You may love or hate Talgo, but with its gauge-changing capability it's vital for Spain, though this comes at the expense of ride quality (pairs of single wheels don't do their job the same way as the bogies - and that's also why they must be hauled by locos instead of distributed power, which is probably also incompatible with single wheels). Your table was probably (even) more shaky because the seat in front of you looked unoccupied: some weight on it would stabilize it a little. What I don't understand are the Ryanairish seats in the 1st class (or whatever they call it). By the way, is this Talgo also tilting like the previous versions?
@@isgota I assume the S-107s will be deployed on routes with significant stretches of curvy classic track where tilt can have some time benefit, while still being able to keep up with the S-106s on the HS trunk lines.
WIth a conventional bogie/truck attachment point in the centre of its wheelbase, when one wheel drops into a short 1mm depression on the railhead the car body only drops half that as the truck pivots vertically on its other axle. With Talgo tech the car body experiences the full extent of the irregularity. Perhaps one day they'll smooth it out with active suspension. The video didn't mention the 100% level floor throughout the passenger accommodation, with level boarding at every public door from 760mm platforms, standard on Spanish HS lines. This is also enabled by Talgo tech which not only avoids bogies (except end cars and power heads), but uses independently suspended wheels on little stub axles rather than conventional wheelsets linked by axles. The floor of the inter-car passageway actually passes between the tops of the wheel discs. Talgo claims they can also build this train for level boarding at 550mm platforms, again with continuous low floor throughout. Alstom are also sticking with end power car configuration, after their AGV didn't appeal to SNCF. The manufacturer now claims centralisation of the lightweight modern traction equipment is substantially cheaper than distributed throughout the train. It is lighter overall, far less complex, easier to maintain and thus more reliable, they say. Other companies like Stadler have concentrated traction equipment into specific areas on a small number of cars, in some of their designs mostly in the pursuit of continuous low floors along as much of the train as possible.
Considering that, except the fully high speed lines, all remaining railways in Spain are in shambles and train services are practically non-existent, it just doesn't make sense that they decided to build the Northern high speed lines in Iberian gauge... (They were literally built from scratch). It sounds more like they did so to prevent French or Italian competition, since they won't likely invest in Talgo trains (which suck) just to run less profitable services to the North
First hand experience from yesterday evening: I used the Avril Avlo service from Zaragoza to Madrid. Uneventful and pleasant trip. Noise and shaking similar to that of the S130s, nothing extraordinary or too bad. Seats are a bit narrow and hard, they are the same model installed on other Avlo models. They are perfectly ok for a low-cost service under 2 hours. The interior is nice and the train is roomy and well distributed. Overall, a modern high capacity , high speed train which is ideal for low cost services and trips under 3 hours (the majority in Spain). Honestly, I don’t understand why so much drama around this train. All Avrils will end up as Avlos eventually, when the new S-107 series (300 kmhr, gauge-changing narrow cabin "normal" Talgos) are delivered. Spanish Northwestern corridors and services into Portugal are going to need gauge-changing HSTs for several decades.
Im sitting in the train wating to LITERALLY CRY reading this.... this are the absolute WORST seats Ive ever placed my bottoms at... I am sweating with anxiety.. the pain is 100% unbearable
19:19 the train that you see from the windows and also in Gijon are narrow gauge (1000mm). The north of Spain truly is a blend of gauges, sadly these lines do not experience much investment so they are bad (although scenic) regional trains and barely good enough commuter trains. The green train at Oviedo is a tourist luxury service, Transcantabrico or Costa Verde Express
Used the Euskotren & FEVE network in Northern Spain. Travelling from Bilbao to Santander our train stopped at a station & the driver told us we were going no further as he had to take the train back to Bilbao as the train from Santander had been cancelled. We had to get on a minibus that appeared from nowhere, calling at every station until we arrived at a station in the Santander commuter network where we were told to get on another train to complete our journey. It was quite an adventure...
@@markellis6413 for you it's an adventure. For us who need to use those trains, it's a nightmare. Spain only invests in high speed (and not even properly as this video proved). It's a mess.
All the internal configuration depends on the operator, so LeTrain will configure it however it wants, I suppose it will look for its optimal layout for its market. Furthermore, it will not use the variable gauge version, so it will surely be very different in terms of suspension elements, etc. As for the ride quality, it is famous in the Talgos, but that train is the first version of the new evolution of the Avril cars. So I guess they will improve. Renfe on the high speed lines to the north is desperate to be able to complete the demand. So it is being searched *and this is the ONLY one that can do it given the specialty of changing gauge. There are no other builders in the world capable of fulfilling that contract, not even CAF. In any case, something that must be mentioned, the concept of the Talgo is that they are very light and they are really low cars, so any imperfection on the tracks may be more noticeable. The Avril is positioned as the most efficient high-speed train in the world. (If I remember correctly, it weighs less than 80-100 tons than a single floor TGV, that's a lot). ps: I forgot to mention, there is another train/operator with a 3+2 configuration in its second class, the Shinkansen, and for many many years. And for the same reason, capacity is sought, and this is achieved by making wider cars.
@@thomasmeyer1408 They always forget xD. But they really like that they don't have steps when entering, etc. By the way, the most accessible high-speed train on the eu market.
I’d like to know if these energy efficiency stats come from actually using less energy or since they can cram more people in them with the 3+2 seating and claim a greater energy efficiency per head stat. Just a little wary.
@@Konkacha No it's an advantage of the Talgo technology. The older Talgo 350 (Renfe S-102/112) was already the most energy-efficient HS train in the world, but it has no extra seating.
El vuelo de balasto o proyección de balasto (ballast pick-up o ballast flight/flying en inglés y Schotterflug en alemán) es un fenómeno de origen aerodinámico que consiste en la succión de los granos de balasto por el tren y en su proyección hacia los bajos o hacia los laterales de la vía. Ello puede provocar daños en el material rodante, en la infraestructura (postes, armarios eléctricos, túneles, etc.) e incluso puede suponer un riesgo para los viajeros, ya que algunos granos pueden rebotar en los elementos de la infraestructura y golpear las ventanillas de los coches.
Merci! A great video, very informative. Talgo technology has proved to be the only answer for high speed trains to the gauge diversity in the Iberian peninsula so despite its other shortcomings it will be a great success there. It will supposedly also be commercially competitive and a smoother ride on European single gauge track. So basically it will prove a great success for Avril and Renfe.
No other vendor makes 300kphr gauge-switching trains. It's Talgo or nothing for the northwestern corridors. So no, Ouigo TVGs are not "top competition" as they can't change gauge, something that is going to be needed for many years in several Spanish lines or if you want to run services into Portugal.
CAF offers also gauge switching systems. Moreover Siemens has one pending tests that Adif and Spains Government do not approve (wonder why…). So then no, Talgo is not the only option. These sets were bought due to its price, almost 15mill cheaper, but that’s how renfe works, cheap above quality. It would have been great to see some Velaros or even Oaris from CAF speeding through these lines
@@antoniolongas5456 CAF doesn't have a 300kmhr gauge-changing train. The Oaris is just a fancy prototype. In any case, Alstom doesn't have anything like this, therefore Ouigo can not be "top competion" (as labelled in the video) in most Spanish lines.
@@BobelSilencioso-g2i my reply wasn’t labeling ouigo or alstom. Regarding CAF, it is not just a fancy prototype. It is an actual train on sale. You are a clear Talgo fan, fair enough. But that doesn’t mean Talgo is great. They actually did a decent job with the 102 and 112. But seriously this is a tremendous failure. Do not care it wasn’t supposed to be a flagship train but just a workhorse… however, things can be done differently right? Anyways, good to have an increment in offer to some points of Spain
@@antoniolongas5456 Sorry but the CAF Oaris prototype (Renfe S-105) seems to have been sold to ADIF as track testing train and the only one sold to date it's a downpowered one (250 km/h max) in Norway.
@@isgota did i say anything different? It is just a MODEL CURRENTLY ON SALE, and actually the oaris presented to Renfe was a modified one based on that exact model.
Yes, they are going to build a big fucking station and huge park with the beach of the tracks buried underground. It will be impressive when they finish.
One thing th tsome folks haven't comented on is the track. Track quality can affect ride quality. I appreciate that Talgo's have a bad reputation for ride quality, though my few expereinces (DB 'Nachtzug') were comfortable enough. The seat-back info/entertainment screen strikes me as a 'take it or leave it' scenario. The less charitable might compare (unfairly) with British-built Hitachi class 800 series seats - hard as 'ironing-boards'! I like the look of these new Avril train sets. They may need refinement over time, but methinks they're here for the 'long haul' (no pun fully intended!!).
You're right; those seats did remind me of the Hitachi seats, but at least these Talgo seats still have space between each passenger (the Hitachi seats are so cramped, legs awkwardly touching 😅). I'm shocked that even with such new tracks, the shaking looked BAD.
These seats are bad, but the Hitachi seats are even worse in my opinion. Not only are they more cramped, the back of the seat is completely vertical too. I travelled from London to Bristol, I was tired and tried to take a nap as I usually do on trains, but it was absolutely impossible to find a relaxing posture.
The impression i got of this train is that if they changed the seats out for more plush ones and made comfort class have 3 seats per row instead of 4, it could have a much better riding experience. And who knows, maybe the extra weight from a more plush seat would help make the table less shaky
Looks decent to me, the space between seats is awesome, wish it was like this on a plane:) Greetings from Czech rep, country with 0 high speed rails, oh well :) Yet seems Talgo will be very soon in Czech hands, so fingers crossed things will start moving here too
It was a big challenge for Alstom to make the double deck TGVs. SCNF wanted extra capacitry and got it via Duplex. Since the bogies between cars have 2 axles, Alstom has a bit more flexibility on weight of each car. But for Talgo, with single axle between cars, it can't go "Duplex" as it would be too heavy on the bogie, so they widened it to allow 3+2 to please accountants who care only about how many tickers sold and not interested in whether passengers like it or now. When you have a monopoly on a route that requires gauge changing, you can afford to make coach seating bad since you won't lose passengers to a competitor.
1:05 Madrid Chamartín is going thougth some works now to be expanded and have a nicer terminal you see it in the worst state!!! Hophully if you come back is gona look diferent (:. I do think the Avril will be good adition to Renfe fleet as it will provide more seats for congested routes and recolated other roling stock on other routes. However as you point out the Avril is not free from Trouble the seats are like that because when ordered the directors of Renfe at the time went cheep and now where paying the price for their poor destions. I do hope the seats does get enougth critics so Renfe directors can relize their mistake (hophully not to late). Idk if the S106 migth be a bit bumpier than S130 as it uses a diferent suspension but oh well. As for why Renfe decided to have 3 +2 seting its simple because of France verry expensive track fees so to have similar capacity SNCF TGV Duplex the S106 and they can take more advatage of the prices they pay that why the S106 have 3+2. I do hope the S107 (With Ex TrenHotel Talgo VII sets) will be much better while having the same powercar as the S106 is a totally diferent train think it as TGV POS but in Spain. Congrats on your video (:
Dearie me I thought it was Friday already thibault, 😊 great post don’t think I’d like all that shaking though for those who get travel sickness it’d be a nightmare
Las causas Cuando un tren viaja a una velocidad elevada produce entre sus bajos y la vía una elevada carga aerodinámica de succión, la cual es capaz de arrancar y hacer volar los granos de balasto por encima de una determinada velocidad del tren. Esta velocidad, denominada velocidad crítica, se sitúa en el entorno de los 300 km/h, si bien puede reducirse bajo determinadas condiciones. Para comprender bien por qué se produce el vuelo de balasto es necesario realizar un sencillo análisis de las fuerzas que actúan sobre una partícula de balasto. Estas fuerzas son las que siguen
20:00 gains 12 min vs s120/130 cause tracks north of León are not 100% functioning yet. Most of them are limited to 200km/h and some parts are yet under construction. These tunnels save about 1h from León to Pola de lena in Asturias.
3+2 seating in Second Class and 2+2 in First Class is completely okay... if the train is wide enough for it. At 320 cm wide, I think they're too narrow to do that. The Shinkansen trains are 336 to 338 cm wide, and they can get away with it. But that's almost 20 cm wider, or 4 centimeters per person, which is quite significant. Add to that the bumpy ride and uncomfortable seats, and yeah... not exactly an amazing product. On the other hand, more seats in the width does also seem to translate to better seat pitch, and as a tall but slender person, I would actually prefer that!
Merci Thibault pour ce « trip-report » au plus près de l’actualité!!! Bravo également pour le montage rapide de la vidéo!!! 😮 Lors de mon Erasmus en 2004, j’ai fait un trajet Madrid-Alicante en Talgo via la ligne classique (on était loin de parler de LGV a l’époque): une locomotive 252 et des voitures Talgo IV… et même une fourgon porte-autos entre la 252 et les voitures Talgo (une autre époque!). Bref… déjà à l’époque à 200km/h le confort m’avait semblé… hyper-inconfortable, impossible de dormir la tête contre la vitre!!! 😢
This train truly brings mental debate whether it’s good or bad : You wanna like the train but you can’t (for some reason) _AND_ you wanna hate the train but you can’t! (for many other reasons) I really can’t decide, can I?
One final note: I noticed that even the table seats in standard class have those entertainment screens, protruding like a sore thumb and eating useful space. The S106 seems to be a "greatest hits" of all of the bad things RENFE thinks are good in railways: capacity at all costs, terrible seats, gimmicky stuff all over the place, etc. Sure, it can run up to 330km/h, but with that ride quality? (And offering earplugs on a train? Never seen that before. I wonder why...) It's impressive how fast you managed to put this video out, Thibault! It's also one of your best ones. Great work.
Although the critisism is understandable, these train makes perfectly sense as Renfe where desperately in need of a highspeed train that can change from standard to 1520 and Iberirian 1610 gauge as the previous rolling stock were dated, less capacity despide the extreme high demands and limited to 250km/h. These trainset are the first in the world capable of doing that while going 330km/h. More so these train will be improved as the train should have been running in early 2016 but yeah delays. Also
Yea, and it's especially weird since the capacity thing could've been dealt with by making a double decker train instead, Spain has the gauge capacity for it! But Renfe and Talgo went for a single decker because it was the easier way out and they could cram people in more "efficiently"
True, but Japanese trains would have to change from 1435 mm to 1067 mm, it's a far greater change than 1435 to 1668 (368 mm vs 233) and therefore more difficult to attain. Also 1067 is too narrow to operate trains at these high speeds, the train would be too unstable
I travelled yesterday in one of these trains and they are no as bad as you describe. May be, the seats are a bit hard or 3+2 configurarion is not the best, but they are good trains, much better than 130/730 for sure. I did the trip from Madrid to Santiago on board an Alvia 730 and the opposite in a 106 and I prefer, by far, 106.
These seats are… something. They are way too thin for a normal long distance service, let alone the first class of a HIGH SPEED TRAIN. I would kinda get it if it was something like “premium economy/turista plus” and then feature another first class with 2+1 and a thicker seat. Also that colour does them no favour. I would propose running them as Avlo on Barcelona-Madrid line or some other busier lines like Madrid-Valencia due to their immense capacity. The only AVE services I would keep with them running would be these cross gauge routes, but also something that isn’t AVE, but would work with Avrils is Barcelona-Valencia.
@@hermenegildoc3933 They will be used on future services to France, which do not change gauges. Also i am sure that they will not be used by gauge changing services only, given the fact that they ordered 30 of them
I will never understand why so many modern trains are going for airplane style ironing board seats, one of the reasons I like the train (at least here in the U.S.) is the seats are far more comfortable for the price in comparison to a plane.
j'adore les tgv espagnole ce que m'ont appris cette video cette ecran tactile sur les siege et vraiment les paysage sont epoustouflant merci simply railway
Big yikes at that part where train felt it was rounding that curve too fast, you'd think Renfe learned its lesson after Santiago de Compostela. Just an aside and i could be wrong, but that greenish passenger train at Oviedo could be the Transcantábrico, Renfe's seasonal luxury train running on the northern meter gauge network.
Buenas, ¿A nadie se le ha ocurrido pensar que gran parte del las vibraciones pueden deberse al mal estado de la vía? Hace unas semanas realicé un viaje de jornada entre Madrid y Zaragoza. Viaje en Iryo, Serie 109, Frecciarossa1000, a la ida y en Ave, serie 112 en el regreso. Los dos trenes se movían y oscilaban. Personalmente, la sensación que tuve es que Iryo era más silencioso y los movimientos no tan bruscos, pero las vibraciones y los movimientos estaban en los dos trenes. De todos modos, creo que todo el mundo acepta que Talgo tiene una menor calidad en el confort de marcha, y esto es así por la propia concepción del diseño del tren. Las ruedas libres, sin ejes, y no montadas en bogies hace que el sistema no sea capaz de absorber las irregularidades de la vía tan eficazmente como otros sistemas de rodaje. A cambio tenemos trenes accesibles, de piso bajo en toda la composición. Ligeros, que no maltratan el carril y capaces de pendular y cambiar de ancho de vía... Escoger un modelo de tren u otro dependerá de las necesidades del servicio y de la empresa explotadora...
Tiene pinta de que es una mezcla de ambos. Durante la fase de pruebas los trenes de rodadura desplazable (los que pueden alternar entre ancho internacional e ibérico) ya daban problemas de sobrecalentamiento en ejes, al igual que en el cambio de tensión entre 25000V CA y 3000V CC (Pero como es Renfe, pues...), no me extrañaría que estas cosas las hubieran dejado pasar. Por el otro lado los trenes de rodadura fija (solo ancho estandar) no estan dando problemas de vibracion, por lo que veo en videos.
Do you think the vibration of the cars is due to its lightweight design or the fact that the bogies must transition between standard/iberian gauge and where there would be structural reinforcement to make the ride smoother, there isnt any, because the trains design uses that space between the cars to expand/ contract gauge width?
I wonder if the lack of comfort on this train is partly due to the special bogey configurations necessary for the gauge changing "trick" that Talgo can do?
on the 25 minute stop: normal for a new train but usually, problems surface after first days of service not on the very first day 😞. on 3+2 config: terrible. bigger question is whether others will follow like happened to 777 and 787 airplanes or Renfe will see people avoid those trains and revert to 2-2. on suspension: This is _apparently_ very light train with carbon fibre bogies (unless during development they reverted to steel bogies). But the bogies APPEAR to still be single axle between cars. (like the Turbo train we had in Canada in 1970s). A 2 axle bogie will halve the "bump" that each wheel/axle feels (but double the number of bumps). But it is much easier for suspension to suppress 2 small bumps vs 1 larger bump. And the gauge changing may also make it harder to dampen left/right motion. Would have expected that having a perfectly smooth ride was a technical requirement at 300kmh since at that speed, taking a bump the wrong way might cause the train to be launched into orbit around the planet. Apparentrly they sold to Le Train and hope to sell to other countries i Europe. Curious how the wider carriages will fit in various stations. Can understand how it can negotiate curves with wider but shorter cars, but it still needs to fit in a station with platforms.
personally, i think those shakes add to the whole experience of high speed. i have those on ex-Thalys trains at 300km/h and I love that. for me, if no shakes, no excitement... i wouldn't want it to levitate. 😂 for that, we have planes.. sort of.🤣
Hello. Yes, Chamartín is undergoing a thorough and complete refurbishment. Just a quick note to improve the information on your video: iryo is owned by a Spanish company, ILSA, and Trenitalia has a share of 45 %, so it is not an Italian company as such. At some points, you should try and be more accurate in the information you provide on your videos. I've also noticed you have been more keen and prone to show the possible weak aspects of this Talgo train; I wonder whether it would be so too in the case of an Alstom train... By the way, the ride quality depends a lot on the tracks quality, not on the train itself.
On the 16th May the AVE S106 (AVRIL) trains were first to run from Madrid to Galicia. Oscar Puente, the Minster de Transportes y Movilidad Sostenible here in Spain tweeted that he took the train at up to300KPH to A Coruña . He did not say exactly how long on this trip it maintained this speed. The route in Galicia is already has a speed limit to to the horrific train crash at Angrois in 2013. So far there have been two trains which have broken down in Galicia on this route.
Wonder how ride quality is affected by the gauge-changing technology. Also since it's new, maybe it needs some warm-up? I really liked the interior design!
A 3+2 Layout on a supposed premium product is just sad (even in 2nd class). 2+2 in 1st class isn't great either. It's a shame that little bit of extra width went towards capacity rather than comfort. The seats look very thinly padded and uncomfortable too. Might be fine on a regional train, but a high-speed long distance train? Coupled with the ride quality issues you pointed out this really does not look like a good experience. It also makes me a bit nervous about the German ICE developed by Talgo. I hope that one is a bit less shaky. 😬
Hopefully the new ICE L from Talgo for the DB in Germany will be better. Otherwise the DB should buy the ICE trains always from Siemens. These trains are good
El Talgo Avril is very nice and good train because the floor of train is on the same level as the platform. The author said the Talgo Avril is shaky. Thisis not correct. The TGY and the Siemens trains are also shaku. The problem is the condition of the track.
The problem of the Avril is it's delays. When planned, Renfe haven't any competition and many corridors were at full capacity without possibilities of more services because the lack of trains. It's a concept of train for 4-5 years ago, before competition started. Talgo rattling is a classic... I only wish they have improved the pressurization inside the coaches (I have an Avlo trip in 3 weeks and it would be an Avril... as my seat reservation is 6E). Suspension and wheel (rodal) mechanism is very different in fixed gauge than changing gauge so the fixed ones will be slightly comfortable than the dual gauge ones. But it has to be tested... Chamartín now is a completely mess. It's in a huuge plan of renovation and expansion, with enginering works in the next years.
Chamartin station is in fact undergoing huge renovations as it is part of the “Madrid Nuevo Norte” macro project. In 10 years time, it will be Spain’s most modern station and a connection hub for trains bound for northern Spain, as well as transforming into one of the biggest stations in all of Europe. It is exciting and interesting to see these massive updates for Madrid and Spain’s second most important station, behind Atocha, and it is yet to be seen if it will transform into a modern state of the art station at it is planned.
Instead of those entertainment screens, they should just offer Wifi on the train with the possibility to access some content. A camera on each locomotive, similar to modern planes, would be cool imo.
i think the point being made was they should have streamed entertainment via the onboard wifi to people's personal electronic devices, rather than providing it via installed hardware (i.e. seatback video screens)
I was higly expecting your review on this train!!!! Thanks a lot! :D Also yes, TALGO trains have always been quite bad when it comes to ride comfort at high speeds, S-102/112 and S-130 are a great example of that. The S-130 is quite nice once out in iberian gauge and lower speeds.
I wonder if this train can actually change voltages and gauge which is what its predecessor model S130 S730 can do. Very impressive trip report 1:44 looks like the destination board has services that use the tunnel between high-speed stations in Madrid 8:44 cab display for German and Austrian high-speed trains Zwangsbremsung
Some of them can change gauges, and some other have a fixed gauge (international), all can change between voltages, and specially those that will be destinated to France services
@DIASDEMUSICA thank you for telling me about that and I wonder if they can combine voltage and variable gauge change with International services. That way this Spanish high-speed train can replicate what its predecessors the unpowered Talgo sleeper trains did
Valiendo 5 veces menos, estos vienen a sustituir a los Avant y Alvia, la verdad que es un gran avance y mas los de bajo coste, lo bueno de estos trenes, no el AVE que también se puede conseguir precios muy buenos, el AVLO, se puede conseguir precios que creo no existen en ningún tren de alta velocidad de otros países.
La gente opina mucho sin saber como fueron diseñados los trenes. Independiente que se configuro como más lujo o no, la calidad de rodadura el confort la velocidad en las vías AVE, ancho standard, deberían estar mas que comprobadas. El Avril es innovador en la configuración del eje de rueda. Da su nombre de echo. Que no estén a la altura que se espera en el servicio no es una característica de su diseño mas bien algo que no se ha ejecutado correctamente. Talgo y Renfe deberían tener en cuenta si puedes dar un servicio como se espera de ellos, y con los máximos estándares de seguridad y fiabilidad. Pero independientemente que sea caballo de batalla o servicios premium es un tren nuevo que se espera esté al nivel. Y parece que no es así. Ni siquiera este es el modelo del primer diseño Avril. Por otra parte no tiene sentido diseñar alta velocidad en dos anchos. Bajo mi punto de vista.
Well... people say that the IETs and Azumas in the UK ride badly. The Talgo AVRIL certainly tops it's! 😅 As for the 2+2 in first and 3+2 in standard, if the seats were of a better quality comfort wise then they would be expectable on AVE.
2+3 in Standard I can live with, but first should always offer 1+2 at least. The 2+2 cabin should be used for a premium economy product, or in the best case scenario just the standard class.
are there any plans of improving? oh i don't know. the HUGE works that was happening side by side with the entrance door ,that you need to pass trought to get to that door,and that would been on camera if you just turn it a few degrees didn't say nothing to you about this topic?
This train took AGES to develop and I'm glad to see it finally in service. But I think ultimately it was a bad choice by renfe to get these. Surely they are impressive trains, with variable gauge, max speed of 330km/h etc. but pushing the technology to the limits doesn't come cheap: these trains cost as much as the new TGV M high speed trains!(actually a couple millions more). That's nuts considering TGV M are double deckers! The max speed of 330 km/h was also totally unnecessary. They should have instead aimed at efficiency! The tgv M for instance has a max speed of 320 km/h and is optimized for 300 km/h speeds. On the other hand I do appreciate the choice of PUSH-PULL instead of EMU, which are more expensive to maintain. In this new era efficiency is key so...
The design looks neat but those bad seats and the excessive noise really needs to be adressed. As well as the ride quality. I know that can vary a lot depending on the track for Talgo trains but this seems really subpar. I can only hope non- gauge changing versions will be more stable and less noisy. And I do hope the lower speed Talgo230 trains for DSB and Deutsche Bahn will be better when they eventually enter service.
I have been to Madrid-Charmatin in March and it was horrific. I was doing Interrail (which sucks in Spain) and it was my first time in Madrid. Certainly not a good first impression of the city because lord or lord that place is miserable. Coming from Germany, I thought I knew how bad train stations could get but this was something else. Sure there was a construction site which never helps but it is more or less an isolated building which looks bad, has WAY too little seating to accommodate for their stupid way of train boarding and it is encapsulated in a multi story parking lot. Getting there by foot not only really sucks but it is such an ugly journey too. It really blew me away by how insanely terrible this station is on so many aspects. Took me days to process the suffering.
I wonder, is there really enough luggage space for a long-distance train ? If the economy class was full, i doubt there would be enough storage... It's already bad on a Thalys/eurostar with 2+2 layout... And the shaky thing is really a problem, if it shakes even at 220 kmh. Several years ago we rode on the LGV2 (Leuven-Liège in Belgium) in a regular train, I11 coaches, at 200kmh the train felt like it wasn't moving at all.
4 месяца назад
Interesting. I don't like the android tablets on the tables, but they're fine in the seats. You were saying that RENFE wants to use these in France against SNCF and Trenitalia. Does this mean Trenitalia wants to join the France-Spain hsl route too?
that looks the same shaly travel i was getting on the ETR600 frecciargento in Italy on normal lines. ATR 470 too had this feeling and I was told that time that it was because the tilting system had been removed. Anyhow, might it be in this case because of this technology on the bogey that it allows it to run on different gauges?
Why don't you show the trip in 2nd class? Let's say the ticket was cheap, if you bought it on the day of departure or the day before, how much does it cost? What you are showing us is as if you are comparing a Low Cost flight and one in Business class with... Lufthansa or Emirates.
Good video! I will take the new s106 Avril service in low cost service (Avlo) on 12/6 from Barcelona to Lleida and back. And i hope will take Avlo s106 Madrid-Valencia and AVE s106 Madrid-Asturias and Madrid-Galicia in October
The interior was designed by accountants, not with the passengers in mind. That with Talgo's continuing infamous poor ride quality seen here and design, is going to be interesting to say the least to see how this will age 😶. Gauge changing is great for Spain (the tradeoff is heavy though)!
The trade off isn't just gauge changing, but also considerably lighter vehicles which makes them very energy efficient. Spain are masters at providing huge amounts of new rail at astonishingly good value. I really wish the UK government had contracted the Spanish to build HS2
Station is under refurbishment. At the end of the video, you claim for the conditions of the train. The line is in bad conservation. PD: Enjoy Asturias.
