They made me WASTE $10,000! Pt. 1 

As opposed to PEX with the better plastic and/or brass/stainless fittings. Use the expansion type fittings/connectors (Uponor/Wirsbo) and it is pretty much foolproof AND will last a half century (45 to 50 years).

There is also Kitec which is a sandwich of pex and rolled seem aluminum which has a tendency to split cause pipe failure.

@@Oxblood1987 Rolled aluminum and PEX? Sounds like one of the O2 barrier tubing used for radiant heating.

Yeah. Poly-B. Already replaced one entire house worth of that. Never want to do it again.

@@Bigrignohio This video gives a visual demonstration of the difference between PolyB and PEX. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-w9HZL82DzMc.html

No kidding. Sounded like he bought them new from them so I would be demanding they either refund me or update the firmware themselves at no cost to me if they're going to be obstinate assholes about it.

..."for not being fit for purpose" (is that a consumer law in Canada?)

@@monkeywithocd The problem is that the 10k isnt only the sum for the switches but includes the installation etc, and the chances of getting that money back are probably zero.

​@@richardlincoln886 Dunno about Canadia, but that is definitely a thing in Australia. Australian Consumer Law has a very clear section regarding products and how they need to be "fit for purpose". To the point where "fit for purpose" can include what the end user themselves define as the 'purpose'. It was a never ending issue when I worked in the RMA department at a tech store. Always arguments over the difference between a product's 'fitness for purpose' vs a customer's expectations of the product. "Oh, so you'd like to return those headphones because they don't have noise cancellation? Sorry fam, that's just a lesson in doing your research first." "bUt iT's NoT fIt fOr pUrPoSe, I wAnTeD ANC! ReEeEeE" "Sorry mate, that kind of feature is usually very prominently displayed, and there's plenty of resources to consult regarding a product's features - heck, you could have even asked one of our salesmen, and they could have told you that." "This is BS, I'm going to calle the Ombudsman!" "Righto mate, have a good day of it then :)"

@@hwarr12 Same in UK

In enterprise, the version of this is "only installers/resellers can get firmware." drives me frickin insane.

you have to subscribe to have new firmware mate

The worst thing is that this probably is just a one-man decision. Some schmuck has decided to cash out on selling their service despite the developers clearly intended for the end users to update the firmware themselves. And you cannot do anything about it, even as a part of this company. All you can do is to feel shame for idiotic decision that make you look bad. Hopefully this video will go viral, get to the company itself and change their behavior because of bad PR.

ive worked in the smart home industry in the past, zwave specifically, you would be surprised how common it is to now offer end customers with OTA files and require them to take the device back to a "certified seller" that will update the firmware for you "for free" even though you then need to pay for deinstallation and installation of the devices.... i would hazard a bet that its an industry standard in the zwave space.

@@qt31415 No, you just have to buy their hub. Their hub has direct internet access so can ping their server and possibly do a handshake. Or it's just security through obscurity. Plus like Nintendo got caught, they are probably using opensource apis/source code and not paying it forwards, while also using closed source AIP/code that they are not paying licencing on. That, or it's a normal microcontroller with a normal bit of code, but they don't want anyone even trying to copy the decide, as they got no product or service worth selling, so they hold up a curtain for the wizard to hide behind.

I mean, they bought new products. They had old firmware. I don't think buying another new one would give them a device with any newer firmware. I think Jasco's intended solution is to connect the device to their app and update it that way instead of allowing it through Home Assistant. Which is... not great.

@@dacid44 I think he meant to rip it from the other switch. The one that looks similar that wasn't a dimmer but looks identical.

@@justinepaula-robilliard Too many people don't care, don't complain, don't return, and keep buying. It's like Binding Arbitration, Class Action Waivers, Dispute NDAs, and other garbage companies are increasingly putting in their Terms of Service. They're getting away with it because we, as a society, aren't walking out when we see it. I walk out, I'm right on the edge of ditching my cell phone service entirely because it's all gone too far. I believe, that as a society, we get what we buy and we work where we shop.

Well can't they provide firmware in binary files, like every proprietory product, or if that's not the case they can provide technicians to go to there clients and update the firmware

Seems like a way for Jasco to get more money through planned obsolescence. Yikes.

I saw their Better Business report. Ooof!

Four days later and no firmware updates.

3 months later and it's available

I'm glad they managed to pull their head out of their a**. But we all know that only happened because it was Linus getting mad at them instead of a regular customer.

@@everythingpony quite literally found it back then, search better maybe?

Yea I definitely agree

Who knew getting up and changing the channel using the buttons on a TV was such a hassle

@@BrumBrumBryn thing is you'll usually want to change the channel/volume/other settings on the TV far more often than just turning lights on/off

@@rai_l 100% fuck with my TV settings 1000s of times more than I fuck with my lights.

@@BrumBrumBryn Rip to your lights if you’re messing with them as much as you flip through channels or adjust volume.

This. I thought they'd put upgrades behind a subscription model or took a leaf out of in car satnav updates and expect hundreds of £££ up front.

Still upset with Subaru on this shit. Bought a car manufactured in 2013 with maps from 2009. They wanted like five grand for a fucking map update.

@@ZeroX252 Any Subaru with Starlink or whatever is free to update if you take it to a dealer. Call SOA if your dealer charges you, charging for it is not a Subaru thing. Ive had 3 cars all updated for free.

@@nathanz7205 That was through Subaru not through my dealer. Granted this was a decade ago and Google Maps wasn't reliable because 3g cell service was still more prevalent than 4g. I yanked the abysmal head unit out and upgraded to a full dash replacement android unit and haven't looked back. FWIW the automotive industry really needs to up their game on what powers the in-vehicle dash systems, or use technology that relies on the end-users cellphone to do the heavy lifting. That 2013 Subaru head unit had an arm CPU from 2001 in it. It took several seconds for the predictive text after each keypress. It's especially insulting when that's what the "premium" audio package comes with.

Some cursory research shows that they changed their map delivery system in 2015, and the verbiage on the site they link to for map data updates would suggest that you may still have to pay depending on your model and warranty status.

or even just obsolete firmware in 2-3 years.

@@Reverend_Salem Smartphones.. I have a perfectly fine OnePlus 6t from 2018. Great battery. Runs all the apps very smooth. I love the device but guess what? It's EOL since q1 this year.

@@sporqist I also have a 6t, what does EOL mean?

@@9aronka End Of Life

@@Merlinen82 damn, so no more updates I guess?

"Here from one surgeon to another..." :D

Here's the video where he said it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-T2NsTi_43g4.html

pico is from luton and work with there home worx radio ra and caseta switches

pico’s have batteries but last a very long time, they say 10+ years

But yes lutron caseta is definitely the best consumer light switch lineup

@@ctaaaaaaa gotcha, someone probably misunderstood a representative and it telephoned into "each press generates enough power for a radio wave". I work in commercial applications so if thats the case thats gonna really suck 10 years down the road, I didn't see a way to replace a battery and those switches are pricey. It's gonna be a hell of a bill to replace all of em every 10 years

​@@jorgetello3961 Yeah, Pico use normal CR2032 just have small power requirements, so Lutron declares 10 year battery life on a single battery (and it's replaceable - there's small screw on the back that releases battery compartment). Though switches that generate own power do exist and typically have "kinetic" in their name.

You could just dump the spi/i2c chip or use jtag. You know, super easy

@@MultiKokonutz I have installed smart homes for a living and have no idea what your talking about

@@crunch9876 He's talking about different industry standard I/O methods to directly get a newer firmware version from one of the ICs in switches functioning as intended to then redeploy it to ones that aren't I do believe... which yeah... You know, super easy /s

@@RandarTheBarbarian I mean, super easy for those of us in the know, but for anyone who doesn't know how to connect it up to a firmware reader/writer, it's just about useless.

Yes to all the replies. I'm surprised the update hasn't been leaked by at least one person!

Reliability over convenience always

It doesn't have to depend on something that's eventually unsupported. That's the whole point of home assistant, you run it locally on your own device (usually a raspberry pi) and the network traffic never leaves your local network, even works without internet.

There is better way to do it. With real automation systems made for building. it's programmed by engineer(me working in industry for over 5 years) to your taste and doesn't need any connection. And lighting is not smart building it's just gimmick. Smart home integrates Air Handling systems, temperature handling systems etc to one central station. Lighting is just bonus on the end. And if your needs change after few years you just call to engineer and he/she can reprogram it for your taste aggain and aggain and aggain. No apps, internet and other bulsh*t. You even can have HMI(human machine iterfaces) anywhere in your house or your phone can act as HMI also. AND also locally. And if you really need, you can connect goggle home or another assistant to control your system by voice.

There are numerous devices that make direct control available (wall switches, wall sockets, shutter switches..)

@@petervalasik1149 thats got to be really expensive though linus has indeed spent 10k on switches alone

if they don't use encryption on it, then they are trash

The algorithm for motion detection has a good bit of fairly complex DSP signal processing in it, to avoid false positives e.g. from clouds changing the lighting of the room, lights in other rooms spilling into the room creating splotches of light, shadows of trees moving in the wind, cars on the street visible through the window and so on. But after that piece of processing you have a binary output, motion / no motion, and then you can mask it out or accept it, this part is quite trivial and usually done by a completely different chip.

The problem is not how to write good open source firmware. The problem is to write is in a small package that fits onto a lightswitch.

@@Ruhrpottpatriot My Computer Science class on microprocessors was a bitch for this exact reason. Programming something with less than 100kb of ram, is a whole other ball game, compared to something running on a traditional computer. Creating efficient code is what makes things difficult.

@@ARandom1 Exactly. Everybody and their grandma can write a nice face recognition algorithm with OpenCV, few can write the same on small IoT devices.

Supporting old devices alone would be a good thing, but they should also be able to support ‘self updating’ firmware.

I instantly got the same thought. There is no company that doesn't want their product kept up to date. And there has to be reason for this stance....

They might have thought linus wanted the source, which is a dumb assumption.

@@Flightcontrol96 then you get sued for damages to someone's house when some hacker gets in and tries to set the place on fire, or botnets someone.

@@Flightcontrol96 well as a class you can ask for far more money such that any damage to your property or working days would be covered. Since well... If your IoT device gets your isp to cut service and the cost of figuring out what went wrong... Can cost you hundreds of not thousands of dollars. And they should be required to pay that.

yeah it is bizzare- I am 30 and can't think of anything I own that I would expect to need a third part servicer as an intermediate on, and I would certaintly avoid going into such a situation

I did contract coding for a reasonably well known HVAC company a couple of decades ago. I sat in a meeting with some of their senior engineers and product folks and the subject of how to push out SW updates came up and they could not even understand that such could ever be a thing or why it would ever be desirable. As far as they were concerned the SW would get installed when the unit came off the production line and that was that. If it sat in a warehouse for a couple of years and the SW improved the units efficiency over that time or just removed a bug? They did not care. I finally got them to the point where they agreed installing firmware updates could be part of servicing like adding coolant or replacing/cleaning filters. They seemed surprised that the systems already had an RS-232 connector so techs could connect using laptops and that it would be trivial to push a firmware update over that. I'm guessing the guy who came after me had to try and get them to move to USB.

@@KenS1267 oh brother. Hopefully all their important systems don't need to talk to the internet or smartphones for any reason...right? Right?

@@doublinx2 In 2000? There were no smartphones and IOT was at best a dream.

What's the bet it's a zip file with some uncompiled scripts written in Python or something.

@@himaro101 Then someone really needs to dump it and leak it

it's the same with the car industry, at lest tesla more mixed and is both car and computer. too many companies released products then they stop supporting it after 5 years then they sell a new product instead our maytag washer can only get updates through there subscription service. it's like there trying to make there stuff smarter but there not dedicated or don't care enough to go all the way to keep them updated and instead just keep selling products

@@knightwolf3511 a subscription to fix the bugs they sold the product with. reminds me of my horrible experience with maytag 20 years ago, ended with a class action lawsuit.

The rationale of that kind of policy is a mix of good and bad and neutral but self-serving intentions. On one hand, products like this usually rely on a network of installers to make them useful to consumers. So, the company looks out for installers by requiring authentication to get access to resources like software and documentation. This ensure a revenue stream for trades workers, which is somewhat respectable, but blocks the ability for DIYers to ever do anything for themselves, which is unacceptable. OTOH, it also prevents dummies with no business holding a screwdriver from causing expensive support issues. (Assuming those dummies aren't licensed trades workers... which, unfortunately, sometimes is the case.) I do respect that trades workers deserve a living wage, and I see that a company would want to ensure users have a good experience with their products, and so would want only qualified installers to take on that work. So I can see the argument for ensuring that only qualified installers should get access to resources. But, at the same time, I feel like the end-user should have everything they need if they decide to take on that work themselves. Those two things conflict, and I think, ultimately, the best compromise is just to make resources public, and rely on a "find a recommended installer" system to help consumers (who are not DIYers) find a reputable and qualified shop to do the work.

As a smart home installer, i understand what you are saying. Yes as a home owner, we should be able to install and have access to everything for our home. And there are products that are available that give homeowners full access.. Unfortunately with the higher end systems, they do require training, and if the installers are not properly trained can absolutely ruin a home. Therefore leaving the homeowner having paid a lot of money for something that does not work as intended. Manufacturers protect their name brand and reputation from ensuring dealers are properly trained and can ensure customers receive a much better experience. Am i saying everyone is perfect, no… there can still be bad installers and I have seen many homes installed from bad techs. Unfortunately in the case with Linus’ install is he tried to use entry level lighting control that had he consulted with a professional would have been able to warn him to not go this route. The price point of going with a quality product would have been easily 10 fold. The other thing is that it is only available through dealers and not available through big box stores or on amazon.

The reality, from a software engineer's perspective, is that homeowners will simply not spend the money to have the firmware on their light switches updated. The smart home products, within mere years, will be riddled with security vulnerabilities and CVEs. They will be hackers galore. Your light switches will be running botnets for hacking groups in Russia. Your blinds will get ransomware. These companies will be embarrassed in the news by these headlines, and hopefully this will spur them into action. In my view, IoT devices should be shipped with a method for secure automatic firmware updates, as they pose a danger to the security and operation of the wider internet when they are left with glaring security vulnerabilities. This is pure greed, but it is incredibly short sighted for the whole smart home industry. It only takes a dozen high publicity cases of hacking incidents against this category of devices before people reject them outright.

Get some regular lightswitches and some esp8266 modules and put esphome on them, you can probably do what you want for a fraction of the price!

If a company closes up shop, they should be required by law to make their software or whatever open source PRECISELY because of this.

It’s a never ending endeavor. Once you get into smart home be prepared to tinker with it on at least a weekly basis. It has my life easier but first it made it much harder.

Yeah it seems smart home is only worth it if the home was built for it from the ground up

100% binary switches. Either on or off.

Simple and reliable. But lacking a lot a features. Dimming, not having to worry about leaving lights on at night or when you're away, not getting up to control lighting, being able to turn on the lights with your hands full, etc.

@@paulelderson934 True, but do you really need these features? I can say for myself that I'm fine without them. Remembering if lights are off trains mindfulness and walking to the nearest light switch gives you a few extra steps to your daily step target 😂

Not really though. This is more of an exception to the rule. You do have to research everything smart you buy but that’s not too big of a time sink. There are many standardized platforms and Home Assistant allows you to tie them all into one dashboard.

i'm the same way also security issue if your not fully paying attention

@@Drinkyoghurt It’s too big of a time sink if I have to learn about how the nuances of the systems work before I purchase the devices. There is also currently no industry standard that everyone adheres to, there are several competing standards, and the compatibility issues between the products and the standards is still too inconsistent to be user friendly. For example, I can’t just buy a “smart” device and hook it up to HomeKit, I have to first see if it supports HomeKit specifically, and if it doesn’t, I can’t purchase that device. Meanwhile, if I purchase a “dumb” device and plug it into my wall, the electricity makes it go. There’s no special electricity from a different provider I need to make it go. The buttons I push do what the device says they do. I didn’t need to delve into which voluntary communications standard it had to be compatible with before I bought it to see if it would work. Set up was half a second, I just plugged it in and it worked.

Yeah... How did he not see how stupid he sounded... and it turns out it was already out of date when he installed it🤣

I legit turned down a job at a company that was looking to create a smart ecosystem for landlords specifically because their products were SaaS. I'm not helping a company create a product that will die when the company does.

@@namAehT I sell IPs and most of the staff I do is compatible with one open source protocal or another + vendor spoecific custom stack, and leave some debugging interface that can be repurposed to pour new soul to EoL products. When you live in 3rd world countries, vendor locking is rampant else nobody will survive, so it's virtually unavoidable

Also he can adopt at anytime. Smart devices don’t require new wiring

@@crunch9876 they do if your home was built before the 80s and hasn't been rewired since. Or if you want in wall Ethernet instead of whatever shoddy wiring you get from your ISP installer

Yeah just use those 10.000$ worth of switches plus the install fee and add more solar panels, that will pay for itself way better and you do not need to be mindful with AC usage when the sun is paying for it

@@patrickshade3844 no….. his home was more recent than that so he doesn’t need new wiring….. also the date grounding was implemented I believe is 1975 his home is 20 years newer than that he has ground wire

@@crunch9876 the problem isn't ground. It's the service panels. His house would've had a 100-200amp service panel, compared to 300-400amp dual panels in modern developments. Considering Linus himself and how much tech is going to be in the house, it's necessary. Especially if the entire house was getting ripped out anyway. But, fyi, the argument wasn't about Linus. It was a general argument against a general statement.

Do they still work manually when the network is down?

Well, not all of them look like standard switches. I use (almost exclusively) the zen 30 double switch because I wand to control my ceiling fans. It's understandable, you can't have an extra control and look like a standard switch. I don't think Zooz makes a motion sensing switch though. But I like their stuff in general, tough to beat.

@@Adroit1911 No, this switch requires your local Zwave network to be working or the switch won't do anything.

@@giga-chicken yeah that's true. I don't think they do motion sensing switches either. The ones I use are the Zen34 model though. They look just like regular switches

@@bluegizmo1983 ... 😞 Might have to just stick with the smart bulbs 😐

That doesnt sound like a massive security risk at all!

That's all well and good until one of your devices needs an update to patch a security flaw that's making your entire home network vulnerable.

good luck with ur botnet

@@tjeulink unless it's connected to the internet it isn't a big one

@@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932 why would you allow any of your smart device's access to the internet?

Yeah agreed. He needs the eye contact set up from DIY Perks.

I ran into this myself. I immediately found pirated copies of the maps.

its not perfect... but it works! :)

Honestly this does not redeem them in my eyes. It’s a step in the right direction, but they ALSO need to oust whoever was stupid enough to suggest not giving firmware to customers in the first place. Because that person/those people DO NOT belong in this industry

Hopefully, the switches you have don't start developing random faults....

it's most of the none tech industry amd, evga, intel, basically all of them pushes updates companies that make fridges, washers, lightswitches, lights are a hit or miss then car manufactures are a no go but for tesla

Z-Wave is a standard that runs completely locally. The company going out of business doesn't matter since the device will continue to run. The issue here is the firmware they shipped is crap and they don't provide the new one. Other manufactures provide firmware updates or just ship a light switch without bugs.

"Active" Smart Home devices will ALWAYS work in a "dumb" way for decades, even if a new owner comes in and doesn't have a hub/home assistant. They '"just" won't be able to be used remotely (or their color temparature changed) or in group scenarios.

it's useless as long as your devices are buggy and the company doesn't want to give you the new firmware

It's also one of the few home automation solutions that doesn't require you to phone home to some weird-ass server run by a company that might go down any minute.

@@luckyowl10 Yeah, that's true about anything so what's your point?

@@luckyowl10 That has nothing to do with Home Assistant tho.

It isn't weird though, you may just be used to them so don't really care about how they feel

Haha , have fun hoping. No for real. Matter will solve some things, but as the information I've seen, zwave, ZigBee, etc will have to go through a hub just the same. Thread also uses a hub technically but its included and disguised as a border router. And companies might either abandon their old zwave, ZigBee based products and only do new thread, or update their hub or devices to support matter (or thread on each device). So a unification will be better in some ways but not on low level, and will have to go through hubs with matter as a translation layer between the hubs. Some will not change at all and continue with their existing ZigBee, zwave to not kill their existing customers through confusion or abandonment. And some will just say, that is old, we won't support that, thread is the new all new products are based on.

yes

Same thing if you ask me

I was also screaming into my screen KNX - but perhaps it's a European thing and unknown to NA.

@@anticat867 its just an European thing.. Same goes with Dali and Casambi ... They also use Z-Wave insteadt of zigbee more commonly ...

Which lutron system, i believe he’s talking about the caseta line which has a wireless bridge?

@@OrangeRAZ probably would be for either Ra2, Ra3, Homeworks or one of the other higher end home systems from Lutron

I don't think the Jasco switches have a proprietary system. They're just Z-Wave devices.

No cuz he said he has the hub

I also use Kasa and it's incredibly good. The only possible issue is it all runs over your wifi network instead of ZigBee or one of those smart home specific mech networks. Usually this isn't an issue but I can picture cases where it wouldn't be ideal

@@yedoom What I do is have 2.4GHz on ONLY for smart devices, the TP-link light switches and Google Home and whatever, and 5Ghz is for important things. I haven't noticed anything when it comes to speed or reliability. I'm super happy with KASA

You have good points, but I disagree with "Homes are where you live not investment opportunities" Houses are almost a sure thing that will be worth more when you sell it than when you bought it.

I too was expecting he'd need a proprietary Jasco Z-Wave Hub and a cloud subscription plan!

@@psyko_chewbacca only works on select energy grids

I think Thread could get there (it uses a combo of wifi and BT). The problem is every company wants end users to be stuck in their ecosystem. I really want to get into home automation but you're right there isn't a good solution as of yet.

It’s all fun and games til he gets in the ring with Marques at Creator Clash 2

Yes, but it’s only really practical for offices

There are even PoE ceiling fans

Look up how much a PoE switch costs, it makes zero sense to do that

ubiquiti has some poe office grid lights, it's really cool

Maybe but would a user need to go to such measures in the first place yk

@@Destroyer-4386 that is absolutely true, but it could be an option since there isn’t another way

@@Destroyer-4386 the other thing that I am wondering is if he used the manufactures app or program for controlling the smart home device if it would be able to update them?

First, you'd need to luck out and get a really up to date device. Second, the microcontroller(s) in these devices are almost 100% of the time read-protected which will prevent readback of the firmware on an already programmed device.