This Is AI Cheating 

Blanket and duct tape was the best anticheat

​@@CronaTheAwperWhat if you are playing on 1 screen?

It's so simple to stop cheating. Make it so you have to link your personal ID to one and only one steam account for life. If you get caught cheating, you're permanently banned for life on the steam platform. Problem solved.

@@turkeyleg72 That was exactly the solution to playing on one screen though. Hide it right down the middle of the line.

@@norrecvizharan1177 Ok but I mean if you are playing on a TV siting far away from the screen

I remember going to a League of Legends internet cafe tournament for fun, but some dweeb literally couldn't contain his anger by the second match. I think he forgot where he was for a second because after a couple of matches of raging I stood up, walked to his chair and put my hand on his shoulder. I asked him "do you need to take a break, or are you going to leave the cafe?" and his eyes were wide as he turned to me and said "... Nah, it's fine...". Thankfully he was completely silent the rest of the tournament, but damn, do I often remember that and wish I could reach my hand through the screen at ragers and cheaters... Lots of people need real world consequences to actually give a fuck, sadly.

@@JoyThiefTheBand until the rager is bigger than you and you got to step back lol

you can still use that if you get the ip ;)

that very much does sound like CS to me though.

​@@TomJakobWactual zoomer

@@delroku the translation tho x'D

Well, try faceit

@@horyss5496 I tried playing faceit in SEA and I had 90 ping, legit unplayable for me. Ranked ladder was so so fun until 20k where cheaters were rampant that you don't even have to play the game to win, it's just 8-9 guys running around with scout and spinning on each other.

Call of duty mobile has that ‘feature’

@@negritotenfold how so, could you explain further

I think that would still be obvious, though. The people that use cheats are so bad, the AI prob wouldn't be able to make it look legit. It's still going to snap the reticle to the player.

@@nyssaalghoul5872 these bots are sliding around, weapon switching, quickscoping, planting bombs and executing. stuff ive never seen in previous seasons

@@hhaste in call of duty mobile people will automate their account. they can leave their account unattended for 72 hours and come back with diamond camos and a 6.00 kd

I hate it when games put bots into your matches and pretend to be real players. I'd still hate it if those were AI bots, but understanding how this tries to solve the issue of low player counts, that could be a good solution to keep dead multiplayer games alive for people who want to stick around.

@@Zure619 Is it worth it if the "player" youre playing against isnt even real? The main joy I get from multiplayer games is that I know I beat a real player, or played with a real person. Thats what makes me "believe" I am better than real people. But if I play against bots, it would be the same as when I was a child and thought I was better than the computer when I was playing NBA Live 97 on SNES.

That's true. It won't be for everyone. But if the tech gets far enough so that the AI actually plays reasonable, can simulate different elos and it's easy to implement, it might be worth it considering. Gives players a playground to train in without pressure and it can keep a dead multiplayer game playable. It's probably not a good fit for games like CS which require voice chat. But I think it could work well in arcade-like games like Star Wars Battlefront or other games which have a high player count per match. Or even RTS games and the AI could be set to play a specific playstyle so you can train your weak spots. Imo it has huge potential if it's applied correctly and not forced upon the players, but instead it's a feature you opt into.

Unless valve program bots to be racist and filled with hate, I'm pretty sure my opponents are real 😂

​@MethFace same, I quit eating and drinking water because if cheaters.

@@MethFace Ironically, they're doing you a favour

HELL YEAH!

HELL YEAH!

HELL YEAH!

HELL YEAH!

Indie games are the answer. I hope I'll bring my own to the table before the world ends.

@@unfa00 if i still had the patience id be playing them but tbh im probably just gonna sell my pc and buy a nice sound system for my car 😭

but at what cost

the same goes for cheats, right? ---- right?!!

*rejects windows update*

@@kishi8774after a quick search, kernel level access is needed to read ram data, so hypothetically it would make it hard for traditional cheats to work. But if it was something like a hardware cheat it’s not going to help because ram access is not needed

They will just workaround it to cheat meanwhile the anti cheat becomes useless ​@@kishi8774

It’s quite pathetic 25 years of experience down the loo

It sucks. But a little less when you realize It was a once-in-humanity era, and we got to experience it.

We gonna get drafted soon and back to our main quest as human, enjoy this peaceful era while it lasts

I still play quake for the rofls... pummels... haha... All score and no skill... all headshots and no combos... which ratio is best? The gauntlet! bwahahaha and Team assists sure... and flag caps... All the variables being added to the equation only increases the odds of another error. It really was best when it was simple.

@@vonxoliver Then we'll play FPS IRL.. just without respawns. Hardcore server vibes.

That will work at first but as cheat devs get used to using AI, they can just keep on developing and training new cheats that require more time to discover. This situation will continue to grow

@@muchluck7981 of course it’ll grow but right now it cost OpenAi $100 million usd to train gpt 4. GPT 3 was around 5 million. Following that trend, gpt 5 (if such a thing will ever exist) would cost like a billion usd just to train the model on a dataset. That’s disregarding the costs of turning the model into an application (chat bot in the case of gpt 3 and 4). And then they also have to host servers capable enough of handling the model and large amounts of traffic.

expensive? It's not. I made an ai cheat like this with only 900 images labeled by hand. Only to proof the concept, not using it.

wanted to add. the 900 images it's only for one game.

It's so simple to stop cheating. Make it so you have to link your personal ID to one and only one steam account for life. If you get caught cheating, you're permanently banned for life on the steam platform. Problem solved.

We’re an exclusive club - and you’re not in it

Cool, just gotta sideload a false positive on your opponents' computer to eliminate them forever.

surveillance is not the solution.

It's so simple to stop cheating. Make it so you have to link your personal ID to one and only one steam account for life. If you get caught cheating, you're permanently banned for life on the steam platform. Problem solved.

@thekatdev6007 Yea, but it does work and does limit a ton of stuff. There isnt going to be a perfect method to catch cheaters and keep them out thats going to work for everyone and every game. Thats the problem. Either tie it to something a bit more dear like your SSN. People willing to try to cheat with 3rd party applications will then be limited to SSN that they have access to - thus a few bans later they would be force to stop. While again still possible to get more SSN - you would at least slow down the cheaters ability to keep trying new accounts. Or tie it to some type of value - like having to purchase new accounts for x amount of money. Riot also did it with phone numbers - and while again - people do have access to more than one number, it did slow down the amount of accounts that were able to play in some of their more strick game play modes.

You can make it illegal without the surveillance. Cheat developers and hackers should be considered national economic threats. Games are the most lucrative part of the entertainment industry and symbiotically fuel the tech industry, allowing rampant cheating that is leading to a market crash is a national economic threat. If cheating doesn't get fixed eventually you wont be able to find a match without a cheater in any game which will lead people to quit gaming or cheat themselves. But because entertainment isn't holding up the economy the elites don't care they just like that they can make a lot of money from it. Also the games that make the most money are things like candy crush where cheating isn't an issue. Look at the state of wow and warzone which are filled with cheaters meanwhile microsoft buys activisionblizzard for candy crush and ignores the cheating in halo.

As if it was not possible le to sell/buy illegal good on the internet... Making something illegal does not make it impossible. It barely matters if the law is unenforcable, or if the cost of enforcing it is too high.

Great, more laws that are impossible to enforce and only make the one implementing the law gain some attention so they can further their own agendas.

The cheat providers will just make a new account on another site and keep spreading the cheats.

The only way to stop it is jail time/heavy fines for cheat developers making millions off of killing our hobby..

this turning into the war against drugs

I mean, they still make millions of dollars until that happens

because this will 100% get many many many innocent players banned lmao... especially higher rank players to professionals. auto banning good players is stupid

​@@Ke.442i think he moreso means an automatic statistical analysis of the account ADR and performance, which could actually be pretty effective. Companies like Valve have so much data and this is already an EXTREMELY trained field (think even prediciting an individuals trajectories in interests in social media), that they could probably make a pretty robust system to add suspicious accounts into Overwatch. Then, its up to human discretion

@@alvinbontuyan8083 thats what i ment yes ​ @Ke.442 - I didn't mean to ban people for a dirty-Bomb - but if someone has an ADR of lets say 300 or KPD of 5+ - add it to Overwatch and let a human decide...

If by illegal you mean the cheating, wouldn't that require a SIGNIFICANT amount of surveillance in order to actually punish offenders?

@@Nintega2K it wouldn't recquire more detection tools, just using the existing inefficient ones, but the people caught cheating being punished would deter way more casual cheaters and effectively reduce the population of kids that cheat. There will still be hardcore cheaters that can't be caught, but at least it wouldn't be something casual.

Then the cheaters trains the AI to reproduce the inputs perfectly again, and you got another VACNET false positive banwave incident. Only LANs can save us, and we've known that sinc Punkbuster. It is also the reason anticheats don't do statistical detection and usually just scan for the memory for known cheat signatures : even a human can reproduce a raging spinbot for 2 seconds with enough luck.

Which isn't something they can do, most cheater accounts in paid games are bought after the game is purchased on sale legitimately, and in these scenarios they've already made their money. Selling the account with a paid for licence to a cheater to use does not lose the company out of the second sale, and they already have profited off of the product they've chosen to sell.

@@Clarkzer0 I guess you could try to argue that in court but i dont know if it would hold up. They dont lock up the gun shop owner if one of his guns gets used by a customer. China think differently about it.

it should be fraud if they stream! making money of hacking is insane. twitch needs to crack down on it even though that must be awfully hard for them

And how did you plan to force Russia to hand out their hackers that does a good job making Americans upset?

By pretending to cheat I mean throwing my mouse across my desk and spinning ridiculously fast in spawn

valve did the bare minimum, they didn;t even try seriously

@@ragtag0 did they ever remove the ban?

I think it's adorably you think people who are just as bad as you and me aren't using cheats in silver ranked games.

@@PhoenixDog2160i think its pathetic that you think there are cheaters in low elo lobbies. I have seen maybe 10-15 actual cheaters in my 6-7k hours on competitive games even around mid elo. There are a shit ton of smurf but not many actual cheaters

@@PhoenixDog2160 if people are in the same lobbies as me and not moving up to high skill lobbies, even with cheats, then more power to them. Lord knows they need the help 😂😂

The first one is something they already do. Thats the idea behind the current anti-cheat. It scans in memory changes and applications. The other issue is most of these cheaters also know that and started to move the software off their computers and onto 3rd party system that does all the work anyways and taps into the mouse/keyboard to perform the actions. Though, in theory, they could force you to live-stream your hands keyboard/mouse and try to figure it out that way, but at that stage it would be pretty much be a game stopper there for the normal player. This would only work with pro+players who already are kind of doing that anyways.

By 2050 people will probably be controlling their mouse movements via neurolinks anyways

You do that, and you solve the cheater problem by not having any players in your game. It's completely pointless from the developer's perspective.

Understandable but impossible to implement. You'd have to get all of the ISPs on board (what's in it for them?) and who'd make sure you don't access the same computer again? Computers aren't centralized like iPhones are, and law enforcement certainly won't care.

@@krob_ Soooo... about the ISPs... Recently in the states I understand, the ISPs down there have been federally(?) ordered to start cracking down on any and all piracy related torrent sites, etc. Or, something along those lines. I don't know all the details yet, but magnetdl went down not too long after. Related? I dunno. Anyways, the point here is that the ISPs can be compelled to do as they are told, if we so wish. It just requires putting the proper leverage on them. And frankly, no one except cheaters likes cheaters; so this isn't a hard decision for them to make. Even if they get some bad PR due to privacy reasons, basically only the cheaters will care... and no one cares about them... except other cheaters... To put it another way... a stupid person has no right to a stupid opinion in a hall of knowledge. This is no different. Cheaters have no right to cheat. If anything, everyone else has a right to deny them the ability to cheat, even if that means taking away their toys entirely. So again, the ISPs basically have no reason to put up a fight over this. They would be very dumb to do so. And it wouldn't take federal levels of coercion either. Just would require basically everyone who uses these ISPs to sign a broad petition against all the ISPs saying that if they support cheaters, they will lose customers. This hits them where it hurts most, especially if their business customers sign on as well. Just gotta get people to work together. Probably the hardest part. Now as for the whole centralization of computers and that part of the reply. Yeah, I agree. That does make it somewhat difficult on some levels, since it makes it so that you cannot just group them all up and remove them all from the net. Not easily that is. But it can be done. With hardware ID's and other fingerprinting methods that anti-cheat methods will use to identify a known rig to have it hardware level banned is not a new thing. Xbox is able to do it, but mostly due to being a centralized service. I think Riot games also does it. But now it's mostly because you have their app installed and their anti-cheat software as well. So, if enough game developers started taking that approach with bans instead, eventually a repertoire of data would be able to be accumulated between them. This would make it possible to have a history of cheating being done by certain rigs over the course of different games they get banned from. This is important, because if a person gets banned once, they should be able to appeal that. Twice, sure, appeal again. Three times? Nah, you're clearly up to something. Or incredibly unlucky. If the latter, sorry, tough luck. Stop looking like a cheater I guess? With that data and methodology, a record of sorts could be kept that can be updated for the ISPs to see, to correlate hardware with IP addresses on their networks. From there, they can deny service on reasonable grounds of illegal activity. Some might say cheating is not illegal, but it goes against the ToS and EULA of many if not all games; and to some extent that does make it illegal. But, if this goes through, don't expect piracy to last much longer either. This will effectively sharpen the ISPs teeth in regards to other activities they know occur, but technically 'cannot' do anything about. They normally are supposed to remain neutral. But they are able to wiggle the line a bit as to what that neutrality entails. This helps them wiggle the line. They might fight at first, but if they do, let them fail. The rest will fall in line, or be replaced. Their networks, can be taken over justifiably if need be. Nationalizing the networks of the country these ISPs operate in, globally, is not impossible. They would cry blood if that were to be attempted though. All their useful idiots would come out in full force. But that's fine by me. Just makes it easier to remove more of the problems from the internet.

I know right. and all the devs know that there is no fullproof anticheat. if it runs in 1010101, it can be bypassed xD

Life is indeed magical

ngl i thought there would be people calling that communism and that its bad, but when its about cheaters in their videogames those fools are silent. thats actually even funnier

This is just silly and sounds like an argument that the cheaters themselves would use

@@ssj2_snake it's not silly or anything. It is what happening right now in real-world gaming. The more secure your game the more sophisticated the cheating software would be. The cheat devs would put time into developing it because of the demand. If there's a demand, there'll be cheat software. The op stated fact, it's a never-ending cycle. But atleast the game devs are trying their best to combat the cheat devs to make their life harder developing this cheat software.

Because if they aren't priority #1 we end up in a situation similar to TF2. You don't need to be a human to ragecheat, however you do need to be a a human (and be somewhat skilled at the game) to hide the fact that you are cheating. And ragecheating is relatively easy to automatically detect. An automated system handling ragecheaters results in overwatch being able to do its job again: Determine if someone is cheating with the help of human intervention. Cases of ragecheating don't need human intervention to determine whether something phishy is going on, yet overwatch was filled to the brim with such cases for years on end, resulting in closetcheaters having the time of their life because with overwatch being near useless and vac being... well a usermode anticheat their risk of getting banned were close to zero.

When they say indistinguishable, they don't mean in terms of accuracy. Rather, it's about the movement of the cursor. For example, if you try moving quickly in a straight line, you're not really moving in a straight line. It's more of an arch with jitters in between. Even if you're using a gamepad, it's similar. You can't perfectly keep an analog stick in one position. The same thing with aiming. When your crosshair lands on a person, one of two things happens. Either you slow down as you get close to the person, or you end up overshooting your target, and there's zigzagging back and forth before your crosshair actually lands on the player. Previous aimbots would just immediately go to the enemy perfectly. And that's how they were initially caught. The anti-cheat algorithms would look for perfection in movements. That's what's happening, and how the AI cheats got around these anti-cheat algorithms. They added in random imperfections. The AI will still perfectly land on you and kill you before you can respond, but it will be an imperfect path of landing on you. They'll still have their 20+ KDR, their 90% win rate, etc. But when you, or the anti-cheat algorithms look at the video, the aiming will look natural.

@@Nytegard What you're talking about doesn't require AI and has been around well before the recent AI trend. Near the end of Overwatch in CSGO, you'd see players who looked totally legit till there was one major mess up on their end, after that point they would turn blatant. Before that point, mouse movements would look totally naturally, no perfect flicks, minor over/under shoots etc.

@@aaymanbd The cheats might give you options, but the cheats are very much still robotic in nature when it comes to movement. And that's the point. They're at the point it's very difficult for humans to distinguish between what's real and fake, whereas they're blatantly obvious to an AI anti-cheat algorithm.