a wonderful post! many years ago i studied with Maestro Enzo DellOrefice who was Carusos accompanist & coach 1910-13 when Caruso did some of his best singing & recording..also he prepared Caruso for the role of Dick Johnson in La Fancuilla del West..the Caruso-Ruffo duet Si pel Ciel frm Otello is without doubt the greatest rendition EVER recorded..even so DellOrefice said the acoustical recordings were at best "a souvenir"! If we only had singers like this today.....
Andrés de Segurola was a spanish bass-baritone born in Valencia (Spain) in 1874 and died in Barcelona 1953. He was a close friend of Enrico Caruso. Do you remember the story about "Vecchia zimarra"? Caruso sang this aria for bass on stage while Segurola was doing playback...and nobody noticed the change!
Hard to believe that is was recorded over 100 years ago.....can you even image what they could have offered with modern recording devices.......opera has offered several outstanding baritones over the years, but Ruffo remains the measuring stick.
Fine singing and a joy. I have the Don Carlo ..Per me giunta, also Brindisi and D. Giovanni serenade, his 76 yrs produced many of the best music, he also was fortunate to be on stage with the best.!
@orovalleydude Del Monaco said that 2 times early in his career his voice was almost destroyed by people trying to get him to sing lighter. I think he started uncovering a bit too high later on, but he was still amazing. And the car accident affected him as well.
I like this discussion. My teacher used to say about the post belcanto singers, i.e. those after the golden age, who did not sing in the mask, and still don't, that they don't have a 'word'.
@MyPedrocastro Your information about President De la Huerta as a voice teacher is truly amazing. We know him as a very important figure in the Mexican revolution.
also segurola was the teacher on hollywood of antonio aguilar who wanted to sucedeed in opera.and he perfomed in a movie with grace moore in which they sing the sextet from lucia!he wasnt a mardones but made a good career.
Andrés de Segurola at the age of 66 years was student of the Mexican ex president Adolfo de la Huerta in Los Ángeles. He recognized in De la Huerta a great teacher, who helped singers that lost their voices to recover them, and also teach them to change the tesiture of their vocal expression. De la Huerta was one of the geatest bel canto teachers of his time. He was a politician, a revolutionary, Minister of Finance and also a provisional president, who made Pancho Villa to surrender.
@MrCafiero In terms of our natural design, speaking & singing are of the same family. The subconscious natural syncronicity of the physical components that make up speech, when used in the same manner in singing will result in true natural effortless and very beautiful singing. Yes of course, clarity of word and true expression of the composition are vital. McCormack is a perfect example of a true Bel Canto singer especially at the start of his career before the smoking eroded his voice.
@AmhranaiAlainn WHAT? That is nonsense. Melocchi was a stickler for the vowels and words. The sound cannot be "unnatural" when it is produced by everything that is natural; i.e., the body.
Maybe Ruffos voice didnt last 50 yrs like did Battistinis but if he hadnt given it his all we would never have been able to hear these glorious sounds! The same can be said for many famous singers--most of us could name at least several!
@MrCafiero What I give is my opinion but based on fact from the traditional Professori. Of course, words are made up of vowels and consonants I did not state the opposite. But vowel colour which is unique to everyone is only true when the word is being 'said' not produced. When you speak you say words - it is the exact same in singing. Of course you must add expression and follow the line of the story that the composer has intended. Vowel balance and true colour are by products of being true.
THE VOWELS ARE FORMULATED IN THE BACK OF THE THROAT. THE CONSONENTS ARE FORMULATED IN THE FRONT OF THE MOUTH. THERE ARE 5 ITALIAN VOWELS .AH EH EE OH OO. ALL THE REST ARE CONSONENTS, CREATED WITH THE TONGUE ,TEETH,USE OF HARD PALLET. IN SINGING THE VOWELS ARE DOMINANT BECAUSE OF THE LEGATO,HOLDING THE NOTE. THE VOWELS ARE FORMULATED FIRST, THAN THE CONSONANTS. IT OCCURS SO FAST THAT IT APPEARS TO HAPPEN TOGETHER. IN SPEAKING THE CONSONANTS ARE DOMINANT BECAUSE LESS LEGATO. RUFFO DID DIRECT HIS RESONANCE INTO HIS CHEST THROUGH MOST OF HIS RANGE, FOR THE BARITONE SOUND. IAN KAYE
There is no mask. There is chiaroscuro. If the vowels are clear with "squillante" it is automatically in "the mask". But you cannot put sound in some made up object.
@AmhranaiAlainn You cannot have a discussion when you don't have your facts straight and instead want to give nothing, but your opinion on things. Words are made up of vowels and consonants. And in singing the vowel balance is crucial. Melocchi was adamant about clear vowels. And you clearly don't know that.
I think it is way too hard to speculate. He went through the war, being in prison and so on. It was probably something he could of worked out, but maybe he did not want to. Maybe he was tired. Who knows? But for 30 years he dominated.
@orovalleydude Del Monaco was in trouble from the start as he sang from the sound of his voice and in an unnatural way, as did Corelli. For them it was all about producing sound not saying words. Ruffo and De Segurola used their voices naturally as did Caruso. In Caruso's case he got off to a bad start with instruction under Vergine, who didn't teach Bel Canto knowledge and was a charlatan. It was through his wife and conductor Vincenzo Lombardi that he was guided back to using the spoken word.
diversamente da quanto detto sotto, i critici (quelli che conoscono la musica e la tecnica) non rimproverano a Tittaruffo proprio niente a livello vocale, perchè era una voce eccezionale e pertanto fuori da ogni confronto...semmai i suoi epigoni che con voci meno dotate e carenti di tecnica (Titta faceva vocalizzi da autentico belcantista) volevano imitarne i suoni che poi risultavano muggiti (secondo la terminologia usata dal Celletti), ma ciò vale anche per Caruso e Callas
@AmhranaiAlainn Singing has no more to do with speaking than sprinting has to do with walking. They use some the same muscles, but nowhere close to the same way, intensity or skill. Singing should be clear with the vowels which give you the words, but there is much, much more involved than when you speak.
@MrCafiero I wasn't looking for an argument by the way or a knowledge oneupmanship contest, just healthy discussion. So, I'll move on. But just one last simmering thought: God made our voices to say words, not to produce noise.
fordy, where in the world do you get tenor and baritone out of these two? geez... are you the kind that thinks hampson, diskau and hvorovstostovsky resemble a baritone voice??? some people...
@MrCafiero .. contd .. There is of course more demand put on the voice when one sings, but the unique vocal signature must remain the same. The voice is a finely balanced instrument and once a singer's mind perceives singing to be something separate from speaking the end result will be a loss of vocal freedom. Corelli could not sing naturally and effortlessly because he was always preoccupied with the physics of the voice. McCormack 'spoke' when he sang resulting in effortless and fine singing.
.. part2... To continue, true singing i.e. Bel Canto singing which has complete vocal freedom at its core is always about the business of 'saying' words and not about tone production. McCormack, Vallin, Caruso, Stracciari, Bjorling, Tetrazzini, Sayao to name a few, exhibited their true vocal signature when they sung. You can hear them speak when they sing. Almost everyone since 1960 in the opera world has sung in an unnatural manner and rarely revealed their own vocal freedom.
@MrCafiero What I say is true. Singing is not about one's voice but about how one uses it. When you use your voice in exactly the same manner when you sing as you do when you speak, without effort, you have vocal freedom. The singers I mentioned never had vocal freedom. Melocchi taught sound production, not singing. Sabatini would be a better example of a true singing teacher.
accompagnamento a parte se Titta avesse fatto i due ruoli creo sarebbe stato meglio :-) Aveva doti incredibili e gli sarebbe bastato giocare sul timbro ---
I beg to differ sir. First off - everyone already carries vocal freedom inside as long as they do not have a defect in their voice. When they use their voice correctly when speaking they show their innate vocal freedom and more importantly their own unique vocal signature. When one perceives the singing and speaking voice as two separate voices the result will always be the loss of their own natural true vocal signature and vocal freedom can never be attained no matter how facile the voice.
@MrCafiero ...contd... How can you be true in singing? By singing the way God wanted you to sing - naturally as you speak. When you speak you use the voice naturally and without any thought to the use of the voice other than wanting to be clear and meaningful. Natural (Bel Canto) singing is exactly the same - it is an extension of speaking. Of course singing asks more from the voice but only in terms of the level of expression and commitment to the composer. Melocchi did not teach Bel Canto.
@AmhranaiAlainn WHAT? To USE your VOICE you have to have it produced well. Otherwise you are using something not good. Singing has NOTHING to do with speaking. Just as walking has nothing to do with running and jumping hurdles. You have no clue what vocal freedom is.
