I understood and have applied the two axis of forgiveness but I'd never heard the therapeutic vs merited forgiveness. Wow! That's helpful! Well said...thank you! And I'm so happy to hear about your health!! Praise the Lord!
But actually that's not fully accurate. The therapeutic model is not about the client feeling good. Although some therapists have subscribed to their notion-- it's their personal bias.
Even though Tim is in Heaven, we have his heart and mind with us. Thank you, Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit, for Tim. Also, thank you deeply for Kathy, who carries on with her heart and mind.
Shia Labeouf said it best in his interview with Jon Bernthal - 'People may not forgive me, but I know that I have been forgiven." Only a person who has had an encounter with Christ can fully understand that.
Love this. Thing about splits and forgiveness. If this thinking was applied to church matters, the split from the Roman Cstholic Church would not have happened ?
To speak to someone who we feel who has wronged us, we need to be in a place of forgiveness for that confrontation to be helpful and healing--- else it is just vengeance and is harmful.
Yes we have seen a pastor have an affair with his best friend’s wife, leave his wife and 5 children, said he repented, refused to reconcile with his wife and now is a pastor again and the top dog.
@@jamesbarringer2737 I obviously do not know you nor your spiritual condition/backstory, and secondly, while the political system and parties that we now have did not exist in Jesus’s time, participation in public policy was something He absolutely did. Scripture is replete with taking biblical positions on what we in contemporary times would call “political”. He affirmed capital punishment (Matthew 26:52), He affirmed that marriage is between one man and one woman (Matthew 19:5), He affirmed how to pay expected taxes (Matthew 22:21), while Scripture also condemns abortion (Exodus 20:13, Exodus 21:22-25, Psalm 139:13-16), and supports self defense (Exodus 22:2-3, Luke 11:21). A Christian most certainly should stand faithfully for biblical truth, while proclaiming the Gospel of grace alone by faith alone in Christ alone, in all aspects of this post modern world in which we find ourselves, one that hates God by nature and by choice; especially in the heathen city in which Keller resides. While biblically bold, solid men such as Voddie Baucham, Paul Washer, John MacArthur, Conrad Mbewe, Steve Lawson, Jeff Durbin, Al Mohler, Alistair Begg, Sinclair Ferguson, and Tom Ascol have no reluctance to call evil for what it is, the fact that Keller refuses to do so speaks volumes. Is condemning “drag queen story hour” too political, as well?
@@jamesbarringer2737 “Dude”, I assure you that I take systematic theology very seriously, as a Reformed Protestant. An exegesis of any text is critical. The Bible proclaims what people need to hear not what they want to hear. Keller avoids issues where he will be hated by the world, which is precisely what we were told to expect, per John 15:18. He refuses to condemn sodomites as sinners, he believes in evolution, he supports critical race theory, and he avoids giving a straight answer regarding the murder of unborn children. I am not a member of either of the major two political parties, but Keller’s “third way” nonsense that “both parties are wrong, but they are equally wrong” is inaccurate and very misleading.
@@patrickc3419 Sorry Patrick - I was giving into inner demons. Best to ignore everything I said. I had sworn off op-ed comments because they bring out the worst in me, but I got the itch and couldn't resist scratching. Now my senses have returned, at least a bit. BTW, I like Voddie Baucham as well. You and I agree on more than you'd guess.
@@jamesbarringer2737 No that’s fine..unity in essentials; discussion in nonessentials. Paul & Barnabas disputed in Acts 15. Luther & Zwingli disagreed on consubstantiation. MacArthur & Sproul disagreed on eschatology.
It seems Tim Keller is agitated that people are leaving his church and wants to blame the people for not willing to forgive. But what if they are leaving the church because they realize that their pastors have been lying to them and have compromised on Scripture and true Biblical teaching? I would be interested to hear Tim's response to "is there ever a time when you SHOULD leave a local church and if so, under what circumstances?" (For example, when the church starts teaching a false gospel)
Tim is not agitated. He wants you to know and feel the love of Christ. He is encouraging you to try to focus on Christ's words, rather than the failures of pastors, or church members, or other Christians. Remember that forgiveness is individual. Forgiveness will free YOU and YOUR soul, which is so very important. Your soul is of paramount importance. Christ loves you and is very concerned with whatever has hurt you and whatever you find hard or impossible to forgive. He wants you to be free. Tim is concerned with the Church and its members becoming forgivers. Tim wants you and me to know that unforgiveness keeps us in bondage. (I Cor. 7:23).
@@tonikirk5493 I understand what you are trying to say but I think you're missing something that Tim has been neglecting to say. Tim and many other pastors have misled many in the church to believe that they must obey the government over what God says. Not only that but they intentionally slandered other good pastors who clearly saw the problem with this ans warned people to not obey government over God. So this wasn't a simple mistake but much more serious than that. Now Tim is talking as if nothing happened and we should just forget about it and forgive these pastors who essentially betrayed their flock and had no discernment. I agree we should forgive but as Tim says here, that does not mean that these people should be trusted with power or authority again. This is one of the main reasons why many people are leaving these pastors and instead of acknoledfing this and saying the truth of why this is happening, Tim is making it sound like those church members are not forgiving. That is deceitful. Instead of acknowledging that they messed up and asking for forgiveness for misleading people, they are doubling down and blaming the flock for not wanting to stay in churches that have turned their back to Biblical principals. This is similar to the example Tim gives in this video of a woman who is abused should forgive but should not be expected to stay or go back to the abusive relationship. Only Tim wants to apply that only to that example but not to pastors who have abused their authority and misled their flock.
@@swankypants6227 why are you trying to pivot the conversation away from what we're taking about and insinuate a false narrative that someone hurt me? You can engage in a conversation about the facts of what's being discussed?
@@leahklett Your response... You are a very gracious human. Clearly asking for forgiveness for putting ppl in their place on YT is not something you have to worry about.
