What helped me the most so far has been using proper stances for drawing as per The Way of Archery - doing more of a pulldown draw engaging your lats and shoulders, using the expanding release and finally using Vermil's Victory thumb rings over any other brand or style. The Victory style thumb rings with their cut at the center to reduce pressure on the thumb really helps me with using the slight hump of the ring to pull back while touching the thumb tip to my ring finger and using the index finger to just support the arrow and keep the thumb nail from opening up. This has given me the best groupings I can get with any of my three Asiatic bows. I did try the Amazon metal thumb rings and while they did help initially, the Victory rings made so much difference that I returned all other rings that I got! :)
Great presentation Scott. Thank you again. For myself, related to the fletch clipping your thumb when used as a test, I have found for me I have used my bow square to raise the bottom of my nock 5/8” of an higher than a true square from the bottom of your arrow located properly at the arrow placement on the bow. I don’t get any thumb nicks. You are certainly correct with the draw and no anchor. Draw back around your max draw length and release while drawing. Your arm naturally will go back at release IF you are drawing when you release. All right and your shots will become more predictable and accurate. Thanks again!
I appreciate the comment Mark. I need to explore this more. I could wade into adjusting and testing more to see what results I get. That draw and release took me some time to figure out. I imagine it’s like everything else. You mind and body go on autopilot to some degree and you feel it instinctively. I have found that this is the beauty of archery, always learning and growing. I really appreciate you Mark. Have a great my friend. Best regards
Ive learned from many videos and my own experience is that your grip needs the have the arrow rest on the left of your thumb knuckle, to avoid fletches bumping the knuckle. The back of your hand is straight with the bow. Parallel to the bow. Not pointed left. The bow will kind of twist into place. Khatra built in the grip rather than active thrusting of the bow hand.
I will agree, 100% if you watch my video starting in this style of archery. It took me quite some time to get the feel of this style of shooting. I too also started off with too heavy of weight, as I got a lighter, It was easier on my thumb, but still felt so awkward after shooting Mediterranean style for so long and then one day it just clicked and became very enjoyable like every style of archery I am very glad I stuck with it. Thank you again Scott for the close-up illustrations and informative information. Appreciate you take care my friend and God bless.
I appreciate the comment Sig Man. Thank you for your time brother. I enjoy this style of archery over western traditional. I find it challenging in a good way. I hope you have a great evening my friend. God bless
I use my thumb as the arrow rest but wear thick cow hide gloves with my shooting hand or thick cow hide shooting gloves designed for this from Asia. You have done an excellent job describing this style of shooting with a thumb ring for the thumb draw technique. Never heard this explained as the birds eye but I have heard twisting a tiger's tail for thumb draw... LOL! Excellent job and I'll remember your description for birds eye... nicely thought out... wish you the best... like your lesson. Have a great day... thanks for the video share... nicely done and thought out.
I’ll have to check those gloves out. Really appreciate the comment and your time. I’ve always called it a Birds Eye. Could be because I am self taught LOL. Thank you so much for the kind words my friend. Have a great evening! Best regards
@@ScottWinters this is the kind I use... more expensive for the riser hand but protects my thumb I use for the arrow rest really well and I coat these in vasoline when I get new gloves like this and let it sit for a day or two and then wipe it off... have arm guards made of leather like this and I shoot a fifty pound Mongolian Horse Bow with a fast flight string and silencers... this is how I protect my thumb from fletching cuts... but also wrapping arrows with colored electric tape of any choice helps at the edge of the fletching as well for those that do this horseback riding and they also helicopter the string inserts by bending them with a pair of pliers so stringing arrows on horseback can be done with out having to look at the string and arrow to get it on point... have to be fast as possible on horseback so helicopter bends as they call it on the nocks to fletch fast works well with out causing nocks to not lock onto the bow string properly.. Tricks I've learned over time for the thumb draw technique and it is ancient... the Egyptians and Romans used thumb rings in history and ancient rings have been found... mainly due to the fact it prevents arrows from falling off the bow when horseback riding when a light twist is put onto the string in the draw technique using the thumb. The thumb is the stongest finger on the hand as well so makes handling a fifty pound bow a lot easier for me but I can draw the heavier bows in the Mediterannean style as well using a sheepskin three finger glove I got from London, England I ordered in the past I like too. Good to know many ways of drawing a bow and I've been doing archery since I was sixteen years old and feel very old now... LOL! Any way thank you for the videos and appreciate your unique perspective... you are a very good teacher. You simplify it with clear mental images in my mind and every person is different in how they learn... but your teaching method is excellent for how I think mentally so thanks... I like your approach to the lessons in archery and have a great new week coming up. Here is a link for the glove I use for my riser hand... and I dyed mine black with black leather dye... and I soak them with a covering of vasoline before I started using the glove and broke it in like a baseball glove... in summer this is great... in winter normal leather winter gloves work fine as well for my thumb as an arrow rest... wish you the best and all of you that enjoy archery... www.amazon.com/Valhalla-Gear-Handguard-Handmade-Leather/dp/B0B2VF4C1S/ref=sr_1_10?crid=FPJ101RK957X&keywords=Bow+Riser+Shooting+Glove&qid=1686538771&sprefix=bow+riser+shooting+glove%2Caps%2C361&sr=8-10
@@ScottWinters I do Flu Flu archery with the Mongolian Bows I own and flu flu fletching will cut the daylights out of the riser hand... I learned that the hard way years back... and I use a Franklin plastic baseball automatic thrower for my archery flu flu practice and I put wiffle balls in it that can be bought cheap to practice aerial archery for flying targets... in Egypt in history they used to shoot ducks in flight and more with archery and with practice it gets easier to do over time... practice is key to all this stuff... any way thank you... for the videos you post and later...
I also shoot asiatic style with a tatar bow from Hungary, 30 lbs. I just use duck tape on my thumb, I couln'd find a suitable ring. In my opinion it is more intuitive than western style archery with a take dowm traditional bow. Anchor point is very, very important to the style. In any case, when I feel frustrated with the mediterranean style it is a good thing to switch to thumb release, it resets everything.
Years ago I was given a archery thumb ring by a man who owned a small archery shop in Savannah Georgia. He had ordered it just to play with & let anyone try it who wanted. He he'd had it 3 years when I first went to the shop. I asked to try it as I'd experimented with a thum draw on a 25# ambidextrous target bow I have. First shot I loosed hit just on the edge of the bulls eye! After that he tild me the ring was mine as most who had tried couldn't even get an artow loosed & of those who did most missed the target. I'm not that good honestly but the issue was everyone was shooting right handed g nocking their arrows on the bows left; which is normal for a Mediterranean draw. But when shooting right handed with a thunb draw (sometimes called a Mongolian draw) it's best to nock on the right of the bow & secure the arrow by pushing towards the bow with the flesh near your index finger's knuckle. But I think what helped me in learning was shooting slingshots. With a slingshot you pinch the anmo in the pouch & unpinch to loose, 7nless the slingshot draw is really high then you can loop your index finger ocer the pouch. But pinching & loosing is not too dissimil5to how one draws & oooses with a thumb ring; at least I think so. *I wrote this before watching the vid so I unintentionally repeat some information.
I appreciate the time and comment my friend. A lot of trial and error on my part for sure. I remember having a few sling shots when I was a younger fellow. All home made of course, growing up on a farm we did what we had to do LOL. I be found too much pressure from the index finger will affect and throw off the shot. I really appreciate you and your time. Have a great evening. Best regards
@@ScottWinters that's definitely true too much pressure is a problem. Trial and error is time consuming but certainly a valid method as at some point when the first bow ever was invented there were no instructions; everything started as trial and error. Interestingly in recent years there have been many people looking into medieval archery. Turns out many longbows reflexed & not just the typical D shape. Also looking at medieval art & other sources it seems technique was far less standard as archers are shown using a 3-dinger draw, thumb draws & other draws! We are arrows nocked on the left & the right of the bows too. So it seems there were a variety of styles & likely it depended what village or family you learned from.
When I loose with a thumb ring I push forward into my index finger slightly & essentially snap with my index finger. What I find this does is allow my thumb to release g get out of the way extremely quickly which seems to help me with accuracy. It's kind of the same idea as some modern trigger releases for compound bows...or at least thats how I think of it.
I was going to mention the release being like a modern release but failed to mention it. Thanks for posting that comment. Have a great evening. Best regards
That release where you bring your hand back like that is how it's done in Kyudo. Were those the types of videos you saw? The Yumi is a very elegant bow and I definitely want one someday.
I’ve seen so many videos on this style of archery. That may be where I picked it up. I agree on the Yumi bow. I’ve priced a few but they are well out of my price range. I love that style of archery. I find it interesting that the goal is not the target, but more so the zen of the style. I appreciate your time Jackie. I hope you have a great evening. Best regards
I just got today that same Hungarian longbow you got a year ago (watched those videos before watching this). The thumb draw is the weirdest thing to learn. Seeing my grip after one afternoon close to where you got over the last year was very encouraging. I did have one question: After a year of working on thumb draws and more Asiatic methods, how did you figure a higher nock point worked for you with the Hungarian bow, or did you gravitate more towards a level nock point?
Thank you for the comment and the feedback on your purchase. The nock point on the string definitely needs to be higher. It helps with accuracy for sure. Hang in there and be consistent my friend. You will get there in no time. When I started it took me a while but I told myself it would not best me. Keep in touch about your journey my friend. Have a great day! Best regards
Protip after 8 years of exclusively using thumb draw: stretch the thumb and exercise its extensors. It's awkward but can be done with standard rubber bands or even using the other hand for resistance and it will save you from injuries and painful conditions, and time wasted on PT!
Thank you for the insight. I really appreciate it. I definitely want to avoid any injuries if my own doing. Thank you again. Have a great evening. Best regards
Scott, what brand of the target are you using? Is it lasting for you? I have been finding I quickly shot out the center of my fairly expensive foam target.
Hey Mark. Thanks for the question. I am using a Bulldog target. It’s the plus version. They have a lot to choose from and all come with a lifetime guarantee. If you wear it out they say they will replace it or skin. They are but pricey but so far mine has been worth it. I caught them on sale and the wife purchased for me as a gift. Of course that meant I had to get rid of all my diy targets. It’s all I use now. Check out bulldogtargets dot com. Have a great day my friend. Best regards.
