Titanic Tropes: SS Californian Does Nothing (1943-2012)

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All scenes of either the Californian or the so-called "Mystery Ship" being near Titanic and not coming to their aid.
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4 апр 2023

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Комментарии : 262

@legothoron1 3 месяца назад

"her rockets were reported to her captain, Stanley Lord but he does nothing, goes back to sleep and will spend the rest of his life trying to explain"

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Месяц назад

And following his death in 1962, his son, Stanley Tutton Lord spends the rest of his life fighting in attempt to defend his father and get his name cleared from the records of the Titanic disaster.

@d-resmin Год назад

The Californian is the exact reason a law was passed that required ships to have a radio operator on at all times.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 7 месяцев назад

Yeah, the Californian, the Carpathia, and other ships nearby that missed the Titanic’s distress call.

@insane_rail_lover 6 месяцев назад

@@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACYthe Carpathia didn’t miss the distress call.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 6 месяцев назад

@@insane_rail_lover Well, she missed the first few signals until Harold Cottam returned to his cabin to wear his headphones while only in the process of getting undressed for bed.

@stevenmarler5154 5 месяцев назад

Why didn't the California wake up their radio operator and call the ship to find out what was going on?

@wayneantoniazzi2706 4 месяца назад

@@stevenmarler5154 THAT is the $1,000 question! All anyone on Californian had to do was wake up the wireless man and ask him to find out what was going on, he wouldn't have said no. No initiative on the part of Californian's officers on watch nor the captain.

@hughjassol2072 6 месяцев назад

Breaks my heart the James Cameron cut The Californian scene out of the film. 99 percent of people get all their knowledge from his film. So most people have never heard of The Californian

@leoorduna2199 5 месяцев назад

I remember reading a book about the sinking of the Titanic and in the book it had mentioned Californian seeing the Titanic's firing it's flares. I was so shocked to actually read that part in the book and I was surprised that it was never in the movie until viewing the deleted scene years later.

@wayneantoniazzi2706 5 месяцев назад

Cameron said he had no choice but to cut the Californian sequences. The movie was running long and starting in the 1990s theater chains didn't want movies to run TOO long, it cut down on the amount of showings per day. Cameron's no Californian apologist, not by a long shot.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 28 дней назад

The Californian has a much bigger role in the 1958 movie A Night To Remember.

@davidjolly7464 2 дня назад

The Californian was seen in 1997 titanic film

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 2 дня назад

@@davidjolly7464 Only in a deleted scene, though.

@thestooge200 Год назад

Boy, can you imagine being on that crew and finding out that you let a ship sink without any help?

@CaptainJZH Год назад

Tbf because they had powered down for the night it may have taken them a couple hours to reach them so the ship would have sank before they arrived - but they might've been able to launch boats to rescue survivors in the water

@tanylok36 Год назад

I wonder if they had any guilt at all.

@matthewjdenn Год назад

@@CaptainJZH ...or help those that were freezing to death on the collapsibles that were dying throughout the night.

@jacobmassey3897 Год назад

@@tanylok36embers of the crew felt guilty but their captain was only interested in protecting his reputation even if that meant laying all the blame on his officers. Alsp the log book in which they recorded all witnessed activities of the Titanic that night conveniently went missing by the time the enquiry into the sinking began.

@wanderinglion4208 Год назад

⁠@@CaptainJZHnot that long they were pretty close even thought the engines were Power ed down

@rexoates4484 Год назад

I noticed over my years of being a fireman that, sometimes horrible things happen, not because of one problem, but numerous things happening. It’s like so many things just happened to occur at the same time. Going too fast. The missing binoculars. The dumb lifeboat standards. The dead calm sea. The moonless night. All the ingredients were just right for a terrible tragedy to happen and it did.

@pondking2801 5 месяцев назад

Lookouts in that situation did not use binoculars as they restrict vision too much. This story is urban folklore.

@wayneantoniazzi2706 5 месяцев назад

The binos are an "iffy" thing, the usual procedure was to scan with the naked eye and then use binoculars to make a positive ID. That being said the Titanic disaster is a perfect example of what airplane pilots call "All the holes in the swiss cheese lining up," that is all the little things coming together to make one BIG thing, like a disaster.

@pmpcpmpc4737 3 месяца назад

Indeed. Add to it the main problem. Capt. Smith not reacting to warnings about ice (we know that he responded to at least two of them - from Caronia and Baltic), with Baltic-given coordinates of ice only two miles off Titanic's planned route. Furthermore, Capt. Smith not changing course (like Mount Temple did) not slowing down, not putting extra watch on the bow (like Californian did), not staying on the bridge in a dangerous situation, not firing rockets as early as sending wireless distress calls (first wireless at 12.27, first rocket only at 12.47), not launching rockets in correct intervals etc. As you say, so many factors combined that night.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 9 месяцев назад

Today is the 108th anniversary of the day the SS Californian sank in the Mediterranean Sea after she was torpedoed by a German U-Boat and she still hasn’t been found.

@HinckleyBranchRailfan 6 месяцев назад

She was torpedoed twice actually. First one was by U-34 but U-34 failed to sink her. After the Submariner fled, a French Patrol Boat came to take her in tow but then Californian was torpedoed again and this time by U-35.

@SápmiBestCountry 6 месяцев назад

The Californian wreck probably disintegrated before we could find it

@HinckleyBranchRailfan 6 месяцев назад

@@SápmiBestCountryhighly unlikely but we never know.

@Where_is-it 4 месяца назад

@@SápmiBestCountryprobably not but it is estimated at a depth of 13 000 fts deep or around 4km deep, in miles that is around 2 and a half miles deep

@robertolmstead1346 3 месяца назад

The wreck is in water deeper than where Titanic is, but it requires major financial resources to dive to those depths. Californian does not have enough interest that Titanic had so there would be no return on that investment.

@dougg2012 Год назад

“Strange that she’d be firing rockets at night…she seems to be listing…well, I’m sure it’s nothing! Off to bed!”

@pondking2801 5 месяцев назад

As it happens, the officer who thought she was listing was very junior, and wrong. Titanic did not list but went down by the bow. The more experienced officers were correct that she was not listing and appeared to be headed away.

@justinebautista1383 4 месяца назад

@@pondking2801 She was listing 5 to 10 degrees and even the crew of the Californian noticed her lights to be listing to one side.

@NorthWestern1919 Год назад

I like how you included the 1956 Kraft Television Theatre version of A Night to Remember here, it's not so well-known as the film that came two years later. The whole thing was broadcasted live, essentially a televised play. That must have been quite an undertaking, especially back then!

@CaptainJZH Год назад

Yeah! It's not an adaptation that'll be regularly showing up in these videos but it'll definitely come up when I find its depiction of an event interesting (for example I'm going to be including its version of Thomas Andrews in the Smoking Room)

@SápmiBestCountry 6 месяцев назад

Californian: Titanic There Is Ice Near You Titanic: SHUT UP! WE DON’T CARE! Californian: Alright, I Will Shut Down. *Hours Later* Titanic: SOS! HELP US Californian: …………… Titanic: AHHHHHHHHHH- ploop

@insane_rail_lover 5 месяцев назад

It’s not that they didn’t care. Jack Phillips, who was the radio operator aboard the Titanic, had no sleep the previous night as he was fixing the ship’s Marconi system and had a huge backlog of messages from annoying rich people. When the Californian radioed in, Phillips had the headset at max volume so he could hear Cape Race (400+ miles away) transmit the messages. But since the Californian was less than 20 miles away, the signal came in as a loud ring in his ear, causing him to react with saying Shut Up or Keep Out. Jack Phillips had already received a few other warnings that day, let alone one from the SS Mesaba getting lost in the pile of paper. He had no idea even what the Californian was saying. All he heard was a loud squelch… Pretty much only the movie “A Night to Remember from 1958, portrays the right instant reaction he had.

@wayneantoniazzi2706 5 месяцев назад

@@insane_rail_lover Also, Californian's wireless man made a slight procdural error, he neglected to ask permission to break in to Phillip's transmissions, instead he went right into his own. The overworked and tired Phillips reacted with understandable irritation.

@allanr9163 4 месяца назад

"The Californian has finally responded!" "What's he saying?" "..-. .- ..-. ---"

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 4 месяца назад

Hours Later Around Sunrise Californian: Let’s check on the radio messages to investigate further on this very suspicious event we saw overnight. Frankfurt: The Titanic struck an iceberg and sank and had been calling for help all night!

@insane_rail_lover 3 месяца назад

@@wayneantoniazzi2706that is also true. *No hate on Cyril though, as I do understand he was only 19-20 years old and still new to working wireless sets.

@dougg2012 Год назад

You have to wonder why they didn’t wake up the wireless operator and tell him to call up the ship they could see to make sure everything is alright

@KebabMusicLtd Год назад

To wake the wireless operator Stone would have needed the Captains permission to start the engines on the ship. The wireless wouldn't have worked without electrical power. That's why Stone needed to contact the captain although technically as he was the most senior officer on watch, he should have made the decision himself and then argued with the Captain after the fact. Maybe the captain was more concerned with the coal or lack of it. Would his own ship have enough to find their way out of the ice and still make it to Boston, if they went on a wild goose chase across the ocean. There was a coal strike on in the UK at this time, so coal was in limited supply. RMS Titanic herself bought up coal from a number of other ships in Southampton docks just so she could make her Maiden voyage.

@tomcurda4203 11 месяцев назад

I doubt seriously that the ship was a dead hulk. I suspect that they kept enough steam pressure to turn the Ship Service Turbine Generators and so electricity was available.@@KebabMusicLtd

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 7 месяцев назад

He was mostly just afraid of trying to navigate that dense part of the iceberg field the Californian had stopped in while it was still dark so he just waited until around sunrise before waking the radio operator to have him check on the radio messages.

@TheSacqueboute 6 месяцев назад

The wireless set was new technology. This was especially true for the Californian as this was, I think, only the second or third voyage with the wireless set installed. So any of the bridge crew having that in their mind as an option would be remote. They did try to raise the Titanic but by the older Morse Light, but just like Titanic's attempts neither ship was able to see the others signals.

@wayneantoniazzi2706 5 месяцев назад

That's been the question for the last 100+ years. No-one on duty on Californian had enough initiative to wake up the wireless operator and ask him to find out what was going on. He wouldn't have said no. Oh, prior to WW1 rockets at sea were considered a distress signal, color was immaterial. Post WW1 the internationally agreed-on color for a distress rocket was changed to red, and red only.

@NUSORCA 3 месяца назад

40 years before titanic, before electric light and before wireless telegram, when the villagers saw white rockets being fired off the cost of Nova Scotia, they immediately came to SS Atlantic’s rescue

@johnking5174 Год назад

The 1958 A Night to Remember film has one flaw - they had an agenda, to pour a huge bucket of cow shit over the Captain and crew of the Californian. Captain Lord felt he was vilified by the film and was very angry at how he was portrayed. When you watch the Californian scenes in this movie, I have to agree, it was slanted to put all the blame on them, and make Captain Smith out to be a hero along with his crew - which of course we know they have a lot of blame attached to them too.

@dovetonsturdee7033 Год назад

A Night to Remember didn't set out to blame Captain Lord. It simply, correctly, showed three unambiguous facts :- 1). Californian's watchkeepers saw a large ship firing rockets. 2). Their concerns were brought to the attention of the captain. 3). Captain Lord's response was to do precisely nothing. At the minimum, he could have ordered his wireless operator to switch on his set to check for any unusual transmissions.

@mygetawayart 5 месяцев назад

then read the transcripts from the inquiries, with the testimony of the Californian crew. The crew saw the rockets, saw the ship's light being listing to one side and when they reported it to the captain, he asked if they were white rockets but then insisted that they could've been company signals. The captain and crew knew full well what a series of white flares, fired in short succession means. And if that wasn't enough, the scrap log, detailing the exact position of the ship and the sighting of the rockets was quickly disposed of and the official log says the ship was more than 30 miles away, at which distance you shouldn't be able to see anything at all, even on a clear night. The ship was indeed around 5 miles from the Titanic, not 30. The captain didn't even think of waking up the wireless operator to turn on the telegraph and contact the sinking ship. Their testimonies were frantic, agitated and conflicting, and their story paints a picture of incompetence, negligence and cowardice.

@wayneantoniazzi2706 5 месяцев назад

@@mygetawayart YOU SAID IT! And as Walter Lord put it so well: "Captain Lord's defenders can say what they want, but they CAN'T get away from those rockets!"

@nicholasmorsovillo2752 4 месяца назад

Aside from the crew and engineers who kept the Titanic going and the lights on as long as they did not only they were the heroes of that night so was the crew of the Carpathia as they risked everything to get to the Titanic as fast as they could.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 4 месяца назад

And so were the Carpathia’s passengers who worked so hard with the crew to make very efficient hospitality preparations for the Titanic’s survivors and selflessly gave up their warm clothes, blankets, and cabins for them while providing as many comforting words as possible.

@frednone Год назад

In an interesting coincidence both Carpathia and the Califorian were sunk by German U-Boats in WW 1.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Год назад

And they still haven’t found the wreck of the Californian.

@frednone Год назад

@@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Has anyone looked?

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Год назад

@@frednone People have been looking and looking for it for decades.

@frednone Год назад

@@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Probably misreported where she got hit, or if they just abandoned it after evacuation it stayed afloat longer than they thought it would. Thanks for the info.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 9 месяцев назад

@@frednone I hope you also know that it took over 73 years to find the Titanic after she sank and over 83 years to find the Carpathia after she sank.

@Daniel_Huffman Год назад

A lot of what the _Californian's_ crew did has been scrutinized over the century by a public that wanted to believe and still wants to believe that the massive loss of life could have been prevented. They did not just sit around and watch the _Titanic_ sink like we do when we see the various films. She also attempted to establish contact with the _Titanic_ with her own Morse lamp, but the lamps were just out of range: They could be seen, but any messages were unintelligible and/or mistaken for other workings of the ship. Rockets were not always used to indicate distress. Besides, even if the _Californian's_ crew became aware of the situation by way of the _Titanic's_ crew telepathically communicating with them, it would not change the fact that her engines were stopped and would have taken quite some time to build up sufficient steam pressure to get underway. Lawrence Beesley put it best: If you put yourself there, you must rid yourself entirely of the knowledge that the _Titanic_ has sank. Incidentally, Robert Lieberman's _Titanic_ from 1996 is the only one to correctly show Captain Lord slumped over in his chair in the chart room rather than in his bed.

@mafrarth Год назад

But the crew admited there was doubt if it was a distress signal, and that they saw the boat a bit queer out of the water, and even then they never woke their wireless operator to check. Not that it would prevent mass loss of life, but there wasn't even an attempt to check what they were seeing. Meanwhile the Carpathia was 50 miles away on a mad dash through an ice field risking it all on a feint hope that they could rescue some souls

@zyancuerdo1615 Год назад

Dude they could have checked atleast and they even admitted that they dint woke up the wireless operator meanwhile the crew of carpathia was speeding at 18 knots 4 knots more than what she was design in the middle of an ice field no less

@sly2792004 Год назад

They could woke up their radio man and had him check for messages going out from the titanic. If they had they would heard the distress calls. Would taken all of 5 mins out of their life

@sly2792004 Год назад

@@zyancuerdo1615risking boilers exploding and or hitting a iceberg while at it. Honestly I think crew of California was just pissed about the rude response they got from titanic earlier

@robertstorey7476 Год назад

Its inexplicable that they didn't wake up their wireless operator.

@rizon72 5 месяцев назад

Makes you wonder if Titanic's wireless operator had been a bit nicer would Californian's operator stayed on longer to hear the distress calls?

@mygetawayart 5 месяцев назад

the wireless operators on Titanic were overworked. The last message from the Californian, the loud one, was ignored also because it wasn't prefixed with "MSG", signaling a message to be relayed to the bridge. In any case, after becoming aware of the potential emergency, Captain Lord should've woken up his wireless operator to try and contact Titanic, but he didn't. A man's night of sleep was more important than 1500 lives that night.

@rizon72 5 месяцев назад

@@mygetawayart "A man's night of sleep was more important than 1500 lives that night." I've seen this emotional argument many times. Yet I've seen no factual evidence that the Californian could have saved lives. Yes, it was close, most put it 10ish miles away. The Californian was a slow ship, 12 knots. It would take about 50-60 minutes at top speed to travel that distance. Adding to this the ship was stopped and her boilers be needed to be brought up to steam. Its not like flicking a light switch. Don't do it right and your boiler could explode. One last thing, Californian would have had to arrive BEFORE Titanic sank with boats in the water and ready to pick up people. And even then, you still would have lives lost due to the cold water. I just haven't seen good evidence it would have arrived in time. A lot of wishful thinking, but no real, cold hard evidence.

@mygetawayart 5 месяцев назад

@@rizon72 all of that is no reason to not immediately jump to action. Not to mention, that wasn't the reason the Californian didn't act. They didn't think those white flares were distress signals, didn't think the ship listing to one side meant it was in trouble and didn't even bother turning on the telegraph to contact the Titanic. They didn't act and now no one will know if they could've saved lives or not. All we know is they did nothing while people died.

@pondking2801 5 месяцев назад

I didn’t know her boilers were not lit. That adds an hour or two before she could move. So at best she could have arrived an hour after the Titanic went down, about two hours before the Carpathia.

@mygetawayart 5 месяцев назад

@@pondking2801 which still would've saved so many lives.

@mrmlpvideogerman 3 месяца назад

The portrayal of Captain Lord in the 1950's movies is one of the worst I have ever seen. Captain Lord was not in bed, he was lying on the couch in the navigation room fully in uniform resting after spending 12 hours on the bridge and he was ready to be called if anything happened. In the end, his conversations with the officers revealed that he was not aware of the seriousness of the situation because he was half asleep.

@insane_rail_lover 3 месяца назад

The Kraft Television from 1956 just makes him look careless. I found he was actually on duty for around 16 hours. Really friggin hard day he must’ve had

@jacobmassey3897 Год назад

Just imagine how much different the fate of Titanic might have been if they'd simply provided their lookouts with binoculars and been carrying red flares as well as white.

@dave6653 Год назад

Or if the captain of the Californian wasn't a lazy moron who decided to sleep rather than sail a few miles to check on it.

@lf67hh28 Год назад

It wouldn't have been, the iceberg couldn't be seen as there was no moonlight and the Californian was still too far away to reach it prior to sinking.

@neilkurzman4907 Год назад

@@lf67hh28 Timing is everything in an accident. They did see the iceberg with their Naked Eyes and warned about it. With the binoculars, perhaps they would’ve seen it a little bit sooner. So maybe they would’ve missed it, or maybe the gash would be even longer.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 9 месяцев назад

Or if someone or something had distracted the lookouts until the Titanic reached the iceberg, then they wouldn’t have turned at all and thus would’ve hit the iceberg head on instead of along the side.

@mygetawayart 5 месяцев назад

they didn't need to have red flares. The common practise was to shoot several white flares in short succession to signal distress and as such, the Titanic (nor any other ship) carried red flares for emergencies, only white.

@justinlynch3 Год назад

I have heard theory that it wasn't just the colour of the rockets, but also the timing that confused Californian. If I remember correctly I think you're supposed to fire a rocket every minute or something to signal distress. But whatever the proper timing was, supposedly Titanic wasn't firing off the rockets correctly.

@tomcurda4203 Год назад

1 minute intervals means distress. 5 minute intervals (what Titanic was firing) indicates Navigation difficulty; Keep Clear.

@justinlynch3 Год назад

@@tomcurda4203 Interesting. So Titanic crew really wasn't doing themselves any favours then. Even for anyone who did see the rockets, if they understood the signal, Titanic was telling them to keep clear. Man that's rough. Thanks for the insight.

@Mredits-m2012mkkboy 11 месяцев назад

And jack Philips was being a dick to Californians radio operator

@wayneantoniazzi2706 5 месяцев назад

From a WW1 era US Navy handbook I've got: Rockets mean distress, there's NO mention of rocket timing or color. You see a rocket, someone's in trouble, period. You get your butt over there and investigate. This was the pre-war standard as well. Post-war the only change was distress rocket color, the became red.

@Greenpoloboy3 Год назад

My favourite movie here is A night to Remember. However I've never seen the Kraft 1956 one, so that was great seeing that clip. May need to research and watch that one.

@aleksanderkorecki7887 2 месяца назад

Captain Lord was a weird man. One author even suggested that he had some sort of mental illness. He wasn't on his best behavior and Titanic inquiries, showed no compassion for the victims, threatened his crew few times, changed his story frequently, his scrap log disappeared and he made odd remarks during a newspaper interview.

@peterlejon2168 Год назад

Imagine if the Californian would have saved all people aboard titanic, nobody would remember the ship today

@RM-we7px 5 месяцев назад

Californian had room for 47 passengers and 55 crew and a top speed of 12 knots. Ignoring rockets was wrong. But even if she got there. Maybe 150 more people saved? It was mostly a freighter. People seem to forget that.

@Where_is-it 4 месяца назад

It was probably impossible,why you might ask? Well for one major reason, the Califronian was stuck in an icefield,moving it could sink the ship,and bring an even higher deathtoll

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 4 месяца назад

@@RM-we7px Well, the Californian could’ve at least held a majority of those people on board for a number of hours until the other ships that picked up her distress call arrived.

@adrianmizen5070 3 месяца назад

or if the Carpathian had hit an iceberg in the mad dash for 4 hours to get to the Titanic's location, we wouldn't know anything that happened beyond the radio messages

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 3 месяца назад

@@adrianmizen5070 There would’ve been a greater loss of life, anyway. There were other ships that picked up the Titanic’s distress call and tried to dash to her rescue too such as the SS Frankfurt, SS Mount Temple, RMS Olympic, RMS Baltic, SS Birma, SS Mesaba, and SS Virginian. The Californian even took action to try to dash to the rescue too after they finally checked on the radio messages to investigate further and were informed about the Titanic sinking by the Frankfurt.

@Athrun82 4 дня назад

Here is an interesting Question: if the captain of the Californian had decided to contact the Titanic and move there how fast could it have been? The Californian had stopped due to the float ice. How Long would it have taken to power up the engines to have the ship turn and reach the Titanic? I mean those engines don't start at Peak power right away. Furthermore sailing through the dark with suspected ice would probably put the Californian at risk as well

@Perfectsound88 3 месяца назад

Poor Captain of Californian, Only God knows what exactly had happened and had gone thorugh their brains at that moment.

@tomcurda4203 Месяц назад

With regards to Kraft Theater; Titanic would have been on her Starboard Bow.

@LEGOandPlushLord Год назад

The Californian was the Closest ship but they did nothing to assist the Titanic

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Год назад

And there were other ships not as close as the Californian, but definitely closer than the Carpathia that didn’t do anything to assist the Titanic either.

@LEGOandPlushLord Год назад

@@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Even the Carpathia couldn't arrive in time to help the people. It would only take 4 hours to reach her.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Год назад

@@LEGOandPlushLord I know, but what I’m saying is there were ships besides the SS Californian that were closer to the Titanic than the Carpathia and could’ve arrived in less than four hours, but didn’t due to missing the distress call since their radio operators had gone to bed and completely shut down their radios for the night. The Carpathia was the closest ship to respond only because radio operator Harold Cottam had stayed up a little later than usual and wore his headphones while on no official duty, just in the process of getting ready for bed.

Год назад

SS Californian warned Titanic crew prior to the disaster but they didn't attend the warning.

@ravenel2 Год назад

Someone explained the “shut up” better than that. The radio guys on all the ships were all close friends and that’s how they spoke to each other. It was like a fraternity.

@mkowboy13 Год назад

Meatheaded captain at the very least he got fired for shame

@kaeso101 Год назад

If the Californian went they could have placed themselves under risk of icebergs

@zyancuerdo1615 Год назад

Inst that the same risked carpathia went through? Over speeding no less

@woodrufsmith2521 Год назад

They already were at risk of them. They tried to warn Titanic before she overtook them, and the wireless operator received the response "shut up, shut up. I'm working Cape Race"

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 10 месяцев назад

Well, the Carpathia did that and they successfully dodged every iceberg in their path.

@Where_is-it 4 месяца назад

Finally someone who understands that the Californian couldn't really move out of the icefield

@jandewezel 3 месяца назад

Why they never woke up the radio operator instead of calling the captain 3 times is a mystery to me.

@kiwiwarlord8152 8 месяцев назад

The thing is, even if the Californian would have recognised that the Titanic was in danger, they still wouldn't have arrived on time to save any more people.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 6 месяцев назад

Well, they definitely could’ve gotten there in less than 4 hours which was how long it took for the Carpathia to arrive.

@kiwiwarlord8152 6 месяцев назад

@@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Maybe, But as they didn't have any boilers fired up plus that they wouldn't go much faster than maybe 5 knots due to the ice I estimate it would have taken them around three hours to arrive, which still would have been way to late. At that point, everyone who died in the disaster already was dead.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 6 месяцев назад

@@kiwiwarlord8152 3 hours is still better than 4. If you don’t think so, you must not know how badly exhausted, cold, and hurt those who survived the disaster were.

@iceicebaby8469 5 месяцев назад

@@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY The SS Californian was about 32KM away from the Titanic. The Californian could go about 24KM/H (13 knots) at full speed. It took the Titanic 2 hours and 40 minutes to sink according to reports. let's say the Californian would've responded instantly, even at the low speed of 8 knots to avoid the ice field (15km/h) they would've approached just in time for the final moments of the titanic. But, they likely would've only saved a few dozen more people as the Ship itself was already too far gone and broken in half. They would've had to save people from the water, which would've been incredibly hard in the night. And since those people only had 20 minutes at best before they freeze to death, I reckon only a few extra people could've been saved.

@mygetawayart 5 месяцев назад

the problem is that they didn't even try. Their reasoning for not going wasn't "we wouldn't have made a difference anyway" (which is still an asinine defence, again, they should've gone, no matter what), but rather was that they couldn't properly identify if the ship was in distress, or if it was even the Titanic at all, despite them knowing full well what those signal flares meant and that the only ship near them, in that direction, _was Titanic_

@sharpshooter13ify Год назад

I feel a case can be made for the Californian, yes there was plenty of avoidable misunderstandings and mistakes but there was stuff genuinely beyond their control. Firstly the ship had been stopped and the engines shut off, it would have taken some time to get them up and running again. Second for the Morse lamps, the crew of the Californian would have struggled to see Titanic’s Morse lamp thanks to titanic being lit up with all possible lights. And finally both ships were completely surrounded by ice that night, even if she had been able to get underway there was no guarantee she would have found a path that got her to the Titanic any faster then the Carpathia

@jacksons1010 Год назад

It's not really a mystery: when _Californian_ got word of the sinking she fired up her boilers, made steam and got underway. Surrounded by ice, she had to pick her way through to open water to arrive at the scene of the sinking. In broad daylight that took more than four hours - let's imagine if it could even have been done at all in the dark of night. Given that _Carpathia_ was too late to do more than rescue people from the lifeboats, there is no possibility that _Californian_ could have arrived in time to anything more.

@dovetonsturdee7033 Год назад

@@jacksons1010 The issue is not what Californian did when she finally heard what had happened, but what he captain did not do when his officers told him of their concerns. By which I mean, simply telling his wireless operator to switch on the set and check for transmissions. Carpathia was too far away as well. Fortunately, her captain had some understanding of the Tradition of the Sea. Something which, sadly, Captain Lord seems to have lacked.

@jacksons1010 Год назад

@@dovetonsturdee7033 These events occurred in 1912: use of the wireless for ship-to-ship communications was *not* routine. You seem to assume that waking the radio operator would be an obvious thing to do - it wasn't. Not only that, you're making the judgement based on hindsight; the Captain of the _Californian_ had sent out a warning, noting that he had stopped due to ice and gave his position. Seeing another ship come to a stop, one would naturally assume it was due to the very same ice or in heed of that warning. Had another few minutes passed _Carpathia_ would have shut down her wireless and missed the SOS from _Titanic_ as well...but would anybody be condemning them for not hearing the SOS? I think not.

@dovetonsturdee7033 Год назад

@@jacksons1010 'Use of the wireless for ship-to-ship communications was not routine.' Actually, among the minority of wireless equipped ships in service at the time, it was. What 'hindsight judgement' am I making? Californian & Titanic had already been in communication with each other, and Californian's officers were so concerned about the flares that they had alerted Captain Lord. Where is the hindsight there? Moreover, making such an assumption, that Titanic had stopped, would hardly have explained the rockets, would it? Had Carpathia shut down her wireless and thus not received the distress signal, that would have been entirely different, as she was not within visual range of Titanic, and could not therefore have seen any flares. Californian's situation was that she was in visual range, saw the flares, yet her captain chose not to take even the simplest of actions to determine what was happening.

@jacksons1010 Год назад

@@dovetonsturdee7033 There was no expectation of 24-hour availability of the wireless - that is my meaning. It was not routine to expect ship-to-ship communications in the middle of the night, sir. You are inevitably applying the knowledge that _Titanic_ sank in making judgements on the behavior of _Californian_ ... that's what hindsight means. You assume they should've roused the radio operator, and you assume that rockets meant a ship in distress (they did not). Lastly, your statement "her captain chose not to take even the simplest of actions to determine what was happening" is outright false. _Californian_ made multiple attempts to signal via Morse lamp (which would be the expected procedure, not waking up the wireless operator) but _Titanic_ did not reply. The fact that nobody on _Titanic_ saw that Morse lamp signalling is prime evidence that the ships were not so close as alleged - if 10 miles or less it should have been plainly visible to _Titanic_ .

@benquinneyiii7941 Год назад

I’m going back to bed

@mygetawayart 5 месяцев назад

1500 people died? oopsie

@PRR5406 Год назад

Wow, not better than a good night's sleep. I would like to point out, the 1943 clip was created under the Ministry of Propaganda, headed by Josef Goebbels. It was to illustrate the English charging unreasonable fares to poor Germans, then allowing them to drown in the Atlantic because they were merely Germans. The use of the film clip is absolutely relevant to the topic and research, but I believe pointing out its origin is a salient point.

@cmalberts Год назад

If I recall correctly, apart from any refraction theories, Robert Ballard concluded that, based on now-known locations, that a) there was no "ghost ship" between TITANIC and CALIFORNIAN, and b) the CALIFORNIAN was a lot closer than previously estimated--perhaps as little as *5* miles. If that were the case, Captain Smith might have done well to load one lifeboat with the strongest backs and have them row hell for leather towards the ship, firing rockets along the way.

@neilkurzman4907 Год назад

In a row boat 5 miles would take a long time

@Brot1984 Год назад

How can he conclude that based on the now known position? We now know the position of the Titanic but not of the Californian. If the Titanic got its position wrong it is likely that the Californian did too.

@neilkurzman4907 Год назад

@@Brot1984 The Californian was stationary and not panicking because they weren’t sinking. We do know they were in the visual range of each other

@joetickle9676 11 месяцев назад

They did. Second Officer Lightoller launched Lifeboat 6 with the instruction "Row topwards the light on the horison. Several other boats claimed to have attempted the same thing. Drop off the passengers and come back. The lifeboats quickly found it was furthur away than it looked (the most thorough annalyses typicly agree around 12 miles) so turnerd back for the Carpathia when it appeared.

@Brot1984 11 месяцев назад

@@neilkurzman4907 For one it was not stationary it was drifting. I doubt you can Anker yourself in the middle of the Atlantic. Also you want to drift with the ice and not be stationary in the middle of it just to get hit by it. But besides that the very fact that it was no longer navigating means that they probably did not monitor their position as exactly. This was long before there was GPS keeping track of ones exact position involved some amount of work and why do that when you are not really need to know your position for the night since you are not actively moving anyway. On the other hand you are really very interested in your position while you call for help and get as much of it to you as possible. And still the Titanic came up with the wrong position. So no we do not know the correct position of the Californian and we will in all likelihood never know it.

@sneezyg1 Год назад

Didn’t they have a deleted scene from James Cameron’s film?

@CaptainJZH Год назад

They did but only for them shutting off their radio, not for them seeing rockets

@jacksons1010 Год назад

That deleted scene does serve to properly depict _Californian_ being surrounded by ice. So many people disregard that, thinking there was nothing but a few miles of open water between the two ships.

@nzcyclone Год назад

I guess regardless of if the rockets were the wrong color or out of sequence to what was the norm. You must remember Titanic was sinking. I do not think protocol would have been the first thing on the minds of those firing those rockets. The sad fact is the SS Californian was there and was close. Could it have saved everyone? Who knows. I guess in that regards we will never know. Although unlikely it could have saved everyone even if did assist. Sure the crew of the Californian watched it and even queried it (2nd officer stated it was weird to be firing rockets at this time of night). Californian's biggest mistake was why did they not wake up the telegraphist and listen on the radio or send a message to that closest vessel (Titanic) asking if they are ok. The captain of the Californian spent the rest of his life trying to clear his name as did his son, to no avail. He was forever tainted by the actions that night. And the crew I would imagine forever had to live with the memories of they were there yet done nothing. Carpathia saved over 700 even if Californian had saved the same amount (even thought likely to have been more) that is another 700+ people that would have been alive. In all fairness though blame has to also go to Titanic owners, there was meant to be upto 64 lifeboats from memory on original plans they reduced that to the bare min for tonnage of ship( was based on tonnage not on passenger capacity) from 64 down to 12 or so. Some of those were not deployed correctly and some failed further reducing those who could be saved. The sad part is. If the officer of the watch on Titanic had not tried to avoid the iceburg but instead stayed on course and hit it dead on (naturally trying to slow down as fast as possible first). Yes the front of Titanic would have crumpled and people might have been injured or even killed. All evidence though since has said it would have stayed afloat

@ScottM436 3 месяца назад

That's messed up in that first movie. Of course, the rockets were white and not red. The movie was shot in black and white.

@CaptainJZH 3 месяца назад

Tbf the 1979, 1996 and 1997 versions also had white rockets, and those films were in color I think the reasoning for a while was that they didn't think audiences would believe that colored rockets were used because they associated those with celebratory fireworks

@ScottM436 3 месяца назад

@@CaptainJZH I agree, but my comment was a joke.

@64MDW 4 месяца назад

Don't peddle 'presentism' and the 'they should have used their cellphones' approach to history. Maritime telegraphy was in its infancy and the Californian's radio operator shut down his set per his steamship line's policy. There was no other way to communicate as rockets - number fired and color - had a variety of meanings. I'm sure the Californian would have rushed to the scene if its captain knew what was going on.

@giovannirastrelli9821 5 месяцев назад

Note how much stock footage from the 1943 version was cannibalized by the 1956 Kraft Television ANTR.

@jameerlawrencebondoc8162 10 месяцев назад

Was the Titanic 1997 the only Titanic film to not show the Californian

@CaptainJZH 10 месяцев назад

Basically, yeah. Because Cameron wanted to show Titanic as being completely isolated

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 8 месяцев назад

Well, there is a deleted scene showing the Californian that you can watch on RU-vid.

@finndowney1455 2 месяца назад

What language are they speaking in the beginning and why isn’t it English?

@CaptainJZH 2 месяца назад

German, because it's a German film

@Greenpoloboy3 Год назад

I have mixed feelings with the Californian. People need to sleep. The fireworks were not red. They tried to signal. Had they seen red fireworks for example, they'd of come. I feel its more of a hugely unfortunate fact that might than anyones fault.

@dovetonsturdee7033 Год назад

There is a common misconception that distree flares in 1912 were red. They were not. Titanic carried 36 Board of Trade Socket Signals (distress flares) and all were white with explosive heads. White flares were visible from a greater distance.

@Greenpoloboy3 Год назад

@@dovetonsturdee7033 Really, I never heard of that. What were the white ones really for?

@dovetonsturdee7033 Год назад

@@Greenpoloboy3 As I wrote. Distress flares.

@Greenpoloboy3 11 месяцев назад

@@dovetonsturdee7033 So the red was for what?

@dovetonsturdee7033 11 месяцев назад

@@Greenpoloboy3 I cannot make it any clearer. Titanic did not carry any red flares, because there was no requirement for red 'distress' flares at the time.

@davetomlinson9063 4 месяца назад

Fire those men!

@HinckleyBranchRailfan 3 месяца назад

Stanley Lord was. But I honestly think we should cut Cyril Evans and James Gibson as they were the youngest crew members aboard.

@pdhung3012 Год назад

SS Californian was too small to carry 2200 people or even 1500 people

@josephdoonan7864 Год назад

They wouldn't have had to carry them, just serve as a platform until more help arrived. That was the reasoning for the limited number of lifeboats, they were expected to be used more than once as they transfered passengers to another ship.

@pdhung3012 Год назад

@@josephdoonan7864 that’s what I intend to say. Even if the SS Californian went on time, they couldn’t carry 1500 people

@pdhung3012 Год назад

@@josephdoonan7864 the passengers are too weak to wait half of days for transferred. And there is no way a shipcwith capacity of 150 people can carry 1500 people

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Год назад

I’m sure they could’ve at least held all of them on board until other ships arrived. I know the RMS Olympic could’ve taken some of them. The Olympic even offered to carry the survivors for the Carpathia after it had picked all of them up, though the Carpathia’s crew declined it because they were afraid that a ship looking identical to the Titanic would give the survivors great anxiety.

@justinebautista1383 4 месяца назад

@@pdhung3012 Carpathia was closing in. Olympic was already closing in too. I sincerely think alot of the casualties could have been averted if Californian at least tried

@Grandizer8989 Год назад

How could these old movies showcase the Califorian but in 1997, James Cameron couldn’t due to some lawsuit?

@CaptainJZH Год назад

Not a lawsuit, he just didn't want to

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 9 месяцев назад

Well, there is one deleted scene showing the Californian in the 1997 Titanic movie.

@CaptainJZH 9 месяцев назад

@@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY this is true however it's showing Phillips cutting off the Californian's ice warning, it doesn't feature at all in the sinking

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Год назад

I guess the RMS Carpathia was the ship closest to the Titanic that had a captain and crew that were brave, caring, and generous enough to take action to save them.

Год назад

SS Californian warned Titanic crew prior to the disaster but they didn't attend the warning.

@user-zy8cy6hn6o Год назад

What a bitter and crule comment, you weren't there and you have no right to insult the men of the California who gave due warning to the titanic of icebergs. They don't have the hindsight you do of knowing the titanic sank.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Год назад

@@Commander_Koyke Yeah, though I think they might’ve had a shortage on them which would explain why they didn’t fire them every minute.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Год назад

@@Commander_Koyke Oh, they did see all of the Titanic’s distress rockets, but they still ignored them.

@DominionSorcerer Год назад

@@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY yeah, and guess what, if they had acted on the distress rockets, they still couldn't have done anything to save more people. They would have just picked up the survivors quicker than the Carpathia would have. In broad daylight when they knew what had happened it still took them 4 hours to navigate their way through the ice to reach the Titanic, they headed there as quickly as they could when they heard of it. But the Titanic didn't fire her distress rockets _as_ distress rockets. The 5 minute interval the Titanic was firing its rocket off in meant they had difficulties with navigating.

@saffronthurkettle6795 Год назад

The Californian crew were ignorant of the titanic when she was sinking yet if the situation was reversed I’m sure the crew of titanic would have been straight to help the Californian

@HinckleyBranchRailfan 3 месяца назад

They weren’t being ignorant. They were confused, the Titanic’s rockets weren’t sent up in the right timing, which made them believe they were Company signals. Wish people would stop calling the Californian and her crew bad people. I know they probably have gotten their radio operator. But TBH, the Titanic had faults too. Everyone did with some part of human errors that night