One of the reasons you must start the ball on 1st step (4 step approach) or 2nd step (5 step approach) is that this allows the ball to NATURALLY clear your hip without having to adjust the swing. When I coach, I try to create an association between STARTING the swing and the heel of your right foot on IT'S first step (step 1 for 4 and step 2 for 5). This gives you a physical cue to start your swing.
Why not a side wide view camera so we can actually see the steps as they relate to the swing? We can’t even see feet or legs the entire video. Frustrating.
Hey Brad and Kyle, really enjoyed your video! A lot of good information and reminders for the advanced bowler like myself! My coach likes using the term "ball placement" instead of "push away" or "push out" because it helps create a better image in the mind. I think you guys did a great job of explaining that you don't want to feel like you're chasing the ball, but perhaps in future videos the term "ball placement" is something you to could mention to help people out! Thank you for all you do for the bowling community!
Hi Brad and Kyle! I just had to write and say THANK YOU!!! My average is 123. No kidding, I watched this video about 10 days ago, and have practiced what you taught here on 2 different occasions... last night I bowled an AVERAGE of 173! I am now #1 for female handicap series in our (sanctioned) league. The tip in this video is FIRE. Thank you so so much. Mind blown. I'm now sending this video to my entire team. Thanks again, happy bowling :)
I have a 4 step approach and last week I was trying to add the 5th. I think in general I have late timing and trying to switch to 5 steps made it feel so early I just couldn't do it. I guess it will feel weird at first but I should persist. I have lost ball speed the last couple of years and I want to increase it a bit again to generate more power.
I'm a four stepper... I tried this a BUNCH of times, and I can't do it in five steps. Just Starting on a different foot throws my WHOLE approach off... lol
If you’re a four-stepper, you need to push the ball out BEFORE you take the first step. It should be almost as far out in the push away as it will get, then begin your four steps.
Don’t let anybody tell you that you must do this or you should be doing that. The best thing you can do is find a coach and work with him or her. Forget buying a new ball-take that money and take some lessons from your local pro. Don’t argue with them-do what they say and practice it. I gained over 40 pins on my average after only three lessons, some work and a willingness to learn new things. I injured both my shoulders in 2016 and I just started bowling again. I just bowled in my third week and threw a 728. The simple truths don’t change and once you’ve learned them and learned how to think you will be surprised how fast you will improve. It starts with taking lessons with an open mind.
Personally I have already studied Brad & Kyle video on the four step approach,over and over and over again. Went from a three step approach and 168 average to a four step approach and a 195 average and you have to monitor your approach all the time it’s so easy to get out of timing.
Good info, but we can’t see your entire body. IE: feet taking the steps, where do you position yourself, and where you end up on the lane. Film it again, reduce the fluff on the dialogue, and stick to the subject
I do a 4-step approach amd my ball goes into motion at the same time I start taking my first step. I reach the top of my backswing in the third step and full forward swing in the fourth.
The only timing that counts is at the line. You can start the ball on different moments, but as long you are reaching the line in good timing and in good, stable position, that is always the same, is ok. There are different good timings, for women, for 2 handers, for high swings, for low swings, for fast or slow swings, for fast /slow or big/small steps. And don't try to analyze Jacob! Butturff!😀😀
Absolutely love this channel. I was literally struggling with this last night. Can’t wait for the luci so I can meet Brad again and Kyle for the first. Don’t get sick this time!
Just like golf, you have to get the lower body going. I use a 4 step approach but I will be trying to create 5 to gain momentum. I bowled over 25 years ago and averaged bout 200. Over the past year I got back into it and using a 4 step I seem to get tired quickly. But the time I get to the 3rd game I feel like I'm working way to hard. I need to get on the 5 step.
Comically, in the exercise that Kyle did, on the second step, he didn't let the ball drop, that what Brad told him to do, kyle did a little push away, was a great shot anyway. Comically, in the exercise that Kyle did, on the second step, he didn't let the ball drop, he did a little push away, great shot anyway.
I am 5'0" and use a 4 step and have a short stride. ( I like leading with my right) I start at the second set of dots and often end up a foot or a little more before the foul line. I do not slide, still a beginner and have the cheaper shoes. should I move up a foot at my approach? I like to use the dots to position my feet so I probably need to start there for placement and then take a small step forward? Idk,?
I have a 4 step approach and the ball passes my ankle as it slides to the foul line, is that good timing? My ball isn't high my by chest when I set up on the approach. No push away, so it just drops into the swing. 17.2 mph and 375 revs... middle of the middle. My legs supply about 80% of the power.
Enjoyed the presentation, very helpful. My only suggestion is that the camera is lowered to always show your footwork instead of cutting off the video just below your knees. Less ceiling, lowered angle would be great!
This sums me up perfectly, I do my push away on 2.5/3 step. I’ve tried everything to get the ball going on second step but just can’t do it. Tried forcing it, just feels so unnatural, as I’ve been bowling like this for 10 or so years and I know I’ve got late timing
226 bowler, 1 handed thumbless, and I start my swing in the final 2 steps. It is ok to do it, as long as you understand a thumbless bowler has no real backswing.
Timing can be as early or as late as you want as long as: 1) It is repeatable, 2) It feels natural, 3) It promotes an athletic approach/release. Aiming for perfect timing every time is for bowlers who are stuck in 1977. May as well keep your shoulders completely square too for good measure. This way you can shoot at 5s and 10s all day. A bowler who is lined up, has the right ball in their hands, and who is matched within their RPMs/ball speed who is late every single shot is going to beat a bowler who does NOT have the right ball in their hands, who isn't lined up, and who is not matched in their RPMs/ball speed but who has perfect timing. This isn't basketball where the target never moves. Just like in golf, the target MOVES in bowling. You need to move WITH it. All four of what I would consider the Mt Rushmore of bowling coaches (Joe Slowinski, Mike Shady, Mark Baker, and Mo Pinel) would 100% agree with me on this.
Love The Tips. Can You Talk About Reflextion Targeting on A Inside Shot on One Of Your Vids I Love The Pro Bowlers Male and Female. And Helped Many Young Bowlers In The Day And In The Staten Island. Hof. ForThis Achievement
My center I can hardly slide at anymore due to their approaches. It's destroyed my timing and release due to inconsistency. I've tried just about everything from leather heels to the highest "slide" pad.
You should slide toward your target, on the intended slide board. It's supposed to be angled a bit, especially when playing steeper angles and playing 4th or 5th arrow, as you have to project the ball to the right. Sliding straight isn't optimal tbh.
@@Callofthegame247 I hear that's what I should do. Maybe it's from playing hockey for a long time but when I look down after throwing, my foot's pointing toward the lane to the rt about 2'oclock. Maybe I just need to practice more on it *shrugs*
I think the formula for timing should be based on the players body, C. Barnes is 6 ft aprox, so his timing should not be equal to, for instance, big Wes. I see Chris style more like loading an arrow, very difficult technique, and has its good and bad sides
Maybe someone should tell Chris Barnes and Shannon O'keefe amongst others to try this. Also, I thought pushout and push away were banned by modern bowling instructors? The only coach I listen to is Mark Baker and he's got no problem with the pushaway as long as the player is in the timing slot at the start of the slide step.
It's whatever is most natural for you as well as what is the most athletic and repeatable. For the LONGEST time I was told to never go over the bar in my push away because of how outdated it was. So I didn't. Instead I did the opposite: Went straight down, since that's how the "modern" style preaches. It's a core part of DYDS as well. Well one day I said "wait, why don't I combine the two? Go over the bar on my pushaway AND do DYDS?" I experimented a little bit and found that over the bar is perfect for me. I have long arms but a VERY small center of gravity. Going over the bar allows me to be WAY more athletic than going straight down.
So help me out here. I'm a 2 finger no thumb bowler, so my swing isn't as high as normal thumb in bowler, so I do tend to start my swing a tad bit later, and my timing is inconsistent. Can someone help me out with thus please?
Thanks for the tips, guys. A few weeks ago when I was practicing with my dad, he told me that I need to get my feet moving a little faster. I tend to have late timing and I’ve been trying to improve the timing of my push away.
I feel this is the coached way if u find someone that understands physics and the way God made us and than approach the game if ur strong and have good hand eye coordination u can do good in bowling I saw you at the bull run regional some weeks ago that's my house it's sad because there's so much money in this area but no big action house bowlers
My problems with my timing has never been from pushing the ball out to late. It's always come from the fact that once I do the push out I tend to speed up steps 3,4, and 5 way to fast. My feet out run my swing.
I've been bowling so long I don't even know how many steps I take. If I had to say what feels good and works for me is 4 steps. I line up and as soon as my feet start in motion that's when that ball starts motion. I think what I see from my local alley is people putting over emphasis on the apex of their swing and then they get off balance.
The leg work is extremely difficult for me. My body naturally wants to end on my right leg as a right handed bowler. I'm trying to train myself to end on the left leg but that's basically just doing two steps. One long right step as I'm starting the swing, then basically a pause for my arm to catch up then go left foot forward as i throw. Thinking about a full approach at this point is nerve wracking.
I often hear don't muscle the backswing or pull down. If your push away is straight out and you simply let the ball drop, how can you get your backswing higher than parallel to the floor? How about follow thru? Should there be no acceleration?
Part of it could be you're height as you approach...what I mean by that is if you bend your legs then when you get the swing in motion it can feel like it's going higher. But you don't really (or at least you shouldn't) try to generate power from your arm and shoulder. It should come from the legs. If you try to pull the ball back and then pull it forward to generate power, you can easily cause yourself to pull the ball or push the ball too far right
I’ve been bowling now for80 years, I used 4 step approach until recently, just changed to a 5 step approach however I don’t push ball into motion until the 3 rd step and I do average over 200 bowling 2 times per week. I will try to go to a push away on the 2nd step, enjoyed video.
Wow! Late timing and dropping the ball by the second step has been a constant problem of mine for years. My coach has been working with me on it every time I see him. It is definitely robbing me of ball speed and it greatly affects my balance, especially at the point of release. I am going to keep working on this issue so it helps me and allows my legs to be a bigger part of this. I am 67 years old and have been working the past 3 years in strengthening my left leg which had a hip replacement. It doesn't hurt and my legs are much stronger now so I have no excuse. Thanks again for showing this video because the whole thing has been so frustrating for me in recent years. Laura Simmons, Euclid, Ohio
I remember when I started bowling and a buddy showed me this, it was a completely natural thing. I later wanted to give tips to other people and told them, that their timing is one step late and tried showing them examples of the „correct“ timing and EVERYONE except me did it wrong. I was baffled and only then noticed, that in germany 90% of the people basically do the late pushaway. I even am a certified coach now and in the course I was told that my timing is one step early… good thing I can teach it the real way now.
Perfect timing on this video. I was just working on this very thing with one of my young students this week. I will share with him. Great tips! Thank you!!
I wish I could do that many steps.I had knee surgery and I'm down to 3 steps.I'm moving the ball toward the back swing as soon as I move forward. Don't know what else to try.
Great video! Trying to help the wife get her foot work down. I have similar issues as well on stopping way to early before the foul line. As a two handed bowler it seems very similar and will apply this to my approach! More please!👍🏽
Um, good thing you guys don't coach Danielle McEwan.....she takes five steps but does not put her ball in motion until her third step. BTW, she's pretty good..........
What I came here to say. I start really low and don’t have a high back swing. If I started on my second step, I’d be holding the ball at the top of my swing for a long time
I'm 6'5" and 65 years old and I use a very short backswing on a 5 step approach. What I do to accommodate that is take very short steps. I start well in front of the middle dots and the timing is fine (190 average).
Hey guys!! This video big help. Years ago I took lessons with a Silver coach and she got me to feel absolute free swing. Went to USBC Open, struggled badly, and started pulling on ball again. Problem is now I cannot get that free swing feeling back again. Any tips, drills etc you have that might help. I use four step approach. The harder I try, the more frustrating it becomes. Thanks
I have late timing like that. My balance was still very good only because I have a long extension and knee bend where my weight keeps moving forward. The problem with late timing is most people don't let gravity handle the down swing. My rev rate got stuck at 300-325 because I was accelerating so hard on my down swing. I never could fix it. Maybe I should have switched to 4 steps. After 20 years the muscle memory is hard to change.
Just watched this video on correcting approach issues, something I’ve struggled with lately. Unfortunately, you spent more time on TALKING about and showing the wrong way and much less time on demonstrating the proper approach method. I hope you will or have done other videos on the correct approach techniques.
Yes, it does. Don't pull up or down. Trust the process. Take what you get from it. High, medium, or low backswing. Crossover the (1st or 2nd) step simultaneously with the beginning of the swing, and don't stop. Let it happen. Practice.
I'm a 4 stepper and start my push with my first step. Been that way for a long time but did' bowl a lot, just came back to it at 59 (not having bolted since my mid 20's). I'm trying to learn to hook, so should I work on changing to a 5 step?
I think timing is an issue for me in being able to repeat my shot. I’m a bigger guy, 250+, and speed dominant, straighter is greater guy. I don’t feel like I’m jerking it down but my ball speed recently is typically 19-20 so I must be
COOL BUT YOU BOTH NEED TO WORK ON YOUR LEFT HAND ITS ALL OVER THE PLACE CAUSING UNBALANCED IN THE SLIDE..YOUR LEFT HAND SHOULD NOT BE VISIBLE FROM BEHIND UNTIL THE SLIDE ,YOUR ARM SHOULD BE SINC TO YOUR HIP ON THE RELEASE. HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IM TRYING TO EXPLAIN 😅😅😅 YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME.
For me I listen to music in league to help with my tempo of my steps. I do step, step ball pulls down and back , side step pull forward and force power into the release. And it sucks . This video is going to help me out when I go and practice. so thank you Brad & Kyle
Due to being 64 and having had a combination of 4 surgeries on my right shoulder and arm, my backswing is much shorter than you young fellas. With this said, I always feel like I would be too early when pushing out on second step. In this case would it make sense to delay the swing?
I bowl much better when I need to work the ball a little harder. If you have an “easygoing” swing then all you end up doing is guiding the ball. When I launch my ball at the target I’m definitely not guiding it.
Didn't realize how late my timing was until I started moving by ball a little earlier into my swing with slightly faster footwork. Implemented this changes and bowled a 287 in league last night.
Over my active years of competitive, I used a 6 step delivery building momentum with the first two steps. I used almost the entire approach adjusting distance to the foul line as needed. I don't suggest this for the novice.
Syncing the swing and the footwork is hard. I get it during lessons with Jas but when I’m by myself something is restricting in my approach even when I time the start of the swing and my second step.
I do a four step and I push off with the first step and time it with my steps. Bowling my whole life and pro mom bowler in Queens and great local bowler. Highest average lady bowler in the whole county for years but she past now.
I've done a 4-step for as long as I can remember, however my swing starts with my left foot not my right. Bowling tonight and tried starting the swing on the right foot and I took 5 small steps and was way off balance many times. Maybe more practice.
My issue was early timing, I had to change my push away/drop swing to start after my second step was on the floor vs in time with second step to bring my swing into alignment with my slide step.
so this is me to a tee... late timing and off balance. the problem is, I feel even more off balance if I start the swing earlier. I must be doing something wrong in the set up because i feel like the ball is fighting me the whole way.
1, 2, 3, ... no just doesn't seem to ever work. Nothing works. It's all a scam. Sorry, but I've just checked out the stats on the PBA Bowlers website, and Kyle is dropping in average. Only 212!!! I looked up to you and Brad to lead the way. To show me the moves that will make me the king of bowling. I waited and watched others like Tang and others... No one was able to show me the way. There is no way. No one can now convince me that practicing or changing balls or going to Dallas Texas will ever change the bad things in our bowling. Ask any of your friends, like Jason Belmonte, how can you get better??? Now I'm facing a Seniors tournament. That's how long I waited to jump in. I might have to bowl against Pete Webber.
