people miss-interprete the size of arms, to the size of muscles like wrist flexors or pronators. So they think the bodybuilder is weak even tho his muscles are big, but in reality the muscles that matters arent so developed
Absolutely, we have to set time to also do hypertrophy work for the smaller armwrestling muscles. Most of the common armwrestling specific exercises out there now don’t really have good ROM to adequately target hypertrophy for those muscles.
@EastsideArmWrestling im pretty sure i saw somewhere that he does like 10 reps or something like that for most things, and also full ROM exercises as well as short ROM i believe 😊
@EastsideArmWrestling i wasn't entirely correct, i checked. He generally trains like a body builder, then on Wednesdays, he does aw specific lifts. Then he also works in a marble quarry, i bet that also helps 😉💪
@EastsideArmWrestling hmm i don't know actually. I cant see anywhere that he quit. Anyway i think it has generally still contributed to his general strenght even though he stopped
GOATED video dude. You're making the type of content I've wanted other AW channels to make for a long long time but they went the news/clickbait/vlog their lifestyle route which, don't get me wrong, I enjoy that type of content too but this type of informational and discussion worthy topical content is what keeps the sport evolving and newbies from hurting themselves and is much much needed in this space of the sport! Keep it up man!
Hey brother, you don’t know how much that means to me that you took the time to leave that positive feedback. I totally agree that there’s a time and place for the news, vlog, training, etc. type arm wrestling channels. I watch those too every now and then, but I realized the online arm wrestling space has gotten so saturated with that kinda stuff, so I wanted to do something more transformative and original. I truly appreciate your support, especially as a relatively small channel. Hope to continue creating more outlets for discussion about such topics in arm wrestling. Greg
Thanks Josh! I’m sure as a professional personal trainer yourself, you’re very experienced with appropriately periodizing your training programs. Unfortunately, I noticed that there is still quite a lot of misinformation or broscience going about the community. So, hopefully this video can help to open room for discussion about this and help others to see a blind spot that they might have.
I think one of the most important factors about these 0 ROM specific lifts in the west is that most western pullers are on the older side, while european pullers have a lot more young talent going on. Ermes Gasparini is the perfect example of how training for hypertrophy can translate to the table if you know what you're doing. The fact that "the Western school" is pretty much derived from John Brzenk (who pretty much never lifted weights), while the Eastern pullers had referents such as Denis Cyplenkov or Levan Saginashvili definitely helped to make that division on training philosophy.
I think what you’ve described is very accurate of how that sort of mentality developed between the eastern and western schools of thought. Thanks for sharing!
Important and accurate points made here. I agree hypertrophy needs to be a part of AW training for most. I rarely ever get table time and am a massage therapist for work, so my focus is biased towards AW specific training, but since my last tournament I’ve incorporated more high rep/full ROM training, am already noticing my AW lift numbers increasing steadily, and you might be convincing me to add a bit more! Thanks for another great video!
Oh, that's awesome, Ian. Never realized you're a massage therapist. That must come in handy! So great to hear that your incorporation of higher-rep, full ROM training has benefited you positively. Thanks again for your continued support! 👊
Thanks for your compliment! I’ll try to think of an interesting topic about the hand and wrist in the future for sure 💯 Currently one of my video talks about cupping, search “How Devon Larratt Created the Perfect Toproll”
One important point is that the muscles you would attempt to hypertrophy for AW will not make a big difference in body weight. Increase the forearm and hand muscle volume by 20% and that’s probably a pound or two per arm. Increase muscle volume of biceps and triceps by 20%, probably 2-3 per arm. One thing that would be really interesting to me would be a bone density and crystalline alignment analysis (don’t know if the second one is a thing yet) on various AW postmortem, see what kind of changes have occurred compared to gen pop.
Exactly, the muscles that are important for arm wrestling won't even really add that much to our total body mass, so athletes have even less worry about becoming "too heavy." I agree that the postmortem would be a cool insight! I'd assume that the bone density would definitely be much higher than the average person's considering the amount of unnatural forces and torque we subject our bones to, on top of the muscle training that already promotes bone strengthening.
Yes but Under & neutral pull ups, bench presses, push-ups & various rows, maximize back and side pressure, as well as put on extra quality weight, And Levan is the ultimate example of the results of this training style.
Good points Greg. Hypertrophy is very important. If you are growing naturally, you don’t want to hinder the growth process. If you are not growing naturally, but using PEDs, that’s a different story.
That's a very good point. PEDs change things up quite a bit and you have to pay even MORE attention to avoid injuries since muscle growth will often way outpace connective tissue growth.
Thankyou!! I’ve been arguing with people about this for over 2yrs about Devon Larratt, Yes everyone knows He’s strong for his weight & appearance, But when he’s competing in the super heavyweight division against the 400lb Levan, He needs to get his base strength and functional muscle weight up as high as possible to maximize his chances! And this comes from doing all of the big compound strength movements as (part) of his training, and since Devon is obviously a masterful skilled arm wrestler,all of the extra base strength & size that he would gain from such a discerning program would transfer right to the table because of his muscle memory from all of his extensive table practice. Levan clearly understands this simple & logical concept, and the results speak for themselves.🤔
Thanks for taking the time to leave your comment, bopper! Unfortunately, the armwrestling community is still filled with a lot of broscience and misinformation and sometimes, because it comes from top armwrestlers, beginners easily believe the questionable info. Hopefully this video helps to promote a more holistic approach to armwrestling training and help some pullers be more critical in their approach to armwrestling training. - Greg
Thanks Martino! Hoping to promote a more holistic approach to armwrestling training. I’m seeing way too many people trying to be Devon impersonators and just doing 2 or 3 lifts with 4° range of motion. This is a recipe for disaster.
Thanks so much, Jimmy! I’m glad you enjoyed the video. Hopefully, it gave you some additional perspective to this aspect of armwrestling training. Or at the very least was fun and entertaining! 😅
@@jimmylow9265oh definitely, you should prioritize your NS reasons for now since it’s gonna be way easier on you physically if you’re fitter there. All the best on your transformation journey man! 👊
Great video Man! I workout 3 times per week focusing in strenght and in hypertrophy also. I have 25 yo and i want to compete in armwrestiling in the Future. So my muscles and tendons must be prepared. I am from Brazil and this sport is impopular here, i am the only Guy in the gym who bring a belt to train pronator hahaha😅
Hi, Lucas, thanks so much for your kind words and for watching the video. I hope to see you competing soon! It's such a fun sport. I know in Brazil there are many great arm wrestlers like Gabi Vasconcelos and Wagner Bortolato. Even the lightweight champion Cleiton Batista has visited Singapore and trained with us before. Haha, keep bringing your belt to the gym! Maybe more people will see you training and become interested in the sport.
Replacing an armwrestling ROM with full-ROM with deep stretch increases hypertrophy 3 FOLD. There's a partial-ROM bicep curl study to back this. Because the correlation between muscle size and strength is somewhere between 0.61 and 0.95, tripling hypertrophy mathematically means greater total strength gains.
For those reading who aren't familiar with statistics, 0.61-0.95 correlation is crazy. You pretty much never get those kinds of correlation numbers in anything else, so this isn't something that can really be argued with.
2 strength training 1 stretching/recover training and 1 full rom, more hypertrophy training i would say ratio like that - or u can combine recover training with hypertrophy ofc people are different
Ultimately the best balance will be different for each person. I encourage everyone to try experimenting themselves to figure out what works best for them! Thanks for taking the time to leave your advice here baze 👊
Great stuff, I've been talking about the correlation between size and strength in armwrestling for a year now... Now my position isn't unique! (kidding)
That's so great to hear that you've been spreading the knowledge to those around you, Heath! Keep doing what you're doing, and thanks so much for watching and supporting.
I agree, I think hypertrophy training and adding full range of motion in the training is great for your armwrestling progress and health. I can say by myself that for example I didn't train my bicep in full range (not even half curls lol) and I've always had weak hook. I always had huge pain in my elbow as well for years. When I added full ramge of bicep curls for hypertrophy and for strength after few weeks I could pull in the hook. My my elbow has never felt healthier. And the pain I had for 4 years just GONE!
I think the best argument for hypertrophy in armwrestling is the recent match between Valera and Lars. Valera has been training for only a few years, went against a MUCH more experienced puller and yet he was so close to win. I'm not sayin that muscle was the only factor (technique, strength and connective tissue still matters) but it is obvious that if Valera wasn't as big as he is he wouldn't have a chance against a puller such as Lars.
Thanks for the great example, deneb! As much as people want to debate about how they know of some small-sized guys that can beat much bigger fellas, once you control for all other factors, muscle size really does play a huge part.
Great video! As a beginner, I really appreciate your advice! I want to ask: is it fine if I'll construct a training routine in a way that I do armwrestling strength training for one week, and hypertrophy training for the second week and then repeat, or is there a better way? Thanks so much for the video!❤️🔥
What you’re describing is a form of undulating periodization. Typically instead of doing it week to week, people will undulate the intensity from day to day (e.g. strength-hypertrophy-strength etc.).
@@EastsideArmWrestlingThank you bro! but still, is it possible to do it week to week, or it's gonna be less efficient? Because week to week is just more comfortable for me 😊
@@WaltMarkson at the end of the day, the best program is one that you can stick to consistently. So if week to week is better and more convenient for you, then definitely do it. There isn’t a big downside.
I think there are a couple of other fitness channels that have covered this topic already. I don’t think I can add anything else to the topic, nor do I think it would make an interesting enough topic for an armwrestling video.
Awesome video. Finally, someone said it. Voice of Armwrestling would never cover this. Them, along with other pseudo science armwrestling channels, dont preach proper training, and it leads to people getting injured and the sport looking amature.
Haha, thanks again for the video idea guys (not sure which one of you writes the comments)! I've personally just started my first real hypertrophy block in over a year (didn't get to do any last year due to competing so often). Hope to make some awesome gains! Wishing you guys a great 2024 ahead.
I don't others, but in my experience at the beginning my weight was 94kg now is 86kg and I have been doing arm wrestling exercises for 1year and 6 months. And I am getting strong+ 120percent according to my lifting weights. So weight is important why for side pressure and for balance , the question is your hand matches to your weight.
i just did a 3 month AW lifting program with 0 range of motion lifts, and specifically strength based. my strength increased a good amount. i will now proceed to do a full ROM 3 month program strength based and will see how much my strength increases as opposed to static lifts.
That's an interesting experiment you're doing, please do let me know how things turn out in 3 months! Even though both of them are strength blocks as opposed to a strength-hypertrophy split, I'm still curious to know how partial and full ROM training affects your strength gains. Thanks for watching!
I agree with most of you what you say except for the two words. Levan is strong for his size. He can curl his bodyweight when sitting. He's massive, and strong. He doesn't even have great technique. If he got better technique he'd be even more unstoppable. You didn't choose an outlier, you chose, the outlier. Levan does a lot of static/low ROM heavy lifts as well as a lot of hypertrophy full ROM. That's why he's so strong he does both.
The point I was trying to make there was that being bigger definitely does correlate strongly with being stronger, that’s why I used Levan as an example: because he’s just about as big as it gets in armwrestling. Also, I’d argue that Levan actually has really good technique. He didn’t start out in the superheavies and has spent many years having close matches with other guys in his class, which has given him ample time to hone his technique. And I totally agree with your last sentence, which is the main point of this video: do both. Too many people only do strength training, which can be limiting at a certain point.
People don't realize that especially noobs have to take years to build muscle and doing it with strength training will take forever, experienced it myself. In every strength sport people on high level understand that you need volume, strength, peaking phase to train as professional. And that applies to how all russians since soviet era have tackled olympic sports.
Hear hear! I’ve seen so many people stunting their progress by making sub-optimal training decisions (myself included). Hopefully, this knowledge helps to prevent that from happening for some people.
Here's a free video idea: "benefits of detraining/long periods of no specificity." Lots of armwrestlers think that if they're not constantly training in no rom and the same movements that they'll become detrained or have a fomo of not being able to do generic social media lift. Becoming detrained is actually a good thing in regard to recovery and muscle adaptation. But, you have juice heads on social media spamming the same lifts, thinking it's optimal when it's the juice they're on allowing them to not plateau.
Another very interesting topic, and definitely one that is important to talk about for the arm wrestling community. Thanks! Haha, you guys would make great content generators.
The Russians don’t hold a title in any weight class at the elite level despite their hypertrophy. What do you think about only training hypertrophy, and then focus specificity, strength, and power in the lead up to a match/tournament?
That’s because Russians are banned from WAF due to the ongoing war. What you described is a traditional block periodization approach and is very effective not just for armwrestling but strength and sports in general.
That’s so awesome that the video managed to change your view on this topic. Though here’s a disclaimer: not all my videos are intended to propose an idea as the “correct” thing. They’re more intended as a way to open up discussion for new perspectives on the sport. Thank you for watching the video and supporting the channel. Really appreciate it.
Muscle size do help.... like max muscle size within a category is advantageous.... but arm wrestling is still a tendon sport. in a comment u were saying muscle arm the contractile tissue so it's a muscle thing. Then why do people with larger muscles like larry get defeated by someone smaller... or any one else..... Arm wrestling is not different to any other athletic event like sprint long jump etc.... they are also depending on there tendon..they are also humans so they have muscles as their contractile tissue but still can run faster than the guy with the largest leg in bodybuilding. Even with those large muscles no ones winning the medal without tendons... how did John brezenk manage to defeat people heavier than him?? Was he using vanishing cream to hide his muscles
Watch my video on arm wrestling genetics my friend (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QJwmHgMTldo.htmlsi=uUTd94W5P3gUsJNh). Of course there are many other factors than just size, but most of the other factors you can’t train. But for size you can surely train it, so it’s one of the most important to focus on.
Larry doesn't have the same neurological training in the arm wrestling specific movements and muscles like the lighter weight champions that can beat him. Anddd dont even mention his powerlifting strength. That is not the same thing. However, he does possess the potential to produce more force than they can if he's trained the neurology specific enough....because he has the muscle contractile tissue to program and coordinate. This takes time and effort. You dont move skeletal bones with tendons, at least not enough to produce the force to pin someone. Passive tension is irrelevant.
Not all the time bigger muscles are much stronger in armwreatling. It's all about genetics and training and especially technique. How can you explain vitaly, oleg, devon and the like who beat significantly bigger guys.
Please watch the video in full as I’ve addressed the exact point that you’ve brought up. Obviously genetics vary widely across people, and a smaller guy can beat a bigger guy. But if you control for all other factors, a bigger muscle is most certainly going to be a stronger muscle. You’re not gonna be weaker if you put on 5 lbs of muscle. That’s the point I’m making.
I respect your opinion on this, but here’s my rebuttal: Strength training does definitely build size, but as I mentioned in the video, it is: 1) sub-optimal for hypertrophy 2) unsustainable for extended periods of time 3) more likely to lead to injuries Regarding your second point, most arm wrestlers train horribly on the table - going all out, way past failure multiple times in a session. That’s just a recipe for disaster. It’ll lead to injuries, regression, and take away from time that could be spent doing more productive training. There is definitely a time for strength training, especially so for arm wrestling. But my view is that there should also be ample time set aside for hypertrophy-style training.
It’s as if you’re saying Armwrestling is a muscle strength sport. It’s not. It’s primarily a tendon, joint and ligament sport. Muscles definitely play a role. A smaller muscle on this guy may be stronger than the guy with bigger muscle because he has a higher density. Like a ball of steel is stronger than a ball of wood. It’s still a ball but metal is more dense making it stronger.
That's a commonly misunderstood concept. Sure, your tendons and other connective tissue are important, however, they aren't the tissues that generate substantial force. That is your muscles. They contract to move and control your skeleton. The saying about arm wrestling being a tendon, joint, ligament sport just means that the tendons have to catch up to the muscles while initially beginning training. They're not playing catchup forever. It is scientifically proven that a bigger muscle has the potential to be a stronger muscle. Once you've added some size, then you improve your rate coding, coordination, etc, to go along with that newly built muscle via strength training methods. Also, your concept of muscle density being equated to strength isn't really a thing.
I think @JacoFett99 has described very eloquently what I have to say about this point - "tendon sport" is a common broscience term being throw around in arm wrestling. The actual contractile tissue generating force is your muscles.
