00:00 - Intro 02:55 - Meet Thom Rainer 05:31 - Why Thom remains an 'Obnoxious Optimist' 06:38 - Did the pandemic create or just magnify problems in the church? 07:47 - "I love you, so I'll be there when it's convenient..." 13:06 - Thom on the unique narrative approach he took with his book 15:10 - A jaw-dropping stat about Church Answers 16:43 - The rare occasions when a church closing isn't a bad thing 24:45 - Dispelling a BIG myth about the church and the pandemic 27:16 - The #1 reason for church decline in America is... 30:00 - Approach your pastor about these issues with THIS 33:17 - The secret hero of the church? The pastor's wife. 36:00 - "There is hope." 37:38 - Steve's closing thoughts 40:11 - Next week's guests are...
