I owned a 66 turbo corvair coupe and raced a lot of cars in it during my youth. The driver shifted far too early, in the low revs. He should have pulled a 7 second 0-60 all day and smoked the Miata. The 66 Corvair Turbo is 110HP until that turbo kicks and it leaps to 180HP. You also would have heard the turbo whine. One of the best cars I have ever owned.
An 08 Miata has a 0-60 of 7 seconds. Better gearing, better suspension, broad powerband that’s only 15hp down, 6 gears instead of 4, and less fear of breaking it all add up to a good difference in performance. I’m sure if driven without worry the Corsair would be closer and maybe beat the Miata. But, at best it’d be a close race at best.
Yeah those 180 engines aren't pulling full HP until in high rpm range. That run the driver wasn't even engaging the turbo. But the likelihood of braking things goes up if you start really pushing it, so I can see why they really didn't race it...
@@icuinthelight Gen 1: 1960-64. Gen 2: 1965-69. I had a 1965 Corsa convertible with 4 carbs. Wonderful car and for the year, more technologically advanced than the Porsche 911. Just a few inexpensive mods made it handle much better than when it came from the factory.
Nice video... .love the bonus. ...but there was no doubt in my mind that the Miata would take the Corvair. Modern technology. That being said, I'd rather own the Corvair!
No engine shot in the video was blasphemy ... the Corvair was the first production turbo car (1 gen) and is Amazing American technology that was lost to the Pony car revolution and cheap gas. My Corsa 140 will be converted to turbo when I get time ... modern turbo and EFI ... I'll beat the Miata :P
The stock 1966 turbo six had 180 hp. A stock 140 hp Corsa is faster than 18 sec. 1/4 mi. My 3500 lb 91 Camaro with 180hp would run a 17 flat and that was slow. I think the driver was a little scared of hurting the car or something.
I also drove a 66 Corsa 4 carb 140hp(I'm sure it didn't have 140hp by the time I drive it)as my first car in the mid 70's and it was nowhere near the shape this car was in. It would have run better than an 18 sec quarter. It also had the stock 13" tires and wheels on it. That helped the gearing some as I'm sure that this car has 15" wheels and tires. SHOULD HAVE LET JAY LENO DRIVE IT. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believeth in Him shall not parish but have everlasting life. God Bless and stay safe. As Bob Dylan said, "The times they are a changing."
You obviously know Corvairs. With a turbo you need to leave at 4000 RPM and shift at 5500 RPM to get the most power from a Corvair. Hard on the car? Yes, henceforth the above Corvair ran the way it did. It's a museum piece after all.
Yes, and some attempt at having an even start. The launch makes the difference in a drag race. Leave hard as possible with an even start, and if you can't fix a broken clutch, no need to be participating in drag racing at all!
I started to buy a new 67 Corvair, but bought a new 67 SS427 instead. I wish I still had either one of them now. I too love the shape of the 66 & 67 Corvair, but I probably would have had a small block Chevy V8 with rear wheel drive before long.
The Turbo Corsa was very crude, and had no waste gate or intercooler. In most circumstances the 140 HP four carb would outperform a turbo because of it's wider power band.
I'm surprised that the boosted Corvair got tromped, because it's horsepower and torque numbers we're better. It was, no doubt handicapped by having only four gears, as opposed to the Miata's six.
I was expecting better performance out of the Corsa Corvair. Maybe they should have switched drivers for some races. Nevertheless, given the choice between the two, I'd still choose the Corvair. In part because I'm more fond of the NA & NB Miata's and I've just always liked Corvairs.
The shifter coupling bushing at the transaxle must have been shot. Or, the shift bracket on the floor had loose bolts. That shift lever moved much too far for something to not be right. That, and the short-shifting the driver was doing...
They have a short shifter for the car. The link that connects the shifter linkage to the transmission is also famously know for becoming loose and sloppy. In my case, It was almost impossible to get the car into reverse before I replaced it.
Of course the Miata is faster...the Corvair is 55 years old! Still nothing beats driving a unique and beautiful antique example of American Iron from tbev1960s
@@kurtlamprecht93 Um...it's an idiomatic expression. I've owned Corvairs for many years and am well aware of the Corvair engine. By the way, the cylinders ARE cast iron...
Michael has a point. Back in the '70's, I owned both '65 and'66 Corvairs. Both had the stock 4 Rochester carburetors on the 140 H.P. engine. At the same time, a friend had a '66 180 H.P. turbo Corsa. Out of the hole, I could leave him way behind. But, once his turbo spooled, up he'd slingshot past me. IMHO, if you wanna race a Miyata in the quarter mile, you'd be better off with the 140 motor and not change gears until peak torque. I've driven a lot of upscale sporty cars, but my 2nd gen Corvairs remain the most fun and best handling ever. I loved everything about them - totally civilized, versatile with indestructible engines. And the Italian designed body was a treat!
Bad driving skills, my 65 140hp Corsa ran 16.0's all day long at OCIR in 1974 when I was in high school with just jetting and distributor work and Piper headers with some actual speed shifting. Ran 18.00 first run weeks after getting my licence and was a blast in the SoCal canyons too.
The driver in the Corvair needed to add boost pressure when taking off. That makes a lot of difference at the track in a turbocharged car or truck. I never really heard the turbo kick in on any of those runs. Also, those long throws in the Corvair shifter certainly add time when compared to the short throw shifter in the Mazda Miata! When driven properly, that Corvair should beat the Miata hands down. You just have to know how to drive a turbocharged car at the track. 😉
It's hard to pre-load the turbo in a manual car, also the Corvair turbo was designed to only make useable boost over 3,000 rpm because it didn't have a waste gate.
@@hoodagooboy5981 Yes, it’s harder to build up boost pressure with a manual transmission, but it can be still be done with a heavier duty racing clutch, racing fly wheel that’s balanced along with a line lock. I have a Buick GN prototype engine in my ‘83 GMC S-15 4wD pickup truck which was the very 1st GN engine swap conversion of it’s type in the US. Turbo magazine even begged me to have them do a feature story on that engine conversion in 1989. However, I never got around to it. At that time, I was getting 20 pounds of boost with no detonation while using Eldebrock Water/Alcohol injection with a couple gallons of Turbo Blue racing fuel added to the tank. I had a T-5 with short throw shifter, adjustable waste gate with a line lock too. My heads were blueprinted and flow tested and matched to my intake. I even had a Turbonetics racing compressor wheel with Stage 3 Kenny Duttwieiler Racing cam with TRW Stainless Steel racing valves too. The GMC Syclone didn’t come out until 1991 so I was two years ahead of that. Currently that truck is in storage. Of course, it helps to know how to drive a turbocharged car, or truck with a manual transmission in a drag race at a drag strip. You have to keep the RPM’s up when launching off of the line.
My Dad tried to teach me "power shifting" in a 68 Camaro. When it was my turn to drive, I proptly broke the left motor mount and the trans mount and sawed the upper radiator hose in two. Drive it like you stole it.
That 2008 Miata ( MX-5 ) is a great car to learn how to shift a manual transmission. Clutch is very light & its shifter has a relatively short throw into every gear. How do I know ? Well I'm driving the newer updated version a 2016 MX-5 Club soft top. Its about 2340 pounds rated at 155 hp with 148 ft / lbs of torque. A blast to drive !
Evidently, they didn't teach the Corvair driver long enough. Roughly the same weight of cars, but more horsepower and more torque in the Corvair, this should have been a lot closer.!
Corvair, Miata...change drivers 2,out of 3...change drivers again. Don't race the Corvair if you have to baby shift! Put John Force behind the wheel jeez!
@@370gtalej5 my friend took his last year production 1969 Corvair Convertable and did custom rear suspension modifications using "newer" Corvette suspension. Stays put in his garage so we'll never know what its like...
Learned how to drive a 4-speed at age 15 in my friend's Corvair 140. It ran good but the shifter was kinda mushy. He installed bigger wheels and tires and cranked the rear camber and it cornered great. Car was great fun for us teenagers.
@@troynov1965 yes because the corvair got traction from the go and the hemi spun its tires a ton before getting the traction. Its was an add advertising isky cams. Thr corvair was very well prepared in ALL areas, they told how it was done. But it was true, I got a friend looking up the orgional add for me. I will post this when I get it.
It should be noted that the 180 Corvair Corsa was rated gross, not net like today. Chevy's technical papers on the 180 showed it actually put out 186 hp gross but only 145 net. Conversely the 140 Corsa only put out 110hp by todays standard. The transaxle also had quite a bit of drag as compared to cars today, some say as much as 20% meaning the 180 Corsa was only putting down somewhere in the neighborhood of 115-120whp. While the late model was still only about 2450 lbs, 120 hp is still rather modest.
I feel like they were being super gentle on the old car and was beating the hell outta the new car. It's easier to fix the new car if they break it and parts are hard to find for the corvair. That's why the outcome was what it was.
@@icuinthelight 🤣🤣🤣🤣... I guess you can call me a kid... seeing as the last corvair produced was 12 years before I was born. Soooooo... ya, that makes them pretty old. Seeing as I'm 42. And, I'm sure there is plenty of them around still. And, sure SOME parts are easily found. But, if they blow up the turbo on that thing or crack a block then they arent exactly going down to the nearest auto zone to get parts for them. Now, are they?!?... I do like corvair monza and corsairs. And, I've always thought the yenko ones were pretty awesome. But, never liked them enough to actually buy one. They're just not my cup of tea. Everyone has their favorite flavor. That's just not mine. Maybe if you were driving that old corvair, you woulda shown that newfangled miata a little backside throttling... huh...??🤣👍👌
@@icuinthelight OK... OK... that was a pretty good run. Looked very modified... and still only ran a 13 sec 1/4 mi.🤣👍. Not saying you can make a miata with a stock engine run much faster... but still, sounded like a wounded donkey and the gear shifts were as notchy as my bedpost. Like I said before, everyone has a flavor... corvair just ain't mine. Not saying they arent an interesting niche in the hobby... cuz, I like the way they look. But, they're not a porsche 930 turbo... or a toyota supra... a 69 dodge charger or even a L79 nova. You have to wring that thing out SUPER hard to make any kind of power. It's just not worth it. Drive them for the fun little classic cars that they are. Nothing more nothing less.
Keep the stick training going the corvair driver needed hands on training on how a turbo spools up to launch more efficient clutch dropping at 700 rpm not much to talk about
The Chevrolet Corvair was the closest thing to the Porsche 911, rear mounted, aluminum air cooled and six cylinder horizontally opposed configuration engine. Dave...
If the Corvair had modern mechanicals (tech, engine upgrades, suspension), I'd take the Corvair. It's one of the most beautifully designed cars ever made.
Yeah...looked like the old boy was a little conservative with the power that his engine could generate. Need to see it again with a higher shift point.
an old drag racing trick for the corvair was to loosen the fan belt so that when your racing the car would throw the belt off and give you a little more power
After the “Unsafe at Any Speed”, early model of the Corvair, GM changed the rear suspension and these cars handled and were fun to drive. So after getting it right, GM then Killed Off the Corvair.
Actually, the early suspension was checked out by the Transportation Administration and was found to be just fine. As for the late models, they were designed and on the market before Nader's book ever came out.
I really enjoy this. You guys “launch” vehicles without putting any major stress to the drivetrain. I consider this a proper “launch”. Especially when it’s your own vehicle and you know you have to live with it for many years to come. 👍🏻👏🏻 So many people get caught up with what’s on paper. Doing those claimed 3sec or lower launch’s is an incredible amount of shock to the drivetrain. If you don’t have to do maintenance to it, sure, go nuts and destroy clutches and whatever else gets eaten alive with those type of starts. Even the Bugatti does a gentle start and still managed to crush the opposition. 👏🏻
The drivers not only not only had an incredible slow reaction time, but not one race made any attempt to have an even start.. They not only knew nothing about driving a stick shift, but didn't seem to know anything else about drag racing!
The corsair corsa had the best instrument panel out there. Big 140mph speedometer ,big tach with cylinder temp gauge, pressure gage and two more. Sound was fantastic also.Not a fair fight. 1960s tech vs 1990.
I owned a 65 turbo, and I both road raced (closed course) and drag raced it. I only took it to the strip once and it did 104 mph in 14.0 seconds. I was abusive on the start to compensate for turbo lag. I floored the throttle with the yellow and dropped the clutch on green. I eliminated a 283 Chevy II and a 350 El Camino before being eliminated by a studebaker lark (R3 Avanti engine). I saw a 64 with an automatic turn high 12 second because he could get full boost on the line. At club events I could beat everything in my class including porches and solid axle corvettes. In 1965 porches did not have the power, and the Corsa had four wheel independent suspension. Research Corvair racing history for yourself. The corsa should have been behind at the start, but zoom-zoomed past the Mazda well before the finish. Even with an easy start the Corvair should have run a 15.0 1/4 if shifted at redline. Nuff Said
My father owned a '66 Corsa convertible. I remember the Corsa as having four 1 bbl carbs and was rated at 140 HP. The turbo was the Spyder and was rated at 180 HP. I own an '18 Miata Club and it is a MUCH better overall car. As it should be 55 yrs of engineering improvements.
I wonder if they told Tim Allen they were going to drag race his car? Loaning a car for display is one thing. Loaning it for them to wail on it is another.
The problem for the Corvair is how the turbo is setup. It uses a pretty large turbo for the engine and uses plain bearings inside the turbo charger. That means it takes forever and a day for it to spool up. Also, you are guaranteed to destroy the motor if you keep the turbo up for too long. This is 60's technology we're talking about here. A better comparison would have been the 140HP Corvair since it doesn't need nearly as long to reach peek power.
The Corvair was a car way ahead of its time and misunderstood. If it had been built after 2010, it would have been successful because today there are elements and additives that required its proper functioning. Especially when it comes to oil leaks.
And, ladies and gentlemen of the comments section: The car is a CORVAIR, not a Corsair. The model of Corvair which was performance-oriented with either the turbo or the 140hp engine as standard was called CORSA, which is Italian for "racer". A Corsair was originally an ocean-going French pirate vessel, then a couple hundred years later the Navy hung the name on a fighter plane made by Chance-Vaught (F4-U Corsair). Again... it's a CORVAIR, not Corsair. And the factory "hotrod" version was a Corvair CORSA, in '65 and '66. The turbo engine was only available in the CORSA models of Corvair, in '65 and '66. The earlier model Corvairs supplied with turbochargers were all SPYDERS, '62-'64. Just thought I'd mention it. :-) PS: The standard variant of Corvair was called Monza. Monza is a race course in Italy.
In high school, I once drove my grandma's 63 Monza, My aunt had a black 63 Monza Then my dad bought a 66 silver Monza with factory chrome spokes that had those knockoffs. Sharp looking!!!. I took my driver's license test in that. I once drove it in the fast lane of a Los Angeles freeway going 70 mph..kinda spooked me since I was just learning to drive. We would race it against a Ford Econoline pickup of my uncle. Since the Corvair was new, the rings got fried to the cylinder walls. Then I got my own cars. Would like to get a 66 Monza with a 4 speed now..
In 1965 my 1962 102 hp corvair did 19.00 the time I ran it. My 1968 Corvair..140hp did 17.0 something..that broke my dial in time..only two runs. By the way ..no wheel spinhere?
These guys are too scared to rag the cars. Every car's been 1 or 2 seconds slower on the quarter than they are capable of. My 126hp 1965 VW Beetle (still with 1285cc) runs a 15:08 and its not even built for drag racing
Love this. Had a 2007 Grand Touring Miata and now have a 2010 Grand Touring. So much fun to drive and really gets a great start. Only had it up to 100 before shutting down due to light weight and on a road with dips. Can you say going airborne??? lol Still had over 2500rpms to go before redlining.
Yep , the Miata's are a blast to drive especially the soft tops now they have the Retractable Fastback roof as a choice. The 2016 Club I have is so nimble in the corners plus quicker off the line with the LSD & light BBS wheels. For a modern car its easy to work on & do the normal maintenance. I daily drive this car.
Like a lot of boomers, I’ve owned both… and both were convertibles. A 62 Corvair Monza , 4 speed, and a 2002 Miata, also 4 spd. Lots of fun with two little ragtops.. 40 years apart. oh, and there was a 67 Camaro SS 4spd convertible in between.😊. Another crazy fact, none had power tops.
3:08 "How to drive stick". We call it a manual gear box. Not long ago everyone knew how to drive a manual and if they didn't well you didn't get in with them because they couldn't bloody drive. Todays drivers lack so much skill it's frightening. You had eight cars there, we only saw four in action!
Back in the mid 60s, Chevy marketed the Corvair as competition for the Mustang. You all know how that turned out. Corvair discontinued, Mustang still in production.
That was then. The Viton seals didn't show up until later. While the car was out of production, a reseal with Viton solved most of the problem. Chevrolet service was just as terrible back then as it is today.
The Corvair turbo models are at a disadvantage in a drag race. The turbo takes forever to build boost. I have owned Corvairs of both types and the naturally aspirated ones do better at the drag strip. I raced stock 1964 Corvair (110 hp motor) and made ET's of 17.75 routinely. That was going through the lights in 3rd gear (out of 4).
Really miss my Corsa 2-door. Yes, I'd rather drive it than a Miata. Yes, the Miata can go faster, but marginally. The Corvair and the Miata, if both were produced today in side-by-side factories w/modern tooling would have much different prices. The Corvair would be a quite acceptable driver, more usable & cost effective.The age-old racing adage rings true: the only substitute for cubic inches is cubic money.
Had two corvair. Can't believe this. Valves probably need Adjust on corvair. That was critical to performance on corsair. I seriously think . If I had been driving results would have been different. Whoops did I say that!!! It is what it is!😁😆😅🤣
The Miata has an extremely short throw, shifting much faster than the Corvair. Further, the Miata has more gears, and, it is built for high revs, so I am not surprised that the Miata won. This is the difference in modern tech. Neither are drag racers, though, and the real enjoyment of driving each one has nothing to do with sheer speed.
I seriously doubt the Corvair still has 180HP and on top of that is the fact that before 1971 car makers rated horsepower for a given engine on a test bench and not at the rear wheels. This is why the 166HP Miata smoked the Corvair.
Your Corvair Corsa times are weak. My 1965 Corvair Corsa powered with a stock 140 horsepower( 4 one barrel carbs) and 4 speed consistently ran mid to high 16 second quarter mile runs at our local drag strip back in the early 1970's.
not super surprised the Corvair didn't win but I don't think it got a fair shake here. Part driver, part gearing, and back in 1966 HP was measured at the crank not the wheels so it really didn't have a power advantage over the Miata. Btw I own a 1965 140 Monza and while it's not drag racer it's so fun to drive
Was that Quentin Tarantino under that helmet? No. Quentin's hands would have been flapping so much he wouldn't have been able to hold the steering wheel.
A rear air cooled flat six aluminum engine, this also describes a porsche. They are similar in that respect, who knows what it could have become with development, if not for Nader.
It was America's Porsche ... just not Germany's. Cost a lot less to own and run, back then. An interesting, fun car in its own right. Similar layout but without forged pistons, overhead cams, hemispherical chambers, Weber/Solex carbs, 5 speed. America's Porsche, in other words.
The torque of an engine is in lb-ft, as in the caption, not ft-lbs, which is twisting torque, as for bolts. The 6-speed in the Miata makes a big difference in performance.
