THIS is why STRINGPIN BOWLING should be ILLEGAL 

Should we also not use any oil like it used to be? The whole argument is that it makes it easier?

​@@Marisa_enjoyerHuge difference between oil making hooking much more calculating and strings causing pins to either yank standing pins down via string or dragging them in weird directions. Also, oil doesn't make it easier. Take the average one league a season bowler and put them on a heavy oil sport shot, and I guarantee they'll struggle much harder than riding the edge of the oil on standard house shots.

@@harpiessnow The whole point of an analogy is that they are not the exact same situation. String pins don't make the game unfair because they don't disproportionately favor any particular player's game. Again, this horrid take on oil only benefits MY point in that heavy oil will benefit people who are NOT league players.

​@@Marisa_enjoyeroil is used to protect the lanes from wear that's why it's called Lane conditioner

But I understand the analogy also using stronger equipment that’s why more 300 are shot compared to before so you want to say that’s making the game easier than why don’t we go back to old school urethane and putting less oil on the lanes

and the rotten kids who lay all over the lanes and throw food. One kid was really ticking me off til I saw his mom slam his little sister on the floor. I was horrified. My local lanes are half clown-world. I dislike that very much and feel sorry for the owners because people these days tend to be unpredictably violent. (as a mom, it broke my heart - you wonder why some kids ack like animals and there it is....a mom who's an animal) Kids don't have a chance these days...

It’s better than not bowling at all 🤷‍♂️. They aren’t that bad. He’s bowling on recreation string pins. Not usb certified calibration.

I was bowling a couple months ago and had to wait for a mom to walk down my lane and retrieve her 3 year old. Warned her about how slippery the lanes would be.

i take offense to that lol. i have to rent my shoes they dont make a size 12.5

​​​ depending how serious bowler You are, Dexter SST 8 are $150 Dexter SST 9 are $250 with interchangeable soles They both go to 14. I've had my SST 9 for about 10yrs. Just get a new slide pad every other year

I've bowled on string pins once technically, but it was duck pin string pins so I don't really count that as having gone string pin bowling. I dislike how the 3 hardest splits in the game were made by this guy in like half an hour. I think they should stay out of sanctioned leagues, and only be used for recreation

But since bowling is a competitive game, the opponent will also be able to, with 'ease,' get those hard spares as well. So it remains fare.

@@exoressdelivers70 I think you mean "fair." I'm not going to listen to someone who can't spell.

@@dcorbebut yet his point still rings true and the only thing your able to follow up with is to call him out on is a spelling mistake 😂.

He got lucky on the 3 spares. They are not easy to make. You have no idea how many times he shot at these spares until he finally made it.

An argument for the other side, is more consistent pin placement. Bad pocket hits are more rarely rewarded with strikes. And when they tested this with probowlers, the average score difference was only a single point. It has its upsides and downsides, just like freefalling pins does, but when it comes to score and play in actual matches, there really is no noteable difference to be made. Edge tech string did a huge test with tenfolds of pro bowlers, and when surveyed, a vast majority, 80+% said they would welcome string bowling to leagues. I agree that pin action is different, but you overall score of a match wont change much, if anything at all. I recommend you look in to these tests and researches made, so you can make a more informed, less biased opinion. It's a bit odd that an entire comment section is hating on something the vast majority of the pro scene is comfortable playing with.

We try it once and don't like it, so we call it tampon on a string.

@@whimseyOFC Heres the thing. People keep saying it was tested with probowlers. But I can never find a test with them using actual probowlers. I found a bunch with 150-180 average bowlers... And then one with a single bowler with a PBA card that has only ever done a few regionals.

@@kif1re www.qubicaamf.com/insights/blog-documents/edge-string-play-vs-free-fall-research-study_06.pdf I dont know if links are allowed, but here you go. It's a bit tricky to find this paper if you havent seen it before. We have paper brochures of this exact research paper available at our local alley

sadly i didnt know id be doing a sanctioned league with string pins everyone is skeptical and alot of ppl including 3 of new friends at the league hate it and will go back to a different center that doesnt have it but im currently in a sanctioned league in Jax, FL

This is what I was thinking, too. Those did not appear to be string pinsetters that conform to the new USBC specs. The strings looked to be too short at this house hence the weird pin action. Side note, as I understood the USBC study on string pinsetters, they determined that the 65-inch strings resulted in pin action and strike percentages closest to free-fall, but they increased the likelihood of tangles. So, they set the minimum string-length spec to 54 inches as a middle ground (i.e.: still "close" to free-fall pin action and strike percentage, but reduced tangle likelihood and stops) to allow centers to use medium-length strings (54-inch to 60-inch) in order to reduce the number of stops but still not have the weird pin action of the short strings like the lane he was bowling on.

😂t iit t7

If testing is still being conducted, then why the certification now?

Exactly, its nothing to do with anything but money. Anyone can make figures add up to what they want them to say. When there are no techs left to dress lanes properly, there will be no serious bowling outside the PBA.

Here for this

Ditto. Was an awesome sport. I will not participate in this carnival crap

Same

Same.

Same for me

You dont need to be a rocket scientist to observe the length of the strings have the pins reacting quite differently. Too short and too long are very different in action. A string of a pin that's moving can interfere with the vertical part of a string of a pin that's sitting still, knocking it over basically by accident. This is basically a carnival show and should never be used in any competitive arena. I'm blown away that this would ever even be considered in competition. It's a joke.

String pins aren't bad for casual bowling, cheaper for bowling centers and carry/spares would make casuals feel awesome bringing more people to the sport ( in theory). But approving it for competitive play is absolutely a joke

USBC approving it for sure

Why would someone inventing it be a bad thing? It's been around in Europe with 9-pin bowling, and it's an incredibly cheap, efficient way to run a casual bowling alley. Approving it was a ridiculous decision. I don't get the motivation behind it. I'm sure it was in good faith, but I think they didn't do the proper research before hand.

they are equally worse

@@bmhedgehog2 haha nice 😊

i'm assuming their response to be "that's not a sanctioned string setter"

USBC has a specification of string length, I wonder how these compare to spec as they seem really short.

Don’t forget about the Out if Range Pins or pins that moved off spot and not fall over. Strings are incapable of leaving the off spot pins where it was left off after ball impact.

These are not the approved string pins.

USBC s report was falsified. They rigged the results intentionally to make it seem slightly harder or made little difference. I have zeros trust in anything they say or approve anymore.

Lmao like bowling isn't a dying sport already. This type of mentality is what killing the sport in the first place. Always wanting "traditional" bowling. First the hate for 2 handed, urethane and now this. Creativity and innovation is what makes the sport still alive rather than just a sport where people throw overpriced bowling balls to get a strike.

@@megatbasyarullah4859 When you can convert a split by a string knocking over a pin and not a pin knocking over a pin that’s a problem

@@megatbasyarullah4859 The urethane restrictions thing is for the pros and doesn't affect anyone else. Those 2 handers you love are also responsible for houses putting down more and more oil, which only makes it way harder for the average recreational bowler to make a ball curve and also forces them to buy high end expensive balls to have any chance at hooking the ball. Higher oil volumes isn't a good thing for recreational bowling. But the old cat and mouse game will continue (more aggressive balls, more oil, more aggressive balls, more oil, etc...)

@@BornIn1500 houses absolutely aren't increasing oil volumes, they're cutting oil or eliminating it completely. The bowlmor by me doesn't oil for open bowling, period

@@iceman5117 Houses eliminating oil? LMAO you clearly have no clue what you're talking about, period.

for the recreational bowlers, its good. but not for the serious and competitive crowd.

​@@floggerfrog if you have kids, don't let them bowl on these garbage machines because when they roll a 6 pound or 7 pound ball so slow and once they hit the Headpin dead center in a slow speed, the ball would just sit on the pindeck and not comeback. Just to let you know that not all Bowling Centers have ramps for kids

I dont really like sting pins. If a center wants to hold tournaments and leagues, I think they need to not have string pins.

@@PinoyBowlerGS92 yep.

@@PinoyBowlerGS92 i know that man. but yes, personally i dont like stringpins either but unless somehow the manufacturers come up with a way to make a freefall pinsetters as cheap as string ones this would continue

There is a market for it for open bowlers. There are no available lanes in my area, ne Indiana and Southern lower Michigan, where you can even get a lane! Proprietors only do leagues because anyone of them will tell you, open bowlers are stupid and do a lot of damage to the lanes and equipment. Having been anA 2 mechanic, I have to agree! I have a house in Arizona and I can get lanes most anytime somewhere, even if it is at an arcade. They're kinda cool because they are Brunswick GSX!

Here's the big thing that Strings are incapable of: Out of Range Its a big problem because in the USBC rules, if a pin slides off spot, it should stay where it was left off after the 1st Ball. Strings cannot do that while Free Fall Pinsetters can

Yep, absolutely. "Carnival-like"

Use 18 lb balls....or 20....lolol

I SAY YOU USE THE BALL WITH THE MOST HOLES ... AND THE SHORTEST SPAN...23LB BALL.. AND ANYTHING ELSE YOU THINK MIKE MIGHT HAVE THAT IS RIDICULOUS...DONT FORGET TO BRING THE BANDAIDS/NEW SKIN.

@@jenniferboone-sz1lo Add bumpers and allow two balls to be thrown at once. Gonna make this fun.

​@@synifxThink I'd pass on anything involving bumpers. Thank you tho...

fr fr ong

100%

The USBC has ACTUALLy approved these for tournaments??!! Cash paying tourneys? You have to be kidding. Not good.

@@roboneil408 Separate Category, but yes.

exactly the point I was making and thank you. Well said.

This is exactly the point I’ve been trying to make to some friends of mine. String pin bowling will not be my thing at all, but I do believe it does have its place for the solely recreational type of bowling (and primarily the younger crowd) and I do appreciate that this bowling house set up a separated section of lanes just for that. I’ll continue to choose the traditional lanes but having the section for string pin lanes will definitely be good for the house long-run, it can keep *certain* crowds away from the traditional lanes. As for USBC allowing it as a competitive category, it is goofy but my opinion won’t change anything.

I've never made a 7 10 split or a big 4 sanctioned or not but if I did I would yawn at it.

I really dont want my local center to ever switch.

Bowlero isn't in my area YET and I see them as the Borg.

I actually think string pins are good for bowling as a whole in terms of ease of access for the regular bowler. But they should be nowhere near competition

only the masters and US Open are broadcast on TV so no worries there

Back in the day when I was a kid, we did have this as a novelty game in the arcades inside bowling alleys.

Correct. This house is not using certified pinsetters. These are just for open bowlers. The USBC-certified ones will not give the kind of pin action he was getting (for the most part). I don't like string pinsetters from a purist's standpoint, but I understand the business/financial rationale behind them. That being said, a lot of the bowlers complaining about them should take the time to watch the USBC video on their research and why they set the specs where they did and how much different a new certified pinsetter plays versus the old-style string setups like he was bowling on. They're not the same thing.

I saw something that was an “improvement” to these, pins with no strings!

@@playdiscgolf1546 Ha ha. Let's be serious here. If free fall pin setters are in good working order (meaning that you don't have to wait minutes to continue bowling...or don't have move to different lanes) and then are as easy to maintain as the string pin setters, then yes, it is better to use free fall setters. The problem is that the current setters are not working well, they are expensive, and the people that can fix them are becoming fewer. I've had enough centers close down around me...I don't want more. When you have lanes shut down during a PBA events, this should be a concern with the state of these machines.

USBC and whoever did the "hard work" can take all that and shove it up their asses.

@@jglotzbach3264Operators are wiping their asses with the certification, just as they did when moving to strings.

I could show you that. Throwing the ball 12.5 mph last tourney to get the ball to read the backs #lowrevrate

I actually did this exact thing for my 8th grade science experiment

where do you live?

@@lier999 Greece!

@@bowlingxp8345 that's cool. I almost went bowling during my visit there in february but we didn't have any time. Very nice country btw

Good idea, not_penis_cream!

I’m with @not_penis_cream on this one

Laffing so hard at this name.

It's not like they thought it was a good idea for actual play. It is all about money since regular pinsetters are MUCH more expensive and much more fragile. They break a lot, take longer to fix (requiring a highly trained maintenance worker trained just for them) and are quite dangerous to work on. These are cheaper, break less, and can be fixed by any employee in a couple minutes at the most when they do break down. Meaning less down time for players on that lane.

Very true comment. I was wonder if these were installed to the USBC standards

Strings are definitely too tight. I would kill for that pin action.

You’re the exception then because most report higher scores on string pins

@@alstraka It's taken a while for the pin setters at the new alley to loosen up. I have one lane that I can score in the high 180's to low 200's consistently while the other lanes still have no pin action.

The strings are generally going to HELP your score. You are just out of practice after 10 years.

@@FUGP72 I dont think thats what the USBC found in their study at all. In fact, in their study over thousands of games, they found that string pins resulted in a lower avg score by about 1 pin per game.

I don't see why a regular pinsetting couldn't be designed to do this just as easily though. Just don't release the pins you don't want.

and yet, usbc certified them to actually be used for tournament play

@@manewhairstyle my point is that the center did not bother with bringing these pinsetters to proper USBC code

“Fun” doesn’t come to mind. This is like a bad dream

Doesn't much matter what this one place intends to do or not... entire facilities all over the place are converting to strings because it's cheap, and the USBC in their infinite wisdom has given this abomination their blessing. Sooner or later it's coming to YOUR center, and this is all you're gonna get. Enjoy the "future of bowling", such as it is...

Throw up the gang sign

Tennis is still big enough that you're not going to see the future Williams, Nadals, etc moving over to pickleball. They are clearly 2 completely separate entities and only bump heads when pickleball players start playing it on tennis courts where more serious tennis players play tennis. Municipalities and other space builders are constructing pickleball specific courts for that reason. Stringpins are a bit different than that. Sure, in this video the strings are partitioned off from the regular lanes, and a local center around me does the same. The strings are in another separate area like the video and are for party rentals only. But with the USBC approving strings for actual competitive league bowling, it's only a matter of time before cash strapped proprietors go string, even for more serious competition. Leagues don't make the money anymore, it's the shoe renting, house ball using people that bowl once every 5 years. Strings are here to stay sadly, and they do have their place (mini bowling, casual bowling..and mainsteam duckpin and 5pin bowling has adapted to them somehow) but it's not bowling anymore than than the local pickleball tournament at the senior center is Wimbledon.

more than two teams to a pair. or you can't have as many teams this season. 0:26 clearly says independent competition so no mixed bowling

Is it a good video? He was bowling on the "fun" side of the center on lanes not intended for competitive play, so not only do we not know if the pin setters were an approved model set up to approved specifications, we also don't know if the pit, lane surface, pins etc. meet the standards for sanctioned competition. At best it's a video from which you can draw no conclusions about sanctioned string pin lanes, because they aren't, at worst it's a deliberate attempt to vilify sanctioning string pin lanes by filming at a location he knows is substandard.

What’s more infuriating is the people supporting this. Clearly not passionate bowlers

Agreed and do not listen to the propaganda by bowlers that support this much less USBC. This is not real bowling.

QAMF's manual for these pinspotters shows the string tension is adjustable.

If there is some kind of clutching mechanism for how tight or loose string can be set you are correct

Or you could hit the 10 pin only on your first shot, and wwtch and see if it can take out the other 9 pins via string reaction..

Me too. @220, that's a good vid idea.

Actually they had tests and unfortunately, the tangled string clear calls were pretty high.

How would that even work at a 40 lane center? Cut off 10 lanes for this garbage? There has been an infestation of family and adult entertainment centers out there last 20 some years that's all the new alleys being built are.

@@skalamaz3 my home alley has the old side which is lanes 1-36Then a new side that was built a few years back which is totally separate which has glow bowl, louder music, a separate bar, And that’s lanes 37-56. I can see it working on that side. But I am aware not every bowling alley is like that. But ones that are yeah it could work

If centers had some string pin machines and some free fall machines, I would pay extra to play on free fall

It wasn’t about difficulty. It was a cost benefit analysis for many people. The maintenance costs are way lower, the lane up time is higher, and the set up/employee cost is cheaper. They just then wanted to approach the USBC to see if they could maintain their league revenue.

That's been tried before... manufacturers couldn't make it work. The strings have to be repeatedly manipulated to get close enough for the magnets to grab all the pins in the right spot... you'd be sitting there all day waiting for it to re-rack. It would be faster if they went back to pin boys...

One benefit to string pins as that you can set up any combo you want, but that's not exactly accurate spare practice for splits cuz the strings cause you to make the spare when in fact you didnt

He sold his soul 😔

I noticed that the opposite is true as well. There were times where the pin would be a messenger but come up short because of the string.

It counts. All falling pins count. What, you want a referee?

​@@jenniferboone-sz1loI can think of at least 2 instances where "all falling pins" don't count 1: ball enters the gutter then bounces out hitting the pin 2: knocked over by the pinsetter

@AngrySecs Throwing a foul ball that hits the pins. I.e., stepping over the foul line.

@jakethehud All in all, String pins are just dumb.