Three "Fantasy" Lugers 

Years ago while collecting Lugers I came across several guns unexplainable like your 1904 Navy. While doing a show in northern New England I picked up a Stoeger catalog from the 1930s. According to this catalog Stoeger bought Luger parts from Germany and was building guns to order. It helped to explain the Navy gun I had with a seven inch barrel. Just a thought.

I worked for John Martz Luger carbine maker from Lincoln, CA in the 1970s and the 1980s. I had an order from him for 100 toggle locks. I made the toggle locks to the original design specifications from copies of 1902 DWM Luger pistol drawings I had purchased in Germany from Dr. Hans Gminder who worked for the Mauser company. At the time he was working on the Mauser .45 caliber Luger pistol. The locks came out very good but everyone used had to be hand fitted to the pistol.

Thank you Tom and Randy for your videos!! Johnny cash car song one piece at time did not cost me a dime. Luger. A lol

So glad you’ve made another Luger video! Could listen to you talking about Luger stamps & Krieghoffs all day

I believe it is a bonafide parts gun. Nothing wrong with that.

Yep,I learned something...Now I have to try to remember.

This is like being in school 🏫 and what a educational show❤

Maybe it’s just me, Tom, but even a “Parts” Luger is a thing of beauty. Someday I would love to buy one. Even more, I would dearly love to be able to craft one or have one made for me. A brand new one in 10 mm ( no fakery intended) would be awesome.

For us poors, any Luger is a fantasy Luger! 😢

Great video! I always enjoy watching and learning from your videos. Thanks and have a great weekend!

Even I started buying guns in the early 1990's the Luger, regardless of condition, was already way out of my price range. So I am glad I was able to get one of the Stoeger reproductions. This was a great look at one of my favorite historical guns. I remember reading that there were left over parts assembled Luger's in the period 1942-44. But what I remember is that production was of very late production parts.

I’ve been collecting Axis Pistols over 10 years now and have / had just about everything EXCEPT a P08. It’s about time I finally get an example in my collection. 😂😂

OMG, did I get doofed !?! I purchased a Mauser 42 w/ serial # 8XX that looked liked a Navy model. It was on consignment and the sales person did not know the history of it but, the owner wanted to sell it. It had no stamping like your 900s but had the heavy barrel and rear adjustable sights. I'm not an expert on Lugers but, at that time, I thought it was a sure thing. Hopefully I didn't over pay for it...

I heard a old gun collector say “When in doubt do without” Of course he wasn’t trying to sell me a gun. Words of wisdom let it be, let it be!

Brilliant work Detective.

A german saying ( ?): Es gibt nichts, was es nicht gibt. There is nothing, which doesn' t exist.

Could it be a "brieb" gun, assembled and being a commercial gun, handed to a Navy official? A firing pin could be broken and they sent a new one 25 years later?

Very interesting comparison, I really enjoy your Channel !

Super! Thank you, always enjoyable watching and learning.

It looks like a commercial luger in the Navy Configuration.

What a deal.....Thanks Tom..... Old Shoe🇺🇸

Great video and presentation.

Could be a so called lunch box gun.

Lovin your posts Tom great Luger s

Fake or not it was fun seeing them all. That's a lot of info to take in.. I'm finding the more I know..the more I know I don't know. Thanks.🤠

V-2 Rocket Luger is Alamo Oppenhomer ’s wife ccv Luger

I think this Luger should be considered very rare and labeled an early prototype. It is a parts Luger because I think the parts were so early and not assembled due to experimentation and a base line of quality. The parts were kept as a reference and then later assembled during the transition of manufacturers. Note time stamp 12:58, the prototype 994 has rounded slide guides and the ramp isn't squared nicely. The 33 Luger is true and square all around with tight tolerances. Shows to me that the prototype was just that, an example of form, but as low as you could go milling. No proofs on the 994 should speak volumes to exactly what it means, no verification. The parts were a baseline for tooling, and later assembled in transition.

Tom, I do have a few comments with regard to the "Navy" pistol. As the owner of the only other currently known all original 1904 P.04 (Navy Luger) I have had the opportunity to study them side-by-side as well as compare them to the various later versions of the P.04. 1. The s/n on the fantasy Luger is the wrong size. All Navy Lugers up to about s/n 1000 in 1917 have smaller numbers than the commercial and Army ones. 2. The cross hatching on the fantasy Luger toggle is at a 60 degree angle. On a 1904 it should be 90 degrees. 3. The font on the safety marking is not a useful comparison. The fantasy, like both known originals were marked under the lever when it was in the down position and subsequently the factory markings were removed and they were remarked by whatever armory had custody of the pistol at the time. 4. Newly made "Navy" rear toggles are readily available and often used in the creation of fakes. 5. The witness mark would have been very close to equal in depth and width on the barrel and receiver, having been struck together. Compare the fantasy with both real ones in the book. 6. Whoever installed the catch in the frame really botched it. Most fakes are much better. A leftover frame would have most likely had one. 7. Did you take the grips off? A real 1904 would have a flat double leaf mainspring, that's the reason they need that catch on the frame. 8. The inside surfaces of the toggle of a 1904 and very early 1906s are parallel. Later ones are slightly beveled so the don't hit the frame on the way down. 9. How many lands and grooves in the barrel. New made replicas often differ from the originals. 10. Does the chamber have the "Luger step"? New made barrels usually forget that. Finally, just a nit, but the P.08, P.04 and LP.08 (Army, Navy and Artillery) barrels are 100mm, 150mm and 200mm. Just nit for us, but the difference caused a number of perfectly good P.08s in Canada to be rebarreled because they were under the 4" legal minimum length.

That was very kool. Like a Who-Dunnit novel and I learned a lot.

Send me a bottle with my next order……

With the condition of the gun it seems weird that the toggle and the firing pin would need replacing.

Always interesting Tom. 👍🇺🇸

Lunch box special maybe ?

The trigger guards are also different

Anyone who knows the hassle involved in making a replacement Luger barrel - front sight alignment, barrel thread starting position etc - should have been able to make a toggle with at least the correct 90° checkering. Might have been more than one sneaky 'restorer' at work.

Very interesting

It could be a factory walk out or a commercial sale. But parts break so the toggle lock and the firing pin could have broken and just been replaced without care other than it works.

22:34 -ish I think those flourishes at the end of the characters are called 'serifs'?

Muitíssimo obrigado, obrigado!

Re Navy Luger - I disagree about the barrel witness mark. While they seem to line up, to me they appear to be different. The mark on the barrel should look more like a continuation of the mark on the body, as if they were made at the same time by the same tool. On your navy they appear different. The mark on the body is bold and strong whereas that on the barrel is thin, crooked, and and weak. But they do seem to line up. Re-marked pieces and parts in all likelihood. When, where and by whom is the real question.

Lugers, Luger and Lugres.

25:00 -ish Would there be any way to use ultrasound / x-ray / MRI to determine if there's another serial number *behind* the visible serial number?

I like them all 😊

I didn’t realize that the grip saggy on Lugers went all the way through 1906

What is your value on the " non-navy" navy look-alike? If it is not a fake--and I have no reason to doubt this-- then it would a "one of a kind". Why does it not not have any kind of proof marks? That suggests it was not proofed as an assembled gun. Was it a third party assembled gun, using original parts, by an importer, say Stoeger?

toggle link shows number 100. HUH?

GI bringback and armoury Korea

Do you have any lugers from lugerman ? Who makes them in .45 ?

I would not call every mix and match Luger a fake. That is probably because over the years I, as a hobbyist, have made some from parts for use as shooters. It never mattered to me if the toggle said Vickers, DWM or was blank. What matters is it fit in the gun and the gun worked. Yes, there were issues with short WWI frames and longer WW2 parts, but once I solved those and got the gun working I used them as shooters (plinking mostly) before disposing of them a few years later when new parts and a frame came in. I am not the only one who did this because not only were original Luger parts available for a long time up until a few years ago anyway (last time I looked) you could get pretty decent looking newly made small parts (sideplates, toggle pins, etc.) from China from some sources. I assembled those as shooters, not as fakes. So if you encounter a parkerized Luger with mixed parts, etc. please don't call it a fake. It really is a Luger, a shooter Luger.

Maybe it was sold for private use and it wasn’t required for the markings to be put on the pistol????

Hey ,I might could actually afford that toggle. Itsa process ha

Thats loose like yr thoughts on it i tend to agree why wouldnt you add the stamps if you were fakeing it the fact it has the corect bottom and also unstamped mag also lends some creadence to your theory i kind of like it as prob not fake as such but it makes it very interesting ,thanks most enjoyable

is anyone still producing NEW Lugers? i sold my Sroeger 22 and have regretted it every since.

Would you consider a faked gun still okay for shooting? I have always wanted a luger, but the prices are a little intimidating. Just wondering if a faked luger would be more attainable for myself. Thank you!

If they were faking a 1904, why would they make such a good gun then put a stupid high serial number. Could the firing pin have been changed? I think someone at the factory put it together for themself.

Yes Tom. Guns are like women. You remember the ones you did not get as much as the ones you did.

Vodka-flavored rum is also MY favorite as well!

Could it an employee wanted one when they were being made, since did not go to navy, the reason don't have navy marks.

13:05 I probably sound like a dumbass now, but where exactly on the Luger is that? I can't find it...I have disassembled the whole pistol and looked at it for 1 hour trying to find that spot, but can't find it. It's driving me crazy...

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100k just pay 1000Us no problem😂

Nice video

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