wutai being as much a reflection of America & Japan as it is Japan & China). From a long history of civil war, Japan's history of portraying conflicts where there is no singular side that's right, but just one that's victorious over a particular injustice which leads to a different type of reflection of that struggle & oppression as that Empire attempts to make itself eternal. Since Babylon was the Biblical analogue for the Roman Empire, it has a lot of strong mythological foundation in allegorical parallels to the rise of religious unification and imperial expansion that easily tie in with how Western Fantasy represents certain themes. The *_Souls_* games and *_Elden Ring_* in particular have a very specific Japanese-history-centered design that's not always immediately apparent, since it's such a close match to other Western Fantasy that doesn't have those elements, but feels nearly the same.

Bro had us waiting ❤😂

You missed a core element: the rot god was sealed by a blind swordsman long ago, one who seems to predate Marika - certainly predated Malenia. The Lake of Rot, where the god was sealed, is all Ancient Dynasty construction.

@@WanderedIn Ah, dicks- you're probably right. Are we sure the swordsman isn't a metaphor for the river Siofra though? I've heard that floated around quite a bit, no pun intended.

We do use a stone coffin ship which uses light glyphs to defy gravity and levitate, something I figured implied space travel

A fellow Irving Finkel fan I see.

@@tarnishedarchaeologist Very much

Wah that Carian connection I had not heard yet. Where can I go to learn about that? The Latvian sources would be cool too.

Well now, there's a very interesting thought - the Latvian mythology connection? Being Latvian myself, are you by chance making a connection between Marika and Māra of the Latvian myth? Because there are most certainly a lot of similiarities here that I can see, from being intimately involved in the cycle of birth and death, to weaving the threads of fate. And if we go this path, hell, our bearded Dynast aka Elden John could well be a stand-in counterpart for Dievs (our word for "God"), who is the head of the pantheon and is ever the guiding force in the myth. Māra is also known to be the goddess of cows that ancient Latvians sacrificed to by leaving offerings next to sacred trees, and she has many signs, from a cross to a wave pattern, to a downward triangle, to even the sign of the grass serpent... And of course, there is the very obvious Mary connection as well, the syncretism of the Christian mythos with the pagan faith to keep at least parts of it acceptable, weaving in the old faith into the new one that was spread with sword and fire. I am just now running through the other demigods through this filter, and for one, Miquella might well be a reflection of Miķelis, the later and most likely Christianized name for our male deity of harvest and fertility Jumis, his association with the Autumn solstice and ushering in the longer nights of the winter... But Jumis is symbolized by a twinning in nature - two vegetables or fruits fused together, two yolks in one egg et cetera... The tragedy of the Latvian mythology is that a lot of it is very much veiled and obscured by the intense Christianization of the past. There are practically no written records, most of it is entirely passed down through oral storytelling, and even the the ancient poems written down in the 19th century are just that - a collection of oral tradition, written down, with little proof of authenticity. How much of the themes are native to the Latvian (and Lithuanian for that matter) myth, and how much are elements of Ancient Greek and Christian mythos seeping in, that is difficult to tell with a certainty. Many have also posited a Hindu connection to the Baltic languages and myths, as there are sections of our language that are very akin to Sanskrit. But this, in turn, gives your simple comment so much weight - as the very theme of Shadow of the Erdtree is of the history lost, of truths submerged, buried, weaved together with what came after. Lots to ponder!

@@thesunthrone I’m glad someone from the region can give some of their own insight into what I’ve been looking into. I do think Norse, Celtic, and as T.A brings up Mesopotamian culture and mythological parallels are all prevalent. But I’ve come to believe the central structure of Elden Rings cosmology is at the least heavily influenced if not taken by George as the basis for the structure of the universe and its relationship to the gods of the game. I will be spoiling the DLC so do not read much further unless you’ve finished the DLC or are indifferent to knowing. I’d assume you’re not gonna fret being on a theory video about the DLC but better safe than sorry lol. Māra is one of 2 Latvian and more broadly Baltic region gods I believe Marika can be compared to. The other would be Saulē, the goddess of the sun. As you brought up, the pagan religion was largely obscured as the area became more Christianized, so I had a hard time finding solid textual reference(this is mirrored in the games story and themes of the golden orders oppression of old ways through violence despite a peaceful message as you said). But what I found was physical descriptions that somewhat resemble Marika. Saulē is obviously tied to golden colors and wears golden lined clothing and gold shoes. But also notably silver, another compound/color that is prevalent in Elden Ring and does have ties to Marika in the more obscure lore via the silver tears and albinaurics. Saulē also owns a variety of golden tools, similar to Marika’s golden seamstress tools we find in game specifically designed for altering the attire of demigods. Although some of the “gleaming” terminology with Metyr may connect her as well, and seemingly so if she is a mother of the two fingers that led to Marika’s ascension. I think the aspect of Saulē’s mythos that plays most into Marika, is the extremely similar concept of the “celestial wedding drama” within the mythology where the sun and moon, or one of the sun and moons children wed. This not only melded decently to the main game, but even moreso to the DLC. In the myth of the celestial wedding, an “Axis Mundi” which in the pagan mythology seemed to be a world tree, and specifically one that “no one had ever seen” despite looking for it sometimes all their lives. Which aligns well with even more lore that the Erdtree cannot be seen by everyone in the lands between, most likely those without grace who see the physical husk the tree really is or perhaps it’s something else entirely. It is said that the “solar deity” is spied on at the world tree by male deities, which the gender is most likely inconsequential to the games story but that’s what I was able to find. Eventually this solar deity is abducted and thereafter wed, in most versions of the myth, to the moon, Mēness. Which aligns with the consistent gold and blue intertwining we see with Radagon and Renalla, and now Miquella and Radahn. Even if Radahn is also technically a child of gold as well, he is indefinitely the moon to Miquella’s sun. But Māra also has definite ties. Being tied to the term “Austras Koks” which’s seems to be be translated as “tree of life” or “tree of dawn.” Along with her being the other half of the sky god Dievs. However I think Māra would best fit the essential mother of the lands between. Mother Nature in a sense…a formless mother perhaps? But that’s entirely speculation. There’s still plenty of connections with Marika and Māra and not just the similar names. But I’ll explain my reasoning more. Dievs I believe is not Elden John but synonymous with the greater will itself. Dievs is the sky god, and birthed all the celestial deities from himself. From sources I’ve read one of the major differences in religious interpretations with Latvian mythology is the gods are not typically physical beings or human in form. It seems ancient Latvian paganism was aware of the difference in the celestial bodies but still worshipped them as sentient, along with giving it seems potentially hundreds of “mother” titles that were deified titles for aspects of nature and the pure essence that drives them. Similar to Māra being mother of cows. It seems everything from rain and trees and even fog had a “mother” which constituted its form in the world. And the current in game evidence suggests the greater will is in fact a black hole, and most likely the “lightless void far away” that Astel and all of the fallingstar beasts were born from. To move away from mythology quickly, black holes mathematically speaking contain a singularity at their center. This “center” isn’t solid within space time obviously because space time itself breaks down within these cosmic phenomena but this singularity seems to be the “origin point” in a sense of a black hole. There is heavy debate within academia still on the exact nature of the Big Bang and even more debate on the true state of the universe pre-big bang. But a theory that’s within discussion is the universe having been “born” from this singularity of subatomic size. Which, seems to imply, even if not magically or in a commonly accepted religious context, that the universe was an absolute, that “fractured” and from that came life and births and death. Which aligns really well with Dievs being the greater will. This also spices up some of the relation between Māra and Dievs. Because she is said to be the other half of Dievs. The earth to sky. If the formless mother really is just Mother Nature and the Earth, and the greater will the void of space I wonder if Marika’s ascension went through the formless mother somehow. Perhaps she really was stuffed in a jar and came out as “Marika” but I think it’s more likely the serpent has something to do with that. Scum Mage Infa has been doing a really good series on the “grandmother”. The giant throne sitting skelly of the eternal cities. He’s postulated the idea of “spirit transfer” and discusses the logic of summoning and controlling spirits in lore as well as the idea of transferring a soul or spirit into a new vessel of some type. Perhaps Marika also had an encounter with the formless mother, being a Shaman she’s in tune with nature and the Earth it seems, despite Japanese game text hinting at the Numen coming from space. Serpents are tied to the dead and spirit communion especially within context of the symbol for Zalktis. Perhaps the formless mother is the fractured half of the greater will that formed the physical world from her half, and any and all outer gods that serve as cyclical forces of rebirth are aspects of her being. Māra is said to take the persons body in death, while Dievs the soul. So perhaps the formless mother is the cyclical essence that rot, putrescence and any outer god manipulation of the physical form is an aspect of “Māra” or as Elden Ring interprets it. The formless mother. Perhaps the serpents serve as some sort of mediator for the formless mother. The abyssal serpent within Messmer may add to this theory. Not to mention the name, the Formless Mother. If the greater will is in fact the void. There’s a clear connection linguistically between the two. Lightless and formless are much the same thing. Light is the essence of all form. All matter emits light. To be formless, is much the same as lightless in that context. The connections with Jumis and Miķelis as representing Miquella is extremely interesting and something I have not known. That’s not something I could find anywhere on any obscure site discussing Latvian mythology and historical texts. I’ll have to go back, because the only notable thing I could remember immediately was Jumis’ relation to the harvest, which aligns with Miquellas cut content ending the “age of abundance”. Which I suppose aligns well still with an age of compassion. I think the only other thing I’ve found with potential ties to Elden Ring is the existence of Laima within Elden Ring, and the goddesses of fate. Laima is said to decide a child’s fate at birth, in some versions there’s three Laimas for a child and each gives a separate fate. But they regardless play a role in deciding someone’s ultimate fate and their “luck” as the name implies. The Lithuanian version of the Laima tells that she was related to the cuckoo oddly enough. Of which we know of the somewhat mysterious “Knights of the Cuckoo” in game which may have some inspiration. There is a divine bird confirmed to be died to life death and rebirth with the divine bird warriors… And to top it off, it’s said the Laimas sacred tree is a linden. The same species as the Erdtree. Implications continue that Marika wrested her fate out of the stars somehow, perhaps hinting at the origin of her dark ascension to godhood. Lots to ponder indeed. I got way carried away with this as I tend to do. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this!

@@lillonerboi504 Oh yeah, there is lots to ponder! I've been going through what I recall of the folk beliefs myself in my head, and I'm certainly making some linguistic connections - but they may well just fit what's shown in the game than the actual source inspiration. Either way, very fun to consider. The reason why I mentioned the Dievs and Elden John parallel is because in many of the folk tales featuring Dievs, it is with him in a sort of folk hero status, showing the way or facing Velns (Devil, but a much more trickster sense than the Biblical sense). In our folk beliefs, Dievs is very commonly depicted as an old, wise man with a long beard - pretty much the image of the wise king, wise chieftain archetype - truly, not too different from the Wanderer aspect of Odin/Wotan in Norse myth, who can simply appear amidst mortals to resolve some menial trifle. Therefore, my angle was that Elden John would be more akin to this depicted ideal of the people as a whole, this wise man that at first just observes (as is in the Land of Shadow depictions) and then guides (as is in Lands Between). There may also be a duality at play here, as like you say, the Baltic faiths at once humanized the gods but also held them away from the mortal realm, understanding that they are forces well beyond the regular folk. As with most religions, there is still a need to translate that concept to the layperson - because not everyone is a learned shaman, most folks just need the cliffnotes of the faith, not the entire corpus of the esoteric beliefs. And so, the Greater Will can well be depicted as Elden John, too - saying "hey, this is what you should do now, you who resemble this man" - while the later Golden Order can afford a more esoteric viewing again, because there is already a personable goddess to look upon: Marika. As for the solar deity angle, I find it very interesting for the following reason. In most western occult traditions influenced by the hermetic tradition, the Sun is traditionally masculine. However, Latvian is a strictly gendered language, and so every noun has a gender assigned to it. The Sun or Saule - is feminine. The Moon, likewise, in the western occult traditions is depicted as feminine - yet in Latvian, once again, Mēness is instead masculine. In Japanese mythology, the Sun is likewise feminine and the Moon masculine - Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi respectfully. And so, Elden Ring decides to simply unify the paradoxes - Marika and Radagon can both play the role of Sun the Father or Sun the Mother as needed, and this duality is further extended towards Rennala's line in Caria, where the Moon is considered masculine and a certain lineage is established with him, with Rennala and Ranni as the lunar daughters to be wed to the solar sons. There's so much play with dualities in Elden Ring lore, it truly is fascinating. As Radahn is the son of Sun and Moon both, no wonder Miquella sought to resurrect him in the Land of Shadow, thus pushing him into that lunar aspect fully for their union to better fit the celestial drama. The linguistic angle that I found interesting is, first, Radagon. It sounds very much like "rada uguni", which in turn means "creates fire". But unified into "radugun'", it can also mean "fire of creation" if read with a more poetic interpretation of some Latvian dialects that like to erase the last few letters of the words. And Radagon has that link with the fire giants... But of course, the affinity of fire also fits the solar deity role, while his depiction as the smith that is perfecting the Elden Ring fits that "fire of creation" angle as well. And to return to that gendered language part, "uguns" or fire is feminine in Latvian, despite at a glance appearing to be written in a masculine way... That's what is so fascinating about the Fromsoft games as a whole - it is clear they are made by very creative people with deep interests in the world cultures and myths, and they love to play with them, seeking out even more obscure angles to make things more interesting. There's definitely more and more to delve into here, and now I am curious to replay the game with my own folk faiths' angle in mind!

@@thesunthrone My mother is half Lithuanian and half Italo-Polish.

Not the only one, but perhaps the best mixture of comparing both elements and from introducing a mystery to a most potential final conclusion

@@normanbates7373 can you recommend other er lore creators?

@@RBRB343 can you recommend me another one? Thanks

@@normanbates7373 can you give me some suggestions? Thx

@@tinchoman2 Quite not all but a few: Kitetales Quelaag Scum mage infa ...

Fun fact: the image of the wise old bearded man as a god was originally the Canaanite god El, but over the course of jewish history, El's likeness and gentle loving qualities became merged with the hebrew god of violent storms and war - Yahweh.

@@HamsterPants522This is a good point. Also explains why the Old and New Testaments of the Bible often explain “God” in contradictory fashion. Throughout centuries El’s and Yahweh’s qualities became intertwined

@@TravisRyan9 Yes. It just changed with the culture, like how all religions have.

Thanks. But don't skip anymore classes!

​@@tarnishedarchaeologistTHIS!

But there are no bulls in all of the Lands Between! We have torrent and we have star beasts as the closest things, and they do look a lot more like torrent.

@@Xandros999 there is a lot of bull imagery in ancient dynasty stuff albeit small and hard to notice. This video literally shows some of it.

Alas, someone else has noticed it ^^ I also wondered if it was by any means an ancient ancestor or incarnation of the same, hem, spirit, entity...? In any case, Torrent right in the game events as his "ancestor" or previous iteration if not a stylised representation, is clearly meant to be "THE psychopomp" of the lands between; hence it's omnipresence, as well as his name, after all: Torrent... Seems obvious!

I’ll add that while the two trees align on the maps, this would not put their actual locations together. To do that, the Scadutree’s base on the map should be approximately aligned with the Stone Platform, with some margin of error for the Scadutree’s tilt

Sadly I'm drawing a blank myself.

@SquirrelSword Lava is the only thing I can think of. But "stone ships wouldn't float on water" is so obvious in hindsight that it felt like a slap when he brought it up, only to be hit with the "to be continued" right after. A lore video has never hit me with such an effective cliffhanger before