This Character Doesn't Suck #1 - Little Mac - Super Smash Bros. for Wii U 

Burning Night Let's make it happen!

Burning Night Not the Greninja one ...

So basically what Mew2King did for Mewtwo in Melee?

ScourJful Yes, exactly

ScourJful Mew2King never mained Mewtwo. A better example would be aMSa, a yoshi main from Japan, who nearly beat Mew2King at Evo 2013. It was his 2nd tournament ever, after getting 4th at a local. (Also, if someone did this, I hope their name would be Doc Louis)

Benjamin McEachrane Not just his skill, maybe your skill has to do with it,

Well let's see if you can see my lil mac my guy

□

Bison pause on that

you are sooo right i main kirby i have a friend who mains him and its almost impossible to approach him without getting shield breaked or bodied

Classix he is like a human we cannot Mario nor can he

Nathaniel Grizzle ...What?

Classix He's like a real boxer, with the exception of the ko punch. No boxer irl can hit you 1000ft into the air.

I didn't know boxers could double jump...

David Eloiza everyone has to have a double jump though. It's super smash bros!

He recovers like a bag of bricks, too lol (I love playing Little Mac and I’m so happy his recovery is better in Smash Ultimate)

GroundPoundable I find Little Mac to be ridiculously fun. Intimidating enemies with KO punch, then hitting them with 2 jabs and moving right into the KO punch. It always works. Always.

Ryner Lute Down tilt into KO Punch is guaranteed at any percent I believe.

Not at high percents, some characters get popped high enough to DI away.

Ryner Lute At that point, you might as well just finish them off with a Smash attack then. The D-tilt has very little knockback, so if you packed on enough damage that they're popping up higher than Mac himself, you might as well just finish them off.

Well, obviously some characters have moves that let them break out of combos, and some characters can even airdodge immediately after. But yeah, Mac can just power through any threats with smash attacks.

***** Good point, I was struggling to think of a character than does well against Sheik but Rosa does cover those characters.

***** To be fair Sheik can beat Rosalina too. It really depends on the players in that matchup.

What are you talking about? Villager is the perfect POCKET main for Mac. Kappa

***** Rosa does poorly vs. Sheik because of the amount of pressure that Sheik can exert. It's probably Rosa's worst matchup.

twightlight3 Nah but Rosalina can just set up walls that can stop Sheik in her tracks. Also Sheik is very light and can easily be K.O.ed when Luma is in the mix. Also though I do believe Sheik beats Rosalina a bit too. Dabuz's results against the top Sheiks at Apex makes it hard to believe that.

Best counter would be to streak win using Mac.

Sarokuthix Help him get better. Little mac is a great starting character for new players which is why he plays him. I mained Little Mac at first when the game came out before switching to Ganondorf and finally to Meta Knight(secondary, however, remains him and pac-man). Tear down his character (pun intended) so he stops being an asshole and you can help him get better.

Herodreamer The thing is, the dude is like a damned brick wall. We've tried (myself and three other friends) to give him some tips and he just gets annoyed at us and tells us to let him play the game his own way. I have my own way of letting him know. Each time he plays Mac, I go Meta Knight or Mario because Meta Knight can chase him off-stage for early kills, and Mario can cape him off the stage and use F.L.U.D.D. to kill him as well. Still doesn't work for him. He continues to make the same mistakes over and over again and I continue to punish him for it. Honestly man, I think there's no getting it through to him.

Sarokuthix change yr profile pic.its gey

Sarokuthix damn bro, i see now. If you keep punishing his dashes, will he learn? maybe over time? I think time works the best since one gets used to seeing how the game works, when I first started playing i couldnt keep up with dodging, ppl shielding, etc. it was too fast for me. plusi had this nasty habit of dash attacking with MK which almost always led to punishes. My cousin noticed that a lot, until i naturally developed mixups. Plus I rolled to dodge everything getting behind my opponent. Thats probabaly why I was so good with LM at first, given that bad habit and him having th e fasttest roll in the game. but as 4 ur friend only time will tell

SHADOW999710 How about you learn to spell before giving other people commands? Herodreamer I punish him at every point. He misses a KO punch, he gets a Falcon Punch right back. He dash attacks shield, I throw him off and spike him. He doesn't even just do this to me either. He does it against everyone he plays against. Nothing gets through to him.

ur just rong JIGGLYPUFF is the worst no matter what

+Finlay TM umm no he isn't I seen some jigglypuff players and there and is rest move is strong so yea he's right if you use the character good there all good.

+Finlay TM gannon is worse

yeah. some charecters like gannon and jigglyuff can not win large tournaments

Yep 👍

that's why he has unreal footwork, his extended dash dancing is the best by far, his perfect pivots are godly, his crouching perfect pivot is the fastest in the game, his foxtrot is super far capable of 4-5 fox trots across omega stages. he may require you to read your opponent as an approach, but he has more than enough speed to deal with it.

As someone who once mained Little Mac, I have to say getting the damage from 0% to 20% is a complicated part of the match, Especially when someone is playing the "rope-a-dope" strat. and both of you make good points, but again it comes down to.... can you get them to that %. and against someone who is playing safe, you possibly can't, Imagine against a great bayo.... one that uses witch time a lot. (happened to me) I HATED IT!!!! did it in the air, did it on the ground, even ran up to me just to use it in front of me, had to start grabbing and soon that didn't work (gotta mix it up). It was annoying. and at times, since you don't have projectiles, or a reflector, you have to stay close but keep distance, like in actual Boxing, But with most people, they want you doing that. They are baiting you out. (which is why the super armor makes sense) That's when you remember you have one thing, that was forgotten to be talked about in the video, He has a counter attack. when even used in mid air correctly, gets you closer to the stage (if it triggers and you're above the stage, can't be too far down.) and actually helps against some people (not all). but even that can be punished, (in the air by not hitting, or on the ground by just grabbing) who said he' has 50-50 moves, well. He's a do or die Character. like it or not, It's take a chance, and with correct reads, he's more of a Do 80% or die 20% he's not a guaranteed win 100% of the time, because one mistake with little mac, As we all know could cost him a stock even at 0%

T.F.H.K. Swiggity swooty

***** I love using low-tiers as well, Charizard is my main and I love Mii Gunner

***** Lucina is my number 1 main, so you're not alone. I honestly don't agree with most of the Smash 4 tiers. Though i'm not crazy about tiers in general, but I understand why they exist.

I love using lucina

SilverRain i love using lucina and charizard. and i have a friend who isnt half bad with mac. wait until i tell him about the down tilt

***** i have a feeling when the meta game evolves, a lot of low teirs like zelda lucina marth and wario will be atleast in the top 15

Well Tiers are for Queers anyway.

M8 not every high tier is easy to use. I thought people could play whoever they want.

Caillou You can play whoever you want, and the only top tier that is hard to use is Rosalina, and even without much skill i won 80% of 1-on-1 matches on for glory using Rosalina

+BLBR For glory sucks. Of course you won with no skill.

So all rush down characters are bad according to you? Really?

You called it.

;)

but little mac is the king

Congratson because that's a video

Christ vargas wait, people think shulk is bad? what? i've only ever heard good things about shulk...

leon2550 Yea. I've heard tons of people say shulk is a mediocre swordsman numerous times. Though that didn't stop me from making him my first main ;p Tho maybe the people I know just don't realize he is near top tier. But it's good to hear that people that you know know the power of the Monando boys

I wish we had tournaments at my school.

Christ vargas The current general consensus in the community is that Shulk is high tier. His only real issue is that his frame data is below average. Despite this, he's far from mediocre. Shulks's outstanding range, great adaptability, good approaches, strong ledgeguarding ability, and unique MALLC make for a strong and viable character. He may not be the next Sheik and Rosalina, but he's far from bad. All of the people who say Shulk sucks are obviously the people who still think Lucario is top tier.

Christ vargas my friend said Shulk sucked & that Ike was better. I then proceeded to two stock him in our first match.

I main him too! He is op!

+Colin McGreevy I played Little Mac at my friends they said "Little Mac?".......like he was bad....at the end of the match I sent him flying when he slipped up with MewTwo We need more Little Macs man

Little macs for the wiiiin

Mac power, son !

Little Max is one of my best characters. But I don't main him. He is usually my 2nd of 3rd.

Aerials can make for a very good little Mac combo. I hate it when people just assume little macs completely useless in the air despite having no clue what they're saying.

i use the fact that people think mac's got no aerials to combo into death. it's fun and it makes them stay away and worry.

It's true. His aerials do suck in neutral. However, they do make for amazing combos.

Slamblaster yeah trust me I only go on this video because he inspire me to play little mac so I either play little mac now or link and ganondorf(only because I like to gananside)

Ummm no they aren't popularity contests... If they were, you would see way more low tiers winning. Also diddy kong isn't that popular of a character... Please remove stupid before commenting.

Bruce Wayne Seeing that you said that, I will not concern myself with you.

CircusBlue92 As long as characters can have good or bad matchups against other characters, tier lists will never be obsolete. Even in a theoretical game where all of the characters have equal numbers of good and bad matchups, tier lists will still be relevant because they are a way to assess the metagame on the whole. If certain characters are getting good results in top tier play, then it's indicative to people at lower levels that those characters likely have good matchups against the currently popular characters. And it tells people playing at high levels that they need answers to those characters, either by attempting to develop their own character's metagame or by picking up a secondary. In Smash 4, tier lists are still certainly relevant because the fighters are definitely not balanced perfectly. There's a significant amount of variance among the characters that are succeeding in tournaments (or, at least, more than Brawl), but pre-patch Diddy didn't just win a lot of tournaments because he was popular and easy to play; he also had dominant frame data and a difficult-to-gimp recovery. Below is evidence for individual matchups necessitating a tier list. Don't read it if you don't want to. If you are in a best of 3 set on the wrong side of a 70-30 matchup, you don't have a 30% chance of winning; you have a 30% chance of winning each individual game (assuming the matchup numbers are accurate, which they never will perfectly be, and the players are of equal skill, which is a difficult thing to quantify, but that's a whole 'nother bag of worms). Rather, you have a 21% chance of winning (.3^2 + .3^2 x .7 x 2). And if you have a 70-30 matchup against the most popular character at the time, that 20% is going to crop up a uncomfortably often. In other words, you'll be playing a low tier character because of the metagame they are taking part in. This gets worse in a best of 5. With the same 70-30 matchup, you now have a 16% (.3^3 + .3^3 x .7 x 3 + .3^3 x .7^2 x 6) chance of winning a best of 5 against this same popular character. Those odds are definitely not in your favor. If you've found your way into loser's side Grand Finals, you need to pull that off twice, for a stunning 4% chance of winning the tournament after managing to get all the way into Grand Finals. If you're in winner's side Grand Finals, you've got a 29.5% chance of coming out successful... finally close to that perceived 70-30 matchup, but the odds are still definitely against you. To recap the argument: The only premises are that characters do not all have even matchups against each other, that the competing players are of a comparable skill level, and that some characters are more popular than others. Given those scenarios, each of the characters available will have more or less chance to succeed in tournament settings, as that is determined by what matchups they go through. And since certain characters are more popular than others, all the character's likelihood to succeed in a tournament CANNOT be equal, as certain characters will have more prominent good matchups than others. In other words, a tier list is necessitated, as certain characters are more likely to succeed than others. Note that the argument for the existence of tier lists works even in an environment where every character is "equally good." The argument that characters are innately "better" than others wasn't part of that at all; rather, the environment that they are placed in is important. In other words, popularity contests are actually a part of how well a character works in competitive play!

redblue200 Finally, a person with a level conscience. I commend you for not spewing shit and wasting my time. Even though the statistical percentile of winning or not is relevant to teir lists, that is why I have a gripe with them. For there is an unlimited number of whether or not one succeeds, thus bringing up your point of one trying to make their own metagame. I do strongly agree that everyone is not balanced perfectly, but that doesn't mean (for example) a Charizard has an absolute 30% (or what have you) of winning against a Diddy Kong. I believe in an infinite amount of possibilities, and wish for players to think outside of the box and ignore these "Teir-lists". I may not attend huge tournaments like EVO, but I do know that if one knows their character well enough, they could truly shine forth. This may not be the response you want, but just take it, it's my opinion and my theory.

redblue200 Oh... And I saw that Dr Mario of all people is last in the tier lists.... What?

Adam Castro dude, his recovery is amazing, its far superior to mario or doctor mario and hell it even has a large tendency to KO opponents. I love is recovery, and his side b not as bad you would think. its very useful.

..... ya know he cant recover he hes he dosent have a double jump and if hes at a 90 degree angle from a stage right?

You need to educate yourself a little bit more there buddy, because you are wrong. yeah also you can steer the rising uppercut, and its very easy to get back on stage even with a trashy mario trying to show that you suck, but in reality he sucks. Not to mention you dont do the side b immediately, sometimes you dont at all, all you need is fall enough and you will land near the edge or just counter and that brings to the stage every time. You are also wrong because little mac has a wall jump, therefore he has a double jump.

Every character has a double jump dude

wait do you play as little mac? or do you just like to watch combo videos so you can make fun of them?

DeathThePlague saaaaame! i just forgot the d tilt and time it right. people become wild and stupid when they hear that bell go off and see my K.O.

DeathThePlague D-Tilt to KO works in relatively low percents, when the knockback from D-Tilt is neglegible enough. Most normal-sized characters die from KO Punch at 27%-35% at the earliest, so make sure your D-Tilt will do at least that much.

yashsickle Macs are already winning locals and getting top 3 at regionals. I agree other characters are better I'm just saying he doesn't suck.

BKG in what reality?????

yashsickle In....this reality? Little Mac actually has one of the highest win/usage rate of any character. In tournaments that have results reported, Little Mac has been in 224 top 16s and has 36 first place finishes. Do your research. smashboards.com/threads/usage-based-tier-considerations.396301/

I'll still gimp you in for glory hahahahahahahahahaha

yashsickle Well...if you need _lag_ to win, then alright: _gimp away!_

you can't have 20 mains, any more than 3 isn't a main also people on for glory are terrible and can and will side-b off the ledge

TheCannon 20 mains is absurd. The definition of main is the character you play the most out of all the majority of characters. And just because you main a character doesn't mean they're good. Melee kirby probably has some people who main him. Still flaming garbage.

20 mains isnt a main, you have a main and a secondary and sometimes you have a third just-in-case character, any character is good if you're actually good at the game. that doesnt show anything thing that just shows you like playing more than 3 characters.

little mac is the king

homo bob No, Cloud is

Alex DeMoss nope.

Alex DeMoss bet i could beat you

Alex DeMoss can

Or as piccolo says..... "DODGE!"

Piccalo's last words: "Neeeeeeeerd."