I'm an educator at a design college. This video has made rethink about our school's emphasis on output. Now, I'm inclined to say "over-emphasis". Yes, the design output is tasked with meeting objectives. But we need to strike a better balance between the process and the output, especially during the early levels when the younglings are hesitant to explore.
Absolutely brilliant, clear description of the importance of the creative process! I’m 74 now, been doing arts since I was 5. And sadly, only in the last 3 years have I internally developed full appreciation for every creative journey I take now. Better late than never… Thanks for producing this inspiring, insightful audio/visual thought piece!!!
Some Buddhist monks spend days making incredibly detailed sand mandalas. And then they sweep up the sand. I’ve watched them and they have no regrets. An interviewer once asked Jackson Pollock how he felt when he saw his paintings on the wall of a museum and he replied that he didn’t usually go to look at them. What mattered to him, he claimed, was the experience he had “being in” the painting, while making it. Sometimes I burn my paintings. Not because I dislike them but because they have no importance in the greater world and I need more room in the studio. Of course, I like some more than others, that’s natural. But the doing is always more interesting than the painting itself, because they never turn out the way they began or the way I “intended, whatever that means. Good video.
That’s the point of ritualistic degradation; the more ghosts and echoes of someone/some people they can shove into a sensitive receptacle, the more the programmer feels they have yet another human on a remote control? Be it showing a scalp, an arse, or vice versa, it really is about one’s own narcissistic sense of mastery, not any life and time expended or degraded. Over time that person watches the spiritual degeneration of a person willing to degrade themself, enjoying watching the rooting and growth of corrupted emotions; that’s why he doesn’t like me 😆
But burning paintings is quite ritualistic in a sense of the exorcism of time and states of mind and belief, I’d agree. Suppose it depends if you intend psychospiritual emancipation & some type of release, rather than defiling or disseminating a relic in anger & protest. ‘Repeat after me’, is always in blind faith, trust, loyalty and ideal principles?
Art at its root is spontaneity, and that is the magic not art itself (though the art can inspire on its own too). In our attempts to capture it we unintentionally devalue it; this is why corporatization of art or social trends naturally repulses us. Like a child writing words in the ocean sand with their parent. It doesn't matter if it is washed away, we felt its impact and that's what counts.
Funny to hear someone else express the feeling I had.. "The worst thing about painting is that you're left with a painting." The final product always felt like.. "I missed it.. ... ... again." A constant plague of needing to create and never feeling like you got out what you were supposed to. I stopped doing art which felt so "static"... and struggled But a few years ago I started to try my hand in Bonsai. Through this so many things have changed. The art itself is alive... so it's never going to be static by its very nature. It can not be copied. It ultimately can no be saved. This intrigued me.... however this has presented an interesting psychologically challenge to deal with as I am also obsessed with being able to "reach the end". This has been a major point of interest personally which I have been noticing... and applying its implication to the reality of finding myself with a body which is doing the exact same thing. As it gets older and more "manipulated" perhaps the more interest lays secretly hidden in it. I don't know. The timelines of my artistic endeavors went from being as quickly done (output focused) as possible.. to saying.. "In two years I think I will cut this branch off." VERRY difficult for me to learn this patience and incredibly rewarding to make the cut. :) If the highest art of bonsai is done correctly in my opinion... the artist touch is completely unseen. For me it gives me the exact opposite feeling of what I used to have. If I am truly successful.. only I will know it. I find that a funny thing to ponder when I simultaneously realize that maybe that means that I shouldn't touch the tree at all because it is perfect in and of itself already. When I find a tree growing in the wild that I want to collect and work with.. sometimes I just sit and look at a tree for a long time debating if I should risk contaminating it in a sense. Then the day comes when for some random reason the tree suddenly and unexpectedly dies. Years of daily care like a pet, sometimes living for centuries, often seen by those whom they live with as multi-generational silent members of a family and....one day they are no more. But one master said, "A dead tree means an empty pot." The bonsai tree as a "thing" never existed and it never would. Its value was always in the experience of being with the tree and encouraging its unending development. Like the video. Interesting to hear other peoples insights regarding art.
I keep a record of the hours I "Turn Up". My success and satisfaction is based primarily on how many hours I spend just creating and enjoying. Brilliant talk!
Very insightful. I love the idea that “plumbers don’t experience plumber’s block.” I’ve been thinking about hinderance / output as it relates to art for some time and this helps me to nudge forward. Cheers from USA. Thanks for sharing.
I sometimes forget to enjoy the process myself despite knowing that's the most important part of drawing and it's what makes drawing so therapeutic for me. The analogy with Cain and Abel was perfect for this topic. Thanks for talking about this topic and reminding me to enjoy the process more than the outcome.
To me it's always been the journey, not the destination. The creative process can be the most joyous and the most testing, but always satisfying. I've also given away much of my art to someone who truly appreciates the end result; to me it has served its purpose and if it brings joy to others, that's a bonus. Output or the pressure to produce often kills my desire to create, hence i shy away from commissions.. thankyou for your thoughts and insight, great video!
Dude!! You are stalking me!! Your ‘sermon’ is exactly what I need at this time in my creative life. In fact, it has been bookmarked so I can revisit it when I need inspiration. The subtle effect of going to your laptop as you speak of presenting ourselves and our outcomes in the world we have created. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. From an island in BC Canada.
I’m an artist and I just found this video. I’m so glad. Thank you for sharing that. I never looked at the story of Cane and Able in that perspective. Now I can’t see it any other way. 🙏🏻 This so applies to us as artist.
This is an understanding I seem to have reached just recently as well - amazing to find you discussing it so humanely. Worth watching again and again since the understanding slips away so easily. Thank you brother and keep up the great work.
Really enjoyed watching you tidy up:) So glad this got recommended to me, I greatly appreciate you outputting your thoughts to the world. Creativity has played a huge part in my life so far, and it's so easy to get frustrated and forget that even if there was no output at the end of it, you'd still be doing it because you just want to flow and exist in the current moment and that has proven to be the way to get there, over and over again. This is a very important thought to keep in mind when the daunting feeling of a sort of cultural implosion caused by generative AI creeps up on me. Feels like I can just play the "I just do it for myself" card, brush it off and be good. Maybe even find some liberation from too much personal association with the output. Just super glad I came across this. A refresher on a helpful mindset that came upon me in just the right time. Peace and love!
Just came out of my studio to grab a cup of tea and some how stumbled on your page! So interesting thank you and as an artist it can feel a bit lonely at times. This subject is so on my mind at the moment, I have taught for the last 18 years, focusing on keeping all my students happy and now I am focussing on finding my style and joy in painting as I lost my love of art for a bit after spending so much time on teaching the techniques to others. There feels such a pressure to have a style to be identifiable and put in a box from a marketing point of view! To find your ‘Super’ customer. To be ‘cool’ enough to be chosen for competitions or to sell to make money! It creates a I will never be good enough mindset and a fear of failure, that I feel kills the creative process! It’s knowing how to let all that go as you said, to create from within, when you know it logically but it keeps coming back 😂
The Cain and Abel analogy TOTALLY applies!!!! We tend to dismiss or even kill "murder" what is truly important. And the process "joy" of flow is greatly important in obtaining outcome.
Sam: You might enjoy a book by the late Daniel Quinn, called "Ishmael." It's a novel, ostensibly about a conversation between the Natural World and Civilization. But one of the things he talks about late in the book is an idea that we live in a society structured around what is Good For Production, rather than what is good for people. When you look at our society that way, you realize that virtually everything is about Production, and likewise, everything has a price. As an artist myself (writing, music, and other endeavors), I am saddened that so many have fallen into the idea that Production is the only thing that matters. Ergo: You're not really an artist if you never sell anything, or if nobody buys what you create. When this same dynamic is observed from a spiritual perspective, it is apparent that the CREATIVE ACT is the important part. The selling of it and/or appreciation of others is secondary. The primary part is creation. It is this obsession with Production that lulls people (even you and myself) into this idea that our creative endeavor can be worthy or unworthy. Again I say: How you feel about your creative action is the part that really matters. If you love what you are doing, nothing else about the "production" really matters, spiritually speaking. Thanks for the video.
Amazing video, and such an intimate delivery - I really loved listening to your insights while watching you tidy up - feels like I'm just chatting with a mate. Thanks for posting!
It is not intellect that takes humanity forward,it is wisdom. Hidden truths in the stories of old,the alchemists, mystics and sages knew that all answers are within,not without. We have to quell the ego and let the true Self speak.
I’m a designer, and artist myself…and I actually needed this. Especially the Cain and Abel analogy. I am a Christian so it probably hit me a little deeper, but I have been suffering some resistance and procrastinating, over not liking the result of a painting…not even that it’s bad, but that it took me too long to do because I got lost in the flow and what was supposed to be fast and loose ended up tight and precise…then one hour turned into 5, where I was supposed to stop at 2 (it’s for a painting class) I have been chastising myself internally, instead of just moving forward and being thankful for the flow, AND just enjoying the process! Duh! That’s why I’m in it in the first place. I just needed the reminder… back to being…Abel. Thank you!
Got to love that algorithm. The way it recommends just the right video. 🙂 Interesting. Many Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I started drawing in my late 50s. I do it because I enjoy it. I also dabble in digital. Started taking photographs as a kid, got into photoshop when it arrived on the scene, and these days piddle around with all kinds of software. I have no interest in selling art, and little interest in showing my art to anybody. It occurs to me that Cain and Able can be seen as two parts of any artist. There's the part which simply trusts that there will always be more art to create, and knows that no one piece should be assigned any particular importance, and believes that creating art is its own reward. And then there's the other part, which wants to use art to get things - money, fame, whatever. And of course, one part will kill the other if we're not careful. Subbed.
Able’s sacrifice was greater because he gave the first of what he had without promise of more which showed true faith. Cain gave from what he didn’t need, to fulfil what was expected from him. Able gave out of love, Cain gave out of obedience, that’s why Able’s gift was greater. It was an analogy of the Old Testament law vs New Testament salvation by faith. Faith was always the higher principle but it took most of humanity many years to understand it. As you suggested, Cain was also more focused on his output for himself, not in the act of worship.
Great video. I have always found myself becoming excited with a writing or art project, getting into rhythm, discovering direction and ideas and trying to leave a project while it's still hot so to pick up where I left off. And the next day it's all gone and I think "this is what I was excited about?" Too derivative, too generic, simply not good... and I don't finish the thing to see if it's even true. Really, a pathetic habit. Be bold - read much - write much - publish little - keep aloof from the little wits, and fear nothing. " - Edgar Allan Poe, October 1843. I always think if those quote to remember that finishing a thing, and the energy of doing it is part of making something worth putting out there.
Though I really enjoy the artistic process - most of the time, at any rate - I see 'the output' as an added reward. Hard work, however fulfilling it may be, deserves some sort of 'prize' at the end. For me, signing a painting, and calling it complete, is an integral part of the creative process. It's like a finish line one crosses, at the end of a long race, that then allows you to move on, and (finally) dedicate some time to other projects. Anyway, that's how I see/feel it.
Thank you very much Sam! Hurrah, you've imparted a great lesson here. I now feel free to enjoy the process, and the output that comes from it will be the icing on the cake, not the prime focus. 😀
I’m really good at iterating and playing with ideas but procrastinate in finals and it just helped me realize why, it’s cause I think of the “final” as an output of the exploration and I should think of the final as a highly sharpened *part* of the exploration.
@@nidhishshivashankar4885thank you for wording it this way ,if I treat the final draft with the same excitement I treat sketches I’ll never get scared of results again
I treasure the feeling I get when I am in the process of creating. As has been said many times before, that process requires being focused and in the moment. The cares of the world disappear. But I also feel pleasure when the finished work turns out well. And if it doesn’t, I just remind myself of the pleasure of “the doing” and I carry on with another drawing or pastel.
I've started transforming my attempts into abstracts lately. It's great covering up something you don't love into something completely different and you still learned something from your beginning attempt.
I have been struggling with this Cain/abel output as I’ve exited illustration then licensing in to now painting. I always wanted to be a painter, but thought it would be an unrealistic way to survive. Now I’m retired and painting abstractly finding my way enjoying just the process, not even worrying about output, painting with my heart and not my mind. It has coincided with increased meditation practice, yoga, and deep emotional release. I find one is a metaphor for the other, showing up every day and just being present, surrendering really. Thank you for making it more clear.
Wow dude !!!! Your paintings in your studio are sick !!!! Great line work and very creative.....great works ....and your whole vid was a great start to my own studio today ....thank you
i have completely disregarded the pressures of output for alot of reasons. Im not staking anything in the ground... so to speak. Im in a complete state of creative middle realm. No end and no beginning. Its trippy.
i think a lot of my work has been murdered. ha! I quite often have the same feeling of oh god they are 'awful'. Yesterday i saw a couple of my drawings and lo and behold 'they were good. thank you for sharing. making mistakes is the only way to go, messy is good. the practice of gesture drawing the scribble over the whole page is of value to the rest of the days work.
Brilliant thank you for sharing your thoughts. Only a few minutes in and I'm loving this perspective. It's a balance between the two I think. If you want to have a business that is. If not, then process is primary or what's the word I'm looking for? It's central or pivotal. We can critique what we've created and throw out what we don't want and try to explore further the pieces or parts of work that we like. Something along those lines. Alternating between flow and reviewing the results. Then the cycle continues.
Thank you. Such an important message and good to be involved in your process of you processing! I needed to be nudged to be back in my external art process not my in my head one.
Great Video. I think it relates your one on AI. Doing the work is the reward and the end result is just footprints in the sand. Even if AI does manage to create artwork that replaces artists employment it cant replace the experience we have as we move forward learning and the way that helps us to understand our place in the world. As I heard said - Its the journey, not the destination.
this is one of the reasons i think ai is great for art. it never was about the finished piece. if a computer can do in ten seconds what it takes you a hundred hours to do, then it forces you to re-evaluate WHY you're doing it. this is what art is about.
Im a 3D artist and a lot of the time I struggle just getting into the flow. This is a good video, made me think about a lot in my workflow that I should work on.
Thank you for your video exploration on process vs output. I think you are correct in drawing in the story of Cain and Able. Hidden in that story is some value of the shepherd over the farmer. Although practically there are of course benefits to farming and focusing on output, there is value in the shepherding philosophy. I love how you connected it to art making. In his book Ishmael, Daniel Quinn explores this story more and through an environmentalist lens. I am curious to hear what you think of that book?
Thank you! Your thoughts have given me a different perspective on the story of Cain and Abel. As a child, it confused and disturb me that God would favor the brother who offered up a blood sacrifice and did not favor Cain, who offered up the produce of the earth. Basicly the whole blood-thirsty god vs. a gentle loving God. But your observation that the sacrifes were really about offering up something that was a true sacrifice. Who knows where this will lead me, but thank you for showing me the path.
God did not need to punish Cain because Cain punished himself. I think this entire discussion highlights what has made photography such a breeze, and 3D modeling and animation a steady process again when compared to the attitude I have had towards writing music as of the past 2-3 years. In photography, you can create a complete work with the click of a button. All that leads up to it is just the thought or recognition of something you see or want to see. All that comes after it is the thought regarding which photos as completed works are worth displaying and which are worth considering as just mistakes providing moments of learning and reflection. The act of creating photos is one in which we spend most of our time thinking, breathing, adjusting our perspective, and seeing. It's much easier to detach from the output when the perceived work that goes into it (clicking the button) is not going to be make or break for the desired output which is provided by much of the before and after. Even if you were where you needed to be but could not get the photo you wanted, there is always tomorrow and there is always next year. In picking up photography, I have more thoroughly realized that if you really are partial to a particular outcome, you can just try again or you can realize that outcome through an entirely different piece or approach. In 3D modeling, I am working on a project to recreate the McDonnell XP-67 in a digital environment so that it can be added to a vehicular combat game and simulator called War Thunder. A friend and I started it back in 2017, he dropped out of the project and I flew across the country to gather reference material from the National Archives in 2019 to kick off my gap year, I put the project on hold in 2020 when I started university, I picked it up and restarted the whole thing over the summer of 2022, I picked it up again and set myself a schedule in late 2023, and have been working ever since to see to it that I provide my best output without any concern for the result. The ideal outcome is that I will have produced a work of an acceptable quality to present to the developers such that they will purchase the model and add it to the game. This would mean I would earn a good sum of money and have fun with the very piece I worked hard to implement into the game. However, I don't even know if the developers will consider adding that particular aircraft to the game, and I don't know if the quality will be good enough to be accepted (although that is less of a concern because I can fix it or restart). Even if I don't make any money or get to see the final product in a game I have played for 8-9 years that was an integral part of my teenage years, I already know I have learned so much in the process of creating this model. Once I finish, with the knowledge I've gained in this process, I'll move on to other models that I hope to see in the game. The other models will probably not be on such a tight schedule so that I may again dedicate time to the feature length animated film which started in December of 2017 as a budding idea to tell the story of the events that led up to The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. That project is one I want to do just because one might think no one in their right mind would try to make an entire animated movie on their own (but think of it this way, you don't have to be in your right mind, you just need to do something fulfilling). It will give me nothing of monetary value to do this. On the contrary, it will certainly cost me both money and time so that I may say I did something no one else would do just to tell a story. I might share it around and then silently celebrate it for a brief moment upon the work's completion, but when I am finished with the piece, what then? Onto the next. If I don't keep moving, I will probably be suffering from the boredom of "success." We live for the next mountain because we will otherwise get no higher than this peak and will see no value in any lower point that must be traversed to get to the next mountain. Sitting too long on your laurels upon reaching a peak will make it harder to appreciate the journey that got you there and the journeys that follow. I think the Pinksplosion Head President Man quote really applies here. "We choose to go to the Moon. We choose to go to the Moon... We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too." There's no better way to die than to die trying. In my songwriting however, I've been going in circles trying to figure out the expansion of certain ideas into these pretentious hokey garbage grand pieces and then losing sight of what I was doing in the production process before I even have fully developed an actual musical idea, piece, or song. I think the biggest issue I've come across is that, given the variety of music I want to create, while some of it is best done with live instruments, some of it is best done directly in a digital audio workstation which is a workspace where I unfortunately actually have to expect and physically observe my progress towards a completed work without processing it in my own head or feeling it emotionally. Because I can see in the midi roll or array of audio tracks what is supposed to be an auditory form of expression, it's harder for me to pay attention to when my work is truly finished. I recently got back into piano, but instead of immediately going straight to writing and playing my own ideas the way I have on guitar for the past six years, I figured I could take the time to play pieces written by others to redevelop my physical ability and provide inspiration and seek reference material for structure as can be observed on sheet music. Coming back to piano has been a good exercise in mindfulness and a good change of pace with the added challenge of relearning reading sheet music. I think the recent breaks in my patterns will ultimately serve to restore my desire to explore ideas and then crystalize them effectively so that I can move on to the next piece.
very interesting - nice to hear a fellow artist talk about religion - something that I'm very interested in . I have some thoughts...way too many to type here sadly - but I'll have a mini monologue anyway:)...in a nutshell though, I've (at my age of 52) come to be most wary of any belief system that promotes the idea of non-duality - I feel it's the road to madness, or rather, reprogramming of the brain to accept an unreal reality (think 1984)- - for obvious uses that control mechanisms have of course. Funnily enough, the 3 main religions I always instinctively felt drawn to are christianity (not catholic though),zoroastrianism and taosim...and all of them follow a dualistic ideal. The last few years have really taught me to scrutinize belief systems...I imagine 2 pillars, one pure good, and one pure evil, and hold up what needs to be questioned to the good pillar, and see if it sticks! it won't, unless you hold up the name Jesus, but this process allows you to look into the very foundations of what's in question and identify the problem area...for evil hides in good - always has...if it were to be isolated, it would wither...so it has to hide - there's a word that means 'hidden' that a whole belief system is made up of (begins with occ..), founded in the mid-1800s by a Ukranian woman - theos....y - it's this that all modern ideas of yoga, 'spirituality' and meditation came from...checkout steven bancarz yt channel - he has some very informative videos on the reality behind this apparently loving movement. The yoga you poss practice may well contain shapes that are used by a rather evil religious group (see bancarz channel for confirmation on this). Hope I helped...prob not lol...most people cannot accept even to take a look at what I say in this area...but I've been deeply researching this stuff for over 10 years...I know stuff unfortunately!
Hi Sam! Thank you for the reminder to not tie ourselfs to the outcome. I've been reading the Bhagavad Gita recently, and in the Gita it's amazingly beautiful just how.many.times Khrisna tells Arjuna to ofer all his actions to him, and not care of the outcome. To just do what he has to do, but as an offering to God. Have you read the Gita? All the best in your practice today!
You're welcome! The book that Gandhi kept coming back to throughout his life...and for good reasons too.. I've heard this interesting perspective that you might find usefull too, to read the Gita three times (and being a very very small book it's easy too): First time to read it just like a story Second time to read it from Arjuna's perspective Third time to read it from Khrisna's perspective. Cheers!
I really enjoyed this, I think you have a great way of putting things and its nice to see you're focused from what I can see, and have a nice structure to what you're doing. This is all first glance. I just had this suggested on youtube, it caught my eye so I clicked it. Im always skeptical about what gets suggested for me on YT, more than often its someone begging for likes and subscribes followed by something I'd usually find annoying, more than often an American channel (not all of them 'suck', but I have to say, most of them do). So I'm interested, its good to listen to what you have to say, it kinda reminds me of the thoughts going around my own head of which I never speak out to anyone else. & yes, I love the story of cane and able and what it means on numerous levels, Jordan Peterson drew me towards those topics in his biblical lectures and ever since, I've been able to see the corelation between those stories and what they mean, whilst Im not particularly religious myself. I agree with what you're talking about, I often have similar thoughts about creative processes. Good stuff mate!
Thanks for your thoughts! I enjoy a good slightly convoluted analogy and I think you actually hit the nail squarely on the head in regards to outcome obsession murdering process.
This is my process 1:33 I’ll focus for hours on a painting that works but afternoon I still wish to paint but it’s more for the sake of pushing paint around and I’m not happy with those results either. I call them my warm ups, I’ll then return to the more focused concentration having had a have at it energetic output. It’s all part of it :)
You are such an inspiration, i got this little notebook to write song lyric/poetry ideas n ive barely touched it out if fear of the outcome. Even though there is no weight in the contents of this notebook, so ive just ripped through 20 pages writing sensible jibberish and honestly its so fun i make myself laugh too easily
Absolutely wonderful and I saw it at just the right time. Really enjoyed your Cain and Abel analogy and the story about the people drawing at the events - fascinating! Many thanks and you have a new subscriber. 🙏👏👏👏
Picasso said “In my opinion, to search means nothing in painting. To find is the thing.” Yours is a good lesson, but perhaps more in how to live life than to create something significant. All the best though.
I think this pressure comes from the need to fullfill a certain purpose with our Art. I never want to work fulltime as artist, it makes you too dependent on the demands, instead of taking time for quality work
At 78 years old, I learned over a lifetime: If you can't afford even rudimentary supplies, you need more money. (For example, I see him working on stretched canvases, not dirt and water). You are welcome.
God doesn't punish Cain??? 17:07 Following Abel's death, God curses Cain, telling him that he will have a double punishment: he will be more cursed than the earth, which will withhold its produce from him, and in addition he is to be a ceaseless wanderer (Gen 4:11-12)
just don't obsess on the last 63 years of silenced genocide in west papua. it all sounds like silence. the sounds of silence. hellooooo??? how grate thou art
This blanket in/out is exactly why people dismiss the stories told in ancient religions, I’m not a follower of the bible but to say it has no value or that if it’s mentioned you’re out seems a bit rash
you are drawing on myths and they should be noted as such not used to illustrate contemporary events as they contain bad science, bad history and bad advice that serves only to deceive people. You are hampering your ideas by utilizing it. As when people refer to something being "biblical" when the bible is stuffed full of made up stories including the flood. Utilizing the bible is wasting your time and mine, sorry. @@samhamper
A lot of us have a knee jerk reaction when the Bible is mentioned, but I think it is no different than any other mythology. Human beings create stories to make sense of the world and their place in it.
as it is a mythology currently trying to overthrow a democratic nation and replace it with a theocracy I don't think the comparison is valid and by using it's twisted language to further a point gives currency to those who let lies lead them, this guy has an imagination so why is he or anyone else using outdated tropes to make his? @@notjustanybeth
I dislike 95% of my past self. I hate that FB reminds me of the thoughts I used to have, it's unnatural. But the music or art I have created always seems to hold a special place to me, I'm not ashamed of my drawings and songs as I am myself.
