My story : This is all true. Im not a mechanic (electronics repair tech) but been watching your channel for some time and past week by family diesel car had a injector failure. Right on the same time i had to pay for a funeral and some **** that is better to laugh than to cry. I thought i have little to lose, next stop was towing so watching how you diagnose on the spot that gave me inspiration and somehow gave me courage to check it too on the street. Used a cheap obd scanner, message stating "injector open or shorted" i then proceeded to disconnect piping etc take engine cover and multimeter in hand, detected a bad contact of wiring to the injector #2 . Contact cleaner on 4 injectors amd put the bent pins back as proper as possible and machine is now working better than before surprisingly. Thank you.
Hey Ivan, I’m a diesel truck tech. I work on these systems all day every day. There is a lot going on here. The situation you’re in happens to me a lot. NOx conversion efficiency issues with no fault found in shop. On my end, it’s typically because when I’m doing testing at the shop, the engine/aftertreatment is not loaded enough to show the symptom fully (The fault will return when the customer takes the truck and is pulling a hill fully loaded) So basically, here’s how I have been troubleshooting these will a very high level of success. I make 100% sure there is nothing wrong with the DEF itself. I will do the quantity test with the injector removed through the software. I check the quality of the DEF with a refractometer (It needs to be 32.5 % urea) then I test it for contamination with a test strip. If all is good, then I can 100% say it is not a DEF issue. At this point, either a NOx sensor is intermittently drifting or the SCR catalyst is starting to weaken. This is where a conversation needs to be had with the customer. If the price is right on a NOx sensor, ruling them out by replacing them with OEM ones are sometimes necessary… However, some manufacturers do have a NOx sensor verification test, which just wakes up the sensors and does not inject DEF for a certain amount of time while the engine runs. You can compare the values. At first, the outlet sensor will read lower as DEF deposits clear out of the SCR. After 15-20 minutes, they should read exactly the same. If the readings aren’t exactly the same, one or both of the sensors are drifting. If at this point you are still seeing issues, the SCR catalyst has failed… and this not cheap. As you can tell, this is rarely the sort of fault you find a smoking gun. All you can do is use logic and communicate with your customer. I hope I gave you some helpful info for the future. It’s rare I get to share my knowledge on the topic as it is fairly niche.
Another thing you can do is watch the nox sensor readings along with doing the steps you stated first. Sometimes the outlet will read higher than the inlet which is physically impossible which narrows down very quickly your troubleshooting to a nox sensor issue. Also I have seen a stuck open thermostat cause def quality codes before actually throwing coolant temp too low for engine operating condition codes.
I’ve owned a Cruze deisel since new 205,000 miles on it now, I bought my own fancy gm scan tool & I had this fault before, ran the test you did in this video & the fault never came back
Also replaced the heater twice in my car, once under warranty and again at like 160k. Doing my own mtc this is a great car, for the average person I’d say stay away
Every day something new and strange to solve, Ivan. Your channel is very educational. Ray Magliozi of Click and Clack once said that being a physician is easier than being a mechanic because they only have to deal with one make and two models.
Hopefully, you solved your problem. I had the same DEF quality countdown 4 times over the last four months with my 2017 GMC Canyon. At first, the error code indicated nox sensor failures. I replaced both. Bought a bi-directional scanner so I could do the reductant fluid quality test (must pass to clear speed restriction countdown). Worked for a short while, then returned. This time I got a P040B code. I replaced the EGR sensor and reran the quality test. It passed the test and all was good for a few days until the DEF quality countdown returned. This time, there are no error codes, and running the quality test cleared the DEF warning. Now I'm bracing myself for it to happen again. On the bright side, the $300 scanner I bought was a great investment. Never going diesel again!
Could have been slightly contaminated fluid due to condensation in the tank, as the Alldata info on the code suggested. Just running enough fluid through the system cleared that right back out.
That doesn't even make sense DEF is just watered down urea and since it is already 2/3 water you would need some major condensation to alter the percentage but the condensation itself isn't an issue because it is likely cleaner than the water they used to make the DEF in the first place
My morning cup of coffee ☕ with Ivan. I'm always eager to learn from Ivan. Dr O and others. My buddy was asking about purchasing a new scan tool. From Ivan recommendation. I pointed him to the Think Tool scanner. Told him it has lots of capabilities including coding. Thank you Ivan.
I do like the multi-part videos you do but I especially like the one part videos, mainly so the customer doesn't have to dig too deep into their pockets 😉
Well in Europe we got SCR-DEF system on PSA vehicles, in addition of DPF. They tend to crap at low mileage. Solution, remove-unplug DEF components, and re flash modded ECU map with SCR-DEF disabled
Good result, forcing the regen. In the Uk I had a very low percentage of diesel vehicles on my books. Now in Spain, I do mainly diesels. Most of the manufacturers use PSA group (Peugeot/Citroen) engines, blocked dpf's are very common and also very common to get them in with no Eolys and for the fiats no def. As an aside, I had a 2019 Fiat 500l which I had to connect to the SGW just to reset the service data. Great video Ivan.
Working on GM can be so much fun But thanks for putting your self out there you have helped a old diesel guy be far better at trouble shooting this new over computerized vehicles
Ivan, interesting to see you work through this. Your going to need to spread some old grease on that ThinkTool Pro so you can at least get a little bit dirty while fixing stuff. Thanks for Sharing!
EPA and whole federal government is out of control!! Vehicles are way too complex and costly due to all of the regulations! We Americans just keep shooting our selves in the proverbial foot in the name of saving the environment! When will the madness end!! Good video!
I have never touched one of those systems and would be happy to keep it that way. Good to see the Thinktool got the job done, I really like mine so far. Thanks Ivan. Nice work. 👍👍🇺🇸
You had a build up of crystalized def in the scr.The quality test burned it off.Thats why the nox ppm went down on the outlet sensor during the test. The ppm spread is correct if system is working correctly you should see single digit ppm on outlet sensor
I had this nightmare with the DEF system at the start of this year. Doing the DEF tests and diagnosis didn't help it eventually came back. I deduced later that it was the NOX2 sensor that had went bad and after taking it to the dealer to inform them of this, they confirmed with GM that it was indeed the sensor. The sensor that was there was the original one from the factory. GM did a special warranty replacement with the updated NOX2 sensor and since then I have had no more issues with the DEF light or system. Now the DPF, that's another matter. And since you can't get a replacement DPF anywhere from anyone, if that goes bad i'm screwed, or at least the car is. Its a great car with good fuel economy its just that the emission stuff is holding it back.
The cruze should have run the DEF when it requires it. That should be done every few months. Like you go in the settings menu in the cluster and command it. I had to run the DEF cleaning on gmc Denali pick up. It ran 2800rpm over an hour, sounded like jet engine lol. You just have to put an external big ass fan front of the carto cool the rad, as it can run up to 500-600 degrees! It's dang hot!! But i got the nox down to low acceptable levels. Great job Ivan!
@@phprofYT come to Africa my friend, no laws and/or legislation for emissions in most our third world countries, plus, with our climate, poor fuel quality/roads and such, emission components tend to fail so we just delete them from the engine computer
@@phprofYT All they do is to fine you and the mechanic and require you to re-inspect the car. But the fines are painful if discovered. Emergency vehicles are exempt from the inducements like lowered speed and torque, all they do is to light up that darn light.
Have same ‘14 Cruze CTD with just under 300k mi. Best repair made to car was the def delete. This is the weak part on this car. It was a constant source of problems leaving me in limp mode way too often. After delete only repairs were alternator and a/c compressor at 150k. Turbo at 225k and plastic water line. Fun car to drive
Off topic but I can't believe the garbage being sold at the part stores. I've been in business about 6 years and had more warranty issues in 5 months then I've had in 6 years. I do a oil pan on a 2009 traverse. The new pan had a hair line crack and of course I couldn't see it until every thing was back together and filled. Then the other day I do 2 2016 dodge caravan front pads and rotors. Both come back with squilling when it rains. The only time I've ever had a squilling issue is when I put cheap pads on a customers car because that's all they had in stock, so I never did that again. Now it seems the good pads are now cheap as well. I don't know if anyone else is having issues but here in Cleveland Ohio its bad.
Looks like similar system to adblue on Peugeot vans injects urea fluid into exhaust to lower the nox content always plagued with issues, usually down to the injector or the fluid levels
The reason the ppm was lower on the downstream at the beginning of the test was because the Def fluid is stored in the catalyst and it takes time for this to be used before the sensors read equal. A good test is to disconnect the injector and drive for 10-20 miles and both sensors should read the same if they are ok.
Nice video and interesting seeing you go through the steps. When I had semi trucks we ran into issues with crystals building up on the injector and causing issues. Idling and not getting up to operating temperature seems to cause a lot of the issues since the system needs a lot of heat to work properly.
Same here i live in Australia, i used to drive a Kenworth T359, T610 and T900 and yes they do have problems with doing burns but i find it better if you thrash the crap out of them, push every gear to the limit they seem to drive better I’ve only driven Roadranger though love Kenworths just sad im stuck with a German Mercedes Benz Actros with an auto 😔
The heater in the DEF tank was a known issue and has a TSB where it’s replaced free. Once replaced, it doesn’t present a problem. That throws a different code than the DEF fluid ( NoX issue). Using certain DEF fluids can cause this issue. I tried the expensiveBlue DEF Platinum and it threw this code. Replaced that expensive Blue Def Platinum with regular Blue DEF fluid and code cleared itself. This was likely a NOX issue , not actually bad DEF. A simple forced regen fixed the problem.
This problem (limp mode/def heater) is covered by dealer under 120k miles. Im not the "go to the dealer" type of person at all but when this happened to me I did some research. Found out it's a def heater fault and its covered under 120k mi. They said if that's the problem it's covered if not the diagnosis alone is $400. They replaced it completely free and 55k mi later haven't gotten the fault.
Afternoon Ivan. Had a 92 Toyota pickup to fix .. New fuel pump.. Truck...crank no start. Following what I learned..powers and grounds. The truck is done.. Lots of work tracing bad grounds. Broken green crusties galores.. In between work schedules. I got it running. The last bit was a smoked EFI relay. Again thank you Ivan and Dr. O...If I can do it...So can you. Yes sir..with minimal tools. Including a meter that reads milli volts. I traced everything.
Diesel engine with exhaust injection seems like an engine with AdBlue technology. AdBlue (Urineum) is sprayed into the diesel exhaust fume before the cat. to change the molucair structure of the gasses to a environmental friendlier one (NOX, CO2). Én fin, the lambda sensors before (or after) the catalytic converter has a failure: wrong readings of the mixture. Or the AdBlue injector has a failure. The AdBlue level is to low. Or the unit that warms up the AdBlue before injection has a failure. Another possibility could be the diesel exhaust filter is full. But thats probably not the case here.
We have a few of them around here, and about that mileage the intake butterfly valve gets clogged up with soot where the EGR dumps in the intake and causes DPF performance codes. They also have a recall on the Def heater.
I drove an Isuzu NPR for a while that had a similar condition after running a regeneration cycle shutting down and restarting took care of it, the issue eventually cleared up and the truck is still in use
I bought a rusted to total F high mileage 2002 F250 powerstroke last fall that gets me to work and back during mud season but at least it doesn't take DEF.
@@MitzvosGolem1 if it ain't plugged in, it ain't starting. Haven't owned it long enough to see how it cold starts in the middle of summer yet. The belt tho. Finally got one that doesn't screech constantly.
downstream NOx sensor takes a lot longer to start reading. running the reductant quality test after a short test drive, ~10 miles, is better than driving it to get it to wake up.
Def faults are the bane of a diesel mechanic. If it doesn't have something flat out broken, it can be the hardest problem to fix. I have had def injectors pass flow test but fail drive cycle. Nox sensors that are intermittently reading wrong.
I work on Med and heavy duty trucks and we often have to do forced regents on trucks. It’s normal for the readings to be all over the place during regen. There is a range they should stay between that varies between Trk type. It’s usually pretty obvious when a sensor is off.
I won a 2014 Chevy Cruze diesel from a copart auction for $2,100 spent another $1,000 fixing the body damage at home And I did a DEF delate The car runs great....
Ivan ,over the pound,we love diesels, but you hit the nail on the head when you said the code came on a long run,,what seems to happen,if the car is on short runs a lot,the cat does not get hot,so does not burn the cat clean,after a while it thought a code,this does happen with local cars taken on a long run,the cure,every month go shopping 1hour away,good video.
I think the injector is leaking slightly, just enough that it barely needs to send any command to achieve the target. I guess the real test would be to look at another of the same engine under similar conditions and see if the command is higher. I am surprised you didn't take the injector out and test it, is it really difficult to remove?
@T.J. Kong I mostly disagree (though good editing is indeed difficult!). I think the technical stuff could be crap and that doesn't matter so much. The important part is being comfortable, engaging, and energetic on camera. That is also the hardest part for a lot of people, myself included. Putting someone whose element is CAD, textbooks, and code in front of a camera doesn't end well.
@T.J. Kong I know I'm in the minority here, but I personally much prefer less produced channels (seems you might, too). And yeah, they're not the biggest of the big, but there are plenty of them around with a respectable following. How much writing, storyboarding, light and sound, editing and sponsor engagement do you think Louis Rossmann does? It's just video after video of barely planned extemporaneous ranting, but it works and a lot of people love it because the guy has great on-camera energy. Sure, maybe that's the difference between a 500K and 50M sub channel, but those "small" channels are still enough to make someone a living.
@T.J. Kong Interesting. I used to watch Mentour but I honestly stopped because it is too produced for me. Stuffed with stock footage and overexplaining simple concepts. I very much enjoy Blancolirio. There seems to be some X-factor where once channels get to a certain size, they become difficult to watch. There are a handful of exceptions though. Some of the other big channels I actually enjoy are Safiya Nygaard, Matthias Wandel, Claire Saffitz, Rachel Maksy, Townsends, and Evan and Katelyn (recently their editing has become way too much though). But, I can only take that stuff in small doses. Mostly it is smaller channels. The sweet spot for the absolute best S-tier channels is probably in the 50k-200k range: PHAD (naturally), The Signal Path, Stefan Gotteswinter, Mariah Pattie. Sucks how the "algorithm" can make it hard to find such gems.
I have an iDash for my ‘18 Canyon 2.8l Duramax, I can tell you that NOx is always in single digits for sensor 2 when driving (for mine a 90-95% reduction is normal). For the quality warning I have found that if the vehicle is a daily driver it will clear 95% of the time running the test; the other 3% is either a NOx sensor or DEF injector, 2% is the pump. DEF can expire but even in hot climates that takes ~1 yr so is usually not a concern for daily drivers. Honestly I feel that the emissions parameters are too tight for the computer to throw a code; and the fact that it takes 15 cold starts to get rid of the code if everything is running normal again is a pain. So quick to throw a code on narrow parameters and difficult to get rid of the code is an issue.
It kind of makes you wonder if the owners of these newer diesel cars actually allow them to run the regen cycle when it trips normally. I've seen some of my tow truck operators cancel the regen process every so often because they don't want to or can't wait for it to complete. Then I get stuck having to run the regen process manually because the trucks end up speed limited. But cool stuff Ivan. I don't think I've ever seen a Chevy Cruze diesel.
Short trips and never getting a complete regen creates problem codes. You don’t see many Cruise diesels because they were $4000 extra on the base price.
@@jamesofallthings3684really? My brother in law has 165k on a 2014 and my 2015 runs great. A unicorn of a car and misunderstood, but not in junk yards. 60 mpg highway is not unheard of.
When I saw that fault code "Exhaust Fluid Quality Poor" I thought it was an April Fools joke until I realized it was a diesel. Expected to see "Blinker Fluid Low" next ! 🤣
In my 58 years on this earth I have owned 5 cars and I haven't ever had problems with any transmissions. Is it just me or is $6,000.00 a lot to pay for a transmission repair with just over 100,000 miles? It is probably just me. In your assessment of costs for this car, you forgot to mention that the fuel is about $1.00 more per gallon, Ivan. Great video!
Modern diesels suffer from urban driving, highway use vehicles are less prone due to reaching operating temperatures. The client may provide useful information when asked about their driving profile. Should the answer be mostly urban driving, suggest they take it on a maximum load highway drive once in a while.
I could be wrong, but I suspect a reduction in NOx without urea being injected is likely due to an ammonia slip converter being used as part of the scr system.
I have the same problem. I took my car to the James wood Chevrolet here In Denton Texas. They been trying to fix the problem for the last 6 months and still having the same issue. How is that possible that a Chevy Dealer that sell this cars, they cannot fixed it after 7 Months. I’m very disappointed with Chevy Dealers.
I have a 2014 Cruze Diesel that I bought new in October '14 - currently have 181,000 miles. DEF heater failed at 75k, replaced under (emissions) warranty. Timing belt at 100k as directed by the car. Nothing but fluid, filter and tire changes. Still has the original brake pads & rotors. Zero squeaks or rattles. January 2023, I get this message. I figured, I haven't spent anything on this car in almost 200k miles, so I fired the parts cannon. New upstream NOX, downstream NOX, injector. Total was about $600 at Rockauto for Genuine GM. Installed in less than an two hours. Super easy except the downstream NOX, gotta take off the whole aero panel underneath. Cleared all codes and drove 35 miles, all clear. I don't have a bi-directional scanner but I was reading 99ppm NOX1 and 0ppm NOX2 on my cheapo unit. One of those sensors had failed, still not sure which one. Still a great car, I love mine. Trifecta tune really wakes up the diesel and doesn't affect fuel economy. About the transmission... that little Aisin unit is a proven machine. Made by Toyota! They don't have a dipstick - maybe one of the cooler lines leaked out all of the ATF? Also, when the factory fluid is worn, they downshift ROUGH. Mine was rattling the change out of the cupholders in the 5-4 kickdown. Replaced fluid with expensive Amsoil stuff and it was back to smooth as butter again. I wonder if a shady shop sold your customer on a new trans when it just needed a fluid replacement.
Had this problem when they made this in school busses back in 2011. Problems first 3 year of manufacturing always. Had leaks, malfunctioning sending units and all kinds of broken stuff not covered by manufacturer we had to pay for to fix. Was all junk.
This is a common problem with this type of system , esp when dealing with short heat cycles , ( not fully warmed up ) the injector will develop a crust on the end , that restricts flow , and will set this and several other codes , Its always good practice to remove the injector and clean the tip with warm water and retest , we see this A LOT with units that idle for long periods , i know the SCR system is " new, different and scary " but once you understand it and use it properly "NO short trips " it as a rule is very reliable ,
So what you're saying is that we can't use our vehicles the way we need them due to a stupid design? If I don't use it, of course it's very reliable...
@@johnnyblue4799 No, what is being said is that if you bought a diesel for short trips, light loads and city driving…you bought the wrong tool for the job.
That's the real problem - these "fully environmental" diesels were designed for motorway, not city use. I have problems with my turbo-diesel CMax, due to predominantly short trips.
@@vg3430 While i 100% agree with you technically, that is not how these cars were marketed. These were saviors of the planet due to low fuel consumption according to the marketers.. Find a dealer that sold them that warned potential buyers that these were a poor choice for short trips...you wont. These cars were literally the greatest thing since sliced bread! How was a 31 year old secretary or dental assistant or office worker to know any different? Now those same marketers and governments are pushing hybrids and electrics as the NEW greatest idea since sliced bread. Many if not most subs to this channel have greater than average knowledge about vehicles and it is easy to forget that most of the buying public doesn't. The only advice I have is that the harder the government pushes, the more suspect we should be. It's enough to make you weep.
@@stevewhite3424 I agree completely with you. Alas…it’s the consumer’s responsibility to know what they’re buying. If a consumer relies solely on what a marketing department, salesperson or gov’t agency tells them, then unfortunately in the words of P.T. Barnum: “There’s a sucker born every minute.”
the reason it wasnt showing the same between sensors without def dosing is because it works the same as a regular cat converter without the def. and the nox sensors arent like o2 sensors they dont heat up fast and they dont start giving acurate readings until they hit much higher temperatures then readings will stabilize. also to raise tempurature there is a seperate injector for diesel that dumps extra fuel at the scr system to raise tempurates before def dosing occurs. also min. percentage is 73% efficiency to pass regen cycle on most vihicles so 80% is ok but not great. you want to see 90% or better ideally.
I'm so sad this week. I'm having to retire my 2014 Cruze Diesel that has about 200,000 mi. I'd made some slight changes to this vehicle to make it road worthy of driving on ranches and down ranch roads. IIt took me through college, farming jobs and multiple life changing road trips across the Southwest US. This car was such a great car and I'd buy another in a heartbeat. Sad sad that Chevy doesn't offer this any longer. Shame to the other auto makers for moving away from diesel cars.
Always lots of issues with DEF systems, even the fluid has a short shelf life. See a lot of problems with people not letting the Regen run, but have seen some issues with the injectors.
Thanks for the test to regen the system. Why can't the computer max out the injector every so often or at least before the speed limit count down to clean it? Need a Russian hack or Highway only.
Hi Ivan. On semi trucks, the engine computer would sometimes "derate" power due to the Diesel exhaust system particulate filter being clogged. The exhaust fluid system needed to "regen". So the poor driver would have to sit there with the engine at high idle for the system to burn off the the crud in the particulate filter before the computer would allow full power again. So maybe the Diesel Cruze was doing the same thing to clean its particulate filter?
Bingo, that’s what happened here. Owner interrupted an automatic regen too many times ( there’s no light on when regenning) and a forced regen like done here was required to fix the issue.
That DEF fluid is hygroscopic so keep the tank as full as possible with quality DEF in accordance with company specs. The quality test is that not just a regenerating cycle? As the car is only driven for short distances it never get the chance to regenerate the exhaust system.
On diesels you need to do high throttle and burn off sometimes foot that's in the exhaust system that's actually a very common that because you did the high throttle it actually cleaned it out finally
Yeah, but wait until the prohibit it for environmental reasons. Soon you'll probably have Low Emission Zones coming to your towns... In a few years I'll have to discard a very good, but older car, only because I won't be allowed to drive it in the city...
@@johnnyblue4799 that might happen i live in southeast alabama usa and out in the country hopefully will be a long time. i have enough parts to rebuild these vehicles several times i am 66 don't ever plan on buying another vehicle but will see how it goes
We gets this on our firetrucks with the Cummins engines and the first diagnostic step is beat on the DEF tank with a rubber mallet. lol Usually happens after filling the tank and for some reason if the quality sensor gets bubbles on it it will set this code. Cummins has set the parameters so tight in the ecm that it doesn't take much to set it.
@@salcas8190 Not really. The programming is such that is won't allow the truck to shut off or derate. It just throws the code. If you don't address it in a day or two it will cause an issue. It's more annoying than anything.
is it me or is there to much technology in cars today like the immortal mr scott said the more you overtech the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drain
One of those weird one off CEL gets commanded on, but puts the system into needs service mode. I guess the test basically lets the system stretch it’s legs. I don’t like those, just lose confidence in the vehicle, would almost Rather it be a dead NOX or control issue, at least you could “confirm” The fix
Good result, but a bit underwhelming :-) I was expecting a complex situation to solve, but it turned out to solve itself with the exhaust fluid test. I should have known, with a 16 minute video :-) BTW, I think Jessica V (below) has a good point.
Because manufacturing DPFs, DEF fluid, etc, and transporting all that stuff all over offsets the particles that come out of the diesel exhausts they go in... 🤦
In the UK, you’d be enjoying things like this daily as there are plenty of diesel cars over here with all these fun emission systems. Some of which have two different additives (AdBlue & Eolys) being added into the mix, along with a DPF for good measure 😝. Enjoy 😂
Don't use cheap Ad-Blue. It's causes more issues that it's worth. I suspect that the heat build up in the reductor and cleared the crud from the injector.
"Cheap Ad-Blue" is not real. Ad-Blue is a brand. You mean Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF). If the owner uses DEF from a company that meets the ISO standard, the DEF is correct for the vehicle. All DEF jugs and/or boxes will have the API required information. All other problems are the fault of the manufacture and they should have to pay for repairs.
@@phprofYT Sounds like these systems are unreliable enough that the whole cultural body of knowledge around them is akin to spells and superstition. Remind me to never buy a diesel.
Might not be enough flow of DEF. It's reducing by 80% when you're idling but only about a 50% reduction, sometimes even less, during the test when you were revving to 2500 RPM or so.
Our diesel cruze has done it twice in a couple trips of 100 miles the past couple weeks. It's at 100,000. I did what you did the first time and it set the codes within a week. Run the test again and it's been off for a couple weeks. I'm thinking that the downstream is possibly going bad. My duramax downstream failed after a couple of trys.
