As a response to this video, RU-vid will remove the HDR feature altogether and remove the ability to select resolution options to improve the experience.
I always wanted youtube to support multiple audio tracks. I wanted to start a bilingual (english/french) channel back in the day without having to have two separate videos.
You are speaking out of my soul. We have been trying to upload high quality HDR content for over 5 years. We were never satisfied or understood what RU-vid was doing. Now that software, codecs and displays are mature enough to support HDR, RU-vid really needs to get their act together.
I'm glad it wasn't just me... I felt a tad incompetent wondering if I just couldn't figure it out. Multiple audio tracks is TOTALLY a feature that they won't roll out, too.
What surprised me was back in the days before youtube supported 60fps video, they still stored the original 60fps file if thats what you uploaded. Then years later when they rolled out 60fps support, all these old videos magically became 60fps! it was great. I remember one youtuber I used to watch actually saw that coming and had been uploading all their videos in 60fps for years and years, even though RU-vid didn't support it at the time.
Here's hoping that'll happen with 120fps videos sooner rather than later. Would be great for sports and gaming videos to name a couple. We got the bandwidth. We got the storage and power to edit in 120 fps. Most gamers have 120Hz+ monitors, most new phones and TVs are 120Hz+ too. Heck, there's probably wider support for 120fps playback than there is for HDR.
The RU-vid video player supported 60 fps playback before it supported 60 fps streaming. Just upload a 60 fps video at 50% speed then use 2x playback speed. Likewise, upload a 120 video at half speed and do the same thing. Completely stupid having a video time be twice as long as its supposed to be... But for purely experimental use, it should work for 120 fps playback.
Hey, Linus! Thanks for referencing my HDR to SDR video! I've been thinking about doing a follow-up video about how to embed a blended Dolby Vision analysis into an HDR video file for use on RU-vid. It's not full, legit Dolby Vision, but this method uses a portion of Dolby Vision's toolkit, and it's another great alternative for creating a tonemapped SDR version of your HDR videos for RU-vid. Unfortunately, you still need to use RU-vid's janky HDR Metadata Tool to embed it into the file... But let me know if it sound interesting to you, and I'll try to set aside some time to make that video!
Yeah I feel like they could have e capitalized on this saying that Floatplane would have HDR videos going forward. Instead of just complaining they would actually try to show a better example for youtube to follow.
Ain't paying for floatplane, who wants another stupid subscription.. Linus use to give us fun tech nerd news.. Now it's just look at me and how rich my company crap.. Ltt use to be fun.. Now it's just Money...
@@Powerman293 yippee another stupid subscription you will use for 2 weeks and never again.. ltt use too be fun.. now it's a money factory.. tech nerds share knowledge for free...
Imagine if Linus would've uploaded this video in HDR *just to exemplify how awful it looks on most people's displays.* I remember MKBHD talking about it before, and running into the same issues. HDR is still niche, but because of things like these, it'll take longer to get there.
@@evolicious To the contrary, big budget editors and studios are the people who care the MOST about HDR, as they're the creatives who are actually moving the industry forward. All Netflix originals and Disney+ projects have Dolby Vision and many movies release with a 4K Blu-ray with HDR. The sentiment that HDR is somehow a "gimmick" stuns me, because unlike 3D video, HDR is exclusively beneficial in every conceivable way. More colors per channel/more brightness values = objectively more information = objectively more image visible to your eyeballs. As a content creator who aspires to master in HDR myself, it's always disappointing to me when people who haven't made an effort to understand the format claim that it shouldn't exist, especially when you throw around an arbitrary figure like "99% of viewers". You may not understand or believe in HDR and that's fine, but let me ask you this: would the development of this technology have a negative impact on anyone? If the answer to that question is no, then please stop perpetuating the argument that it's a "silly gimmick". Thanks.
@@evolicious Didn’t know it was Bad Take Tuesday. Filmmakers have already had “high dynamic range” for decades because film has captured higher dynamic range than SDR video did for ages. If anything, HDR has allowed films played at home to look better than they ever have previously, more like their original theater presentation-and it has allowed prestige television to get yet another film-like upgrade in visual fidelity as the cost of acquiring higher dynamic range footage has come down. As this video points out, even high-end digital cinema cameras like RED and ARRI are capable of acquiring this kind of dynamic range and they’re still much cheaper to shoot on than film. 3D was a silly gimmick. HDR (and its accompanying wide color gamut) are definitely not.
@@JoeNokers My thoughts exactly. My first HDR TV was a cheapo set and although it was technically capable of playing the HDR content it was very dull. I too thought HDR was a rubbish technology. Then I got a better TV and the difference between HDR and SDR is like night and day. Everything looks so much better in HDR.
I know so many people with RED cameras that spent so much money on this epic camera and then upload ungraded footage for people who are watching it on their phones... and it looks terrible
....... grading should be happening regardless of SDR or HDR intent, PERIOD! So one of us is missing something here. To a degree, I have to feel like pick and commit!
youtube should open up a open source side of it where creators can submit features and all they have to do it add them if they are voted in fairly by the community. They could implement a system where only verified creators that are monetized can vote, this way they have our KYC and know the real channels. The creators that help submit features or combat spam on the platform earn an extra percentage amount on their revenue at the end of the month instead of youtube taking the full 30 percent. It would give everyone an incentive to make the platform better and they wouldn't have to wait years for updates that dont matter as much, like removing the dislike count. there are so many better things time could be spent on! another example, creators should be allowed to also take in revenue from companies that directly advertise on their channel. The way this could work is that someone would submit an ad to your channel with an amount they wish to pay (allowing creators to also create tiers) and the creator can choose whether or not to accept the ad and where it would play during the video. This way advertisers can directly promote to their audience instead of a bunch of bots. So many advertisers right now are paying for botted views and have no idea!
Perhaps the irony in this is that when I bought my first HDR capable TV, quite a while ago now. RU-vid was one of the only ways you could even see HDR content at all. So it feels bad that they've apparently dropped the ball.
@@mrcraggle lololololol, imagine youtube caring about why 12 whiney man-children are complaining about HDR. Reality is, no one can tell the difference, and no one cares. RU-vid caters to 5 billion people, you dunce.
It's they make money from their content creators, people watching RU-vid is a given they don't care about the viewer but keeping the creators, disabling dislikes was just to keep the sensitive content creators happy
Rant included, this was actually quite an interesting topic. Even though it's applied to issues with YT, the process and considerations for HDR content is interesting enough. It helps having a real world application of the issues to apply the process to too.
I remember when you did your last warehouse tour and you pointed out the editing suite that was supposed to be pitch black for mastering HDR content. Unfortunate that that hasn’t happened just yet but I’m positive it’ll be amazing once you guys implement it and RU-vid improves it!
I really appreciate this video. As someone who has only recently had the means to invest in better tech, it's disappointing how infrequent I get to leverage the extra features. It's reassuring to know that this disappointment is felt on both ends.
HDR is 3DTVs all over again, the vast majority don't care because they just want as cheap of a display as possible, even more so nowadays what with the cost of living skyrocketing.
In this video you talk about the problems with HDR content on RU-vid, but as a Creator I think the problems start with SDR content! I try to explain this. I upload videos using 21:9 aspect ratio, and these are mostly in 1080p. To be more accurate, the resolution is 2560 × 1080. However, RU-vid recognizes that resolution as 1080p and converts it to the default 40MBit/s Bitrate, which is suitable for a Full HD 16:9 content. However, as the number of pixels in my case is significantly higher than in Full HD, the quality becomes automatically worse, and you see artefacts like squares as a result of a Bitrate which is too low. To confirm this theory, I also uploaded the same video in 16:9, by simply removing the pixels in excess. This resulted in no artefacts and the quality was much better. My theory is that in many cases, RU-vid simply uses the wrong configurations and profiles. You have already confirmed this with HDR content. But it is even getting worse. RU-vid also uses an incorrect profile for videos in 4K, with an aspect ratio of 21:9. With this combination, RU-vid deletes some pixels because it expects an aspect ratio of 2.35:1 instead of 2.39:1 (I hope I didn't mix the numbers up). The difference is minimal, but the end result is not identical. I am aware that 21:9 is still a relatively rare aspect ratio, but newer smartphones do use displays that have an aspect ratio between 18:9 and 21:9. In the end, I can confirm your problem about this topic, even for non HDR content. I hope it helps someone. Maybe somebody faced the same issue as me.
I mostly watch RU-vid on my OLED TV, where HDR works just fine and it tells me which format it’s in. I think it’s working on my iPad too but it doesn’t flash it up to tell me in the same way. It sucks that it doesn’t look right on regular PCs though. The first HDR content which impressed me instead of just having boosted saturation was Knives Out. The foggy nights and mornings had so much detail in their grey colours, the upholstery had such depth of colour, and the scenes with heavy light and shadow had so much detail in both. Yet it was recorded on film, which has more range than SDR, but average film has not as much as the best sensors. So I look forward to seeing where it can go in the future.
if you are using a TV 1. turn off dynamic tone mapping. if you see Hgig than use that. 2. use Window HDR calibration tool. than things will look correct. this also helps gaming as well. this removes the TV from adjusting the tone mapping on the fly. aka the TV is guessing and has no clue what it should be doing. This means only the OS or the game controls the mapping directing leading to a better image.
The funny part is tons of content on instagram is HDR, since they easily handle user's HDR footage. RU-vid is the one platform where I almost never see HDR.
Great video! Developing an accessible HDR workflow for RU-vid has been a bit of an obsession of mine over the last few years, so I'm glad to see one of the big tech channels covering the struggles that come along with it. RU-vid's lack of proper support for HDR10+ and Dolby Vision metadata is certainly disappointing, and something I do hope they address in the future. I agree that their default LUT almost always produces subpar results, especially compared to some of the more standard color management systems out there. I've even run into some bizarre issues whereby the SDR versions of HDR uploads suffer from strange compression artifacts which otherwise wouldn't be present. I have been able to develop an HDR workflow for RU-vid that's been working quite well for me personally, but it's highly dependent on Davinci Resolve's more advanced color management tools, and isn't suitable for Premiere (at least, not until Adobe gets their HDR act together.) I have detailed guides on my channel, but the gist of it is that I've been using Resolve's ACES color management to preview the SDR conversion of my videos while I'm editing them in HDR, then I attach a custom LUT to my video file which performs the exact same transform as the one Resolve uses internally. By using a custom LUT during both editing and upload, I have been able to upload content in HDR without compromising the SDR viewing experience, however, the process does place some limits on the HDR viewing experience. Since the custom LUT is only static, rather than dynamic, it means that I often can't "push" my HDR color grades to be as bright or vibrant as I might like them to be without ruining the SDR conversion. Personally, I think that's an acceptable compromise while we all wait for RU-vid (and Resolve) to properly support HDR10+, but it is certainly sub-optimal. I hope that if big RU-vidrs like yourself make enough noise, RU-vid might finally get their act together!
Also using ACES for my HDR workflow but the Rec709 ODT isn't the greatest tbh, much better than the standard SDR conversion on RU-vid though. I'm using a custom ST2084/2020 (P3 D65 limited) to Rec709 conversion instead, which leads to far better results, especially with colorful, bright lights.
I'm the Production Manager at LMG and have been dealing with the HDR stuff for us. It's not that we don't have a workflow (especially now that PPro supports HDR in-viewer while Resolve still requires an output card...), it's that there's no point in the additional export, upload, processing time in addition to the grading time if the HDR grade is limited by the SDR grade. If we can't push the HDR grade to be bright/vibrant for effect, then there's really no point since 95% of what we do comfortably fits within the bounds of SDR. So, we CAN do it, I have our process documented and repeatable but it's just not worth it.
@@edzelyago2840 Yeah that makes sense :) I have found that my process does tend to lead to dimmer HDR grades than grading in HDR first and then creating a dynamic SDR trim. There is still a noticeable benefit to the HDR, in my experience, but the results are definitely milder so I can see how it might not present a very compelling upgrade, especially considering how much extra work is involved. At the end of the day, I work in HDR largely just because I can (I'm just one guy, not a whole production house delivering dozens of videos a week) and because I like exploring new workflows and pushing the technology beyond what's required or practical. If I were producing content under such a rigorous schedule, I probably wouldn't bother either. My dream is that someday HDR content will be everywhere, including on RU-vid, but in order to get there the process definitely needs to get much more accessible and robust. Maybe someday delivering in HDR will be as simple as setting up a project, grading on an HDR display, and then ticking the right boxes in the export window. But we're just not there yet. It may be a chicken and the egg situation, though, as well. RU-vid doesn't put any effort into streamlining the HDR workflow because nobody delivers in HDR, and nobody delivers in HDR because the process is so unnecessarily complicated. Hopefully getting the word out will move the needle in the right direction :)
@@edzelyago2840 Do you even know if anyone will notice the difference between SDR videos though? I have never seen any complaints about SDR on HDR videos (on my channel, not this personal account, or others like Digital Foundry), not one. It seems like viewers really don't care about this, they would just like the HDR option that you refuse to give because of a slight difference to the SDR version that goes unnoticed.
Personally, before they work on more video options, I would prefer they work on adding options for multi-channel audio and positional audio (Atmos, Dolby DTX).
i would love to have the confidence to upload a video of mine in HDR. I've experimented with publishing in 8k, sending a 100GB+ ProRes file, but it takes 12+ hours for YT to process it. ProRes because the M1 max MBP renders it faster than H.264 in 8k. 8k vs 4k after YT processing on the same video shows a color shift, and this is all in SDR, so I can't imagine the difference in HDR. Creators are also experimenting with things like anamorphic 2.39 : 1 aspect ratio. Currently, you can't use end screens for those videos. It would be great if RU-vid allowed creators who wanted to, the tools to experiment with features like HDR and anamorphic
This is interesting because it reminds me of what a producer goes through when mixing and mastering tracks Our setup is undoubtedly more precise than your home speakers and for some of us, we have to do sound tests because we may run into issues when it comes to playing a compressed file through a streaming service
@@azetyler Theatres do the bare minimum for standards compliance WRT acoustics and distortion levels. The bar for compliance is from the 90's. And was generous even then. A room will be outfitted by "installers" who have massive upcharges on particular brands they partner with for the speakers and such. So you are getting an expert to deliver an inferior experience than what someone who googles what the best speakers to put in a theatre wall would be.
@@alyssacrypto okay but my point is, if theatres and homes both don't have speakers that can deliver whatever the mixer wants. Shouldn't they mix it to something that won't be so bad for most people and release a seperate version for the people who want the high quality sound.
They kind of do. On blu-ray, you have the options of using lossless codecs such as TrueHD vs lossy codecs like Dolby Digital +. But when it comes to having two sonically different masters, it wouldnt really make sense since no two rooms are the same. 90% of the time, crappy sounding masters are due to a persons room. Small/square rooms in most households are very bad acoustically speaking.
Use Dolby Vision as your rendering output, it has derived HDR10 - while YT doesn't support DV, your authoring would be simpler. You won't need to upload HDR or SDR footage separately.
I really love videos like this. On the WAN show the other week, you discussed how your Black Magic equipment was a similar 'bust' in terms of an investment. I'd love a similar video about the troubles encountered when dealing with such _at-the-edge_ technology like that.
I did a quick search and couldn't find the WAN show episode in question but I'm interested in it. Do you perhaps remember which WAN show episode that was?
@@mariokotlar303 I found it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qjw8ohwZ4nY.html I've tweeted at Brandon and Linus asking for more detail.
RU-vid could also easily have bothered to support multiple audio tracks so that multilingual creators don’t have to operate separate channels yet here we are. RU-vid simple doesn’t give a darn
Insanely good video. Very educational on several different levels and at the same time informative as to the problem at hand and why it hasn't been fixed to this point even. Absolutely amazing video.
love this so much, as someone dealing with HDR daily , its infuriating how inconsistent everything is :-) Insanely good rundown , really appreciate it, well researched!
While i agree for the most part, please do keep in mind YT is dealing with BILLIONS of videos, Not thousands or millions. Adding a 1kb metadata file to a video results in loads more data stored and transferred, immediately. So imho, i don't want YT to meddle with 8k and HDR too much. I want better quality 1080 and 4k because THAT'S what the majority of us run. (HDR is welcome if it's nice and relatively lightweight 👍) Hard to stay up to date when you need to scale that to billions. Even when they fix something, it might result in a million broken videos, which is only 0,1% of every billion videos! Nothing is an easy fix at this scale. YT being online, all these videos available 24/7 is a massive blessing that we shouldn't underestimate. They should fix problems though. But don't add anything new like 8k when it's so much heavier and only used by 0.x% of users.. 🤷🏼
When I read the headline [This was all a waste of money.] I thought it was gonna be about all the super expensive 8K RED cameras and property peripherals Linus has bought in the past.
I wish I could use HDR more, but even on my Odyssey Neo G9, enabling HDR in both Windows AND MacOS turns everything SDR (including the desktop and all apps outside videos) dim, grey and super washed out. So even if all new RU-vid content was HDR, I likely still wouldn't be able to watch it without ruining the look of literally every other part of the UI
@@helloguy8934 yeah I got windows working well, just cranked the sdr brightness slider up. Mac is a different story, but it's a work machine so not really important. It might be better on the m1 machines but I don't have one yet (soon, though) - although without the Radeon GPU they apparently have a lot of problems with the 5120x1400 resolution. This one is limited to 120hz as it is
9:41 OMG! I once saw RU-vid short in my mobile feed that would shoot up my brightness while playing and then drop it back to normal when I scrolled away. I couldn't figure out for the life of me why this was happening and now I finally know. Thanks!
Honestly, I think a lot of the lackluster demand for HDR video content is because of the overdone ultra-sharpened and saturated HDR photos that took off when it first became available. Everybody was shooting them and uploading them. None of them look good or right, they are always used in real-estate listings; but most importantly, they are ALWAYS trash.
HDR is also still a gimmick for most because even if you have a TV/monitor that claims HDR compatibility, those important nits are one key factor in determining whether what your eyes actually see are giving you the quality that you might expect (in so many cases the answer is a resounding no).
As a musician it kinda feels like the more expensive instrument question. 99% of the audience wouldn't even notice if you played on a match box instead of a Stradivarius. It's about the music and the skill of the players, not the imperceptible quality difference of the instrument. For RU-vid it'd be 1000x times more important to have a slightly better algorithm or to make the ads slightly less scammy or the have loading times reduced by 0.1 sec etc etc. I totally understand that they don't really take this too serious to be honest.
Huh, good timing on this one. I just upgraded to an HDR OLED TV this week, and was excited to see what my favorite creators were doing with it. Turns out nothing, and now I know why. Hopefully this gets worked out soon, as even when the content isn't a flashy blockbuster, HDR still looks so much better.
Well no, there is a lot of good HDR content on youtube, it looks great. They LTT refuse to make HDR content because SDR might look slightly different. So slight that nobody will notice... Digital Foundry occasionally does HDR, there is never even one complaint that the SDR looks off, just complements on the stunning HDR.
@@kidShibuya Not sure if this is an example of that problem, but I noticed(for the first time ever) immediately from this footage: /watch?v=zI9RlRnvn6M Is that just bad upload or HDR->SDR being horrible? If someone with HDR monitor could check it out and report back, I'd be interested to hear how it looks there, because for me(on SDR display) it's super muddy image, enough to immediately bother me.
My experience when trying to use a LUT in VSDC (video editing software I use) it creates a lot of banding when there is a large area with the same color such as a wall. I just recently started using it and have gotten comments that my video quality seems to have gone down and looks somewhat out of focus. So I quit using it. I do however still edit and upload in 4K.
You are likely shooting in 8bit mode/8 bit camera. This creates a problem because you only have 255 values per color. If you do grading(Especially heavier) you want at least 10 bit.
Good afternoon Good afternoon. First of all I want to thank you for uploading this video! I want to say something in this context, I've been uploading 4K 60FPS HDR videos from my Playstation 5 to RU-vid for a short time. The Playstation 5 can record videos in 4K 60 FPS and HDR. It has an integrated recording program. At some point I noticed that some of my videos were shown on RU-vid after uploading them in 4K 60FPS HDR and others ONLY in 4K 60 FPS and NO HDR! …... I wrote to RU-vid several times on Twitter and explained the problem to them in detail. They also answered me properly and I also got the impression that they recognized the problem and took it seriously. They asked me for RU-vid links to the videos in question and I sent them to them. Then they asked me for photos that show that some videos have HDR available and some don't. I also sent them the photos. Then I made a minute-long video in which you can see me switching back and forth between the HDR and the non-HDR video to show that one has HDR and the other doesn't. I also made it clear that this problem also occurs in other videos of mine. This is the last text I got from RU-vid on Twitter a few days ago: thx for the vid. since you've already submitted a feedback report, know that we'll investigate it carefully, but our team doesn’t necessarily respond to every single one. note: you might not get a response back, but we do check all of them & use the info you share to fix possible widespread issues Unfortunately, I now have to upload my videos twice and three times and four and nine times until RU-vid finally manages to upload them in 4K 60FPS and HDR! I always delete the remaining videos without HDR after a few days! I have to say that I find it absolutely strange that RU-vid, one of the largest platforms in the world, is NOT able to upload HDR!!! very very strange! Does anyone here have a tip for me on how I can immediately upload my HDR videos to RU-vid as HDR? Maybe a program that can convert the videos so that RU-vid can recognize them better or something? Thanks in advance!
This is more to do with the video container PS5 uses for 4k HDR. Notice the file type gets locked to WebM. Simply put, RU-vid doesn't handle this well. It will take days or more for the video to process and it will likely give up and not create an HDR version. Sharefactory is still extremely basic and the MP4 version rarely works either. To be 100% sure unfortunately you need to use an external capture. I was excited for the feature at launch but unfortunately Sony chose to go with an uncommon/outdated format. I spent days on this, its more a ps5 + youtube problem, webm just doesn't work, not worth the trouble.
My parents have a pretty old tv it’s still 4K and reasonably bright so I considered upgrading and then realised it ain’t worth it cuz not many videos have 4K uhd or better and fewer still have hdr10 or Dolby vision even on sights like Netflix, after thinking a bit I just got them a washer and dryer and some matching shirts for their anniversary rather than going through the gruelling process of trying to explain them new tech
@@markjohnson7887 I think thats people in general. I game a lot and watch movies. The content matters 1000x more than how HDR it is. HDR would make it look pretty, but if its boring or poorly made content, HDR aint gonna save it.
@@karehaqt Most first party content on Disney+, Netflix, and Amazon all support Dolby Vision and HDR10. If your display doesn't support Dolby Vision, it will fallback to HDR10.
I would be happy if RU-vid didn't always automatically set the resolution to 144p. Internet speed would be enough for 4k 60fps. But no, I have to adjust it myself every time. It is frustrating.
@@fortenhu Enhancer for RU-vid is the one I use; Firefox - not sure about Chrome. Pretty extensive customisation of the RU-vid experience, I have it all set how I like it on a 34" UW monitor. Much better than the default RU-vid experience.
and on a side note, having a good production, is better than going nuts on one topic, mistakes happen and you get side-tracked, even though you know that the outcome is pretty amazing, still, making a mistake is an opportunity to see something in a different view-point
I think another big thing RU-vid needs to work on is their compression. Even watching the 4K version of videos, I'm still seeing blocks float around the screen in some places. It's very distracting. Especially when it's in those areas with no moving pixels. Like the TV behind Linus. Every time he moved, the blocky pixels moved with him. Those should be a static image. Either that or RU-vid needs to finally incorporate uncompressed or lossless compression in their uploads.
And not just that, but they keep re-encoding videos. A 10 year-old video will look much worse than it did on day 1. AV1 cannot come soon enough for streaming. Provided that they encode in AV1 from the source, not the already destroyed H264
@@Oshadorin AV1 is not supported on like 99% of the hardware. It will take time. On the computer side, RTX 3000, RX 6000 and Intel Xe-based platforms were the first generation to include support for Hardware AV1. And doing it in software is too taxing for the CPU.
@@sherlockmaverick it's supported on pretty much any desktop browser and newer android phones, you don't need hardware on desktop and it's even possible to do software on mobile, although more costly in terms of battery
@@Oshadorin They seem to reencode from the source material. I think storage isn't that much of. A problem for them, only data transfer and the also won't have the original on the CDN around the world.
Another question on top of this one. Why do you shoot in 4k+? I feel like a large majority are watching in 1080p. I understand that it can help you do some things in editing but is it worth all the extra money for gear and data storage?
On top of this if you buy an HD movie off of their movie section that is supposed to be atleast "HD", meaning either 720p or 1080p, the movies you buy will be 480p and you can't increase it. RU-vid removed 720p and above streaming on movies back when the pandemic started and have not enabled it back. Enjoy your movies. Apparently only Mac users can still enjoy 1080p movies with Opera browser tho.
I understand why HDR is amazing for movies BUT for a youtube video basically reviewing tech, I see no reson to view it in HDR, I actually find it really annoying when the screen suddenly goes super bright!
that's why it is important for youtube to include A BRIGHTNESS BAR as HDR will fetch full brightness on your TV or phone. HDR looks so much better than SDR
Thank you! Imagine the amount of money Linus has wasted on 8K cameras (when no one even has an 8K display), the amount wasted on more powerful servers for editing 8K, money wasted on the storage server to store said 8K video, money wasted on editors, etc., etc.. All for something that no one in his audience actually cares about.
@@markjohnson7887 I would not say that it is all wasted money though since recordning in 8k gives you a lot more flexibilty when editing, although I agree that they are trying to achive quality which is unnecessarily good
@@kooooooooooorvar For sure. I mean, only about 40% of people own even a 4K TV for example. And by the time 8K TV's/Monitors are popular, all of Linus' 8K content will be irrelevant and no one will be watching it. lol
You guys need to look at this from the provider side instead of the creator side. 4K HDR files take up tremendous amounts of space and the quality improvement is largely irrelevant since the vast majority of people are either viewing said content on a mobile device or a desktop screen that's 1440p or less. It simply isn't practical to exponentially scale server storage "just because it's [current year]." And before you start saying: "BUT BUT.. drives are cheap now!" Yes, storage is getting cheaper but you need to compound that with energy costs, bandwidth costs, and server farm real estate space. I work for a SaaS company whose primary product is a digital signage CMS. We actively encourage clients to upload content that's standard HD H264 MP4 content because that's what's practical for their devices and our servers. For the average person, HD content really is 'good enough.'
I’m currently a CS50 student and this year, their classes have been released in HDR. Watching it on my iPhone 13, this footage looks so amazing. You truly appreciate the amount of colours and the range of Luma values you get with HDR
While I'm not as worried about HDR vs. non-HDR as other things with RU-vid, I really do enjoy and appreciate these kinds of technical breakdowns. I learned what HDR is on a practical level for a software package I use - YT - and that's pretty cool. Thanks Linus!
The HDR videos hijacking my phone's brightness is the WORST. I do not care at all about increased color quality if I lose control over my own device. I have skipped videos when HDR was the only hi definition options.
I own 2 older OLED TVs and I watch 99% in rec 709, even when I have the option. Except in a dark home theater they don’t offer satisfying HDR. The SDR, on the other hand, looks fantastic:)
So what you're saying is, I'm not getting the best image quality on my six year old TracFone with a cracked screen and screen protector made out of clear package tape?
I remember having to use 480p sometimes on my first phone because 60fps video caused it to lag. That's something that sounds fixable though if youtube allowed better resolution options
The V30 isn't that old, nor "underpowered." That's just weird. Older Android version not compatible with the latest version of YT and other video player apps I'm assuming? To a degree, older devices are just gonna get left behind, but that's seriously far from "old enough for the HDR video specs to be too much for it"
I genuinely do not care about HDR with the kind of content I consume on RU-vid. I watch everything from my phone, and have never had the thought of "I should move this video to my C1 so I can appreciate it more".
Yes, this, a simple AB test will show that most people don't care nor can tell the difference. Watching a movie or playing something on my PS5, sure. Watching a video on some laptop ASUS pooped out while I was sleeping... not so much.
@@jwarendsen Then they shouldn't say that supports HDR10+ at all, because it clearly doesn't, this is mostly misleading statements, meant to impress the investors as always . . .
@@jwarendsen bingo. I don't even have my display on most of the time. I just have it running for background sound while I do other shit. A review of a new laptop, or benchmark testing a new piece of hardware, isn't worth the investment needed to film for HDR.
i think all youtubers should collectively put all their concerns about the platform into a group and demand that they get a reply from youtube about what they’re going to do about them
Couldn't care less about HDR as most of the time I consume longer format videos. Quality of the video doesn't make too much difference as long as audio is great. Rather than increasing video quality RU-vid should focus more on - Decreasing video size without compromising with quality too much. As it increases accessibility to areas with crappy internet connection. - Make more data available to user. like retention graph on time line. Useful to find good part of video.
You turn it down to 144, bump the speed, turn off the screen and wear headphones like me? There are an amazing collection of channels whose content plays well treated as radio.
I think it all comes down to the fact that it's the majority of people don't have a display that support 4k + HDR. When it becomes industry standard like it already is for new streaming content, maybe then they will reconsider.
This is a well timed video. I just bought myself a Quantom-Dot HDR600 monitor and I'm starting to realize HDR content is harder to come by on PC than you'd thing. I mainly got it for games, to be fair, but I was hoping to really enjoy video content again.
I tried running my HDR TV on my mac, but mac doesnt even properly support HDR lol, its like how you describe the tone mapping, any SDR content is compressed to a super small part of the actual dynamic range. Its insane how little such a popular technology is supported by these tech giants
The only way to get HDR on a Mac without crazy expensive equipment (I heard there are some expensive adaptors for it) are the new Pro MacBooks, or the Pro Display XDR. Anything else won't show HDR.
@@gfrewqpoiu “the only way to get HDR on a Mac without crazy expensive equipment is with crazy expensive equipment” I have no interest in apple products, they are little more than bad expensive paperweights
That reminds me a bit about my confusion (back around 2005-2015) after hearing how important 10-bit was for photographers and graphic designers (so that they could get the colours just right) and how many of them used Macs and had done that for years and swore by them and their colour accuracy. Now, that in itself isn't too weird, until you realize that Macs (AFAIK) didn't start supporting 10-bit until (OS X) El Capitan, in 2015.
atm, im pretty happy with the player. sure could be better, but its perfectly usable. im always hoping for multiple audio channels. would be cool to have music and voice levels split. maybe game sound and voice. maybe they could even let you edit one, if any dmca issue comes up.
For how long RU-vid has been around, and the talent and money they have available, I'd say "perfectly usable" just isn't good enough, they should be innovating. Just my 2 cents
Dolby Vision is the best implementation of HDR in my opinion. Profile 8.1 allows backwards compatibility with HDR10 and SDR devices, so it's like three in one.
Linus I know LMG has so much going on but I think a gaming leg being added to LMG like Mac Address would be such a great addition. Everything you tackle seems to get proper attention and more balanced and complete info than other outlets/channels. Keep up the great work! High five to the entire team at LMG.
I'm subscribed to Mac Address and I never see the videos in my feed. They would have to do a better job of integrating and promoting a gaming channel than they do with MA.
Between this and RU-vid unjustly taking down The Actman for criticizing RU-vid recently RU-vid has left me scratching my head. If they wanted to make the platform better, company product videos would be required to have likes and dislikes reinstated with them allowed for tutorial style videos to help avoiding the scam problem. Also the uprising of spam script bots and scams in RU-vid comment section making it less and less usable each month
I have actually had serious issues with watching HDR videos on youtube, to the extent that it has caused me to just close some videos. One of the biggest issues has been that HDR videos override my ability to control brightness (on my phone, at least) and the brightness selected is always WAY too high.
I produce HDR content in my free time and to the best of my knowledge brightness being WAY too high should be the fault of authors of that content who badly mastered it. While it should be possible for users to adjust it themselves exactly due to this situation, I'd be very interested to know if you find my most recent HDR video upload on my channel from few days ago to also be too high, or would you say that brightness is just right and you feel no need to reduce it?
@@INTERNETDWARF That's very interesting, thanks for checking! May I ask which HDR monitor you are using? Some monitors boost brightness in HDR to be stronger than it should be, and I really wonder if this might be the case here, or if it really is just a matter of personal preference.
@@INTERNETDWARF That explains it! This phone over brightens the HDR video far beyond what it is supposed to look like. You can see this for yourself on the xda review of its screen.
I think it was a failure not uploading this video in HDR so we could actually see how detrimental it was to quality. I would have actually gone a step further and made it two parts. Part 1 in HDR and Part 2 in SDR to show how funky the colors get between them.
I just stumbled on an awesome clip from Prehistoric Planet and was weirded out by how bad the white balance and or tonemapping is. /watch?v=zI9RlRnvn6M I figured it was because the footage was in HDR and youtube converted it badly for SDR, but clearly there are major problems with the whole HDR situation. It'd be interesting to hear from someone with HDR display if that clip looks good or still muddy.
I'll trade HDR for 60fps anytime. If most of us are "gamers", then fps rules. When you watch GN videos, even if they can be monotonous sometimes, the 60fps inmediatly stands out. You want to talk about "true to life" well, you don't realize until you watch something at 60fps how that is what seems natural and not the ancient 24fps or even the modern 30
This needs more likes. Sure I can watch LTT in crazy resolutions, but anything running at 1080p60 like Paul's Hardware honestly is so much more pleasurable to watch for me
@@fierce134 Linus already said that their camera men don't want 60fps. They will not make the change unless there is a very very strong push from audience. And if Floatplane can't handle 60fps, then they will never do it
We recently released a nature film on Netflix called Puff Wonders of the Reef. A COVID production, we ended up doing the grade remotely and it was IMPOSSIBLE - there was never any continuity between what the colorist saw on his fancy HDR monitor, yet what we saw was just jank. And we want through several "hdr" of monitors and screens, to no success. Heck, even continuity from the camera to the directors monitor on-set is a hard enough challenge...
i personally don't like HDR on my phone because the screen always goes to maximum brightness and it's uncomfortable when it's dark, and you can't switch it off
HLG is actually a good sweet spot for HDR content. It delivers quite good HDR values on RU-vid, but also usable SDR values and is also recognized very well by RU-vid as HDR-HLG content during conversion. HLG only has half the stops compared to PQ. When converting HDR videos, RU-vid uses a mastering display luminance with values of min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2. So if you render an HDR video for youtube you should keep the values for the project in mind
What most forget to take into consideration are the internet speeds most of us people are running , many of us are on less than 10mbps connections , so even if we want to watch in HDR , our data bandwidth would make the experience crappy af.