Through the Ages: Chinese and Britons (AoE2) 

I'd like to see the Conquerors civs too

several of the designers were pro-British and played British a LOT. The reason we were forced to remove the minimum range on longbowmen was the result of a couple playtests in which melee-armed units got in close on groups of longbowmen and massacred them while they tried to re-position themselves to shoot. The pro-British designers basically went on strike till me and the Sheriff removed the minimum range. We did sneak in some other nerfs on Britons to try to make up for this boost.

*Notes 1) 1:34 The Chu Ko Nu having +0 against buildings isn't actually strange at all. It's been pointed out to me that ALL archers have +0 to make the Saracen team bonus work. 2) 5:40 The graph for 2400+ elo should say 2nd, not 1st. They jump around between #4 and #1 depending on the time frame you look at, but the overall pattern holds in any time period.

When I said it was a "major screw to have 6 villagers" I meant that it was a colossal advantage to the Chinese. Honest.

we were always running kind of scared watching the Chinese in Age 2 because the Shang in Age 1 had been so unbalanced at top levels of play. We tried to fix them with the Conquerors and I think partly succeeded.

The Britons were my first love when I played aoe2 as a kid, and the Chinese are my wife's favorite civilization to play now! Couldn't ask for a better pairing for this episode.

You’re a man of the people SOTL. Too many people focus only on the high level plays/players. Love that you take everyone into account ❤

Don’t forget the Chu Ko Nu’s buff thanks to DE changing how bonus damage works for garrisoned archers. One of the most, if not _the_ most, dangerous garrison unit in the game.

Pretty sure I watch almost every video of yours when it comes out despite not having played AoE 2 for four years and not planning to even remotely get into it. So in that sense, excellent job being both knowledgable and extremely entertaining

Was there ever any doubt we wanted you to continue this series into every expansion in the game? At this point, we are more than fans. We're addicts and we need our SOTL fix NOW!!!

Cannot wait for the conquerors &etc civs, love the series as a commentary /data point on game design.

I played Age 2 back in the early 2000s as a teenager and just came back to it a few years ago in HD and then DE. This video showed me how much influence the community really had on the game over the years. I am glad it´s still going strong and getting better even still.

Ah, that closing clip of the HD longbows being systematically mowed down by the siege onagers while the paladins pile in amongst the maze of fortified walls is like seeing an old friend again that I haven't seen for a very long time! :D

It's really wild looking back at the game when it first came out and realizing just how drastically different the meta was back then, and how much the game needed to be rebalanced again and again to have what we have today

Make a Through The Ages video on the Dravidians. I wanna see how they changed in the decades they’ve been out.

Yes! Please continue this series. I think a major and very important change for archer civs was adding the helbadier. What I (Elo 800) also struggle with Chinese are camels. Somehow they do not work out well. Additionally, Chinese seems to be too open and after teching in to many awesome option, missing ress for units kills me.

Yes, would love to see the conquerors! Also the history series is one of my favorites, hope there's another one of those in the near future!

I really expect the Conquerors civs. I think Koreans deserve a video specially for them considering they had the most broken development cycle in the history of the game.

Pls continue the series i love it and it takes me back to being a young kid playing against the AI not really knowing what the hell im doing

Yes, finally the Britons! Please continue the series, Spirit!

Koreans would be a nice civ to take a look at, their old onagers were insane

There is no joy like watching maxxed Imperial Age Chu Ko Nu or Longbows rain mass arrows on the enemy town.

I think I'd say the Chinese also got an interesting indirect change over the years, at least in terms of the styles of civs. For a long time, Chinese were basically the only civ with a very weird opening. Huns were similar, but for low ELO players the house bonus doesn't really impact your skill. But now, there are a bunch of civs with similarly strange starts - Cumans, Gurjaras, Poles are all significantly different, the Meso civs have the huge difference of no stable, etc. So the Chinese went from being the only weird start, to one of a handful.

love this series so I´m very happy to hear you´ve started on the next ones! always great content

I just rewatched this series, and still thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you for the research and documenting the game’s history

I love this Series, so happy to see this in my Feed today

Keep the series "Through the Ages" going! really like it! Thanks SotL. Always awesome work!

Yaay! Was looking forward to it. Please continue with the Conquerors civs, it's very interesting! (And maybe Forgotten after?)

I really like the series and would love to see The Conquerors covered in full as well.

Britons did not use thumb ring historically

Interest in the series is had. Please continue.

wait, Sandy Petersen? The same that designed all the Call of Cthulhu RPG books also was an AoE game designer? Wild

The longbowmen are in an interesting position as unique unit because in AoK the game was really designed to where unique units are powerhouse units. But the longbow wasn't really the best ranged weapon available individually; they were more like the AK-47's of the medieval world in that they are relatively cheap and easy to make but very reliable, easy to repair and maintain, and close enough in power to more expensive weapons. The drawback (pun intended) is the strength required to use them. Which is why the English forced their civilians to train with bows and outlawed other sports. So yeah, realistically they should be cheaper to produce and slightly weaker than arbalesters, but with a longer training time.

Ironically the chu ko nu is a niche weapon in China used by palace boys and women for self defence and rely on poison. Their one shot crossbows are some of the best but underlooked

I absolutely love these videos and would love to see them through all the civs up to the current expansions even.

For the conqurors version, can you go through Koreans with their OG 12 range onagers

Keep going with all the expansions' civs. The content is worth it

Yay, the next episode of my favourite series!

+1 supporter to continue this series

this is the video like i always want when i was young but never had

Crossbow and arbalest upgrades being more expensive hurts a lot in 1v1s with archer civ vs cav civ ( in low elo ). The meta is FC into knight or FC into boom into knight, and it's so much harder to actually do damage in castle age, where you have to prioritize techs more, and essentially just taking worse fights overall.

Some time in DLC the chinese and teutons swapped some of their TC bonuses. Chinese gained the Teuton +5 LoS, while Teutons gained +10 garrison space.

Love yours videos and dedication to it!! ❤️

_SotL_ videos, gotta love them. Also, I really wished I could have that outro track as my in-game music for playing AoE.

When I was young I would pretty much only play Britons because I was British but also because longbows man

You completed Age of kings. I have been waiting for long

7:11 Hey mom I made it to a SotL video! :O

Please do the conquerors! this was so cool to see the changes over the years! and as someone who grew up on AOE2 I love seeing how the old civs used to be!

Great video as always.

TCs costing only around 125 wood must've been crazy, on maps like black forest they would be unbeatable with this possible boom

Yes, there is interest!

Love this series! Cheers!

A Sunday with a SOTL video upload? Nice

Back in the day Britons were my boys and I still love them!

Thank you!

I love these videos! It's fun to be reminded of where civs were at when the game came out, and it's really a testament to how well designed the AoK civs were that they haven't really fundamentally changed.

Finally! Thank you so much!

I would love to more man, don't stop!

As expected, their archer units are still a bane on civs fighting against them. Also a blessing on civs fighting with them.

Please keep this serries going!

I hope to see you all in another 24-25 years, hope the game's still alive then 🤣

When I was a kid, the Chu Ko Nu was generally considered among my peers to be the best unit in the game, and the reason why Chinese was the best civilization. Only the Britons with their Longbowmen were in the same league. Then I discovered the Huns, and proceeded to wipe the floor with the others for one glorious summer with my combined knights and cavalry archers.

Please continue the series ! :D

I used to play a lot Aoe 2 when I was a kid and did it through my teen years but it was 99 version and I had no idea about the expansion! Until HD version came out! XD

Hey guys, Spirit of the Time travel here

Thank you. These are always super interesting. I know a still image of a black and white print out isn't super dynamic, but the floating tech tree with the gameplay in the background makes me dizzy

I would suggest that Chinese have their resource nerf lessened and that they start with fewer villagers, maybe more like 1 villager to start. But would gain two extra villagers at each age. This means they are less technically challenging to start with, wouldn't be terrible or OP on nomad, but still maintain the character of the civ. They could also buff Great Wall tech by reducing stone cost, making it more viable to turtle in castle age. Perhaps the tech could also increase wall building speed.

Age of Kings civs revised: Check The Conquerors civs revised: Aztecs and Mayans I wonder which civ(s) will be revised in the series if it's continued. Overall, it's still a good work. I liked it very much.

Very nice series

Keep it coming!!

When you're that single sub 800 Elo person that doesn't suck playing Chinese.😅

Honestly, I think minimum range on Longbowmen is a pretty good idea, and it would match their historical reality of needing defenses to keep cavalry away in order to be effective.

go go go you do amazing

Can't wait for the Conquerors' civs, especially the Spanish and the Huns

YAAAAAAAS MORE!!!!!!!!

Franks/Britons/Genoa/SiciliansPortuguese Crusader (Kite shield+Nasal helm + chainmail) sword and spear infantry,Knights,crossbows, monk, Trebuchet civs. (Britons - Longbow archer skins) Add some more special units to represent the knightly,chivalric Crusader orders , such as a Templar knight or a Hospitaller knight to the Franks/British/Italian/Sicilians , Templar having the option to convert 1 unit for every charge up and the Hospitaller having the option to heal 1 unit for every charge up. Templar and Hospitaller knights do extremely little damage to enemy villagers (Right clicking on an enemy villager will either convert the villager (Templar) or heal the villager (Hospitalar) but they gain a +2 attack boost + 25% HP(Or conversion resistance) when within LOS of a Relic or friendly church containing one or more relics..Gains attributes from all monastery techs except Redemption: Templar + Hospitallers are very weak to siege damage. Genoa - Only Hospitalars Franks/Britons/Sicilians - Both Hospitalars & Templars Portuguese - Only Templars Or perhaps add these as technologies that can be researched in the Church 'Templar Order' & 'Hospitaller order' that will grant the already existing knights of the British/Franks/Italians/Sicilians/Portuguese these abilities. (Portuguese only gain access to Templars (Ordem dos Cavaleiros de Cristo)) Messo/SA civs do bonus damage to Templars/Hospitilars so you don’t want to make them when fighting in the New World. Hospitallar skin sketchfab.com/3d-models/knight-hospitaller-game-ready-character-animated-31333109719e4457b2052f8b2feb435f drive.google.com/file/d/1w5KGwMdhM6CxTBHLOhELgrr4PCk4F07N/view?usp=share_link Templar skin drive.google.com/file/d/1waT5xjY2vvMSN7RrTcOpub-8PvmGb4s2/view?usp=share_link drive.google.com/file/d/1FRo0mECvqtnh9Kch42whad-vsQpsKKZ-/view?usp=share_link The Ayyubids allowed Baldwin IV of Jerusalem to enter Ascalon with his Gaza-based Knights Templar without taking any precautions against a sudden attack. Although the Crusader force consisted of only 375 knights, Saladin hesitated to ambush them because of the presence of highly skilled generals. Saladin and his men were surprised near Ramla in the battle of Montgisard (possibly at Gezer, also known as Tell Jezar). Before they could form up, the Templar force decimated the Ayyubid army. Initially, Saladin attempted to organise his men into battle order, but as his bodyguards were being killed, he saw that defeat was inevitable and so with a small remnant of his troops mounted a swift camel, riding all the way to the territories of Egypt. Islamic civs In turn the Islamic civs:Saracens,Kurds, Turks, Tartars,Afghans, can receive a tech in the mosque called: Jizya tax, for every knightly unit they convert, you receive 10gold in castle age and 20gold in imperial age. Mediterranean Pirates: Saracens,Kurds,Berbers,Turks: Warships Destroying a full trade cog allows the gold to be looted and added to your stockpile. Saracens ‘’Counterweights’’ tech gets replaced by a new tech; Arabian horses +10% cavalry speed. (Cavalry not Camelry)

Chinese and Britons; the 2 civs that had to sacrifice historical accuracy for game balance. XD

Yes, there is interest! Please make the AoC civs!

I would love to see this expanded to AoC civs.

'Which I havee started already' It sounds to me like you follow the spirit of the law more than the lett-OOOOOOOOHHH!

I love going Britons and trying my "you can't touch me" strategy 50 longbows fully upgraded 2 monks 8 Trebuchets Units can't get to the trebuchets Buildings can't take down archers Monks heal any light damage inflicted. Repeat build order as many times as you can depending on population.

Why did you even bother asking if we want more? Go for it! :D

Please do continue

First time hearing about a planned minimum range for Longbows!

Am I the only one who thiks the original graphics look better than the modern ones. I like the snappyness of the movement.

Definitely do the conquerors civs

Time to give the Britons Thumb Ring.

Keep it going.

I love that the Chinese is built as an early to high medieval civ with no gunpowder. I prefer Sword,spear,arrow,axe units in DE2 to gunpowder units. Historically/Culturally/Regional accurate unit skins NB. I love the trend of the devs giving us more and more cultural/regional/historical units to each civ with every DLC. From the Eagle warrior,steppe lancers,Battle elephants,Siege elephants, Elephant archers to camels, shrivamshra riders, Inca Slingers and Polish Winghed Hussaria. I would relish cultural/regional/historical unit skins for the A,B,S units of each civ. I created my own mod that added Historically accurate skins to all of the civs units but I don't have the time to update the mod after every update. I would happily pay for a DLC that adds high quality culturally accurate skins to each civ , be it as a purely visible DLC or permanently/systematically implemented via new civ DLCs. I cant play with A,B,S units when all of them are exclusively 14th century European skins. I love the Sicilians. Alongside the Franks, Britons and Italians I would love to see them get A,B,S unit skins depicting Norman crusader knights ,with kite shields and nasal helms, ending with Templar/Hospitilar skin champions/Paladins/Halbs.... Deus Vault I love the Byzantines their history and their culture, especially how they evolved from the Eastern Roman Empire to the Byzantine Empire, how their architecture, dress, army and weapons evolved to be a mix of Western Greeks and eastern ME/North African cultures. And I crave to see it show in game. How their units evolved from Roman legionaries to curved Paramarion wielding imperial troops. With all connection to Rome in the west lost, the Eastern Empire utilised more and more soldiers from the region in their Empire. Soldiers from Greece, Anatolia, the Levant, some western parts of Mesopotamia and all across North Africa. Thus their building material, their architecture and even their army was vastly different from the West because they adopted the effective practices and cultures of the people whom were subject to the Empire. Thus the Eastern Roman army evolved into the Byzantine Army using lamellar armour coats of scale mail , cuirasses, casques and greaves of steel adopted from Persia. Their shields evolved from oval auxiliary shields to enlarged round shields and then it evolved further into kyte shields that were highly effective on foot as well as horseback. Similarly their Swords evolved from the Gladius, to the Spatha and when they encountered the effectiveness of the shamshir of the Persians and kilij of other ME armies, they adopted this eloquent design into their swords thus the spatha gave way to the curved Paramerion sword. Byzantine swordline: Militia: Roman legionary; Lorica segmentata + scutum + gladius Man at arms: Current In game legionnaire; Lorica hamata + oval auxiliary shield + gladius Long swordman: Scalemale + PX chi rho oval shield + Spatha THS: Scalemale + kite shield + Spatha Champion: Scale+chain male + kite shield + curved Paramarion The African civs, the Messo civs, the ME civs, the Asian civs , the Crusading European civs (Norman Inspired), the non Crusading European civs , the Caucasus civs , the Steppe civs,the Norse/Vikings, the South East Asian civs should all have their own unit skins. Please give the Chinese and Koreans their own Castle Architecture, the Japanese castle really doesn't do them justice.

I am asimple man, i see sotl vid, I click sotl vid.

Didnt the long bowmen get a huge range nerf? I remember as a kid the longbow men having more or same range as trebuchets, but that isnt close to the case anymore

I miss those china nomad years. 😢 instant domination and best feeling when randoming into them

Do all the civs. Heck even the HD civs have changed since they were introduced

Actually having 100% accuracy is a nerf if you have like 20+ archers shooting 1 guy in a crowd. Which was a given reason for them doing it to the Britons. You cannot have an arrow rain on an area if they all hit the same guy. You will actually do more damage if some of them miss and hit people near them. Of course this only matters if you are overkilling, and they are still pretty accurate if enemy is very close. But if you are max ranging a halberd army, its quite useful.

Oi Spirit! Random comment, but I would love to know with how many villagers I should build a house when I am housed, to make sure my TC idle time / Villager idle time balans is the most efficient. I can't find any video's on it, you ever made one?

oy, SOTL, have you got any stats on how much Xbox has increased the number of active players/lobbies/RM games going at one time? I think it would make an interesting video if data can be acquired (also I suspect many Xbox players might migrate to PC in the longer term).

Hi Spirit Of The Law ! I got a question for you You probably answered to that question in one of your many video but it's pretty hard to find that little information in your ocean of knowledge ! Is there a rule about civilisation bonus for tech, such as for exemple The vietnamese : conscription is free , do i need a castle to get the bonus or do i get it the instant i promote to castle age ? The real general question is do we need the related building to benefit any civ related tech bonus ? Sorry for my poor english, i wasn't a good student Have a good night !

I think this series could go as far as the tail end of HD edition tbh so you could go to Rise of the Rajas and stop there. Though I think at that point you'd have to lump all the new civs in one video to make it worth while.

great vid (haven't watch it yet but it's a safe bet)

Haven't seen that original tech tree in 20 years