These Scions Don't Belong In Dawntrail (Final Fantasy XIV Lore) 

Cid Garlond. He fulfills his important role in both ARR and Heavensward, then fall back to take a minor role in Stormblood, Shadowbringers, and Endwalker. He doesn't overstay his welcome. Be like Cid Garlond.

One thing I was thinking about was that the previews to Dawntrail made it seem as though we would have some sort of conflict within the Scions regarding their choice of who to help for the Dawnservant trials. All we really got was Thancred blocking our path briefly in a dungeon and that was it. There was no real conflict at all with the Scions, even at the very end with Living Memory. They just seemed to agree on a path and we went along.

The moment our random assortment of Scions just walked in through the door of the 99 dungeon, in a world and environment they have no experience with, and clarify to us that they've already been brought up to date on everything and they have a full understanding on what's going on is the moment I realized that our friends have literally just been transmuted to lifeless bodies for us to use in solo duties.

1. They wrote Krile as part of the Wuk Lamat's team and asked G'raha to stayed behind for the School of Baldesion so that Krile could trace the truth of what Galuf Baldesion did in Tural. Not only Krile didn't get the journey she deserved(there weren't many traces of Galuf Baldesion's presence in Tural), they retconned that setup by having G'raha hopped back in midway of the plot. G'raha was a good addition for later parts, but the reason for why G'raha stayed behind became pointless and it would've been better if they didn't put that out and let G'raha joined us right from the start. 2. Thancred and Urianger were hyped to be the assisting the rivals of the throne race, but their presence were barely felt in the competition. There were good moments of the duo with Koana, but it clearly wasn't enough. Koana's growth became a pivotal moment for what came to the end of the race, and if the writers had the intention of going that direction they should've given Team Koana more moments instead of Team Wuk Lamat most of the screentime. 3. I feel like both twins should've stayed in Garlemald. There is absolute nothing they can learn from Tural's rise to prosperity because that's literally what Eorzean Alliance did : Acceptance of diversity. Their purpose was non-existent in this entire journey. 4. Ysh'tola does not have a compelling reason to come to Tural, but upon learning that a different dimension could've been involved, it was a good call to brought her in midway into the plot. But she really should've been the one to step into the golden city because that was her only purpose to understand worlds of different dimension and dimension travel, and somehow the writers wrote her out of it. 5. Estinien ended up becoming the only guy whom really was on vacation. His presence was an absolute delight as a recurring side character whom has no involvement with the plot, allowing players to enjoy a respite from the long-winded MSQ.

I'd like to have new characters, but I'd also be alright with the scions being there if they were written better. And if they actually followed through on the promise of the scions being divided and competing against each other.

The fact that G'raha didn't stay back to help plan the defense of Tulliyolal pissed me off so much while playing through the MSQ. Man literally has ~100 years of experience defending a city under siege.

Graha SHOULD have been with us at the beginning tbh :((

I strongly agree with the premise, though I'd go a little further and say just about all of them didn't need to be there. Dawntrail is a missed opportunity to make space for new characters, stories, and adventures. Krile and Erenville were great parts of the story, and I think they could've even used more attention. (Estinien was also fine. He was there to be cool! It worked.) But the Scions really didn't need to be there. A new beginning with new characters, maybe as part of Krile's revival of the Students of Baldesion (+ the Warrior of Light) getting their first big expedition in Tural? That I could get into. It'd also be a great chance to vary up the different races, classes, and personalities of the NPCs we'd soon be traveling with. It'd also put the WoL in a new position as a more experienced adventurer at Krile and Wuk Lamat's less experienced side, as opposed to how they were a newbie joining Minfilia's crew of experts. The Scions feel flat because a lot of their arcs and development were completed, and it's strange to have them with us when Endwalker established them as setting off on their own paths. It's a shame that Dawntrail didn't take the chance and risk to really begin anew.

Graha is like, I want to go on an adventure! Then literally sits down Should’ve stayed home!

I love the scions and what we got in Dawntrail was beyond disapointing. The way the devs hyped them up before launch was all a lie.They did poor Krile dirty, yea she got her closure in the last couple of quests, but she went the whole expansion without any growth, she was just there for the sake of the story(hook). I feel so bad for her.

*G'raha crying and facepalming in the thumbnail* "The Endless Situation Is Getting Out Of Hand"

It's really lame that the devs are so dedicated to making supports have to make in game sense that they'll just bring in a conveniently full party size group of NPCs who have been "quickly caught up to everything that's happening" to the point it's negatively impacting portions of the story.

I really didn't see why the twins needed to be there at all. They could very much have stayed in Garlamald until the patch content where they could come and help foster relations between Tural and Eorzea. Same could be said for most of the Scions during 7.0. I really felt if they had been absent for that it could have been an opportunity to really dig in an learn about Tural a bit deeper than what we have so far and would have made a reunion with them during patch content all the better. As for Trusts, for the Duty Support version there's plenty of characters they could have pulled in as guests and just keep the Scions for the leveling part. I doubt anyone would have been upset by that even if there wasn't a logical reason for them to be in Tural yet.

Estinien absolutely was the most in character of the bunch this expansion. Shows up rarely, always kicks butt when he does, and is just out Estiniening.

Psst; the answer was none of them, not one. Add in the fact that what they actually did with them (which was painfully little, even when they tried), I would argue that the next time we saw them, was the post msq and to be there to deal with the fallout of the MSQ.

YAAAAAAAAAAY!!! Somebody besides me decided to call it the Ninth Shard! I'm so happy! 🥹😭

I disagree, the Scions DO belong, but not the main crew. At least, not at the beginning, and with a couple of exceptions: 1) We should have taken some of the lower level lesser-known scions on the journey. Characters we haven't gotten a chance to work with much like Ephemie Giphelmont, or Riol Forrest (who expressed a desire to see the New World in Endwalker). Maybe Coultenet and Hoary Boulder, but there are other little-known scions not busy with other big journeys. It would have really cemented the idea of the WoL taking on a role of being a mentor and less of an active hero. 2) Estinian being there is fine, he's doing his own thing for 80% of the story and it makes him feel like a living character with a life outside of you. 3) Krile. This was HER story and she had a legitimate reason to come. 4) Aliphinaud and Alisae should have stayed in Sharlyan and reconnected with their parents/helped organize trade with Garlemald. 5) Thancred should have stayed with Y'shtola studying possible routes to other shards as her bodyguard and and scout during dangerous expeditions. They should have come with use to Tural, then split off on their own journey like Estinien. We shouldn't see them until the last 30% of the MSQ when we need them. 6) Urianger should have been with the Lopporits on the moon helping to set things up for their integration into life on Etherys, making a more permanent stable transit system that doesn't rely on Garlemald's hell-tower, and working with the Watcher to set up a system to help disperse the Aether from Zodiark's prison in a slower steady stream to prevent an imbalance and assist him in retrofitting the prison pylons on the moon to do this.

It would’ve been cool if they used some of the background Scions that were relegated to the rising stones. Imagine making hoary boulder or the lovestruck girl and her sister major characters. That would’ve been cool to see

such a good topic to discuss. i was truly devastated when Yshtola stayed- like gurl- that's how you expand your lore why are you staying??

G’raha promised me an adventure and I want my catboi beach vacation damnit

The only Scions who weren't really used the best were the twins. Their purpose was to gain info regarding Garlemald but nothing that happens points at them gaining any info for it. Krile is there to learn about her past. Thancred and Urianger are with Koana, and we don't need to know anything beyond that. Estinien is adventuring. And G'raha and Y'shtola are the aether experts called in. Only the twins purpose really falls flat. One thing to remember is that a series is going to reuse already established characters as needed. So the inclusion of the Scions for some points makes sense. Later down the road, some of these missteps might not feel as obvious, once the patches roll in. Sorta like the 6.X patches. Also in Y'shtola defense about not wanting to explore the new shard. I think she was being rational in trying to solve the immediate problem first. As once that was taken care of, she could visit anytime. As, unlike the portals to the 13th, that is a stable portal that isn't going anywhere.

Dawntrail totally shit the bed this MSQ. Haven't been this disillusioned with something since GoT Season 8. If things don't turn around narrative-quality wise quickly, I'll probably just dip out until the next expansion comes.

I definitely found it odd Y'shtola didn't come with us to Living Memory as well. An odd choice given her character and how she was jumping at the chance to go to the 13th

As much as I adore the cutscenes with Thancred & Urianger imparting wisdom to Koana, I have to agree. I wish they were utilized more as playful rivals. Alternatively, I think it would’ve been really interesting if the twins were hired by Koana instead. In a convo with my friends, I expressed that DT would’ve been cool with the newer and/or younger scions (Krile, Graha, Twins + Estinien cameos) and the rest of the bunch join in later maybe for the world ending threat, per usual 😂

I massively disagree that just because X character didnt get a lot of screen time or character development that they shouldn't have been there. In the end it _made sense_ for all the characters to be there - Alphinaud and Alisae stated their primary purpose was to learn about Tural and its cultures, which they do alogside you, Y'shtola and Graha stay behind cos they've got shit to do, but eventually make the trip to help you out with a literal world-threat level emergency, as the Scions agreed they would. Everyone allocates their roles on either side of the portal in the last act based on who is most suited to complete each task and succeed at your shared goal - Y'stola and Alisae in particular don't _want_ to stay behind, but prioritise eliminating the threat over their own whims, as is befitting of characters that have grown through their many trials. Everyone serves their purpose to the best of their ability. I understand everyone is mad about being a supporting charcter in Wuk Lamat's story, but that is literally the entire premise laid out from the start of the expansion. You are there to help Wuk Lamat achieve her goals, the scions are there for a combination of their own reasons and to help you out, so are therefore serving as side-characters rather than the main cast. It was set up as an expansion where you, as saviour of the universe, are taking a break from being in the limelight and in my eyes it delivers on that. The writing was overall a little more bland than usual, but it wasn't terrible. I didn't particularly enjoy the way they transitioned from the first half of the plot to the second, felt a little clunky, but idk, I thought the whole thing was overall really enjoyable. If you hate Wuk Lamat then sure, you probs had a bad time, but the scions were literally fine and all made sense in their roles 🤷‍♀️

Me when they tell me the Scions split just to awkwardly glue em back half an msq later (it didn't even really matter because I was still glued to the twins though said MSQ)

Why is this guys voice so glorious

I personally just think the Scions could've been utilized a lot better in general. Urianger and Thancred should've been actually utilized as the friendly rivals they were billed as, maybe even being a boss fight together in the first dungeon instead of just creating an obstacle, along with Koana actually sticking to wanting to become the Dawnservant for longer instead of just being his sister's best buddy. Krile got pretty shafted in general considering how much foreshadowing there was with her Smash invitation and interpreting the letter and all that. She deserved more time in the spotlight, and her reunion with her parents should've gotten more focus. Alphinaud should have been offering Wuk Lamat first-hand coaching and life experience on what it is to be a new, bright-eyed, optimistic leader, and how not everything is as simple as having good intentions. He could've really shown off his growth from his Crystal Brave days and imparted some of it to Wuk as a mentor. Alisaie just plain didn't feel like herself in a lot of this expansion. She of all people is the one to hold Wuk Lamat back in the throne room as Zoraal Ja slowly walks away? Really? It could be said that she's grown from being a hot-tempered teen, but people like that side of her, and it just felt out of character in a lot of ways. The same can be said of several other moments with her too this expansion. She also would have been great in that moment in Solution 9 where they discuss levin sickness, but wasn't there for some reason. She should have mentioned potentially curing it like they did with tempering and undoing the light's influence on the sick back in the First with the Inn at Journey's Head. Westinien I personally would've been fine without but I loved his moments this expac all the same so I'd keep him in. Y'shtola baffled me with how little she was involved in the later half of the plot. Travel between the shards has been her whole thing since Shadowbringers. It just didn't make sense that she wasn't more prominent, and she would've been excessively interested in the magics and mechanisms at play with merging shards with the Source sans a rejoining. I would say much the same of G'raha that I did of Y'shtola, especially with his experience of doing much the same with the Crystal Tower going to the First as Solution 9 coming to the Source. He has excessive knowledge on the workings of similar mechanics, and also he would've been a very good person to bring up the Omikrons and how similar their philosophical quandaries are to the Endless, with the big exception being that the Endless explicitly have their souls destroyed and/ or made a part of another's, where the Omikrons don't seem to specifically dispose of souls so much as disregard them and instead focus solely on memories and cognitive data. Bonus round: Let Tutaru show up and haggle with the Pelupelu. 💰

I was honestly shocked (and not in a good way) when G'raha chose to stay behind in Sharlayan when the rest of us left for Tural. Wasn't this supposed to be our big adventure? And he chose to sit it out until the absolute last minute?

This should have been Krile's expansion and the poor girl barely got crumbs.

Should have been a new cast to really feel like a fresh start. No one really knew we were even the WoL anyways so it would be fitting to follow new faces with fresh new starting points. Scions should have just been like cameos or something.

I wouldn't have even brought Alisaie, and I love both twins.

only Krile, Raha, Urianger and Thancred needed to be there in 7.0 DT. The rest was super irrelevant because after seeing how they were used, I strongly believe these new writers either have no clues about what happened in previous expansions or completely ignore it.

You're far too kind to Krile. She should have been a worthy tetragonist, but they had her do nothing but wait her turn in the first half. Had we split away some of our Lamat chaperoning to investigate Krille's quest the balance could have been much improved. I think G'raha should have come along in lieu of the twins. His experiences as the Crystal Exarch would have been helpful for Lamat's development. And what ever happened to our promised adventure. Curb stomping the 12 together didn't really count did it?

Outside of krile, erenville and maybe graha when its time to go to the 9th shard, all other previous characters should’ve stayed out of dt entirely.

"Dawntrail did a lot of things right" Bro, what?

Probably most of this was done for trust purposes..oh you said it at the end..lol

i wanna level a new character on us ... then i remember id have to play the clusterfck that is the dawntrail msq and dismiss the idea again. i would rather go through unpruned arr again with having to do sidequest for experience

But we needed people for trust system.

Clearly the Scions belong because they take up the entire cinematic trailer. Problem is their script-time was stolen. Blame the writers. ✍️

I'm going to disagree with you a little bit, and hopefully I can convince you. I think the twins shouldve stayed home. I'll confess that i;m more than a little tired of them. I think that it would have made sense for them to stay in Garlemald to help with rebuilding -OR- take a couple years and resume their studies in Sharlayan. Y'shtola and Raha could've taken their places through the whole expansion and the twins could've gotten some growth that they desperately need. I have a sprout friend who just finished Shadowbringers, and to everyone who says "Alphie has grown up!" I present to you this snot nosed little shite who, at the end of Emets speech about how his lived for millenia, goes "I understand how you feel. I really do!" You know NOTHING, Jon Snow.

hot take 101 here i think they need to kill some of the scion or make them leave like thancred could go back in the first with Rine example that is

People are saying dawntrail is similar to storm blood.......not having played storm blood back it was much better written and made me appreciate lyse more.....Suk Lamat......no thanks I'll pass

The Ascian story is not complete as there are 6 left + Azem. And yes we are getting more of Azem's story.

Y'shtola HAS to be there for the final moments of DT for reasons you already list in the first 20 seconds of her section. Yes, she is minor here, but her presence is necessary setup for content involving shard travels, hopefully patch content delving into the study. It weird almost anyone would choose to stay behind, but for Y'shtola it makes the most sense because she wants to study the portal specifically, NOT what is on the other side.

Q: wich Scions Don't Belong In Dawntrail? A: YES. especially you, Krile!

Nah. The second half needed less Wuk Lamat and more Scions. She had no point to be there, she had a kingdom to protect. We were now facing a world ending threat. Don't spend 10 years making me love a group of characters only to turn them into fan service later on.

I disagree so hard with this. The companionship and the scions are a core part of the game for a lot of people, including me. However I agree that they should have given them bigger and more impactful roles.

Like 40 seconds in you are already wrong, they did not disband at all, only publicly they have, they split up so people think they disbanded but are still active as a group....ill never get the hate for the scions, they were pretty much perfect in this expac

'Does a lot of things right' Me: .... P-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA .... AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! ... you serious? The things wrong with it: Wuk Lamat and her lines and her bumbling her way through the trials as well as her supposed 'character growth' Bakool Ja Ja - Why was he not arrested for releasing a calamity bringing bird creature on the populace, as well as essentially kidnapping the child of the dawnservant and putting her in other types of harms way by having bandit strangers capture her? She could have been subjected to terrible things and the dawnservant just seemingly doesn't give a shit. Zoraal Ja - Yeah, his motives for war don't make sense and he contradicts himself multiple times on this. He doesn't want war to make people feel the pain of it and thus not want it themselves, and the people can clearly remember the times of war during the trials, so he doesn't need to do this to even make them remember. However, when all the chips are down, he basically goes back on this and really just wants to rule Tural and eventually the entire world. The Warrior of Light - We backed a candidate without even doing our homework on them. Just taking her at her word. Even Urianger and Thancred did their homework on Koana before backing him. Honestly I feel like we should have been backing Koana and he alone should have taken the throne, because Wuk Lamat is clearly too stupid and too naive to lead. Also, during that supposed "Honor duel" we should have jumped in anyway during both the first part of the fight, and then ESPECIALLY during the second part when he swiftcast res on himself and got back up after he was beaten. I don't care what anyone thinks, honor went out the window after he lost and then swift-ressed himself to continue fighting. But on top of that, there's the fact that THE CITY IS UNDER SIEGE AND HE'S THE STRONGEST FIGHTER ON THEIR SIDE! KILL HIM! Why is nobody using common sense!? The second half of the story and it's lack of focus on Kriles character - During time leading up to DT we were given to believe this was when Krile was going to be stepping up and into her own, and especially with the cutscene when we find the 'golden city' or at least its gate, we learn that Kriles story directly links to it and even the possibility of her being from another world. The second half of the story should have been more heavily focused on her, not the bunny boy, not Wuk Lamat. Her. Wuk Lamat ALWAYS has to steal the scene in every part she's in, and I HATED HER FOR IT! I was so sick of it that before I was even at the halfway point I was finding myself saying 'God, I can't wait for the next expansion already so I don't have to see this bitch anymore.' Oh, and what happened at the very final fight? She somehow pulls a Zenos and crashes through this barrier JUST LIKE HIM and starts throwing haymakers that, if you use a damage meter to keep track of, apparently she does MORE DAMAGE THAN 8 WARRIORS OF LIGHT... Nah. She's NOT that strong. She is at most 6 times rejoined, our character is 8 times rejoined thanks to the bahamut calamity and the teleportation somehow rejoining us with the soul of that calamity, and ardbert rejoining with us. She is in no way on the level with an ascian or the warrior of light, and I really want Zenos to come back to slap her face into the dirt like the idiot she fucking is. God... Just imagine if the Ascians had focused their efforts on subtly lessening the strength of Eorzea via information and if they'd instead used Tural for the areas they'd bring the change forth into for their calamities? They'd have been unstoppable because everyone in Tural is fucking STUPID. We solved the lizard peoples wartime troubles through BASIC AGRICULTURE. Wuk Lamat bumbled into the answer for the trial of reeds, and not even their own people remembered that the pagoda they carried was a ritual item to restore the Aether to the lands for the fields growth and even then it didn't get all of the fields. Koana figured it out and used just a single DROP of a mixture to fix a field, which he could have provided to ALL of the harvest fields. We show up to a place that is ravaged by a storm, houses destroyed and crops in ruin, and Wuk Lamats answer? "LET'S THROW A PARTYYYY!" Oh my god, I wanted to have the warrior of light slap her. And the thing is, we've seen plots involving leaders making unreasonable decisions in the past on FF14 before. Remember when the Sultana finally sought out syndicate members for help with Ala Mhigo? And she got completely schooled on why her ideas were fucking stupid and would cause not only riots in her own lands, but economic problems too, as well as make the Ala Mhigans reliant on handouts and thus weaken them? Wuk Lamat suffered from NOT having anyone tell her 'hey, your solution is fucking retarded, put some thought into this.' Every single trial. The giants that are still into conquering want to bar your way to stop a giant cataclysm bird snake? Hey, we tried the diplomatic approach, and we're on a timetable, fucking KILL THEM! That was one of the times when I was actively cheering for Zoraal Ja to do his thing when he reached for his sword. I was yelling "YES! KILL THEM! ALL THREE OF THEM! WE HAVE TO KILL THIS THING SO REMOVE THEM FROM THE PATH! THEY WANT TO KILL US ANYWAY!" Wuk Lamat speaks up "We don't draw weapons on our own people!" And I literally said "NO! DON'T LISTEN TO THAT STUPID CUNT! KILL THEM!!!"

Y'shtola belongs everywhere the Warrior of Light goes - what's a knight without a sorceress?

17:18 Thats a lie. Everybody loves Raha I’m not hearing it.

Poor Krile lost her personality in DT, she was walking exposition till one area in the last zone. :( I missed her teasing sense of humour.

THANK YOU for your take on Estinien. Im sick of people saying he was poorly used. He did the exact same thing he did in most expansions: wander around a bunch and fight shit

I kinda feel like it would have made more sense, if we just needed trust members, to even have Lyse instead of Urianger. Because she could have the benefit of "let's see what Ala Mhigo could learn from the new world". And I think her and Wuk Lamat would have had good interactions. Especially at the end vs Zoraal Ja. Loss of a sibling was her whole thing into Stormblood.

As much as I love FFXIV, Dawntrail is... weird to describe. The premise had a lot of potential, but I feel like they overdid their desire to introduce Wuk Lamat to the cast. Some of her screen time could have been given to the rest of the cast ( Krile, specially ) and the story would go more or less the same, but a few more memorable moments. In fact, Urianger and Thancred filled the mentor role we were promised a lot better because we weren't given the opportunity to give Wuk Lamat any meaningful guidance besides arguably self esteem issues. Besides, I'm torn on the "endless" premise. It felt like going through Ultima Thule "in reverse" : just destroying as opposed to bringing people hope or closure. Of course we had a handful of npcs, but we did erase whole cities. I really wish we could have guided them back to the lifestream instead or something of the sort.

I feel like Krile, G'raha, and Wuk Lamat (plus Erenville) would have been a solid workable team without spreading people/arcs too thin. I personally would have liked seeing a Scion in the process of mentoring another side character to set up future rosters. (I think Urianger and Mikoto would make a fun duo) I wish minor plotlines could be set up in places like Ishgard or Ala Mhigo by having Estinien or Alisae stay there for a bit.

I completely disagree on your opinion about Krile, yeah obviously she deserved to be there, but the way that DEVs handled her plot? Nah, they did her DIRTY, not nearly satisfactory as it should be, she had like 2min of screen time and it wasn't even a good 2min screen time, she should have WAY more space during Living Memory (as should Erenville).

I’ve been commenting about this since 6.1, but I’m sick of the Scions coming back when they FORMALLY BROKE UP. I was hoping we get chances to meet new allies and friends (more than just Zero in 6.1-5 series and just Wuk Lamat in DT). Like, can I make some new friends please?!? I want to hang out with somebody new!! 🤣🤣🤣

Erenville getting a combat job at some point would've been nice and fillled out the trusts a bit.

G'raha SHOULD have been on the boat at the beginning. The man has a LITTERAL century's worth of experience being running a 'kingdom' as he was the man in charge of EVERYTHING for Lakeland on the first shard.

Trusts are cool but they really did us all a dirty this expansion. I get Scions are loved but this was a chance to meet and bond with new characters. (I adored all the time we got to know Erenville and would have liked more time with Koana.) When they made such a big deal about us traveling, for what I assumed was at least a month or two, by boat I thought they were out of reach. Then everyone just kinna pops out of no where legit annoyed me. It killed the tension when Y'shtola and G'raha showed up because those two can solve anything (except for mechanical stuff which they throw in Cid for). And I felt like the twins were just kinna bobble heads for most of the early story.

I'm still annoyed with how just utterly butchered Dawntrail's story feels. Nothing sits right with me.

Thancred and Urianger could have been SERIOUSLY interesting. If they had actually competed at any point instead of immediately giving up, it could have added a world of interesting writting for their characters.

I personally thought that Alphinaud showed a lot of growth by NOT acting as a counselor in this expansion. He came as an observer, to learn from Tulliyolal. And he stuck to his role of observer as much as the plot would allow him to. By not falling into old habits of thinking he knew best and that his counsel was the most wise, Alphinaud showed that he had in fact grown.

There were other story elements that should have been addressed or, alluded to. The fact that we have finished Hydaelyn's story would technically mean we should no longer be covered by her protection, the Blessing of Light. I understand that the writing team would not poke at that direction any time soon for the sake of continuity, but I feel this point would raise the stakes immensely for our WoL going forward and make for great storytelling. Lastly, when the we were given the teaser trailers for DT, we were told the story would be a divisive one, pitting our Scions against each other, giving a feeling, at least for me, a Captain America: Civil War vibe. Yet nothing like this happened as it's been nothing but a friendly competition. I feel this is why the story overall was given a lukewarm reception. There were no high stakes, no risks, and no deaths (still waiting on something to happen).

I vividly remember the Gulool Ja Ja cutscene midway through the expansion and thinking to myself: _"why the hell are the twins here? Where they here all along?"_ So for me, they completely missed the mark, at least up to that point.

Glad you made this video. Many characters felt out of well, character.

I was going to be very upset if you said G'raha should have stayed. I agree that Aliphi and Y'stola didn't need to be there, or else they should have expanded their influence on the plot. In 6.1-5 and 7.0 they have us getting to know the deuteragonist and a few related side characters, but I think I'd like to see more new characters in the upcoming story. Though I definitely won't turn down getting to visit our old friends from previous expansions.

My read on how the Scions were handled in Dawntrial: -Thancred, Urianger, Estinien and Krile made sense and were used right; Krile was never gonna have the potential to showsteal as a character, she makes the most of the material she has. -Alisaie doesn't do anything, but I'm not sure what you COULD give her. -Alphinaud also doesn't do anything, but politics is his whole bag, he was grossly underused for the first half. -Y'shtola could've had prime material in the back end, this is exactly where her story has been leading, but she didn't get those scenes. -G'raha stole Y'shtola's scenes and did them worse, but everyone praises him for the gondola scene that frankly, I could've done without.

As Dawtrail is written, most of the Scions are wasted presences and shouldn't have been here, this is true. But some of them *could* have been salvaged with just some minor rewriting. Thancred and Urianger are the biggest examples of this. The way it was set up, it seemed like they were going to be opponents this expansion, competitors working against the WoL. Had the Rite trials acted more as competitions of skill and less like minor fetch quests, and Koana been pitched against Wuk Lamat more often, we could have clashed against both Urianger and Thancred more often. As it is, we only "opposed" them once, and that was in the first dungeon when Thancred caused a tunnel to collapse making us take a detour. Yay. While both Thancred and Urianger both know they can't defeat the WoL, they are also both incredibly cunning and tricky, and if they were pitched against the WoL properly, we could have seen what its like to have them making plans *against* you rather than for you. And, of course, there could also be the inevitable last ditch effort against you as they showcase their teamwork in trying to at the very least slow you down in open combat. Likewise, Alphinaud and Alisaie could have both had improved presence if the trials also tested Wuk's capacity as a ruler, rather than just being about cultural stuff. Then the twins could have used their experiences and knowledge to help teach and guide Wuk. A more substantial rewrite could have improved Y'shtola's presence, and potentially helped Graha and Estinien too (though they were both already used quite well). That being, having them form a third team for a third contestant to the throne. That would spice the competition up even more. We'd have Thancred and Urianger being sneaky and manipulative, working the other teams against each other etc, and the absolute powerhouses of Y'shtola, Graha and Estinien working as more of a force of nature against you. Y'shtola and Graha are both incredibly intelligent and powerful, and have close knowledge of the WoL's strengths and weaknesses, and thus could easily form a plan to work against the WoL. Estinien is a powerful Dragoon and loves a good fight, and would almost certainly be eager to test his mettle against the WoL, plus the man is very resourceful and would work well with the two mages. As for Graha, yeah he's a total WoL simp, sure, but I'm like 99% certain that he would fanboy over being able to test himself against the WoL just as much as he would working alongside the WoL. In fact, having the entirety of the Scion cast working against each other in different teams like this would ALSO have benifitted your own team of Alphi, Ali and Krile. They may be quite capable in their own right, but they are still the weakest of the Scion cast. WoL is definitely the powerhouse of Wuk's team. This means that scenarios could easily have been written where one of the other teams managed to spring a trap or unleash a focused attack on the WoL, rendering the WoL temporarily incapacitated or helpless, and it's up to Krile and the twins to save the day. Basically, I just think that this expansion could have EASILY been the perfect expansion to have the Scions act in a more antagonistic role *without actually becoming evil antagonists* and having their characters expanded upon in a way that can only occur through them acting in opposition to you. And it was wasted. That's probably my biggest disappointment in the expansion. While I loved Alexandria and the Sphene plot (I actually think it was a very good story, just unfortunately rushed and poorly utilised, not to mention Wuk overusage ruining everything) I kind of wish that the WHOLE 7.0 expansion was the Rite of Succession plot, more fleshed out, with the Scions acting in opposition to you on different teams.

Personally I think MOST of the scions should've stayed back in Eorzea. - The Leveilleur twins first and foremost. They've done their part in so many expansions and side-arcs it's almost sickening to me seeing them all the time. Though I like their personalities and quirks it's high time they get replaced after Endwalker. - Y'shtola, as you said, should've stayed home as well studying her initial goal of reaching the first shard as she always said she would. - Urianger and Thancred however - and BECAUSE they have been hired by Koana - had their fair share of screen time with Koana but were a missed opportunity on a real rivalry match with the WoL. I was hoping for a solo duty or something battling them. - Krile has fallen short on all ends and didn't get much meaningful screentime as she should have, except for Living Memory at least, and remained an insignificant side character that she always has been sadly. - G'Raha, as much as I love the guy, was on point with his scenes but should've stayed in Tulliyolal during Zoraal Jas attack because of his experience of defending a big city like Crystarium and not be the fanservice character that everyone asks for in the end. - And lastly Estinien. Well I couldn't agree with you more. He was there when needed and made an impact when required most in the story. Remained his stoic and badass self as the Azure Dragoon and never overstayed his welcome. He, of all characters, felt like someone who'd surprise you by swooping in, help you save the day and leave the laurels to you because he's never been a guy for big ceremony. Instead there was SO much potential for new characters to accompany the WoL for other motivations rather than belonging to the scions but with their own goals and interests which, at that time, just happen to align with that of the WoL and either split from him again or remain at his/her side or go their own way again.

Urianger: "I always wished to test myself against thee." Did you Urianger. Did you want to fight us for very definitely the first time. For sure. Definitely hadn't crossed blades with us back in Heavensward. Certainly not. Also excellent video!! I do disagree on Urianger and Thancred being unnecessary here, I don't believe that Koana would have really come around without their usually-gentle nudging.

It's amazing how few people in the West still know how the characters' presence in this game works. They're there not because of the story or any other important reason, but only because of their popularity with the fans. People annoy the developers so much because of a certain character that they're always on the screen. In the same way that other characters are hated for some stupid reason and are gradually left aside or even removed completely, as was the case with Minfilia. It's a shame that the developers give this kind of attention to the fans that ends up always interfering in a harmful and direct way in the game.

I agree!!!! I was expecting that the WHOLE thing would be us vs them. We didn't even have a battle. This whole expansion left sour taste in my mouth. Though, the last half was amazing not going to lie. Best, storyline.

Honestly, I feel like aside from Krile, none of the scions shoud've been there. This should have been a clean break from the tradition of hanging out with the group while on adventure. Instead we shoukd have the one or two most relavant amd concentrate character development time on them and the new characters of the adventure. All the time wasted on well developed scions doing nothing characterful could'e gone to Krile who desperately needed screentime to get personal development and be together with her parents.

Im not going to bother sharing my ideas because if the writers didnt think it was worth their time and effort to do it better, then I wont spend mine.

Narrator at Living Memory Castle is totally Haurchefant’s Shard.

Graha is just out cinnamon roll

Alphinaud should have been on team Koana. It would help reiterate Alphinaud's growth as he helps guide a man who walks a similar path. This also forces Allisae to be the healer if you do solo duty which shows her growth through mechanics. Finally it really ties the whole Wuk lamat warrior of light parallel as Koana would be cemented as the alphinaud parallel and keep with the theme of heritage as we have now guided a new generation

Dawntrail we were not the protagonist we where there to assist. I was happy with that but I still think it was handle incoreectly specially at the last part with Alexandria when I just wanted to shut up Wut and step in as the realm champion to really show Wut that there are times that you need to defend the realm even if you need to kill others to achieve that. The scions were handle okay they were they to help if needed it but they were no longer on the spot with a few exceptions such as Krile and our favorite dragoon. I would change the twins for G'raha and take Yshtola with us to loving memory and herritage found. Now I think that for future patches the scions and us regain our protagonist status bit by bit as we leave this spectators arc to return to be the main protagonist. And I hope that Mut finally grew up and no more "Sphene!!" But we all know she will return, and they would rule as neighbor nations.

Most of the scions definitely ahould've stayed home. But for me, the worst offender was Alphinaud. He went from a character that developed so well through Endwalker, to a bland exposition vehicle who just stated the obvious over and over again. It got super grating for me. Gra'ha, Eistinien, and Krile were the only scions that I felt really enhanced the scenes they were in. Alisae to a lesser extent, perhaps, but I think Krile could have just filled in there without missing much. Ishtola should have mattered more. It was frustrating that she didn't given the cross reflection travel angle. I hope she'll be more engaged in the patch content, especially in helping us figure out the key. Urianger and Thancred were just... Meh. I'm ambivalent there. Though if they were going to be there, I wish we had at least gone up against them and Koana in a more meaningful way before Koana dropped out.

For the most part agreed with everything until Y'shtola and G'raha. While I agree with how well or not each was used, the question you posed at the start was how well they belong there. As you pointed out, it was a huge miss not letting Y'shtola come with us to Living Memory, and frankly it's insulting to ever leave her out of anything involving travel between the shards as it's her entire goal, and she's the only Scion with a solid goal atm. G'raha meanwhile had no connection to anyone or anything going on in Tural. They did a great job relating him to the situation, but it really was nothing but flimsy justification for having the omni-role party member present for the last dungeon. Y'shtola was done dirty, but she should have been there, and hopefully will be involved with the Key going forward. G'raha was nice, but had no reason to be there.

Outside of who should have been given the spotlight, I actually think Dawntrail's problems are a little more foundational. The Character writing just isn't that good. The dialog and voice acting are both very workmen-like, it gets the job done but it's plain. I don't think that can be fixed just by shuffling the characters around. Even if Krile was the only Scion here I don't think it would matter if all her dialog was bland and all the scenes with her were boring. I suspect that the localization may have been a bit rushed, though I can't know that for sure of course. Re-watching the cut scenes in the last patch before Dawntrail I realized how much better the voice direction was than what we got in Dawntrail itself. I also think they put the most love into the last part of story, at least in regard to the character writing.

As much as I love all the Scions, it wouldn’t make a difference to the story if Alphinaud didn’t come. Y’shtola not coming to Everkeep was ooc; I don’t think she even expressed regret for not coming! This should’ve been Krile’s (and to a lesser extent Erenville’s) expansion tbh.

Think a few mentioned, but the expansion kind of missed on one point that they emphasized a bit before the release: Rivalry. I was thinking different possibilities like different ideas conflicts, bickering, fighting one another to test each other out, or heck, dare I say, CHOOSING sides rather than just staying with Wuk Lamat. I know it would of been a bit difficult, but uh... it was kind of implied that they were going to be rivals, not just friendly competition. Kind of a missed mark But yeah out of all of them, I think Y'shtola just... missed... a lot. She's the curious one, as you said, and she REALLY wants to know more about seeing the reflection, but she chose to stay behind? Huh?! I don't know. I feel like there are missed opportunities, especially since the entire Living Memory could of brought her an interesting encounter seeing as she can see the color of aether. Imagine what would of happened had she been there? It would of been something.

The Scions are part of the WoL inner circle and should be treated accordingly even if their supposed purpose is fulfilled in EW. The problem with the Scions in DT is that they were treated as cameos of themselves due to reasons only the dev team knows, they had zero interference in the story progression. The twins were just draged around like minions, Urianger and Thancred weren't really that much of adversaries as taunted by the developers, Estinien was really on vacations, Y'shtola only shown up just because she was in the trailer and G'raha was the only with bare minimum presence time. This was supposed to be Krille and Erenville's time to grow as characters but their story payoff failed spectacularly, though not because of the other Scions. I understand that the Scions could be away for a couple of expansions in order to introduce new characters or that we should interact with only a couple of them, like before ShB, but to have such beloved characters sidelined in favor of a character like Wuk Lamat was a huge mistake. The story problems of DT are all because of Wuk Lamat over-presence, she alone made the development of any other character barren and this wether the Scions were there or not. If SE wants to replace the Scions by a new group of characters (good luck with that) and Wuk Lamat is the first one, we're in for a bad start.

I agree that there are missed opportunities, but I believe that all the scions deserved a spot on the boat. Alphinaud takes the spot of support character rather than main character (Alisaie took the spot of a main character) in Dawntrail, and I think he fulfilled that role perfectly. Y'Shtola I have less of an argument for, I admit but I feel that her being here is a bit more towards her long term character growth rather than being an impactful character in DT itself. I'd put her as a passive character in DT. She needs to be there, but she doesn't have a big role to play... nor should she. Thancred and Urianger are the main ones that get me. They should be there, but I think their roles should have been expanded. Koana and his allies should have clashed with Wuk Lamat and her allies a few times. We never got that promised "Divide the scions" from the trailer, and I feel that was a missed opportunity. They deserved to be there, but their role should have been majorly expanded. Estinien is the only one that I would have marked as didn't need to be there at all (Opposite to you)... But I am absolutely glad he was. I really have no arguments for Estinien. Everything he did could have been left to another character, or left out entirely... plot wise... but he made for a fun addition to the story, and I enjoyed watching him sparring. I think Dawntrail is seriously up there as one of my favourite MMO expansions of all time.

i dont think people get dawntrail is a starting point, which is why it felt odd, its pretty much ARR. plus we have like 2yrs of patches incoming so technically the story is only like 50% complete.

The scions in general were out of place in a new arc where it was the time to be introduced to new companions (even if the scions did the casual appearance) and on the other side I personally think we got so much Wuk Lamat I grew to dislike her, we couldn't get 2 minutes of oxygen without "talk to Wuk Lamat, where is Wuk Lamat?". She is supposed to be an aspirant for the throne so let's assume she has at the very least been somewhat educated for it yet she is so insanely incompetent, naive and childlike for 2/3 of the story while the entire narrative world revolves around her and her "power of friendship and peace" gimmick, she even steps in during the last trial to take the kill for herself because we have been 5 minutes without having her on screen, can't at least wait until the cutscene. I think this juxtaposition of the scions being misused plus the excess of Wuk Lamat and her unrealistic personality for a heir to a throne weights the story down a lot. It also starts incredibly slow in the two first zones, I don't think we need to dedicate 3 or 4h to make a god damn saddle for an alpaca while Wuk Lamat does her best Hildibrand imitation because she thinks alpacas are harbingers of doom and the 2nd zone with the plantations has an insane plot contrivance of "you just needed to do the festival to fix everything but nobody but Wuk Lamat and maybe another guy knew and they preferred to just keep it to themselves until the very end while people starved"

In the end this is what the devs decided to do with the story of dawntrail. If the scions were there or not doesnt change that fact. It is what it is, lets just hope that theyll be better weiten in future patches and with better roles. We do not know what theyre planning and it may be a stepping stone. We have to wait and see.