This Was Going To Change Mountain Bike Suspension Forever! | GMBN Tech Show 306

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In this week's GMBN Tech Show, Anna Cipullo is joined by Owen Coutts, to talk all things linkage suspension forks from brands such as Trust and Quasar. In the rest of the show, we look at the new Santa Cruz V10 and the Raaw Madonna V3, and your usual favourites including Top Mods, this week’s Quiz and much more!
⏱️ Timestamps ⏱️
00:00 - Intro
00:24 - Why didn't the linkage fork stick around?
07:49 - News | New Santa Cruz V10 | New Raaw Madonna
12:53 - Quiz
13:20 - Top Mods
15:24 - Comments
17:27 - Quiz
18:36 - This Week
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Опубликовано:

1 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 94

@Ali_Clarkson 8 месяцев назад

I had a Trust fork, it was pretty nice! Mine was the 130mm version and I took it to the alps and it held up nicely. It worked really nicely for high speed chatter/roots as it was supple from head-on impacts, it was also really stiff and the only moving parts were the linkages not the chassis so it felt like you had more control of dialling in the feel. The downside was that it didn't like vertical impacts as much, the initial rearward axle path made it feel a bit harsh when landing drops, it was also pretty ugly, heavy and expensive. I was really curious to try the Structure linkage frame/fork...it seems designing a system/chassis to work as a unit could be the best option rather than trying to retrofit a linkage fork onto an existing frame.

@mechpade 8 месяцев назад

Hey, more Structure bike reviews on the internet the better! Please try and make a video with Structure and compare as you are the only RU-vid person I know that have documented Trust and Motion E18 forks use. We'd appreciate it!

@EMTB17 8 месяцев назад

Such a piece of shit that fork is

@davidpinnington213 8 месяцев назад

Ali's fuss free review swung it for myself buying a Trust aeven after they went bump albeit with Spez buying the IP so it'll be back at some point maybe

@dylan-5287 8 месяцев назад

Haha I always thought they looked cool in a strange sort of way. Really hope I can try one at some point.

@icoopify 8 месяцев назад

I have the 130 mm Trust fork also, and it's great for the reasons that Ali mentions, especially the stiffness for me as a larger rider.

@willhoonforfood4463 8 месяцев назад

I still run a Trust Shout and I absolutely love it. I love it so much that I’m on the lookout for another!

@matt_acton-varian 8 месяцев назад

Last week's Dirt Shed show turned into a riot as Martin and Jonesey dropping F bombs left right and centre. Wasn't expecting one from Anna 😂😂 although forgetting which section you are introducing can easily bring it out.

@sageoz9886 8 месяцев назад

There was also the Look Fournales fork, as well as an integrated linkage fork on an old Nuke Proof design

@makeitwithmurm 8 месяцев назад

Had an old girvin proflex fork, had to swap the elastomer with a coil spring. But it was awesome om small bumps/gravel

@JackElliott-qf7cb 8 месяцев назад

Best forks ever 👍

@albikes8484 8 месяцев назад

Ive owned Amp forks in both 1.5 inch and the 3 inch carbon model. And have also owned a Girvin likage fork. The amp forks were on the stiff side travel wise. But noodly steering wise. The girven fork was quite supple and steered well for its era. But much bigger and heavier. I have ridden a Control tech linkage fork. And was quite impressed with its ride quality. the 90s was crazy with strange ideas. Some worked. Some didnt. Ive also used linkage stems like the Softride stems.

@yakboyuk 8 месяцев назад

I have a Custom Girvin/Noleen Fat bike fork. The J path works very well. I don't need huge amounts of travel on the bike, the Noleen NR1 shock is high up and away from the Crud and I can run Fork Cages. What's not to like. Also have some AMP F1 forks on a retro Nishiki Alien. Whilst the travel is pitiful, the action and small bump absorption is fantastic, so a bit of a linkage fan and I was intrigued by the Trust forks, although sadly never got to demo any

@pasiedonify 8 месяцев назад

I got a Trust 180 for my Yeti SB165 to make it a mullet, absolutely loved the fork but because I was going to the Alps I decided to put a standard fork incase of mechanicals, then they went bust so never put it back on. Hard to describe why it felt so good, like you said doesn’t dive, great when you hit square edges, don’t get thrown forward, keeps momentum but it is bloody noisy, because the entire fork is carbon and mostly hollow so anything that touches it while riding can be quite loud…after watching this video you might just put it back on….definitely turns heads

@brucec2787 8 месяцев назад

Had a carbon girvin that I rebuilt with revised geometry and longer travel. Best performing front suspension I've ever ridden. Super sharp but plush. Wasn't heavier than a comparable telescoping fork, but would have been expensive to sell.

@GHinWI 8 месяцев назад

The Achilles heel of linkage forks will always be safety/lawsuits. If (actually when) one of the bolts or pivot pins fails by fatigue, the rider is likely to go OTB. Even if something internal to the air spring or damper fails on a telescopic fork, the structure is still there to ride on.

@oggeman00 8 месяцев назад

Great show. Thanks guys ❤

@LaurentiusTriarius 8 месяцев назад

When I had a proflex 856 back in the day I was a huge advocate for it. Then I put a Marzocchi bomber on that bike. Ciao esoteric designs 😂

@andrewsiasparks 8 месяцев назад

If the motorcycle companies keep going back to telescopic suspension there's got to be a reason. The Leading link was supposed to be the future of dirt bikes way back in the day 😂

@leftaroundabout 8 месяцев назад

What's best for motorbikes doesn't necessarily have to be best for MTB. In particular brake dive plays out very different: on an MC the center of mass (combined bike+rider) is much lower, which means brake dive isn't such a strong effect in the first place. In the flip side, an MTB rider can (and will) change the weight distribution much more on the fly. Also different: on MTB, weight is more critical, air springs used instead of MC coil springs, and stiction is more of a problem on MTB but damping more of a problem on MC.

@SW-ku9ji 8 месяцев назад

maybe they're just lazy

@jimig399 8 месяцев назад

@@SW-ku9jithe guy you responded to had a good argument...you killed it with what is likely the truth😂

@andrewsiasparks 8 месяцев назад

@@SW-ku9ji pretty sure they stopped using them because the bearings would get all sloppy from lack of maintenance and the entire front end would shake violently.

@CarsandBikes 8 месяцев назад

I have a trust fork mated to my 2020 stumpjumper. It rides as you noted. Really love it. You guys forgot to talk about EC18 from France. They have a similiar but not as good looking fork

@simo7321 8 месяцев назад

The Polygon Siskiu mtb is now using, more or less the same frame as the Calibre Bossnut was.

@a.sonetwo4547 8 месяцев назад

I just love GMBN and the whole traram about😁💪🏼🤙🏼

@SnelleJellezuidlaren 8 месяцев назад

I still ride this fork and i absolute love it

@SnelleJellezuidlaren 8 месяцев назад

After Trust Performance went bankrupt, I was able to buy such a fork for €700 on eBay. I do all the maintenance myself. I'm not afraid of bearings, it's actually 10 times better than everything that has to slide past each other.

@noelbrown6771 8 месяцев назад

I had a Girvin linkage fork on my Proflex 856. It was dangerous going downhill fast and jumping due to the geometry of the linkage designed to move rearward from impacts. Plus the already steep head tube angles on the bikes back then didn't help either. I would like to see what could be done if that system were corrected with a geometry change to the linkage and run on something with a slack head tube angle. With the linkage multiple you could get something like 3 or 4 to one inches of wheel travel to shock compression. Enough for cross country bikes. Girvin's benefits were less pogoing and sticktion then telescopic forks. They require less increase in overall center of gravity due to the advantage of the linkage ratio and they were light.

@john_7986 8 месяцев назад

Yes I still own an Amp B4 and I still ride it occasionally. It's more of an aggressive gravel bike in today's market though

@markpeterson8978 8 месяцев назад

I love linkage forks, in particular My 1996 IRD works Trailing Link Fork by Dave Ijams and John Castellano. It has the most beautiful feeling especially noticeable at slower speeds. I also have a Girvin mounted up to a 1968 Colombia Rover to create a wicked Klunker. I look forward to see where these technologies go. Great Show as always. I still miss Doddy but I am adapting. Cheers - M

@jimig399 8 месяцев назад

What happened to Doddy? I've been absent for awhile.

@simonm1447 8 месяцев назад

@@jimig399Doddy has a new job now for a bike company and he is no longer at GMBN. He wasn't fired, he had the chance to do it and he chose to do it

@jimig399 8 месяцев назад

@@simonm1447 thanks for taking the time to respond. Would have driven me nuts not knowing what happened. Love Doddy. Wish him well in his new endeavors.

@KDog2264 8 месяцев назад

I would definitely would buy linkage fork if they were cheaper. I have known two people that owned a Trust fork. The said once you get use to them, they are amazing forks to ride on. There only complaints were the price and the didn't come in a longer travel.

@vrwgq3q 8 месяцев назад

I think that the Trust fork makes sense... just never had the demand to drive further evolution... the idea that you have a more stable fork, that operates in a way that doesn't impact HTA on compression, adds stability during compression and using linkages to tune leverage tunes, could out perform telescopic.

@jaypopsti 8 месяцев назад

I’ve ridden a telelever fork on a BMW GS motor bike and after getting used to the lack of dive on breaking it was brilliant. Definitely not a trailing linkage but linkage none the less

@toptenrick 8 месяцев назад

Gary Fisher road a linkage fork for the 1990 World Championships aka LAWELL LEADER PS I was there in Durango CO

@Locklannnn 8 месяцев назад

16:25 although acoustic bike users are not at the mercy of bike shops ebikes users are! if theres anything wrong with the electric side of your ebike (and its down to happen at some point) you do need to bring back the bike to a shop so they can plug it in and use the brand's specific programs (like e-tube for shimano and smartbike lab for mahle) to update, diagnose or change settings so acoustic riders arent there yet but electric riders are

@KenGilbert-yn4qz 8 месяцев назад

Add in the fork flex on big hits (i.e. what you can see in the huck to flat videos) surprising amount even on modern chunkier forks.

@blairrighton6270 8 месяцев назад

the amp b4/b5 was a great linkage fork and imo worked better than any telescopic variant available at the time. Really surprised that suspender forks haven't taken off since the mountain cycle variant in '92. They appeared to be the way forward and the last variant I saw was on a lexus HT carbon Y frame 6/8 years ago

@edu4818 8 месяцев назад

beautiful Raaw bike

@floydblandston108 8 месяцев назад

I've ridden a Girvin on bikes, and a leading link style on motorcycles. For its time, the Girvin was good; the coil spring made it linear in a way that only great damping could have salvaged, and the Noleen shock wasn't even remotely up to the task. Risse made an air shock that brought the design into the 'genuinely useful' category, but stiction made it a bit sudden; combine that with a sort of "j-curve" in the linkage which let the axle travel back before up, and it could be a handful. On motorcycles (where weight is less of a penalty) leading links are a go-to for sidecar usage, where steering forces quickly get beyond what stanchions can master. If you want to genuinely scare yourself, go watch the video Pinkbike made of bikes jumping to flat. Stanchion forks can look pretty sketchy in such circumstances.

@jeffreyhoops3611 8 месяцев назад

I still have a bike with an Amp research fork as well as one with a Girvin/Noleen fork. The Girvin in particular is super stiff and bomb proof. I think the limiting factor of both these forks is travel. Ps: love your videos!

@olivercycloholic3437 8 месяцев назад

the ONLY point against a thrust fork was the price, which indeed prevented me from buying it. the rest is just almost perfect and exactly what i would want to have on my bike.

@JackElliott-qf7cb 8 месяцев назад

Still can't beat quasar or noleen forks up front . With Noleen CS carbon being #1

@hardtailharry6812 8 месяцев назад

That muc off coating might work . Every now and then I cover my whole frame in muc off dry lube and I literally have been rinsing my bike with a weed sprayer thing and the dirt falls off .

@malikridesmtb 8 месяцев назад

I've been riding a Trust Shout fork since late 2020.... Almost 3 years to date and I would say that's the most exciting, comfortable ride I've ever experienced. I just love the stability and control on steep descends and the amazing control on cornering and germs on trust forks. I have no complaints at all and I've been shifting the fork from one bike to another replacing the conventional telescopic fork. Only worry I have is the routine 250 hour service which not all the bike workshops are competent to do. However, Suspension Syndicate in Utah does the service and all the necessary parts for the Trust fork is available with them. Overall in my opinion it's a trouble free, less maintenance fork than a normal fork

@kevinxodemonth 8 месяцев назад

It took me a while to figure out what bike was the Colour Babasnah actually was!

@REB4444 8 месяцев назад

What's funny is that so many RU-vid influencers were raving on this suspension as if they were getting paid to do so yet...do you ever see any of them using it a year later?

@ltrtg13 8 месяцев назад

I can name a linkage fork you didn't mention. The Motion Ride E18. How about Structure Cycles. Or does a fork that needs a dedicated frame not count?

@user-yv2cz8oj1k 8 месяцев назад

I always though the main problem with the trust fork was it stuck out like a sore thumb. I half expected them to design a whole frame to suit it, which could have been cool. As for the weight, I always wondered if Cannondale were going to license it to create a Trust/Lefty hybrid fork.

@gmbntech 8 месяцев назад

Very interesting 🤔 Having a linkage style lefty fork would be close to the weight of the standard lefty fork, but I imagine the wheel would have too much lateral movement due to all the stress point on the linkage.

@feedbackzaloop 8 месяцев назад

Linkage forks don't make much sense as a replacement for telescopic forks. But incorporated in frame structure like Whyte PRST-1 featured on the channel or SCW1 is what I'd gladly have. Probably even more sophisticated than these two

@maxdesancha6025 8 месяцев назад

I has question: ON an long slack hardtail - is their any particular disadvantage/advantage of a coil fork? (Beyond the usual pros/cons)

@julianw5692 8 месяцев назад

I'm very excited for the braking video. I've been debating for a month whether to increase rotor size or go to 4pot.

@FOTB407 8 месяцев назад

Both!

@julianw5692 8 месяцев назад

@@FOTB407 tis the plan. I'ma do rotors first as then I can also upgrade to metal pads. Current rotors are resin only.

@stuartmoseley 8 месяцев назад

Despite all the Trust fork benefits its major skill was to make the most sexy bike fugly!

@avocette 8 месяцев назад

The perfect middleground of bearing-based, nonlinkage fork is the internals of the Cannondale Lefty. Nearly no stiction at all, ungodly levels of sensitivity. If only somebody made a less overbuilt but dual-legged version of it 😔😔

@jmo2752 8 месяцев назад

It's still a wig, just a shorter one ;o)

@RJ_Groot 8 месяцев назад

I think the combination of its unusual looks, higher price and the fact that it was only marginally better in performance (in theory)was its failure to launch. I thought it looked pretty cool because it was so crazy but I'm sure a lot of people just didn't want to be that different without some type of magical performance increase.

@gmbntech 8 месяцев назад

You're probably right, looks do play a big part in what makes it to market in mountain biking. There are a few other components that have shown increases in performance and have the science to back it up, but because the part looks strange people back them unfortunately!

@ltrtg13 8 месяцев назад

Was Owen talking about Rich or Sam Pilgrim. When he mentioned the trail wheel truing video?

@zwingler 8 месяцев назад

These forks mightve still been revolutionary if they didnt cost 2 Thousand fucking euro / dollar. If you ask me if I want a complete high end rockshox suspension package or something experimental obviusly im gonna go for the proven package.

@nelsonho8327 8 месяцев назад

Girvin is the best

@cullaneven5580 8 месяцев назад

Owen had his wig trimmed! 😂

@cullaneven5580 8 месяцев назад

I hope it grows back.

@danielburke7012 8 месяцев назад

Had a blast on a whytes with that crazy front end years back at Llandegla it put the fear of god in my arss did not enjoy it

@michaeldevilliers2443 8 месяцев назад

But will it be usable for xc racing

@Ferrari255GTO 8 месяцев назад

I have nothing against linkage forks, but i don't see them making sense unless it is for thoose hardcore top end riders, for casuals and other people who just wanna have fun a regular fork is incredibly reliable and robust, i see no way how such a thing could become mainstream just like it happened with inverse forks, they're great but neish, and the inverse forks are close enough to the traditional ones that i think they should have become more common by now...

@craigbest8644 8 месяцев назад

I think it comes down to asthestics with the forks, linkage forks just look strange.

@user-yv2cz8oj1k 8 месяцев назад

Signed copy sold out in 24 hours? I think I had mine ordered within about 5 minutes of spotting it. 🤣

@thehigsy 8 месяцев назад

Dang, missed my signed copy. @gmbn ?? Any chance ?

@user-yv2cz8oj1k 8 месяцев назад

@@thehigsy Well I only bought one copy to give other people a chance, I bet some other people bought multiples.

@bike314 8 месяцев назад

I'm confused How can the front wheel move back and the bike get longer?

@rantingwrench 8 месяцев назад

It doesn't. Poor Anna was way out of her depth trying to explain this, and Owen couldn't get a word in edgeways to correct her.

@joeevans6884 8 месяцев назад

I don’t understand why the book is $27 and you are required to track the book and charge $22 for the service. Count me out!

@petererbse6253 8 месяцев назад

I think there's a good reason to why front suspension on motorcycles and bikes are not linkage forks. I think it just works so good for that it's not ideal. And it's probably also a design thing at least on a bicycle.

@laeljon 8 месяцев назад

I've had 5 linkage forks. Currently running three linkage forks. Got spoiled in the nineties. Amp , German Kilo, Motion E-18 is French....

@davidpinnington213 8 месяцев назад

I have a trust fork on my rig - its butt ugly but for my trails which are steep and free of jumps I would not use tele - did around and any decent anti dive fork on motorycles (brittain bimota bmw have all used linkages plus try and find a racing sidecar outfit without one - once you add another 150 kg to a bike teles dod not work - that said trust etc still butt ugly

@ivor6168 8 месяцев назад

HRC in motocross 40+ years ago tried and tested linkage forks , they have never been developed as they don't work for the intended purpose

@darrenwall5439 8 месяцев назад

Normal forks for me thanks 💚

@SW-ku9ji 8 месяцев назад

I had a leading link Fork on my first dirt bike,

@jmo2752 8 месяцев назад

The high-pivot analogy [for linkage forks] is a good one... both are unnecessarily complicated. The other downside of a linkage fork is the inherent limited travel - it might be fine for XC, but not for 150mm+ Trail/Enduro/Downhill bikes.

@lawrencefranck9417 8 месяцев назад

Because it’s not needed

@matt_acton-varian 8 месяцев назад

16 bearings? The Cannondale Headshok system used 88 needle bearings (4 banks of 22). Amateurs 😜. It meant that the initial start of the stroke was amazing but it had its limitations in size and features. It would be hard to put modern features such as adjustable compression or rebound damping, let alone longer travel, in to such a small unit. It made for a light weight system but with Modern conventional tech developments current XC forks and carbon frames would be just as light as a headshok if made for 29ers.

@nearkolob 8 месяцев назад

Just what the biking industry needs. Another overpriced, over complicated part. Actually, I think a nice budget air fork works just fine.

@garthflint 8 месяцев назад

If an affordable linkage fork came out I would stick it on my ebike instantly. On my trail bike not so much. The weight penalty over the suspension improvement is simply too much for a trail bike. Motorcycles do still use leading link forks but only in special cases (MX sidecar racing) but weight is not a major factor there either. I have ridden a number of older leading link (motorcycle) and trailing link (bicycle) forks and they do behave very different. Better in most situations.