I recently bought this same saw and they sent me the same faulty Chinese motor. I called Ellis and told them I wanted the lesson motor that is supposed to be on the saw and they sent me the right motor. Works great now! They told me they are having a hard time sourcing the lesson motor so they are sending this Chinese motor that is supposed to be “better” on the majority of the saws they are sending out. Ask Ellis to send you a lesson motor!
Blah blah blah supply Chain blah blah. I get it. But why tarnish their reputation? Sure customers eventually get the cut they want but they're ALWAYS going to hesitate when they turn the saw on, thinking "Is today the day the motor goes up in smoke?". What they should be doing is to honestly say "Customer, we're sending you a saw we're not 100% proud of and we'll make it better when we can. Until then, thanks for being patient."
Jordan if you don't mind us asking, how long ago was it you were able to get the Leeson motor from them? We're wondering if they still have any available at this point, because otherwise why send us the exact same motor again?
Two months ago. When I talked to Ellis I specifically asked them to send me the lesson motor. I told them the main reason I bought the saw was that it had the lesson motor. I feel your pain! It really is a great saw when you have a good motor. They are getting the lesson motors just not enough to fill all orders.
To be honest about it, there are excellent Chinese motors, and cheap Chinese motors. $150 for that motor isn’t expensive. Good ones cost over $200, often well over.
Tell Ellis to send a tech, or 2, to you. At no charge. If they solve the problem, take them over to the Brewery. If they don't fix it....then since they are on site...they can crate it and arrange return shipping. AWESOME CHANNEL by the way. great work
The problem is being caused by the Motor starting circuit. The contactor has a 240 volt coil instead of a 120 volt. Contactor is located in the box behind the plug. Witnessed this exact behavior on an Ellis wired for 240 volts that had been plugged in to a 20 amp 120 outlet
I’m thinking it could be the starting and E-Stop circuit in the saw itself. Try plugging in the motor to an outlet or extension cord directly (being super duper safe of course, double rubber, safety squints and mom on speed dial - AvE) see if the motor surges like previously. If no then it’s something in the saw control path: buttons, relays, wires, contacts. If yes then motor is the problem. Thanks for the awesome video Tay and Wyatt! I love this channel ❤
From what I see in the video he didn't try all the easy / free stuff before throwing parts at the saw and complaining to support. I'm wondering about that outlet on the saw and what else power goes through before it gets to the motor ( any sort of cap or regulation or draw). Also if the saw has its own braking system maybe its sticking until it gets moving. I was wondering if something in the saw is broken/misaligned/dirty/flawed too. Could remove the blade and try after figuring out its not the electric motor. You're going to figure it out and have that "aha" moment. Hopefully something simple. I appreciate the transparency and the realism in the video but its not very informative or helpful like lots of your other videos.
@@hondaracer3726 You mean it wasn't informative enough for you to see what a junk electric motor looks like, behaves like, vibrates like and sounds like" Come on, really? I believe that if your Honda racing motor was vibrating like that when running you would know something is wrong, Right? The metal to metal noise? Sorry, that was the exact way to see a product evaluated. Including the replacement motor that was just as bad.
@@roberta4989 he did not prove the motor by itself plugged in the wall starts slow then speeds up. I'm not sure where you get that from. Maybe I missed it It's a 1hp electric motor from what I saw on the label that can pretty much run at any voltage You would rather watch a video like that than how to frame up and make a set of metal railings with skills like math, welding, and tools?
Agreed, I wonder what would happen if you plugged the motor directly into the extension cord and not into the outlet directly below the motor. That would rule out any electrical circuits outside the motor. Good luck figuring it out. Seems like there are two issues. A power supply problem and also a vibration issue with the new motor. Wonder if the motor was dropped during assembly?
i always laugh at folks that say "don't use an extension cord!" as if running the same 50' of wire in the wall to an outlet beside the machine would behave any differently... sure, you don't want to use a crappy 16ga two prong indoor light duty extension for shop tools, but if it's a decent extension, it's gonna work fine.
It’s like running your car without oil and complaining the motor is knocking then putting oil the engine and saying see it’s got oil now and it’s still knocking ... quit telling me it’s because it didn’t have oil. Same thing as the stupid argument over the outlet. He destroyed the first motor with the extension cord then after it was trashed tested in the outlet with the exact same result... because the motor was abused. I personally believe he tested the new on an extension cord prior to the clip we see at the outlet. But amperage draw and voltage drop still happens on a daisy chained outlet
@ChrisS-oo6fl you won't burn up motors using extension cords however you can burn up cords. And he also plugged the new one into a outlet for a first start. That big black lump on the motor is a capacitor and it stores power and is supposed to dump it into the motor when you turn it on and the cheap chinese motor he keeps buying is having some sort of problem with the capacitor.
Can you please check if the problem goes away with the drive belt removed? And can you try it with the drive belt on the smallest diameter of the motor pulley? Thanks.
I've had my 1800 for about the same and everything has been top notch! I hope this isn't the trend they will be doing and this is a temporary supply chain problem.
I've been a machinist for over 30 years sometimes you just have to do what you have to do, especially when things aren't built correctly. And remember everything has a hammer side. Using the extension cord is fine as long as it is a heavier gauge wire than what you have from the wall and everything should be fine just remember over distance you can get a voltage drop but not enough to probably hurt the saw So use the cord.
Acts like an under rated start capacitor or under rated wire for the capacitor. Could also be a crappy or badly adjusted centrifugal switch. Just my $.02
Absolutely correct. Im voting for the wrong value start cap, but it could very well be a sticky/gummy centrifugal start switch. I should mention Ive been a machine tool repair tech/millwright for almost 30 yrs. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and the scars.
Almost seems like a capacitor trying to charge, while running the motor. Which would sort of make sense as to why it gets better and better, capacitor is finally fully charged. Very odd stuff.
Try plugging the motor directly into the extension cord bypassing the electronics on the Ellis if the problem persists, check the capacitor on the motor just my two Cents.
My brother and my dad are both Ellis dealers and they probably sell 10 to 50 times the machines that your welding supply does..the people at Ellis are the salt of the earth good Midwestern folk. They will make your situation right. Like many manufacturers they are plagued with supply line issues. My guess is that their motor supplier got a bad shipment of capacitors. But don't give up on Ellis.. they make many excellent products and have been in the fabrication equipment industry for a very long time..I'm sure they are not interested in sullying their reputation over 1 motor problem. I will be watching to see the conclusion of this issue. I enjoy your content and often chuckle to myself at the differences between your experiences and mine. Best of luck!
We have a hydmech in our primary shop and it’s awesome. Would highly recommend investing in a great bandsaw and use the other saw as a secondary/ backup
I had a DM-8 and like a cold saw, you had to apply constant pressure to cut. The Ellis is nice because you can walk away on a long cut and do something else.
@@irritantno9 ahh ours is a dm-10 and it’s been great. I’ve been at the company 4 years now and it’s as good now as the day I started with only minor repairs due to our own negligence/ wrongdoings
@@jaminator1 I bought my hyd-mech new. It served a purpose. Wouldn’t say it was my favorite. I have a small wellsaw and the Ellis. The Ellis reminds me of a Dixie chopper. If I need parts, almost all of them can be made or bought from somewhere other than the manufacturer. Everything except the drive wheels on the ellis is stock standard. Same applies for Dixie chopper. Now try that with Hyd-mech.
I'd bet money that the issue is inside the saw's electrical system not the motor. Plug that motor into your extension cord rather than using the saw's power system see if the samething happens. If not then pull that outlet on the saw apart, check all connections and try it. If the issue is fixed then problem solved. If it's not check the power switch. I've never tore into one of those saws but based off the momentary power switch on the saw I have to assume there is a magnetic motor starter switch in the system. Those prevent the saw from powering back up on it's own if you loose power during a storm or something like that. Check all the connections and watch that switch to see if it's having connection issues. Clicking (engaging and disengaging). Also check the momentary power button. This is going to be a super easy fix but yeah it's extremely annoying that you have to deal with this as a customer.
It is a capacitor start motor the capacitor stays in the circuit up to a certain speed then flyweights remove it from the circuit. it sounds like the switch is opening and closing intermittently
This is like my dads woodmizer sawmill. “Made in USA” with poor quality offshore parts. never even tested from the factory, and inoperable upon delivery
I have owned an Ellis 1800 for 20 years.....mine flipped off a tailer even......sat outside for 10 years in the ran, but still cuts .005" off over 4.5 inches vertical and horizontal.....I am curious why you did not plug the motor in with the cord coming off the motor before going to all the trouble of swapping motors.....if the motor was bad, you could have found out right away, it sounds like the gear box has issues, I am writing this at 13 minutes in......have you looked to see if you have rubbing of the blade on the inside guards.....I rally doubt you have a motor issue, looking forward to see what you find out...cheers, Paul in Florida
I would either send it back. Or put a used baldor on it but you shouldn’t have to do that on a brand new saw. Try and find an old marvel saw, they are incredible
Sounds like a bad capacitor, not a bad motor. The capacitor starts your motor then it turns off after the motor gets to speed. Just a thought, and if it is, you have a backup motor.
If pulleys are good and true replace the belt has it may have a flat spot, something I've seen often with new equipment that's been standing for a while with belt under tension, any one of those will cause that shaking. If the belt is to tight that can also cause that poor start-up, my guess is that belt has been over tightened and it's out of shape as a result, you may not be able to see it.
What happens if you plug the motor in directly to the wall instead of plugging it into the outlet on the saw? Or maybe try plugging a different motor into the outlet on the saw and see how it works? Maybe they botched the wiring going to that outlet, seems unlikely though. I bought a used Ellis 1600 because of the first video you made on it, sure glad it came with a Leeson motor.
Same Problem x 2. we bought 2 new saws to replace 2 out of six we've been using every day. Couple are 20 years old. Wonderful machines. But these new ones have the china made motor. Will be calling Ellis soon.
Jet, check out Jet bandsaws. After 3 years of thinking about is I was 75% sure of getting a Sabre. After watching your videos I got a Sidekick 8. My Jet saw cuts straighter than any thing I've used in the last 3 shops I've worked (15 years) at with Ellis. Take that back the last one had a Kalamazoo.
The saw is stiff turning.. that’s just the motor going to slow and the start circuit kicking in and out.. something like a bearing is bound up…. Turn it by hand and find the problem and fix it..
It might not be the motor dude I know I'm a little late with this opinion but I've had that plug underneath the motor where the motor plugs into the receptacle, I've had that open. There is a relay contactor in there, which is controlled by your start switch, they need to look into that and I have a 1600 and I use an 1800 and a 2000 at work, and I honestly don't know what I would do without my Ellis. It is kind of shitty that Ellis went the way of trashy Chinese motors. Mine is a 1996 model and I love it and it works like a fucking champ.
It's sad when you have to spec your own motors, that the equipment manufacturer can't. When on the job, if I let anything other than a Toshiba, for larger than 30 hp, enter the spec, I would not like the response from the electrical engineers. ABB Baldor or WEG brand, NEMA Premium Efficiency motors, where also allowable, but had to run it by the head electrical engineer. Not worth the pain, unless I was ordering ~5 or more.
Man put a meter on the outlet on the machine, see if the machine is supplying the motor clean power, most similar saws have a micro switch that turns the motor off once it hits the bottom of cut, I wonder if it’s the 10 cent micro switch, or a loose connection inside the service outlet on the SAW.. plug the MOTOR , not the SAW into the extension cord or outlet COLD , and see how it runs.. eliminate the saws wiring and electrical equipment… isolate the motor, I don’t think it’s the motor., I’ve had that exact motor running a massive dust collector bag house motor out in the weather, they generally run two years minimum roughly 2 hours a day on average., and harbor freight is only happy to exchange them for me, at the cost of warranty each time..
It seems to me that the startup torque is too high for that type of motor. I replace wing nuts with an adjustable handle with female thread rather than a stud. Really, they should have used a better quality motor. What I don’t understand is how they didn’t notice this at the factory. That whole saw is just too noisy.
Could be lack/loss of voltage/amperage through the safety switches and or other #internal #connections, likely a combination of all of it. It's sounds like crap on the video in general.....cords do lose some amperage over length blah blah blah... I use a large high amp cord for my saws with no issue for a couple years now. Some might suggest plugging the motor plug in directly bypassing the safety equipment to verify the aforementioned theory....
Seems like motor is coming briefly off start winding when centrifugal start switch gets up to speed and then slows down enough for start winding to reclose. I’ve seen this mostly when motor is loaded up. How does it run with no blade? The Ellis belt tensioner design is the absolutely worst I’ve ever seen. ( at least on my 1800)
When moving the Ellis around the shop lift it up and move it with the handle, it’s balanced that way to move. If you move it around with it down it’s harder and heavy. Try it out
I am amazed by how much the motor mount structure flexes. Also, you are being too easy on the saw. You have it in second gear. Will it start at all in 4th gear? I think I could pick up my 400 pound bandsaw by the motor and it would not flex that much. The true test of your power should be done by measuring the voltage while the saw attempts to start. Unloaded voltage means nothing.
You think this is bad just Waite till you get a bad band from Ellis and the saw cuts on a curve no matter how slow the drop rate was turned down to the blade flexed. The cut on a piece of 12” I beam was almost 3/8” difference from the start to the finish
Love the Us 3 phase 220v, that’s the euro regular power! Out of interest does anyone know why this saw cuts without lubricant? My cheap Chinese saw was €1200 and sounds way way nicer that this 3k saw..
The problem is that you need a longer extension cord. Maybe daisy chain 2, 3 or 4 extension cords on a 10 amp circuit with 10 other things running on the same circuit. It should work fine or toss that boat anchor out of the back of the truck while driving down the freeway.😐
Read many of the comments. Some very funny in their educated diagnosis. Here is my educated diagnosis - IT IS A CRAP MOTOR x 2! Geez, how obvious does it have to be?
Come on Ellis! This is a golden opportunity to send an engineer/ smart guy type to troubleshoot, fix or adjust this saw for Lift Arc Studio & get the egg off your face. It's making Ellis look bad. How about making an exception & bring a BALDOR electric motor with the smart guy/ PR guy/gal.. Turn a lemon into Lemonade, come on !
This is kinda ironic, about two hours before seeing this video I came across a clip showing how they cast and build similar motors in India. Honestly I think the ones in India were made much better.
That’s horrible. I’ve ordered a few Chinese motors for exhaust fans, never seen one studder like that. Worse case scenario, have Grainger spec a replacement and spend $350.
@@funone8716 like I said worst case scenario. I’m starting to think he got it at the old price because it was a model with the crappy motor and they wanted to clear them from inventory.
Neutral and common may be wired incorrectly??? Either way that motor is GOBBIJ which is Italian for “we have to save production costs so call China for some trash parts.” I looked that definition up on Wikipedia so you can trust my internet words and such…
Wow that's is very interesting and very informational video Tay and the gang. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friends. Fab On. Weld On. Keep Making. God Bless.
Put the saw up all the way before you move it and it won't be as heavy, instead of leaving it down. Used one of these for years, eventually it did this a couple times but never every day.
For Ellis it's probably choosing between not shipping any products and shipping products with this motor that works for many but not all customers... it sucks either way though
