Totally. I LITERALLY have people right now that have had like 17 revisions and another artist at the same time who only took 2 revisions and loved it. You have a valid argument there... I've even had the former 3-5 revisions in, send me new vocals for a section 'cause they actually didn't like their own performance... they need a producer but are too cheap to do that
It’s all providing a service….. at least as it relates to recording, mixing, mastering, & production….. so the client interaction & payment structuring is pretty much identical across the board 🙌🏽 I do agree that writing music and creating your own art is a different thing…… and as an artist, you would be Colt’s client- where Colt is the service provider- (hence the need for structured billing/invoicing ;) Rock On 🤘🏽
After waiting for 6 months to get paid from a major label I went to their office on the Row and literally sat in the office until they brought out a check. I started discounting label projects if they paid me within 7 days. That worked!
I'll share one story...after getting burned a few times I started bouncing two versions of the master...one with random bursts of white noise added in throughout every segment of the song so that they couldn't possibly re-edit an unpaid version on their own, and a final clean production version. I had one client that wanted to come to pay, and pick up her master proofs in person. She lived two hours away. She shows up at the door and says...oh...I actually don't have any money to pay you right now, but I can send you the money within a week. I said "oh, that's fine...I'll just give you the white noise versions so that you can listen to them in the meantime until the final payment is made"....she gives me this weird look, and says....just a minute...let me check something....goes out to her brand new fully loaded dodge pickup truck and comes back with the full payment amount IN CASH!!!! But yeah...now I follow a similar "deposit, pay as you go" method too.
I am just about to enter the world of mixing as a paid service and this was the first thing I was thinking about. Just give them like a half song or white noise so they cannot run away.
I like the idea of adding white noise in segments of a song which renders it unusable until payment is made. This way the client get's to hear the quality of the mix/master. White noise is a brilliant idea.
@@belgradeboy1977Same here, I thought about doing that, or giving them a low quality MP3 of the track until they can pay for the master. I have a ways to go though, but this is all great advice.
My rule is all projects start with at least one Pre-roduction meeting or conversation. The project is outlined and the time required is estimated. I book nothing without a 50% deposit and signed production agreement clearly stating all terms. We book the time and as we work through the deposit, we reevaluate our progress and then discuss further payments. This keeps all parties focused and aware of what has been done vs how much has been spent. This has solved all of the issues I ever had to deal with before.
I also use a system similar to your deposits. I have a “signing bonus” of 10% of the total fixed costs (ie - ignoring the royalty payments if applicable). If I am producing, mixing, and mastering, then 10% of that entire fixed amount is due at signing. Then, as each stage is completed (ie - producing, mixing, mastering), then a subsequent payment is made to advance to the next step. You will not get the file without paying me. For dealing with labels, I have both an incredibly specific payment schedule and a liquidated damages clause. It is incredibly expensive for them to not pay me on time
Great video man. I give you a lot of credit for taking this topic on and being so upfront about it. Also letting the new guys know what your charging clients will help to give them the confidence to charge their clients what they feel they are worth. It’s very hard sometimes for anybody working for themselves to know what their time And skill is really worth, especially in the music business. Just try and remember you’re not just charging for the time it takes to finish the project but all the years of hard work learning and perfecting your skills. Don’t undersell yourself
I just had a client steal a mix from me by just taking the last version of the song as an mp3 and using some free online service to master it and release it without telling or paying me, despite our agreement... they will find a way to cheat if they're shitty enough a person, master or not
@@warpacademy yeah, it didn't feel good when I found out... but I've consulted with a bunch of colleagues and concluded that this is a rare instance and not to treat other artists like they're potential thieves by watermarking mixes and all that... there's a balance and fine line to walk with this, of course
Even when I do my COVERS for YT… I don’t share w/ Friends, relatives that want to see/ hear how it’s coming out. Like I said before I send them a QUICKY 1-2 Measure or Bar just to shut them up. Again I’m just doing this as an Expensive Hobby so you guys that have paying Clients just take precautions. 👍🎚🎧
This is a big part of why I gave up taking outside work and just work with friends and acquaintances now. No, I'll never get to quit my day job, but at least I'll get to do projects I enjoy, and my chances of getting paid will be right around 100%. I respect the heck out of all of you who are able to take the frustration of outside projects and make it work day to day.
Deposits are technically/legally refundable. "Retainers" don't have to be refunded. Think about how you word this. Learned this while I was in the photography biz from a national association.
Thanks for being transparant about your pricing and payment structure! Makes me feel more comfortable charging what I feel is a fair rate when so many others in my city are racing to the bottom. I've had a 50% Upfront/50% On the first session payment model for a few years after being burned, and its the best way to avoid headache clients.
Every studio I've ever worked in demanded payment for the session at the top of the day. No money, no session. Granted they we all\ pretty small 1 room studios, but it worked well. If I'm mixing at home or video editing, its 50% upfront, and balance at release of deliverables (all files). No money, no files. Revisions are billed as more time and the same way, 50% upfront, 50% at delivery... or no files.
Really cool to hear about your revisions policy. I'm currently where you were - offering unlimited mix revisions as part of my client pitch - and I know a lot of engineers struggle with this! As someone with half of the years you do in this industry, it's also very validating to hear your ballpark price figures and mix policy. Gives me hope that in another ten years I'll be at more of a self-sustaining place with my clientele, money, and caliber of work. Thanks as always for the videos!
That’s SUPER affordable! You said $500 gets you through most of the rhythm section tracking? Do you as the engineer or the Studio make any money out of that, or does that just go to the musicians?
Yo Colt ... U have touched many of us and I personally thank you! Being a self recording saxophonist & mix engineer, I've learned tons from your content. Still planning that fabric wall!!
Good process mate! Lots can change in the midst of a project and you need to protect yourself. I learned this same lesson early on. Take a deposit that must clear before any work is done. And then have the remainder of your fees due upon completion, but before you deliver the final work. You gotta be business savvy in this field. Thanks for putting this out there.
All my finals for approval have a proof voice statement in them. Simple says all rights belong to me until paid on full. Once track paid for I send the master with that audio watermark removed. My contracts are all clear per project including financial, any royalty items, etc.
When I've had not a lot of work on, I enjoy the workflow, so I've spent multiple times the number of hours required on a project so that I can look impressive and get someone's work where I think it could get to. No client cares.. they only see the result, not the effort put in. If you're going to send masters pre-payment, add a watermark or a half second of noise somewhere in the track. The hunger.. man, I've felt that so badly... I didn't want to give up on my dream of working in music in some capacity and being forced to go back to office work or something without creativity. I just die inside those types of job. So, I've accepted the lowest of the low knowing I'm worth so much more in skills and my work. Worst thing all - is accepting those jobs and THEN arguing with an artist on top when they send you junk or badly recorded stems and expect you to turn it into a masterpiece when it's just not possible. Someone I used to work with a lot, no matter what I tell her, she is convinced her stuff sounds great recorded and I just don't know what I'm doing. Shit in - Shit out - its a solid gold rule that you cannot fix under any circumstance. I think we will never work again because she thinks I'm not good - She showed me a track someone else produced for her expecting me to be impressed and I said.. uhhh, yeah, it's good, but also literally nothing you sent the mixer is in there, except for your voice, the rest is completely remade by the producer. Insane...
Watched the beginning and right as I thought, “he should charge a non refundable retainer to book him”, you mentioned a deposit. One thing to note: I was told 15 years ago or so to always get a non-refundable RETAINER to book me, not a deposit. Deposits can be, and are supposed to indicate, being refunded. However, a retainer cannot. In order to book me, folks have to have at least 30-50%, generally 50%, so that way it keeps us both accountable for the event/booking/etc. I can’t tell you how much it has helped, especially when folks cancel for any reason. Plus, if if waive the retainer, there’s still a 50% cancellation fee so I’m never going to be broke. Because as my grandpa always said, “as long as they owe me, I will never go broke.” He unfortunately had all his wealth stolen by an evil family member, but otherwise, he would have died and bestowed upon me as his trust, multi millions and assets (including 3 Rolex watches). Basically, trust no one and cover your a$$ (C.Y.A). 😊
musical artists are never people to hold in any esteem - they are some of the shiftiest if not the worst in the whole media industry I have ever worked with. And they usually have a self god complex. So payment always up front .. I'm rather harsh with payments but it's been effective, I ask for 75% of projected costs up front with a detailed road map of what they want and where they want to end up. If they are floundering at ANY of my list of questions I say get back to me when you are ready - and the deposit has to be verified / secured the day we agree to go ahead - and i always try to get the entire spectrum of people involved into my area to do initial listening of what they have and their collective feedback in one meeting . So remote 'online' jobs I don't usually do unless it's restoration audio work or some producer holding onto finished tracks with no further involvement of the group or artists. They have to hear what I'm hearing in the environment I"m in. Excellent topic thanks for sharing your experience.
Thank you, Colt! I am trying to get the biz operating in Russia these days, and with the uniqueness of location comes the myth of "Russian rates" which really is, as it turns out, just a myth. ;) I will be adapting the thoughts you said here to what I do. I usually record classical and choral sacred music, but I do EDM and soft rock on my own time, too. All the best!!
You know, people are bad. We all gotta deal with it. Glenn Fricker exposing Queensryche hurt me so much as it happens to be my favourite band of all time. But as I said, people are bad and we just gotta find a way to prevent bad things from happening to us. Also now I understand why rappers got so much money - they just don't pay for studio time 😂😂😂
Here’s how I do it. We estimate the hours required to get to point A and they pay in advance for those hours and no finished product leaves my studio. If you want to send them a demo, put a sonic watermark so it’s useless as a finish product. I do not bankroll any project. If they disappear before the hours are spent, I win. If they can’t pay more to go to B, you don’t do it. It will never be a problem again for you.
My experience is I was always working with independents, once I started working with my first big act, they recorded 2 of my songs in an album that went number 1 Billboard on release. The management/owners of the project required me the publishing of the songs on the promise of a tiny advance withing the signing of the document (plus keep working with them). They never put me the contract in front neither the promised advance of 4k. So the album was released without the contract being signed. My family and I were literally starving, rice, beans, corn tortillas, I couldn't afford $900 for rent. The day the album reached number 1, a friend called me and said "dany FUCK THEM ASSHOLES...." that was a shock. I was afraid to lose future posibilities but my family was first. Next day I called 5 majors (Warner, Sony, Universal and Fonomusic), one of them offered me 50K on the signing. The contract was 60% for me for only 4 years !!!!. Then all songs back to my publishing That was a storie I still enjoy and share with my peers.
Oh come on DUDE. I did 12k worth of work for Death Row in 2000, and never saw a dime. That's why I won't do Hip Hop/Rap/ ect. There are places where the "trade" is different here in HellLA. Which is more of the norm. But it is deposit/pay up front. You can't really make money in HellLA mixing or producing. HellLA is no more than Fiver!
Well, 10 years ago I payed a well known producer for a master job. He asked 100% payment upfront... so I sent him 800 USD coz he was such a big name. He didn't even bother to download my album and I send it to him the 2nd time after a month or so. After that he almost ghosted me... replying many weeks after... and I started to treat him with lawyers, bad online publicity... he didn't give a fuck. Eventually he payed my back the whole amount... in couple of years in small batches... 100 bucks today, 100 bucks after several months, he even sent me once 50 bucks... and so on... My 1st album ever recorder with a band and 1st experience with a big name and so disappointed.... so yeah... shit falls down.
I won’t even open the studio door and put the kettle on without 100 percent paid upfront. I learned the hard way. Serious artists will find a way to pay. Those who won’t aren’t worth working with anyway.
Yup, the worst are young artists without any humble. I did like 10-15 revisions of mix, every time they want to change something, hi-hat should sound like XY band, and kick like AB band and snare like FZ band...after all that mess my mix it was ruined and devastated, nithing sounds good and consistent and I just started to be kind of rude and push them to the wall until they said "OK, lest finish that" and paid me my money that were worth nothing compare my hours of work....but the mix was total crap and they was unhappy of course with result they pay. So they go to "profesional studio" and recorded their songs again and do mixes way worst with quality I did first time, and then publish that mixes... I was shocked how people are f***n d**b a*s. First recorded great tracks, to ruin that at the end and record again and publish that new shitty mix....what a nightmare. But I was paid after all. Of course that band does not exist any more, project died few months from day they published their songs :) Always get paid and never promes unlimited revisions. Always fight for you money from the day 1 after paid day, if you will wait then every day of delay will confirm their belief they don't need to pay because you don't call for money.
This is a bit off topic but this issue with providing a service and getting ripped off is not new. Back when I worked for a managed service provider we always had to deal with companies not paying their bills for the tech service we provided for them. One client in particular had to be cut off from support a few times until they could pay up! There are a lot of dynamics at play when it comes to business transactions so always require a deposit. Also, don't undersell yourself and be cheap. My dad did that with his carpet cleaning business and it just attracted cheap ass clients with huge messes.
very similar to my methods Deposit to book tracking/production Deposit before mix. Final payment before master goes out the door. Test tracks have white noise bursts about every 20 seconds.
Your structure seems very sound and your rates seem very fair, however I don't know what recording costs really are, but as someone who produced very big music vids in LA in the 90's ( you'd crap if you knew those budgets ha!), that price seems very fair and for the artist to now have something not only to gain listeners but I'm sure to shop in town.... Useable quality value is king.
Just let them hear it in the studio and no song until it's paid. Fcuk the deposit they be at home like a child on christmas looking forward to getting their song like a book in a shop that looks good but its plastic covered and you cant resist but buy it then you get it home and lose interest The second they have the song in their hands you'll never see them again.
Don't know your particulars but Sony has always been on point paying me. So much so that I once got a call from their financial department asking if I had received a check because I had held on to it for a week.
I have come to realize in this industry there are many many and to be honest too many flaky ass people who are emotionally unstable, untrust worthy and lack moral character. My advice is for sure have a side gig and take some time to save 25-$50k And learn how to make money day trading stable legit stocks. I am not currently making money in the industry I am leveling up my production skills after taking a 22 year Hiatus from the whole music scene. And may just decide to keep it as a hobby not sure if I want to go full throttle in such an unscrupulous industry at this stage in my life I have seen too many people burn themselves out..I no longer think it is worth it..but who knows I may through my hat back in the rat race….lol. Nice clip..thanks and take care…. C.R.U.N.C.H music.
The flat rate for mixing and mastering, including up to three revisions, sounds very straightforward. How did you land on this structure, and have you found that it effectively manages client expectations? Also, how often do you find projects exceeding the revision limit, and how is that handled? New subscriber
For labels just have two prices - charge double and then offer your normal (originally intended) price as a "pay within 4 weeks" rate - that way you get the accountants interested, all big companies are run by accountants. What about discounts for points? Or do you never expect royalties?
I charge 50% up front but let everyone know that at my rates most of my clients will pay me 100% upfront right away that makes them feel bad and 90% of my clients if not more pay me 100% right away. With that said, if they don't have the cash, I'll take 50% upfront within the first week if not, they one and then I take the other 50 in the middle of the process right before mastering and I let everyone know ahead of time you will not get a final master from me until I am paid in full. It's taking me a few years to do it this way, but everyone goes with it and I'm happy and good luck to everyone out there. That's not in Florida. Lol.
Back in the 80's we learned with rappers to get paid as we go, when they ran out of money we stopped, if they wanted more, they had to pay up front. Later though when I started working in film, I broke things down in 3 payments. One third up front, one third halfway through and one third on delivery. Now that I am doing just mixing I get paid up front. I have always found it easier if the client knows what we are doing and the time frame, give or take.
What is crazy is that most singer songwriters, bands, rappers, will run and ghost as soon as you say 1K per song. Here you are at 2K like it's normal. I agree, it is or at least should be! But damn if the artists look at 10-20K to do a record and freak out. They don't realize that it used to take like 70K minimum for label quality releases.
Great advice, and something I always wondered about. One thing I'm surprised about is how low your prices are at your level. I've always wondered what happens if you do work with one one of these artists who are on a label or indie, and the song, which you produced, played on and even mastered becomes a hit. I'm sure you get the benefit of gaining clout (assuming you get all the proper credit), but when working with certain people is there a way to somehow sign a contract where royalties can be made, or is that only with the major producers? I've heard of major producers taking a flat rate and some taking a lesser rate and more points. I dont know how this works though with producers that aren't well known. Anyhow, great video!
I run sound in film/tv. The longest it has ever taken me to get paid on projects have been clients with the most money. Harpo (Oprah’s production company) took over four months to pay me and Fox Sports took almost 6 months to pay me. Now I shift the price into rental and my loan out company’s policy is all rental equipment is paid for in full before leaving the rental house.
Happens, there's a curve to learning to manage a studio for sure. Wish I'd seen this when I started, won't learn it in school good advice bro ty. I'm also independent, an broke lol or I'd flip ya a tip. Sorry literally stuck on the side of the road atm.
Maybe I'm too honest, old fashioned but I've never and would never rip anyone off and I know it happens but it'll never be from me, it's a shifty Shiddy thing to do. I can feel your hurt from here Colt.
For a couple years, I was working with a lot of Christian artists: contemporary Christian, worship music, rap, etc. It was unbelievable the number of artists that were scammy and didn’t pay.
Yo Colt, i had the same issues bro! I was on a producing site that people get music mixed and mastered and got so many saying hey, can you send me a sample mix of what it would sound like... I said umm nope, i use all analog and i do it and get it done and move on, so i can't do that. Once i do it il do two re-mix and then move on! Heck yeah, get that deposit first! You are only worth what you think your worth, and that reflect in how much you charge! I would charge Sony interest!!!!
I now charge 60% upfront ! If the person really want your expertise, he or she won't mind and you can be sure they will pay the rest when the product is delivered. Good luck !
Wow you’re charging super low bro - i charge $100 per hour or $150 but it’s pay to play no credit so i can’t get burned (as i have many times in the past )
It’s always the rappers lmaooo Also this is why you charge labels so much for work because you always have to fight for your Damm money 😡 Good advice for people starting out to not learn the hard way… always take deposits!
I think your rates are really fair and the model is very reasonable - and really like you work mostly with independent artists - having followed you for a while now - that is definitely impressive and cool at your level!
Great video! Definitely some awesome insite. I am curious as to how someone with this kind of experience. Would have someone who has experience in the field, but has been workong basically for free. Get started getting paid for mixing and mastering, and trying to start a new career with the hindsight he has now. What kind of sites might help with sales and best help to get the engineer paid.
Sony takes almost forever to pay. It took me threatening the producer with the fact that I wouldn't leave his office until I got paid. Always demand a up front retainer for your work never deviate.
If you need a contract for the labels let me know! I have many different type... It has interest in it and all! And try get points if your going to wait on payments. Talk to artist/band on that part. They approve it the label will do it!
I'm happy to hear that i'm not the only one who spend 15 -20 hours on one project. the most tells here on youtube to mix fast in one hour and so on......great video Colt
I had no idea it costs so much these days for a single. I guess you pay for a quality result. I haven’t been in a studio since the 80’s so it’s interesting learning more about today’s challenges with running a studio
i charge 60% amount advance , otherwise i said no if they are not agreed based on situation. and pro tip start a side business because empty stomach is not good for ur family because i know how its feel when u don't have it.
Who tf is doin anything that can't do basic production?? esp these young cats... We had to run a felony scheme to get up on some gear in the early nineties.. now ya just gotta spend a lil time online to learn a few things. Shiiiiit laziness
I love your channel. But that’s still a good amount of money for unknown artist. Specially when you can take that $2000, learn your craft and invest it within your own home studio. It’s a tough career. You deserve every penny tho. Don’t get me wrong.
