Just saw a Christian friend praising God for answering the church’s prayers for rain, they had been praying for rain for weeks with no result but as soon as rain is forecasted God answered their prayers. You have to count the misses
@@everydaychristianapologeti2614 it is a reference to how people cherry pick data to show correlations between a variable and an outcome. In order to say God answered the prayers for rain you have to count the times you prayed and it rained and compare that to all the times you prayed and it didn’t rain. When this is done God is either with holding rain on purpose or it rains in nature whether humans pray or not. Any time the two line up is simple random chance.
@@everydaychristianapologeti2614 then perhaps you should clarify. The point is that prayer seems to work with the same rate of success as random chance. Do you disagree?
And they will say the nastiest thing like "have fun burning in hell, can't say you don't deserve it." And then they will end their comment with "Praying for you sweetheart. 🙏💖⛪" Like WTF.
When I was in church I used to call them on that attitude of why they seem to get so much joy out of someone going to hell if they believe what they claim to believe. Some changed, some carried on.
@MagerialPage yes! That’s why I turned away! Hypocritical, full of hatred , judgemental jerks, is all I ever see from those who follow Jesus and to me I just could not see any evidence of love from Christ. I knew it was all bullshit from an early age. Then the contradictions in the Bible are another reason PLUS why would God let so many innocent children be born so sick, why so many experience horrific lives and never have a chance . Why so many starving ? Etc etc etc
My wife and I both subscribe to your channel. I am a INTJ and my wife is INFJ. I love your personality content also. So you are well aware of how rare not only our types are but us together as a couple are . We appreciate your honesty, kindness, and seeking the truth and being open minded. I relate to everything you talked about in this video and I believe you presented it well in seeking the truth. I’m bias now but we need more INFJ and INTJ mindset thinking to change the 🌎 😁 . great video👍
Awwww!!! I'm sorry to be all in your comment business but I love your comment and subscribe as well. Love his content and agree. Raised Christian but I totally identify as a spiritual person. I just know what feels right to my soul. How I was raised does not. I'm INFJ and my boyfriend is INTJ. I looove these discussions.
@@nicolerhyne9928 Wow that’s very cool you are that personality type combination like us. I appreciate the comment about my comment and I will definitely check out the recommended person you mentioned
Infj that left christianity here as well. I have found that I'm a much better christian than most christians - without being christian. Think on it, really, really vibe on it.
That's exactly what I've been telling myself recently ahah !! Like my parents say they are Christians but I wonder if they even really listen to what is said in church, because they behave in so childish and selfish ways... And some of my friends who say they are Christians, practice their religion not from some sort of pure faith, but from basic convenience ahah. Like one friend even said "well, in case hell and paradise exist, I'd better be a Christian than an atheist". I feel more respectful and understanding about the idea of God than any Christian I know.
@@fireflythinking1290 Thiss! I have the same experience with my parents as well. I feel like christianity is more of a title for a lot of people, instead of it being a lifestyle.
Anytime my Christian friends ask me why I don't come to church, I will laugh and say what's the difference between me and you going to the church. They will say am just a moralist 😂. Then apart from being upright and conscious of other human beings right, what else does God wants.
@@fireflythinking1290 To go off on a tangent a little bit, I've had some really bad experiences with 'Christians' in church. Some people claim to be Christian, but are not. Also, too many 'wolves' have crept into the Church, as Paul of Tarsus warned. I don't call them wolves, but rather narcissists. Political and social structures are attractive to these types of people, because it enables them to have power and authority over others, as well as feeding their false sense of superiority. Better to get rid of these structures altogether in my view. Look at the 'underground' churches in China and Iran, they are much more dynamic and welcoming it seems than any formal church anywhere, and they have little or no structure (because they have to). And because of persecution in these and other places, you tend to get only genuine people attending. From my own experience, I'd ask you 'not to throw the baby out with the bath water', but rather separate the message from some of the messengers. I hope I haven't offended you.
I really appreciate this video. I watched to the end. The thing a lot of people say to me, not even necessarily as an argument but as a kind of reason as to why I ended up leaving is that I just didn't do enough. Didn't pray enough or study the bible enough or fast enough... It's ironic because it was precisely in the process of studying more of the bible and the history of christianity that I realised that the things I believed just didn't hold up like I thought they would.
@@tembybee thank you. Same to you. I think the most difficult struggle is the desire to save the people I love from the hell they have created for themselves here due to their current values and beliefs...
@@dengholm I am not what your evidence is. Could you give an example of a book giving evidences for your God belief? Is it The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel?
Watched til the end! Love seeing other people's deconstruction stories and embracing more logical approaches to these kinds of societal infrastructures.
I feel the same about the Bible. I could at least try to entertain the concept of a god, or a creator much more easily then I can believe in a book written by men, re written a hundred times, and reinterpreted many many times in order to fit the values of society at the time. Also, if you watch documentaries about the origins and history of the Bible and other religious texts you'll learn there is a lot that has been changed and even been omitted from original scrolls. So its a book made by men telling us what They think we need to hear and then say its God's word. That just really bothers me. Love this discussion. Thank you for making this! 👏❤😊
//a book written by men, re written a hundred times in order to fit the values of society at the time// Firstly -- No, it wasn't. The Scriptures we have today are what was originally written, and we know this by the massive number of manuscripts, hand-written copies (something like over 9,000 of them, either full copies or "fragments" which can be anything from missing the last paragraph to having only the first or middle paragraph). The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew and then later translated to Greek for the non-Hebrew speaking Jews at the time, but the Hebrew Scriptures continued to be painstakingly copied and checked and both the Hebrew and Greek have been translated directly into whatever language such as Latin, German, English, Japanese, etc. The Scriptures of the New Testament were written in Greek and translated directly from there into whatever language, including Latin, German, English, Japanese, etc. The "values of society" are a total laugh. You didn't spend too much time thinking before you said that one ... nor really anything you've said.
@@stegokitty Your 'unchanged' Bible says that they will know you by your love. When Christians like you and I behave and speak as if we "understand all mysteries and knowledge [...] but have not love, [we] are nothing" (1 Cor. 13). The points you are making, even if they were true, are absolute trash so long as you continue to speak like this. The comment you made might be the greatest counter-apologetic argument made in this whole comment section. That being said... I agree that the Bible has maintained a shocking level of compliance to it's original form given all available resources. It's a literary phenomenon by most accounts and deserves some respect from every world-view because of that (as far as I can tell). But our prints of it are not as perfect and unchanged as stegokitty claims. Entire stories, like the 'cast the first stone' story in John, aren't present in our earliest copies of the book. But I am a protestant nonetheless, and I think there is good reason to agree. Most of the serious theologians I know are very active in knowing what was added after the original manuscript and acknowledging that those additions have little canonical authority accordingly. As far as the rest of scripture, the question is if the original manuscripts were actually inspired by God without human intervention in the meanings portrayed. That, of course, is a much more complex question and deserves assessment like what a court might do to evidence or testimony before accepting it as valuable in a ruling. I'm not going to get into all the reasons why I think it's valid evidence just because I'm getting tired of typing. But please know that at least some of us really are looking into these differences, are assessing the evidence as thoroughly as we know how, and finding good reason to believe it. As imperfect as any process of reasoning must be, it's the best I can do.
@@stegokitty God should have done a better job at expressing his word. How about an update or 2. It has been 2000 years. Why reveal it at a time when it can't be verified? People aren't asking for a lot.
This video and the previous one have been a MASSIVE help to me. I used to be one of those unquestioning Christians until my beliefs, each one were challenged in a big way. Everything you say makes perfect sense to me, you articulate everything so well in a way that makes me envious. I honestly thank you for making these videos as they were very timely for me. Thank You Clay.
I, like you, am willing to discuss any subject, at any time without judgement. I am completely open to all ideas from others and over my life I have found that these discussions are grist for my mental mill. It is rare that I meet others that have the same willingness. If we ever met in person, we might converse for days on end and both come out the other end richer for it. BTW, I just made it to the end. Loved it.
Oh my goodness! These are exactly the same things I asked in Catholic school when I was young...when the Sisters couldn't give any tangible information, I was told to take it on faith. I was then labeled as blasphemous and invited to attend school somewhere else, lol. I spent several years researching history and the basic premise of a lot of religious beliefs and cultures. While I do not argue with most people on their own beliefs(with just probing questions), I consider myself to be Universal. Great video!
The Argument from Usefulness is precisely the damaging and destructive belief that theists and religions cling too. Theists construct their ' ' tables ' ' using legs of assurance, confidence, and righteousness, not realising these legs also contain dogmatism, prejudice, intolerance, zealotry, hatred and suspicion. So for theists it is Useful, but not for the rest of Humanity.
I get frustrated when I put comments on a video that is about my leaving or debunking Christianity, only to have people reply as though Jesus is a real person that I still believe in.
Nobody is blaming you for not finding faith in you. I do not anyway. You've made your point. Do not be sad. Live your life and let the other live their lives. Simple
I listened all the way through and you are an extremely, highly intelligent person. I’m not going to try and convince you that Christianity is true or that Jesus is who he said he was. I do have a piece of advice, please don’t stop searching for the answers to your questions, you might be the person that God uses to prove that Christianity is correct. Your young and your life is not over and I think your smart enough to do just that. That’s it except I love you and I’m praying for you! I am 64 and I have settled in my heart that Jesus is who he said he was and that he’s coming back to this earth. I have come to the conclusion it’s not my place to convince anyone about him but to pray for people because he is the only one who can convince a person to believe.
Hi Clay, Thank you for reading and liking a comment I made on your video to why you left Christianity. I really identify with you! I recently had a conversation with my sister in law. She is a great woman but when I was chatting with her about where I am in life with a religion, she seemed very hurt as what I was saying was extremely hurtful. Instead of a conversation all I got was biblical quotes. It's strange when it comes to anyone of any faith who are really into their belief system, will not budge. I like you are open to the truth and I still will listen to others with an open mind but I can not dismiss facts that are plainly there for all to see. How people can just turn a blind eye to these things really makes me scratch my head. For example all the incoherence the Bible holds is there in the open. All one needs to do to see is to read the words plainly. What upsets me is how this book is twisted to fit one's objective. It's funny the Bible says not to do this thing, yet again it happens all the time.
See an excerpt (below) from a favorite book of mine that provides a wonderful insight to the Abrahamic religion of Christianity. It demonstrates how such mysterious thick dusty old tomes (Old Testament, New Testament, Quran, Book of Mormon) filled with mythology and falsehoods, were manufactured by men (solely) with the goal of *men controlling men.* *God was created in the image of men.* The concept of original sin -- that all men women and children of innocence will be stained with original sin into perpetuity -- was part of the *guilt and fear strategy of Abrahamic religion!* The threat and fear of eternal damnation! As the Bible goes: A needy bumbling celestial dictator (God) created an imperfect young inexperienced uneducated curious naked primordial ape-human couple Adam and Eve. They were given life solely to worship him (Ray: "Apparently this Being likes to "git 'em young, treat 'em rough, tell 'em nuthin'."). But Adam and Eve's curiosity angered him, and so he vindictively decided to punish them and ALL of their offspring, all of mankind into perpetuity … until the end of the Earth! *_So poor Adam and Eve (and us, today!) were in actuality, victims(!!) of this psychotic 'all loving' Being._* But as academic evolutionary biologist, Jerry A. Coyne, demonstrates, *science shows Adam and Eve never existed as a primordial couple.* Please see, “Faith versus Fact: Why Religion and Science Are Incompatible” (2015) by Jerry A. Coyne. 'Adam and Eve' is a tale too far out for any nutty comic book's storyline. But it is the basis and modus operandi across Abrahamic religion: original sin, heritable guilt and unbridled fear and threat. Just add to these absurdities -- that *salvation is only brokered via the arrogant corrupt ecclesial class.* So so sad that this is the foundational concept of Abrahamic religion! Western society has been a victim of this toxic storytelling and gaslighting! Excerpt: *The Church is a business* selling an invisible product -- everlasting life in an invisible sky kingdom that is only available after death. *_Christianity business model:_* *Create the problem: original sin* *Create the product: salvation* *Create the solution: Jesus* *Create the advertisement: the Bible* *Create the carrot and the stick: heaven and hell* *Create the middlemen: the (corrupt) clergy who demand tithing, obedience, worship, and who extort the emotional energy of a lifetime under guilt and FEAR.* No need for a return refund counter because no one will over come back from the dead to complain that the product wasn't delivered upon! (Adapted from John D Espinoza, 'The Biblical God Does Not Exist,' 2013) I too am a former Catholic, now a happy non-theist, freed from the shackles of Abrahamic religion, who holds that science and technology (applied science) offer the most benefit and hope to mankind. Secular humanism, empathetic reciprocity, and respect for the ecosphere excite me and drive me, along with the beauty and awe of the cosmos and Nature. Hopefully, we can work together in peace and tolerance on this Earth (a tiny tiny speck in a 93 billion light-year wide universe!) and enjoy our lives, as for each of us, this is the *only life* we have. A most beautiful concept and realization: we are ALL brothers and sisters, ALL life on Earth is, as we are genetically related to each other on the evolutionary 'Tree of Life,' since life started on this planet emergently ("abiogenesis") 4.5 billion years ago! "There is life before death, not after death."
Hi clay, I watched to the end. I understand your thoughts. Rooting for you to get a breakthrough, a way in. It could be helpful to consider the parental relationship you were born into and how that formed your identity regarding the nature of marriage etc... What value you took from that into your own adulthood. Just a suggestion.
Watched it to the end! 🎉 I really appreciate this information! As an INTP, I see a lot of people that believe for reasons that I myself couldn’t rest on. I’m the kind of guy that loves playing devil’s advocate. My Ne actually allows me to hold/explore multiple concepts as reality, simultaneously. I don’t really have “beliefs” as much as I have posible realities existing in the same quantum mental state, and I constantly make predictions as to how things would play out in this scenario in these “realities” and I’ve continuously found the data to be in the favor of one, and not the others. Despite my willingness to play devil’s advocate, and making sure that I understand the other person’s perspective well enough to explain it back to them, I haven’t found anyone that has been willing to do the same with my perspective. They’re too busy trying uphold their own. The people that I just can’t stand are the people that turn into personal enemies of a particular religion (each one has them) and try to actually twist everything to fit their agenda. I can tell that your aim is nothing like that, and that you are simply looking for logic. You have my respect!
Hi Clay, I watched til the end! I have most of those thoughts from this video and I have most of the same thoughts that you shared in your video about why you left Christianity and have been watching others videos similar to those. Thanks a lot for sharing🙂
I only recently found your channel so I'm coming in very late on the discussion. I haven't been a Christian for 50 years and agree with most all you are saying, However, I do very much defend spiritual experiences because I've had so many myself and see these supernatural experiences as perfectly natural. I just don't see any reason to connect them to religion. I think to be whole and balanced we have to embrace the objective and the subjective, the masculine and the feminine. My definition of God is totally different than any religious definition and does connect well with science. And I do still like the supposed teachings of Jesus as they make so much holistic sense in that they teach us how to treat each other. I don't buy the whole salvation from hell thing but believe if we follow the teachings, we could save ourselves and create loving communities. I've totally rebuilt my table legs and feel very peaceful about them and not having to connect them to any religion. I definitely believe in consciousness evolution. Thanks for doing these videos. I'm also really enjoying your INFJ videos and find them more valuable than the others I had been watching.
I watched to the end - fellow deconvert. If you do struggle with leaving Christianity in any way, feel free to join recovering ex Christians on Facebook or any other group. There's support out there if you need it. Thanks for sharing your journey.
52:00 The opposite is also true. A few of my friends talked to me a lot less after I revealed I was Christian. I don't like this hatred between alignments whether it's politics or religion.
I have always found it very fascinating how we humans perceive things and experiences so differently. And at the end of the day, that's really what it's about. That's why there are so many different religions. That's why people perceive the same religion differently. The human mind truly is extremely complex. That's one of the reason I am not religious.
Hi Clay, I wanted to let you know that this video was extremely helpful for me. I'm in the process right now of trying to quantify what I believe and see if there's any validity still to the Christian doctrine I was raised on. Like you broke down in this video, the arguments in favor of Christianity don't seem to work and I'm consistently finding problems with those arguments. If it ultimately comes down to just having faith that does not inherently tell you that you have the truth since many cultures and religions believe they have the truth as well. So I think there's a defaulting to the familiar, the comfortable, and just clinging to it and expecting everyone else to cling to it similarly. The problem I have is that many Christians use the Bible to justify many things that can cause mental and physical harm to real people (LGBTQ+ for instance) and so there's a serious issue if you choose to discriminate or treat other people as "living in sin" over something they can't control, when the system of beliefs that justifies that is on shaky ground.
The number of young people leaving all religions in North America is snowballing, and that’s great. What we need is more 1 deconverted people to tell their stories in depth and, 2 have it told calmly and with respect . Well done fellow Canuck.
Study the difference between the soul, the spirit and the body. Generally but also personally. We are complex beings. Everything you say revolves around understanding the difference between the the three parts.
There is nothing to ‘study’ because there is no evidence that the soul even exists. There are thoughts and opinions, but currently I can’t find any reason to believe the soul is different than our physical brains.
Hi Clay ! Do you still believe in God, a supreme being ? The last sermon at my christian church left me in tears, brutal anxiety, madness and sadness. Told my beautiful man of my life I quit all religion stuff for good Today. Was still crying Today and that sermon was last Sunday...Imagine !
If your definition of belief is taking something that you don't know and then acting like it's true anyway, then no I definitely don't believe in a supreme being. In fact, if that is the definition of belief, I would question why any sane person would want to do that unless they were being threatened to do it (which most religious people are I guess).
I agree so much with you, I'd like to kiss your on the forehead ahah !! I wish I could meet more people in everyday life that really think about things, that are trying to find the truth, not just what satisfies their beliefs
Hi Clay. Not only did I watch all the video, I read all the comments (numbered 186 at the time). It was all very interesting and a lot of intelligent stuff going on in here!
I m an atheist and I’ve already worked out some of this stuff but you explain it much more coherently than I ever could. It does worry me that so many people are indoctrinated into a belief system from birth and are afraid to question it. I believe the world would be a much better place if people did question their faith and took the time to educate themselves properly , I’m not totally against religion per se but it can cause a lot of misery, wars and bigotry mainly because it has been corrupted by those in power. The early Christ followers that you talk about sound quite appealing to me and theywould be horrified if they could see what has happened!
Also, a very logical and sound approach towards the path of atheism. Your use of analogies was of great brilliance, in which manifests in convincing arguments. Our religious and spiritual experiences are stemmed from all the intricate neural activities, such as the transference of electrons going from dendrite to axion within the brain.
I watched to the end ;) Thanks for sharing your personal story of going through these interactions with religious folks of all kinds of believes and realizing how they are all suffering from the same lack of rational behind their faith. I have heard many atheist youtubers stating that there are only this handful of old arguments that apologists keeps using, but (and I am aware that this is super ironic given some points you made in this very video) hearing this first hand experience of somebody going through this for the first time, makes it more tangible Take care!
You are doing more good than you could possibly know. I've been clean\sober for over 40 years and a lot of what you are saying here is duplicated in 12-Step programs.
I am jw currently, this is breathtaking argument points 👌 I am forced to be a bit open minded when it comes to faith this days. I am learning and learning and listening.
@@gavinr5576 Someone is bound to disagree with me and that's fine. There are some 'beliefs' and mystical concepts in Buddhism but by and large it is much less dogmatic than Abrahamic religions. Some even say Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion since you're not believing in a God and it's more about cleaning your own mind and deal with suffering properly rather than aiming to go to heaven. Some Buddhist teachers even admit that belief in reincarnation is optional and you can benefit from Buddhism by simply trying it and experiencing the benefits for yourself. Pretty much the opposite of 'pray and God may or may not listen to you, but you should still believe in him'. That's all I'm saying.
I watched to the end. Wish I could talk to you. Very thought provoking and so much that resonates with me but I do wish I could ask you a few questions. I watched both videos and very glad I did! Are you still answering emails or are you sick of that at this point? Thank you!
Allah is the same God from the Old Testament, but there is an important discrepancy. Christians believe that Issac was the son of Abraham who was spared from sacrifice and Muslims believe that it was Ishmael. Muslims celebrate Eid Al Adha to thank God for sparing the favored son of Abraham - Ishmael. I believe that this is the reason for religious war and it breaks my heart. We're talking about a child who was almost burned to death as a sacrifice to "God."
According to the Bible, Jesus performed amazing Miricles all the time and people were amazed. Today, we see Pentecostal preachers who are bitten over and over again by snakes because the Bible says they will be able to handle them and not get harmed
we were ignorant of many things yesterday we are ignorant of many things today we will be ignorant of many things tomorrow but it doesn't mean that we can't have a plausible hypothesis regarding the things which are beyond us.
I checked out the last video and this one now. These are good that you! I do believe in the Christian God Jesus.. but I wanted to say thank you for pointing out some questions and points in you videos, it's great! Also thank you for addressing things in the last video and now without being rude or mean and also addressing things I believe other people (myself included) question!
I prayed that God moved Mt. Everest in your backyard and not hurt anyone in the process! =) But seriously great video I have been deconstructing my faith as well and this relates a lot!
I watched to the very end. I am still a christian by choice. Found the believe in my teenage years for my own. I can't believe that there is nothing there.but i also have plenty of doubts. And no matter how hard i reached out to Jesus, who is told to want a personal relationship with me, I never got something, not even a feeling, out of it.. It seems I chose to believe further because i love the things Jesus tought. And if there is a God, I want him to be like Jesus. Thanks for your videos...
Ignorance is bliss came to mind while you described people following a particular religion & they are now “happier “. I’m not labeling anyone as an ignorant person ... just that their argument is not logical .
🌬💨 " NAMSTAE " 🙏🏾 . YES a way of the human Collective should be able to come together and discuss these fallaciez ⛩ without anger. We should try to approach this subject with understanding and love in our heartz.💚 ThankYou Clay for opening up such AN diverse subject matter. 👏🏾👏🏾let's have more. discussionz. 🥸 LOVE 🇺🇸💐🇨🇦☮
The teachings of Christ are fundamental. Whether you agree or disagree with how modern "Christians" deal with life is not really relevant here. A pianist can mutilate a great Rachmaninoff piece, but I wonder if someone might stop being a fan of Rachmaninoff because someone didn't know how to play him? I wonder how many people canceled their gym membership because of all of the unfit people in the gym? Treating people correctly is a great thing. And that was the premise of Christ's message. If you don't believe in Christians, that is perfectly reasonable! And I think most ACTUAL Christians would actually agree with you.
Most of my prayers come trough. There is one law in the universe. God made it. It works for believers and unbelievers. Gravity works.. You need exercise How to pray. It works trough imaginations. I got healed before I believed. My children needs their own revelation of Jesus to be able to follow Him in truth
I do not discus all those points because I can't make you believe and I don't want that in the first place. You realy need a revelation of Jesus, otherwise it is impossible to have a real faith. But.....My journey was simular to yours. I asked myself all the same questions and brought up the same arguments. I was looking for freedom and thruth for many years. Was married to a moslim and was spiritual and did do reiki. Because I was overthinking again and again.... my search was turning from the mind to the heart. Also because I was healed when a christian prayed for me. I really did want to find THE God... or source...it didn't came from my own mind anymore because I still could not figure it out either with my own logic. That was the moment when I saw Jesus in front of me. I was not mentaly ill. At that moment I was not a follower of Jesus . I had a nice job at a school. I was not on drugs or what so ever. I realy felt this 'liquid' love and peace and saw Jesus with my own eyes. That's why i choose christianity. And because of the Love of Jesus to die for us on the cross so that we are forgiven of sin and live for ever with Him in the Kingdom of heaven. Which we on earth learn how to live it out for real. Miracles and signs etc.. It's the Grace above the law that is so loving about Jesus. Other religions don't have that message of Love that way... The supernatural is real. Now I learn to put my faith in action. When I pray for the sick they heal. It is an learning proces how the law of the universe works. It works trough imaginations. Most christians do not know how their faith works. They are passive waiting on God. But God provided everything we need 2000 years ago through Jesus ... . Christians need to work their faith out and show the glory of God. I can go on and on... . Eternity is long. Your soul is precious to find peace is so important. When you change lives from earth to eternity you have to be sure it is well with your soul. Because after death your spirit is consious the same way as here in our bodily excistence. I bless you and hope you find your answers and real peace. Grts from the netherlands
Never mind those people they are horrible and they do not know our creator I was started off Catholic, hung out in the Baptist, then the BME. So sad , a pathetic bunch of people. Our Creator is not what they tell us.
There are more educated than you than believe in God You just have a lack of understanding of the Bible The problem is that you were never Christian your heart has been hardened I as a Christian love you and I pray for you that Our Savior will touch your soul God bless you please just think for a minute please God bless you
Dear Clay - thank you for being brave enough to put it all out on the table. > I’ve had similar doubts & experiences… And I felt a little bit scared to even PERMIT these thoughts & ideas in my head.. That in not too long ago past, my women sisters were tortured & killed. > Looking at history, I see how Henry the VIii’s desire to have a male heir, caused several queens to go to the chopping block! > Because the church refused divorce ! And ironically - the baby girl Elizabeth became the next royal leader of ENGLAND … > “GOD “ moves in mysterious ways. LoL 🤗🤗😂😀
Hello I’ve used to listens your videos without post a comment This video is reasonning in me. I was a muslim and I was confronted to the same illogical arguments from muslims (some people in my family). It’s difficult to talk about their biliefs in front of them because we’re attacking their way to live for years. A lot reacts emotionnaly and they view us as bad people, even if we are kind. Thank you for all your videos it is really helpful (Srry for my bad english i’m not an english speaker)
Your english is actually very good. You're a brave person! It's not easy to be different from your family, and to see the religion from the outside. I went through that too.
@Blood Orchird I have noticed a pattern, those who read the Quran and also the Bible noties all illogical arguments themselves and start doubting. The rest are not reading that much mostly listening to their preacher and what he sherry picks from the book, hes arguments always make sense of course, hes mission is not to make you think for yourself but to submit.
I could tell that English is your second language. But don't worry too much about it. Your English is very good. It was easy to understand what you wrote.
I'm finding that too many people are too afraid to say, "I don't know" these days and often get uncomfortable and jumpy when anyone else says it to them as an answer.
Thank you for this monologue. I just discovered your channel recently. I gave up Christianity myself at the age of 61. That was difficult. Many of your points resonate with me, and were part of why I lost my faith. My question to you is, why do you think the need for religious belief is so pervasive throughout all of known history? My theory is that mankind created religion to help him deal with unknowns.
@@thomassears1432 there's a tonne of information you can find about why we tend to believe, and it's not just humans either... Elephants worship the moon and have rituals surrounding it, dolphins and other animals have these experiences as well. If you look into it from an evolutionary view, we tend to give agency to things that don't have agency which helps us to survive. 2 people hear the bush rustling, 1 thinks it's the wind and 1 thinks it's a lion. If it's a lion, the 1 who thought it was the wind dies, is it's the wind, they both survive. Being skeptical doesn't always pay off. Essentially evolution rewards believing in things that don't exist because sometimes they do.
I spent over ten years in the Pentecostal church. Spoke in tongues and everything. I was convinced it was god speaking through me. Many years later after I’d left the church I went to a sound bath and meditation 🧘🏾♀️ session at a yoga studio. Deep in the meditation I began to experience the same sensations I experienced in church and I spoke in tongues. It was then I realised it wasn’t an in dwelling of the Holy Spirit but probably more of a biochemical reaction to the extreme emotions that came up from both of those experiences. I could be wrong but I seriously doubt those tongues I was speaking were the tongues of angels. Great video. Keep them coming.
@yestofuture.byethost5.c0m80I have a question about that. So God gave them tongues at that time to talk to people of other languages. There are missionaries today that go to people that don’t speak their language. Why then don’t they speak in tongues instead of trying to learn their language and studying their language with the goal of translating bibles in their language? It seems like they could just skip the step of learning another language and just speak in tongues.
All religions are similar. You can see it like a drug which is kind of having least harm to yourself or others around you. Religion is a glue by which the clans was supposed to stay together. It creates an identity just like how patriotism does.
Did you record yourself? If u were really speaking in a foreign language we can use the internet to translate. But everytime that's been tested it reveals u are just speaking nonsense. 😂
The hardest thing for me has been how my family has really abandoned me because of my loss of religion. They just look at me as irredeemable and a "lost cause". The last time I talked to my mother she screamed at me "I THINK YOURE GOING TO HELL!!!" with tears in her eyes... The worst part is, I really WANTED to believe, but I found it to be impossible. I've always just been honest about what's actually going on in my mind, and the Christian community has always punished me for it. I struggle with letting go of a lot of hatred of Christianity and Christians.... I'm getting a lot better and it's my Christian friends who allow me to forgive my family and move on.
I'm so sorry to hear about your experiences. The toxicity in the Christian community can be terrible. I grew up in a Christian community and my family has dealt with a lot of toxic church people, but the only thing that is keeping me Christian is my personal relationship with Jesus.
You make complete sense Clay! I started my self-thinking process probably 45 years ago and now I am 61 years old. Before the Internet, you really couldn’t talk to people about this. I’m glad you’re doing it and I commend you! I used to ask my dad about all these things that didn’t make sense in the Bible and he would always reference the Bible itself and tell me that it was the infallible word of God. One day he got upset and asked me if I had read the Bible from the cover to cover. I said no. He said then do it before you have any authority to question it. I read it from cover to cover and a left me with more questions than answers! So right now, it’s just tough to really express all this stuff with my wife and my daughter because I don’t want to destroy their image of me or of God. With the pandemic, we have not really attended church more than twice in almost 2 years. I’ve been a musician in church for 45 straight years and I always second-guess the whole thing in my mind but kept moving forward because I was born into being a Pentecostal Protestant. During these two years though, I discovered that I’m just as happy if not happier not attending church and meeting beautiful people who are not religious that are more helpful to me than my so-called brothers and sisters in the Lord. I’m so tired of all the clichés and crediting God for everything even if it’s by chance that things happen.I’m definitely at a cross roads but not sure what’s next. I tried to start talking to my wife but I could sense she was shutting down and so I immediately stopped and told her I respected her adverseness to hear me out. Please advise.
My advice is to keep quite about where you’re at in your spiritual beliefs unless your wife ask you or begins a conversation about spiritual matters, then and only then be true to yourself and proclaim your beliefs with also saying spiritual beliefs are personal and we’re all individuals even though you’re married.
Oh gosh, where to begin and where to end. As an INFJ, I have built a library full, with volumes and volumes of thought catalogs in these subjects. I have had experiences and insights, developed theories, tested them, come back with more questions; better questions. Contemplating and ruminating on and on with these big questions. I went on this search 25 years ago and never returned, lol. As an INFJ, I think we are prone to be truth seekers in a way, and explorer's of some very deep rabbit holes. I find a lot, if not most people never get that deep. Never really question to the extent I do, or have to arrive at a logical conclusion in order to accept a belief as true. In the end I just don't have the time or patience to engage with those people any longer. It is a waste of my time and energy. What I do now, sometimes, particularly if it is someone that I care about, who I think is being hurt or hurting others by their own beliefs in some way, is I try to plant small seeds or mental "time bombs " that may grow within someone at a later date when they are ready to explore that subject further, or when a personal experience may bring a certain issue to the forefront, to be dealt with. My hope is that thier ability to question or explore these ideas for themselves can be nurtured slowly. I have found some success with this method.
Good comment Curiosity: In 100 or 200 years, assuming you are over as an earthly human before then, why would it matter if you wasted a few hundred hours of your time?
In trying to be rational and accept people as they are, I've decided it's typically fruitless to engage in such debate. However, as a person of faith, I would argue that the idea that logic dictates the non existence of God is fallacious. All logic tells us is that we don't know the answer, which is of course already known. All we know is that we don't know. I choose to believe that I cannot with my human understanding alone prove or disprove God's existence and I see no harm in living my own truth and letting others live theirs.
Ive got great news! Our creator has a gift for us. The power to overcome death! The one and only begotten of the father his Son Jesus the Christ has conquered death for us! And freely offers us that power! That way through truth and light to spend eternity with him and the Father of all Creation and love. So, all we have to do is just quit wandering around aimlessly and just follow in Jesus's footsteps exactly the way he laid out for us and then we win. Then we will be given the power over death and we will be reconciled back with our Creator, back with our heavenly Father, back into the family of God for eternity. Thats the best news ever uh??
My take on why Christians get "so mean and nasty" has something to do with what Christianity has become. It's supposed to be based on the teachings of Jesus....but has slowly evloved (devolved?) to a point where his teachings are difficult to ascertain among all of the added (b.s.?) that has basically distorted his teaching. I often think it's possible that, in an effort to use Christianity as a tool for social control...it was, shall we say, "modified"...maybe even with the best of intentions....but as usually happens when we resort to manipulation, there is always a price to pay eventually....even if the short-term benefits "seem to" justify the means. Once Christianity started with the "believe or go to hell" message (using fear as a motivating factor) it pulled in many many people....but for the wrong reasons. I don't call myself a Christian, personally, but I've never heard a single teaching which came from Jesus himself that I didn't resonate with. I don't like to limit my experience by choosing any particular religion...I believe they all have very cool ideas to offer, and that "Truth" with a capitol T cannot be contained or claimed by any one group of mere mortals. I fall more into the "Believe nothing - Entertain possibilities" school of thought. I mean, 1. some things cannot be proven nor disproven, so it makes no sense to waste time/energy attempting to convince anyone else of any particular religious belief....2. We're all here on our own personal journeys and were given the capacities for both personal spiritual experience and also for sorting things out logically, and because we've been naturally endowed with both these capacities I feel we're meant to use them "both" and to do the best we can to continually strive to find a place of integration between them. Personally, I feel it's just "too easy" to take a pre-packaged belief system and be done with it, but I can imagine that may be exactly what some people need, so I don't judge, in fact, I would wholeheartedly encourage anyone to move toward what feels right for them at any given stage in their life. One last thought regarding your comment "personal experience isn't as reliable as people want it to be": I would say that all of those people are "telling the truth"....They're telling the truth of their own experience. But that truth can never be taken as "objective truth" or "the one and only truth" that applies to everyone on earth. . It can never be taken by others as a reason to take on that same "belief"....but that doesn't mean their experience wasn't a profound and "real" step on their own path to ultimate Truth . Maybe it's up to each of us to find our own path to Truth...and maybe the paths to that Truth are as variable as individuals themselves? oh...and one "LAST last thought" :)) I'm a real proponent of "evidence" wherever it can be used, which is basically in things related to objective physical reality. I understand that any given account of someone else's spiritual experience taken by itself, and without the context of prior experience etc of the person who had that experience, naturally makes it impossible to truly "grasp" what that person experienced. I think these types of experiences are so personal that trying to convey them to others is next to impossible. I guess what I'm getting at is to say that some things that are "real" or "true" will never come with "evidence" and this is where the idea of "faith" comes in. Not "faith" as imposed on us by fear...or upbringing....or religious dogma....but rather "faith" based on our own searching & experience...and that closing ourselves off completely to anything that doesn't come with objective evidence can close us off from half of who we are...the spirtual part of ourselves...which, I think could be an unfortunate over-correction for having had to pull away from previous beliefs that may have been formed by default through upbringing, fear or religious dogma, etc... Put another way.....Is it possible that there's a spiritual dimension that is intrinsic to who we are that exists regardless of how many different "religions" exist....or how distorted any on of them may have become?
Applauding your delivery. Your open-minded discussions. Your ability to recognize toxic people and frame their attacks so it’s not hurtful to you and remain insightful. Since I last wrote you my story, I have been journaling and embracing gratefulness for the tiniest bit to rewire my brain from my toxic Christian family with abusive benefits. It was 5 months ago. What also resonated with me from your last talk was that you were open to someone providing (paraphrasing) substantial reasoning to the existence of God. I failed to mention that same desire at that time because I was drowning in my pain; that if some wise person could unravel the mythology and provide something concrete to the existence of God and to explain why this FatherGod, if existed, would allow his people to suffer atrocities by the hands of all walks of life. I would reevaluate my decision to dismiss this God and it’s toxicity. I so appreciated you reading my story. Thank you. You have a gift of soulful insight, maturity and kindness. Even the sound of your voice is comforting. Thank you for providing us with your journey. When you stated that many Christians were attacking in their comment, again paraphrasing. As you know historically Christians in the guise of nuns and priests, and missionaries and crusaders killed in the name of Jesus and God. Killed and kidnapped indigenous children all over the world. Killed gays and women that knew how to heal through herbs and were considered witches. Christianity has a brutal history. Outside my family -churches I attended as a single parent to follow the instructions to bring up your children in the Christian church were judgmental and unwelcoming. It was not just one Protestant church there were many. It was ok for my husband to be abusive, it was not ok for be to leave the abuser. A Baptist minister took my husbands side regardless of my account of abuse including my ex hitting my abdomen when I was 8 months pregnant and giving me two black eyes. Crazy people Crazy God. Take care be safe. Much appreciation!
I always have rebooting info that I say or write swirling in my thoughts. When I wrote about my toxic Christian family, I realized that their behavior was not influenced by them identifying as Christians. I speculate that my father chose church because he was a preachers son and it was automatic pilot to continue. Sundays dinners were awful because my father were rant after every service. One topic that came up frequently was directed at some of men that didn’t fight overseas in wwwll yet they received higher titles than him. Their names were assholes. The home was not a calm safe place for peace and gratitude. My mother, raised catholic converted to my fathers choice. Called the Catholic Church a cult. She also didn’t have those strong ties to religion, the church was simply social to her. I search for truth in my life because their was duplicity and fear tactics used as their parenting methods. Besides abuse. I saw sincerely loving parents who were also sincere about their christian beliefs and always wished they were my parents. I also so non christian loving parents that I also wished were my parents. My truth is there are toxic people who should never be parents or should never have female children. My four brothers that were my fathers biological sons, adored him as they grew into adults. I’m moving away from feeling cheated being born a female. If I was one of his sons, I don’t know if I would have my qualities that I embrace now. I still would have loved to have punched my dad in the face when he would bully me and accuse me for a couple of hours each week. I fantasize that I stood up to him. I fantasize that I stood up to my mother, who was also cruel and cut ties when I left home at 18 to live with my older 5th brother, who was not my fathers biological son. Truthfully I wish the cruelest cancer surviving brother died from a more dangerous cancer than my kind brother who died of a cancer with 85% success rate. But I can’t rewrite my life. I can strive to be grateful and kind to others even if it’s just a smile. I can work on boundaries and refuse toxic people in my life. I can not live a lie and say God bless you all, because I don’t believe in the Christian God. I can say I wish you all well. I don’t want what I write or say to attack someone else’s belief. That is never my intent. If it sounds that way, I don’t mean it to sound that way. I share my story and believe everyone should be able to choose what brings them peace. I do wish prayer was authentic and there was a God who heard these prayers of healing, guidance, and even spoke back. I also wish there was something out there that was bigger than me that truly loved mankind and performed healings. Removed this pandemic, stopped wars and changed cruel people into kind people. Changed haters into compassionate people. Kept children safe. Thank you.
I'm way older than you(67) but our logic is the same. It is so comforting to know that there are others who think and reason like I do. It took me years to let go of the fear. I was afraid of both burning in hell and being completely ostracized by Christian family and friends.
In 28:38 you asked a question which reminded me of the Samarian woman at the well with Jesus. I had highlighted it because it was an a-ha moment. After she left in awe and excitement( Jesus forgave her) she spoke to the towns people about HER experience and the Bible said many believed however, towards the end the story it says what the group told the woman. I'll paraphrase: we did not believe because you said so but because we experienced it ourselves.. I found that Intriguing because they would have remainder skeptics had they not witnessed Jesus in the flesh doing the works. So my question to self and others is why do you believe? Do you think there's a possibility that you might have been influenced by someone's euphoria and you wanted to have that as well? I feel that many churches do well in creating euphoric environments.
RE: Prayer -- "If any two or more of you agree on anything, it shall be done by my father in heaven." I've been in a room of several hundred Christians all praying for a miracle of healing. Did it happen? Nope. One of the reasons I often refer to the bible as "the book of lies" How many families have had someone get sick or injured and all gathered together in a room and prayed for someone. And nothing happened. Or what happened was the opposite of what they were praying for. "Well that was god's will..." Well, if that was god's will, why were you trying to change it in the first place? Learning that prayer does NOT work was part of the deconstruction of my faith.
Damn, it feels really weird that this video resonates so well with me. Its as if someone else is voicing out whats inside my head. Its just beautifully put. Thanks for the videos!
Absolutely it’s time people stand up and question even the strongest and most in stone written authorities. And holy books which have many things in them every intelligent person should at least wonder about and get sceptical. Guess that’s because people want to believe no matter what of Christianity or Human Design or Buddhism or Mediumship or whatever. That think they found their path and that’s easier. It’s easier then doubting and to have different perspectives on all those things.
Great video, Clay. I watched until the very end. I wish I was as articulate as you when trying to make my points. Unfortunately I'm not, so I usually just keep my thoughts to myself.
As an INFJ, I too have walked this path. I love having the discussions, but I sometimes think that those who believe unquestioningly, do not have the cognitive skills to understand that this is what they are doing (Dunning Krueger). These people resent being called not smart because it feels like a value judgement. Maybe it’s a personality type thing? I try not to waste my time discussing religion with “true believers” because of this. I would much rather live and let live, sometimes planting seeds of questions that I hope they may follow. Directly questioning others on their firmly held beliefs tends to make them double down which I suspect is what has happened to you. I hate being attacked verbally. I enjoy hearing about your journey.
Having come from Christianity, I can explain the "why". The entire reason for being a Christian is for your soul to be "saved" from an eternity in hell. They'll tell you that it's about being godly, but I found out later that fearing hell isn't godly at all.
I watched both videos to the end and the things you actually said have always been true for me which is why I always will be a sceptic but I do genuinely love discussing religion with the right kind of people but if it turns into a sermon or an attempt to conversion I am turned off since they are never going to convince me to convert to whatever faith they are arguing for. A fellow INFJ.
The estimate of the number of past religions is closer to 100,000 and there are up to 4000+ major and minor religions, sects, and denominations extant in the world. Many religions come and go, some last but a few days. There are probably three thousand different gods worshipped TODAY, including the motorcycle god of the John Frum Cargo Cult of modern Papua New Guinea. Christianity developed syncretically from monotheistic Judaism which itself morphed from various local polytheistic pagan religions of the Levant. Christianity is "monotheistic," wait ... no THREE Gods -- the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit .. so that makes it polytheistic, especially with the dozens of saints (just like the pagan Romans had "gods for everything!"). Wait, ONE God -- so now, I'm totally confused .... Nonetheless, one must say that with so so many disparate, contradictory, discordant, and even violent warring factions, and all of them CERTAIN that their religion and theirs ALONE is the one true religion, it is eminently logical to conclude that THEY ARE ALL WRONG. Humans are very subject to "hyperactive human agency" where as an ancient evolutionary survival feature, it paid to "imagine" the presence of danger rather than risk leaping forward. “The human psyche is prone to innate biases that prevent us from being rational. Social scientists have identified over a dozen issues that lead us astray and cause us to make serious errors in judgment" ("The Biblical God Doesn't Exist." John Espinoza, 2013). Today I witnessed an example of religionist "confirmation bias" and "post-purchase rationalization" when The Weather Channel showed a Nashville man whose house was totally flooded out (again, twice in 10 years!) who said, "I was blessed that we all made it!!" Ray: Why didn't God "bless" the man to save his house?! A man so religious and fervent? An example of irrational thinking, and bias. Please read "The Illusion of God's Presence: the Biological Origins of Spiritual Longings" by John C Wathey (2016) Certain mind-altering drugs act as "entheogens," that mimic a spiritual experience (Peter Watson, 2014). Independent of drugs, this FEELING can happen with certain strong stressors: marked physiological stress, near death, loss of job, bad break up, family death, catastrophe. They represent "personal revelation" (e.g. a white steed flew Muhammad to heaven) and are irreproducible. There is evidence that the indoctrination and brainwashing (FORCED Catholic school, yeshiva, madrassa, Sunday school, etc.) of young religionists can result in "hard-wiring" of young dendritic connections. This is done to young people when their neuropsychiatric systems are most vulnerable. Please look up Christian "theodicies." They are faux-logical rationalities used by Abrahamic religionists to explain the unexplainable. E.g. "It's a mystery," or "God is testing us," or "God made Evil so we would know what good is," etc. The best logical fit, the last theodicy is, "There is no God," which is always relegated to a non-sequitur. Christianity, for example, DID have positive effects (charity, care of sick and poor, happiness, etc.) by forming an orderly moral fabric that provided meaning and purpose for human life, back when life was brutish, nasty and short, and when nights were long, dark and scary. Today, with the benefit of the 500 years of the Scientific Revolution, the scientific method, and empiricism and reason we know Abrahamic religion is nevertheless totally false. False certainty. False claims only (e.g. the Bible), with no evidence. Science WORKS, Abrahamic religion does NOT. Science: what IS. Abrahamic religion: What OUGHT to be. There is a scientific study that documents MORE anxiety in Abrahamic religionists at time of death. They are very scared of being judged and punished. There are two blinded randomized studies in major medical journals showing no effect (or negative effect!) of intercessory prayer for hospitalized heart patients. Prayer (Wathey, 2016) represents recrudescence of the infantile mother-infant relationship and represents crying to mother. Also, prayer represents an anxious child looking over their shoulder to make sure mommy is still there. Also, it's postulated (by Freud) that prayer represents a version on the obsessive-compulsive disorder spectrum where the person wishes to restore order. Prayer, however, may have a positive effect (in the praying person only) as a form of mindfulness. Yes, scripture states that you have to BELIEVE FIRST before you get faith or benefit from it (Hebrews 11:6, NIV). Entirely illogical. Blind obedience. Ray: "A cult of bullies." Speaking of bullies (!), from my reading, I can recount how Christianity is a cult. Now THAT is revealing!! A Christ cult, a blood sacrifice cult, a sadomasochist cult, a cannibalism cult, a revenge cult, a cult of sexual repression, a slavery cult, etc.,(Ray: "Maybe later"). I note that in the past few days there were at least two young smart women on MBTI RU-vid who practically gushed over Christianity and "God," the Biblical God who blamed Eve, a woman, for original sin and then damned all humanity because of her "mistake" (curiosity!). The Bible is rife with misogyny and maltreatment of women as chattel. Please read the story of Lot, the death angels, and Lot's poor virgin daughters(!); read what God did to his wife(!). Even today, in Catholicism, women are rejected in the ecclesial class. Or, look at the way women are treated today under Islamic law. Also, the story of "the Immaculate Conception" where according to the Bible, no man's penis entered virgin Mary. Instead an invisible "Y" chromosome somehow materialized in Mary to give forth a male child. Since the days of magical thinking are over, one wonders how in actuality Mary was inseminated (by a MAN!). Henceforward, was the history of sexual repression in the world -- that sex is a "sin." Ray: "No dirty deeds for THIS one -- Mary -- God's mother(!)." In modern times of medical science, we know that sex is normal and healthy for body and mind. One of Ray's intriguing INFJ theories is that the unfortunate sexual repression (cult) of Abrahamic religion has resulted in a pent up aggression in males who frustrated and anxious, unleash war on each other, rather than making love. Sad. Blame it all on women! How Axial Age, chauvinistic, patriarchal, sexist and misogynist. The Jewish Bible (the Old Testament), and the Christian Bible (the New Testament) were written by dozens of anonymous or nom de plume ancient unsophisticated, pre-Science, back-country desert-dweller Bronze Age fishermen, musicians, various prophets, tax men, herders, physicians, wise men, desert warriors, etc., with NO divine inspiration. The Book of Mormon and the Koran were written by claimants (Smith, Muhammad) of personal (unwitnessed) revelation. Correct. Our morals are cultural and complex and derive chiefly and originally from ingrained evolutionary "moral intuition," dating to more ancient pagan civilizations of Egypt, China, Persia, etc. They are also evidenced in "proto-moral" form in fellow primates, because it paid to not kill each other and survive in cooperation ("Conscience: The Origins of Moral Intuition," Patricia S. Churchland, 2018). Even today, we see morals and (ethics) are dynamic, and not immutable as seen by Abrahamic religionists. We hope for PROGRESS, that is, better tolerance of "other" -- tolerance of alternate sexual preferences, femaleness, equality of opportunity and race, respect of non-human sentient creatures, etc. We use this ingrained moral intuition to see that many Abrahamic tenets are outdated, inequitable, selfish, mean, unfair, etc. They are outdated by hundreds of years, even millennia (the Jewish Bible was written up to four to six centuries BCE), and are no longer applicable to modern egalitarian societies!! *The single absolute heinous concept of Abrahamic religion I call out forcefully* is the *utter absurdity of forgiveness outside of the law and courts(!!)* by imagining a "Cop in the Sky," i.e. "God," an "all-loving" one -- remember he is the One who committed psychotic global ecocide of The Great Flood, and who heartlessly incinerated innocent women and children, flowers, guppies, and butterflies all, burning them alive(!!), at Sodom and Gomorrah. This Being could see you murder someone today, have you "confess" this massively evil sin against humanity to a "priest" (a dressed up man behind the curtains with NO special powers of any kind), and "forgive" you completely after you've rattled off your run-of-the-mill five 'Our Father's, five 'Hail Mary's,' and five 'Glory Be's.' And if you died tomorrow, you will be seated right next to "the Lord," in the eternal bliss of heaven. *Utterly and cruelly absurd and outrightly dangerous!* There is NO evidence of GOD, no Satan, no demons, no ghosts, no spirits, no heaven, no hell, no soul, no afterlife. Says Ray, a former Catholic and now an 100% certain non-theist, "I am hopeful that others shackled by the mind-control of Abrahamic religion, will learn *The Truth,* and begin to think for THEMSELVES and above all be FREE." A hope that we can live together in peace and tolerance (religion will persist for quite some time -- dismayingly in uncertain times, Abrahamic religion is yet burgeoning forth in the countries and places and American states that also score the worst on the UN Human Development index) with secular humanism and empathetic reciprocity and respect for the ecosphere. Abrahamic religionists: "The burden of proof is on the believer." I'm waiting (please, please do not quote from dusty old tomes written 2500 years ago). But Ray does get to quote the Bible! My top two: Matthew 10:34 "Jesus doesn't bring peace, he brings a sword." Isaiah 45:7 "God admits he's the source of the world's evil." All we are, are Us. Evolution ... cosmological and biological, is god. Hey, Clay ... great work. Courage.
the reason why i believe YHWH/yeshuah haMashiach, is because i didn,t choose him. he choose me. not of my own. no. of him, thats all. what i do know is that even allthough we all had similair spiritual expierences they are not all EXACTLY the same and do not come all from the same god. so how do i know from what god it is and what the cause of that expierence is?. well when it is aligned to YHWH nature. and also i don,t use drugs that trigers those experiences. and yes. they are actually wired into our brains. YHWH did not create us without mind comunications.
Ugh. That pastor you mentioned at 15:00 or so...also the reason why I do not want to spend time with many Christians. Anyway, hey Clay! I did watch the full video and honestly, I agree with almost just about everything you said. I remember when I first got saved, I was trying my best to "save everyone" from Hell. And over time as I became more familiar with other faiths and people who did not share mine, I grew more perspective and I released a lot of things I used to vehemently use as arguments. Now I see many Christians make these arguments and I shake my head at it cause it makes them look so bad. I don't even really identify with the title "Christian" anymore due to this. Rather as a "Jesus-follower." Christian holds so many implications that I just do not want to be associated with anymore. But as a "Jesus-follower" for me, I just make it clear that whatever I can see and verify to the best of my ability that Jesus taught and spoke of, I am with that. The faith of Christianity all hinges upon Him anyway. So for me, it has been things like first making sure Jesus actually lived, and then if He actually was crucified, WHY He was crucified (which I have found to be cause He claimed to be The Messiah and Son of God). And then Him resurrecting, which is the biggest struggle, but so many witnesses saw Him after He died according to documents, and seeing how The Apostles died for this cause when they could have just declined ever having seen Him after the crucifixion, I feel like that might mean something? Though I can understand how that even is still not "proof." Just "Ti reasoning" for it to hold itself up. I am curious however to what you think about Jesus' life and what it meant? I know that you said there is no way to verify He said what The Bible claims He said, but would The Four Gospels being 4 different accounts of the same story from different angles not be valid for something? And I still can't get over how those same people decided to sacrifice themselves for that cause if they did not actually see Jesus after He died. And then Paul's experiences too. Unless somehow all of these figures did not exist? Meh, anyway, yeah! I am with you. Sure, I still believe in the faith, but I certainly like to make sure I have good reason and not be passive-aggressive nor arrogant with what I think I know. Thanks for even taking the time to not only make this video, but the last one you made, and then reading this comment. Love your content, and will be keeping up.
I made a comment but it got deleted when I edited to share a video, at least that's what I think happened. With Jesus, there are alternate theme makings and hypotheses that account for the world as we know it given its existence. What I'm saying is one picks a theme and a hypothesis for a narrative woven to be accepted. Prior to a historical narrative is the reality those events occured in with what is possible, likely and the frequency of occurrence. For every perspective there's a model of complete reality you're in to perceive and think from. I doubt Clay thinks much of Jesus. He grants that experiences are there or possible but has a heuristic where he thinks alternates may account for it instead of the experience being what it is in the Christian interpretive scheme. It's a bias of habitation, like getting used to clothes you're wearing without being distracted by the sensation. This keeps prejudices and expectations hidden from us. I say more in my comment to his video, which you're free to look for. I appreciate your comment as it's where I personally drew the line to choose my reality commitment. Lastly check out Paulogia's response to the questions you posed. It hits on what I'm saying about narratives. Cheers. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ecGCVgyxs4o.html Also a debate ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vJGRgxkzrjA.html
You may want to check out the "Jews for Judaism" channel... but also you may not. I have taken the time to research many of the things they have said in explanation for the majority of the questions you have asked in your comment & they have been verifiable. The only problem is, once you know the truth about christianity, you will have to choose how you wish to respond to it.
@@heatherm5148 that's an interesting channel. I've watched many of their videos and gained perspective on things I thought were obvious. Good recommendation.
Another exceptional video Clay! You provide the same logical ideologies my philosophy professor presented. At the end of the day religion is based off explaining the unknown, it allows people to feel better about the things in which they/we as a race have not yet discovered answers for. If it makes a person feel better so be it, but that doesn't make it true/right. Also I laughed hystericaly at the "flavor of God" phrase you keep using, might have to use that one myself lol.
Clay, this is an honest question to understand what you're experiencing. Do you feel more at peace after pulling away from your previous faith or is there a different type of nagging uncertainty in the life you've chosen now? What moral compass do you follow if there is no God?? Also, what is the info of the metro church you spoke of in a video. I have just today became acquainted with your channel and this is my 2nd video. Thanks for sharing your deconstruction story.
You said the bible condoned slavery. Why didn't God think ahead since in this day and age we see how bad slavery is. I've alway wondered why the christian church was segregated in the 50s and 60s like everything else. Why didn't the christians be an example to every one else and say this is wrong. I hope that made since. I just started listening and agree so much. I grew up going to church.
I think that you receive a lot of hate and attacks from ppl throughout life because you are right. ppl don't like right ppl. it is intimidating for big majority of ppl. I know your kind mate, keep it up
I watched to the end. I was a Christian until about age 18. I'm now an atheist and read a lot of Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins. I agreed with all your observations. Good video!
I find that logic and reasoning vs faith is important to me as well. Ignorance is not bliss for me...perhaps that's a strong INFJ trait. I would rather not waste countless hours on activities based on a false pretense and spend that precious time exploring the real world(s) around us. That's a life well spent (to me).
@@sojourneroftheland I enjoy the supernatural world-for example, the Lord of the Rings trilogy is excellent. I just don't pray to it, count on it to extend my life, or waste time pondering what *could be* in a world that exists outside of reality. By definition, we'll never be able to determine it exists. Any "proof" that it does is logically incoherent. I'm okay with others believing their supernatural world exists. I only object when people use their belief of the supernatural to justify their conviction for society to operate in specific ways.
Hi, I heard and watched your two videos starting with why you gave up with Christianity. I agree 100 percent with all you say. It is easy for me to do so because I wasn't brought up in any one faith. My father was a Liberal Hindu who despised many of their belief systems and customs. He sort of believed in God but not any organised religion. He specifically said that he didn't mind if someone said a prayer in his funeral but definitely did not not want his funeral to be presided over by a "priest" of any religion!y mother's father was a mosley technically a direct descendant from the prophet. He had two wives. One mosley and the other Christian. My mother was the Christian ones daughter! So you see I genuinely have an open mind and am not prejudiced against one of the 3 religions that I have been associated with. I think religion gives people a sense of belonging which is an important part of their identity. In some ways I miss that belonging which is why I think why most people stick to what they have even though deep down they have some serious misgivings Not having a label does give on freedom and allows us to genuinely search. Bart Ehrman is very good. You can see him on RU-vid. He is a very knowledgeable bible scholar who was a evangelical Christian and now an atheist and agnostic. He explains very well how you can be both! I believe that Eastern philosophy probably has better answers compared to the abrahamic religions .I am told to read " An autobiography of a yogi" which is said to be very good. I haven't yet done so. I think you are right when you talk about neurotransmitters making us feel and perceive things. We have these transmitters built-,in to our system and spiritualism may just help to release some which in turn give us our experiences and feelings I would like to watch more of your videos. May be you could start a movement that would grow to give those of us sceptics a sense of belonging. We are all in search of our tribe!
Due to being in this pandemic and being home more than ever Ive began to deconstruct my own beliefs. And I got in an argument with some of my Christian friends about the morality of hell and my own cousin called me Satan. Which Im not going to lie it hurt tremendously. Especially being raised to absolutely hate Satan the origin of all evil. And I get called that just for bringing up an argument. Which goes to show how brainwashed he truly is.
