@@sixfromtokyo Toji's downplay mainly comes from Megumi's statement of Toji being 3F Sukuna level but not only was Toji not fighting Megumi as brutally as he fought Dagon he was instinctively suppressing himself because his instincts were making him remember that he was fighting his own son. As for Toji's battle against Pre Awakened Gojo, even if Toji hadn't tired Gojo out Gojo would have lost because Blue was just not fast enough, even Awakened Gojo didn't rely on Blue and Red. Toji's durability is also crazy, Maki's incomplete Heavenly Restriction gave her more durability and better resistance to Jogo's flames than Nanami and Naobito so Toji's is just way better. Lightning446 translation helps Toji a lot and puts him where he should be.
@@sixfromtokyo If Jogo had died to Toji I doubt Sukuna would have emerged even if Nanako and Mimiko had fed him a finger or 2, a great extent of the arc If not whole story could have changed because of this
@@fardin_king6817 with domain expansions there is no way Toji manages to win, he would need to end the fight before that and lets be real, that is not going to happen, Jogo is not that weak.
You should've used Jogo's "Nah I'd win" for the thumbnail. Toji wins low - mid diff, he'd overwhelm Jogo with his ferocity alone. If Toji uses his glock its low diff
Jogo being known as "a glass cannon" is kinda ridiculous since he's able to self regenerate and he's taken beating from both gojo & Sukuna. He was getting tossed around by both. Punches, kicks, etc and he kept getting up and attacking. And we know Gojos hits are HARD. Yuta & Hakari themselves stated that they had to puke after receiving one punch from Gojo
@@assarlannerborn9342 regeneration is not the same as durability. It’s not like he has the best regeneration in the verse. It’s just a hit higher than others and won’t matter if Toji is going for the kill. To be honest, the reason why he even lasted that long was because sukuna wasn’t trying to kill him until the end and was just trying to see if he could touch him like he said he would. Same with Gojo who was using jogo as a lesson for yuji. Since that’s the case you can argue they were pulling their punches in order for the fight to go on longer.
As the strongest curse, Jogoat fought the fraud the child support evader, he summoned maximum meteor, Toji shrunk back in fear then Jogoat said:”Stand proud Toji you are strong”
I think they made jogo seem more impressive in the anime due to him catching Noabito in the middle of his projection sorcery, to the point where it seems Naobito breaking his own techniques rule in trying to avoid it
Its naobito CT weakness, he cant change the projection mid-air so the moment jogo block his way with aoe attack, he realise he already fuck up and stop trying.
@asepirmawan3256 yeah, it was just my interpretation that they were trying to make Jogo look more impressive in the anime regarding what they started speaking on around the 5min mark on what they had in the manga vs anime
That feat wasn’t that cool. If I saw a guy jumping around in straight lines with 1 arm it’s obvious he has to punch me I’d shoot fire in between us too. Even chisaki from my hero told deku the downfall of moving like that it’s easy to predict
Nah, Toji felt Jogo's presence and knew he wasn't built for that so he took his son and ran and proceeded to fight his son to make it seem he ain't ducking 🫠
What are u dumb His instinct is moving towards the strongest, even if Sukuna is there, he will turn towards him because he is fighting with his instinct, not with his mind go read the manga cuz u just talking
JOGOAT's feats: He's Him He has the 3 eyes He is fast Tiktok A steaming hot honeybun. Toji's feats: Beats up teenagers (including his own son) Is a deadbeat Walks in other peoples domain without their permission Is homeless man. Yea Jogoat got this.
My man toji had the guts to take himself out cuz no one else could since number one and two strongest were unavailable, while jogo had to rely on number one to do that
Sukuna: Letting Jogo breathe because he already knows he’s strong enough. Toji: Mercilessly beating him and giving him no room to breathe because he likes to torment curses through brute strength rather than domination.
i feel like it’s pretty clear just by how greg writes the characters that he interprets toji as stronger, like we literally have maki giving toji higher and higher scaling, in real time, even though he’s been dead for almost a decade 🤣
Because jogo is the goat he just had a bad luck on being in the same era where both sukuna and gojo are both in if he was in another era he would probably be considered a mini king of curses
13:10 Toji will still be affected by the elemental effect like he was affected by Dagons water So he will feel Jogos heat/Lava Not saying he would die but he’s not getting 0 damage from the domain Jogo would also be able to use non-surehit attacks and be buffed physically while in the domain
@@dragonmaster3207 wdym no....after soo many feats in the manga...of maki who is now toji adjacent who literally threw...15 sukuna around and forced him to retreat and humiliating curse naoya....who is much faster than jogo and almost as durable as hanami....there is no way u can make any argument that jogo is anywhere relative to toji.....
@@oreki8707Maki didnt get any stat buff to her 2nd awakening she simply started utilizing her senses to its full capability basically amounting to a form of precog speed wise shes still way below noaya with speed.
@@ye7625 doesn't matter....bro...after the precog bugg....which makes her equal to toji... atleast stats wise....make her able to literally run on air and dogwalk curse naoya....who should be at the very least....2 degrees of magnitude above jogo in terms of speed, durability
i think people forget toji can’t sense cursed energy so he didn’t even know jogo was coming. he just recognized megumi was the strongest in the room and decided to molly wop him one on one outside. toji would put up a crazy fight and could for sure win but i think jogoat pulls through
Toji vs. Jogo in his Shibuya State would've been a 50/50, but a prepared Toji with the Inverted Spear would've low-mid diffed Jogo. He's primarily an assassin before being a frontliner.
Toji can sense Cursed Energy and more(if you've read the manga). Naobito also didn't know Jogo was coming even if you assume a Toji can't sense CE what about the grade 1 sorcerers. Toji didn't meet Jogo simply because of the plot
@@TactlessGuydefinitely. Especially with the anime. A guy who is running with no thoughts has to attack a guy who's presence melts buildings.. definitely mid-high diff as a reincarnation. Low-mid eith HI arc.
I've never really understood the jogo is "low durability" the dude literally survived being decapitated in the gojo fight, and during the sakuna is constantly being turned into sashimi and just keeps going. He may be low defense but as far as hp goes he does just fine. I still think he loses, his best shot would probably be to make the ground lava and submerge himself in it and just try and make it an attrition fight where he just relies on ambient damage. Even assuming Toji's curse resistance is 30 times maki's jogo was still able to do severe hospitlizing damage too maki with essentially a quarter second pinky flick. His main problem is definitely just getting blitzed through Toji's speed really is comical. Ultimately assuming jogo gets to react too the fight starting I'll give him 35% against an unarmed Toji, 10% with playful cloud, 0% with the anti-technique dagger, -200% with the soul cutting sword(it gets rid of jogo's healing).
Which makes it completely blow up in the worst way when you consider the fact that Toji would've been there had he not got Megumi from the tired and depleted squad of sorcerers lol That would've been a great fight and flattering for Jogo though, anyway, and despite the loss
@@asdergold1even then it makes no sense considering awakened maki got ridiculed after jumping meguna w yujis help when it was stated he’s around 10% of his power aka 2 finger meguna while a 15 finger sukuna praised jogo saying he’s much stronger than anyone he’s fought in centuries 😭
@@ranbirb5725 the 10% statement is most reasonably interpreted as his slashing attacks since he says that the body (megumi) is holding him back when he's trying to hurt his friends, and he responds to that information by using dismantle on the ground (not on megumi's friends so therefore not nerfed), context matters, also if it was truly 10% of all physical stats then you would have maki relative to a 1.5 finger sukuna while toji is at the very very least 3 fingers based on megumi's statement, and maki is equal to toji, which don't make sense
Dude, I've had to debate more than a million people and you're going to make it worse. These Toji fans are insane you included if you think he can win. Believing that Toji is faster than Naobito is solely headcanon when Maki outsmarted Naoya (who is not confirmed to be faster) rather than blitzing him out of 24 frames. There's a myriad of other arguments including that Jogo hit Naobito OUT of his 24 frames while Maki adapted to the 24 frames. She didn't beat Naoya through speed she was just smarter. Even if Toji was faster by the amount you like to think he is, that's not enough. Jogo's insane area coverage and regeneration beats Toji in the long run. You cannot convince me Toji could dodge the way Sukuna could, you're absurdly biased if you think he's even close to 15f.
real, cursed naoya is shown faster than maki. She only increased her perception to travel speed. The guy was circling around her. In their first fight she needed a plan to even hit him. I see Toji at best comparable to Naobito but nothing too convincing to put him over.
No, maki did not out smart naoya...he baited him to attack and was fast enough to not only react but count his 24 frames, keep in mind this maki was not at toji's level. When naoya comes back as a curse, he is straight up faster and after getting the power up and learning to utilise heavenly restriction at its fullest effect, maki straight up dog walks that naoya...so yes toji in terms of speed and reaction time is way beyonf naobito...this is also completely disregarding the fact the naoya himself claimed toji can straight up cook the zenin clan by himself including naobito. Give toji playful cloud and he dominates jogo.
@@souvikbose8282 Do you know what counting the 24 frames is? Outsmarting. That's the point. She wasn't frozen due to obeying the 24 frames rule, hence she outsmarted him. She didn't just go supersaiyan and go break through it. Naoya never said "INCLUDING NAOBITO!!!" and that's a terrible statement not backed by anything. Toji is a myth in the Zenin family of couse Naoya would have a ridiculous idea of him. If you want to use unbacked statements then Toji is relative to 3f Sukuna because Megumi said so.
@@firepillow2092curse resistance maki with heavenly restrictions was able to survive and sustain less damage than grade 1 sorcerer who got killed on spot
@@mariano8085 no he doesn’t Toji is faster and stronger. Jogo only takes Destructive capabilities abillities and experience. Toji has way too many weapons that hard counters and can’t be sensed because of him having no CE AT ALL
The JJK community does not understand Jogo. Toji was hit by a newly awakened Gojos red, blocked it with inverted spear, and was still blown back and was bleeding from his head. Jogo was hit with an adult Gojo red, NO BLOCK, that cleared a forest, and was running afterwards.
Do you disagree Gojo was holding back on Jogo and toying with him? he didn't even take his blindfold off. He also taunted Jogo to get him to bring out Domain just to teach it to Yuji. Highly doubt Jogo could just tank a FP red I mean actually we know he didn't Gojo didn't even use the incantations on it or anything.
I mean yea, he was likely holding back, but we saw the damage the red dealt. It CLEARED a huge portion of that forest. The red used on Toji barely blew up a house. @@sixfromtokyo
You people are caping hard. Toji faster than Naobito? Maki couldnt keep up with Naoya. Also, Jogo might be less sturdy than Nanami but he survived Gojo's red and Sukuna trashing.
He survived Gojo's red because it was in a forest. Imagine if it sent him flying through several concrete buildings like it did Toji. The damage would've been much worse
@@shepardice3775Comparing adult Gojo to kid Gojo doesn't make sense at all. Adult Gojo would one-shor Toji. Toji is comparable to Maki, who struggled against a 15 finger Sukuna who wasn't even at 10%.
@@voidtempering8700 Maki didn't struggle in the least bit against Sukuna in that fight what are you talking about lmao. She got hit once with Sukuna putting his whole back into it with the output he had, and she ate it. She didn't attempt to use her sword. You're also downplaying Sukuna's strength in that chapter. He tells us himself it's fluctuating and it's strongest when he was trying to hurt them. He should've been able to dodge and block much better than at 10%
@@shepardice3775its the oposite, he said that his output is getting lower the more he hurts them because of megumi , its not getting stronger . They were strugling , they were both attacking at the same time and sukuna was just blocking maki with one hand and yuji with the other. And you think that sukuna wouldve still played with them if maki had the sword? He wouldnt be so reckless and let maki cut him with a sword that damages his soul
@aokiji3347 he literally had been planing his attack on gojo for a while had gojo up for like 3 days and a broken ass spear that ignores infinity and still couldn't kill him. Not to mention toji was a grown adult gojo was still a teenager. Gojo is so expentionallly stronger than he was in the flash back it's not even funny besides obviously gaining hollow purple a domain expansion and mastering RCT so he can keep up infinity forever. He literally was shown to be improving his base infinity techniques as short as a year later as he was developing multiple ways for it to activate automatically even against poison.
No, Toji beats any of the Disaster Curses. He made light work of Dagon in his own domain with no difficulty at all, and Jogo was said to be a tier above Dagon, so imagine how dirty Toji would do Jogo? Toji is physically stronger, more durable, faster, and way more skilled.
@@saiyanobe23g6okay, well...while I do agree on toji stomping all of the disaster curses, even at the same time, the domain of Dagon was incredibly weakened by Megumins domain. The sure hit effect would have made the battle somewhat more difficult.
@@rick7122 Jogo obviously wins being the strongest disaster curse but Mahito had more potential than him, he was getting stronger and stronger by the day.
I still gotta stand with my goat Jogoat. Kenjaku does compare him to 8 or 9 finger Sukuna but that is being generous. But we know he probably still is above 3 fingers Sukuna. When Gojo firsts meets Jogo he comments that he’s stronger than the current Sukuna. This all happened after the detention center. So I think 5-6 is a fair assessment. Dagon comments that Naobito might be faster than Jogo. But Naobito is put 2nd in speed behind adult Gojo (faster than Yuki & Yuta)? This would mean not all projection sorcery is equal since that makes him faster than Naoya. Megumi had seen Toji fight Dagon he fought Toji and still compared him to 3 finger Sukuna. And Toji was automatically targeting the strongest in the area. It’s not like he knew Megumi was his son until the end of the fight anyways. And I think Jogo’s durability gets downplayed. It would take 5 black flashes and a playful cloud strike to kill Jogo. But I think Yuji’s black flashes are stronger than any blows Toji could throw out. We also see Jogo take several blows from Sukuna and Gojo of all people and keep moving. Given that the multiplier of black flash is to the power of 2.5. It strikes me as no surprise that strikes from Yuji even back then are fatal to most. You can create some composite Toji Zenin in a vacuum with soul split katana and inverted spear of heaven. But I’m not really looking to do that just Toji in the moment of the Shibuya incident. Just hands and a broken playful cloud I’m not giving it to Toji or acting like this is a one sided wash. I could bring up some other things besides all this but I feel my point is clear.
Toji is almost invincible for him nothing matters and we've not seen toji in his fullest... Like he was just playing with dagon and meg where he could've just one shoted them...if this fight happens Jogo's gonna get his ass beat up by another person who is without curse energy... He'll be in self doubt ;)
@@madhavarora1952JoGOAT is always invincible for him nothing matters and we've not seen joGOAT in the fullest... Like he was just playing with Gojo and Sukuna where he could've one shifted them... Toji's gonna get his ass beat by another person who is with cursed energy... He'll be in self doubt ;)
I got Jogo. Toji being able to solo the clan doesn’t make him faster than Naobito. Maki did it, and she was very clearly slower than Naoya. Her being physically equal to Toji at this point doesn’t hurt either. I got Toji higher on my rankings, but it’s just a bad match up for Toji. He’s faster, and he can keep great range. But it’s all the little details that win Jogo the fight. If he opens his domain, the curse dies. No curse means no “invisibility” and oc just one tool, which I assume would be the katana. If he does step in the domain, Jogo is definitely faster with even stronger attacks. He can just use the CE from the tool to make sure the sure hits hit. A sure hit domain amped meteor? Crazy. Sure he could drop the weapon and he’s immune to sure hits and he’s invisible, but now he can’t hurt Jogo. If he doesn’t enter the domain, Jogo just calls it off, survives with domain amp until his CT comes back, and then just wins by keeping his range and setting up volcanoes all over the area, spamming fire blasts, armies of exploding shikigami, lava pool and giant lava constructs. Like I said, Toji is stronger, it’s just a bad match up
Awakened Maki could dodge curse Naoya MID AIR which was much faster than human Naoya. She was talking about how now (chapter 197) she understands what could Toji perceive " things only I can see ... things only he could see...". Toji is not only faster, he is much more faster that Jogo wouldn't even be able to see him properly and cannot perceive him. Toji doesnt even need his curse back pack with the ISOH. If Jogo uses his DE Toji can just leave the domain in the blink of an eye (also he can leave and enter as he pleases), Jogo wouldn't even notice him and would be confused why he cannot perceive Toji. The DE is vulnerable to outside attacks, Toji could literally smash it. In Shibuya Edo Toji had the playfoul cloud which the only special cursed tool not imbued with CT, he stays invisible. So using a DE wouldn't be very effective and you need to wait for CT to come back. Domain amplification is only effective to neutralize any opposing cursed technique or domain expansion they come into contact with. Jogo wouldn't survive the raw physical strength+the special grade cursed tool "Playfoul Cloud". Dagon outside his domain didnt budge from Nanami's full power hit and Nanami was compared to Yuji in term of striking power in the mange during Shibuya. And Yuji strikes would damage Hanami. Jogo in the other hand is stated to be way less tanky than Hanami (supplementary info 4). Toji with playfoul cloud will one shot Jogo just like he effortlessly killed Dagon. If Jogo has any info on Toji assassination skills then maybe he could in advance build his defense by making a pool of lava around him and literally swim in it with bugs, otherwise just from the first encounter Jogo gets one shotted and dominated by pure raw speed, strength and brutality. As Toji likes to overkill his opponents (plot armor saved Gojo ofc).
@@Iskender46teke I’m not reading that bro. I saw the first few sentences. U can see she jumped off Naoya. Her awakening was a mental buff. Doesn’t increase physical stats at all. The Zenin clan even said she was like Toji
@@tarikmccuin6306you don't even understand how the domain amp works and think he can survive with that. Just read what I wrote and you will understand how your point is poorly judged.
@@seksaouiabderraouf2531 why does that even matter? Not having range dosent mean shit, sukuna pure physical stats was boxing down jogo without his technique and low diff as well, Toji and maki are near relative to a 15 finger sukuna in physical stats
The feats you use to scale Toji are so incredibly vague and not concrete, can’t take it seriously. You essentially just asserted Toji is stronger than Jogo without evidence and made weird inferences about character stats based on things like one character being afraid of another. For example, you argue that Toji is faster than Naobito simply because one character said that Zenin clans existence was at Toji whim and because Maki whipped out the Zenin clan - that isn’t “ tons of evidence “ for Toji being faster than Naobito - let’s be fr here bro… It doesn’t logically follow that just because Toji is a stronger fighter on the whole, or that Maki was able to defeat the Zenin clan, that Toji is faster than Naobito. Speed is a specific stat - ironically, jogo killing naobito despite being slower is evidence that Toji doesn’t need to be faster than Naobito in order to be way stronger than him, so I’m not even sure why you’d try to infer that Toji is faster from those weak premises I feel like y’all aren’t even listening to yourself speak, and this is just bad example of the logic used in scaling here. You guys are also cherry picking which statements you acknowledge as valid. JJK fans are actually the worst power scalers.
Not cooking, toji isnt faster than naobito, yes he could solo the zenin clan but that doesnt prove anything, its been shown countless times you dont need to be faster than a projection sorcery user to beat them, understanding of the technique and reading ability why toji demolishes them not speed. Invert spear of heaven isnt stoping jogos attacks, at most theyd reduce damage but ultimately inverted spear is too small to stop all of jogos huge aoe attacks. Tojis toughness and inverted spear of heaven would help him last but he cant do anything in regards to getting passed jogos sheer fire power
Finally someone who understands logic lmao Dude makes 2000000 unsupported inferences based off weak ass premises in this video. Jogo ranged attacks and AoE are literal nightmares for toji, like it’s one of his worst match ups. Tactics and strategy matter and fans always ignore them whenever they powerscale. Jogo kills toji 9/10 fights, and the only case Toji wins is if they somehow start the fight standing right next to each other and toji has a sword.
@@dream1430 at the same time Jogo couldn’t keep up with a sukuna who was purely jus using his physical stats until the end of the fight, while a maki who is relative to Toji could not only keep up but even land blows, Toji would speed blitz jogo, jogo could barely perceive sukuna, and there’s no reason to believe sukuna was trying harder in the jogo fight since he had his cursed energy and technique, against maki and Yuji he had only his physicality, to some extent he had to have tried harder against maki then Jogo
In all reality y’all glazed Toji mad hard this vid underrated Jogo Durability he survived 4 enhanced blue punches and a point blank red from Gojo still pulled out a domain…Toji still wins but not as easy as y’all say…the meatriding is actually insane
Honestly the only thing they underestimated was the use of domain. It still amplifies Jogos techniques and there is the insane heat to deal with as a bonus. Even without the sure hit effect its still helpful
@@PyroniumZ nah I still feel everyone underestimates Jogos durability…like I said he took 4 serious blue enhanced punches from Gojo(just 1 unserious made Yuta and Hakari vomit) also tanked a red… and honestly who in the series besides the top 3 in the verse and Hanami couldve tanked 5 black flashes from Itadori and a playful cloud strike from Todo? It wasn’t to be a nerf to Jogos durability but a testimony to Hanamis Durability
@@Lameass-z2r I mean that is true but in this case any attack would still damage him seriously because Toji>the Yuji that fought Hanami. Against the high-top tiers he is still a glass cannon. Also i dont know about Gojo being that serious since he was kinda playing with him and goofing around, trying to show Yuji stuff. His durability isnt the worst but against people like Toji its not enough. Some people also forget how broken black flash is, even from that specific Yuji, Jogo not surviving 5 of those and Todos attacks doesnt mean he is frail
@@PyroniumZ yeah I still give the win to Toji but they make it seem like such a landslide but Jogo has moved they didn’t mention such as being able to use sonic waves to attack with those mosquito bombs I just feel like they came into this video not really trying to debate or discuss but strictly to meatride
Toji tanked red made with the intent to kill. Gojo was holding back against Jogo and was only trying to capture him. Gojo was also trying to keep him alive long enough so he uses DE because he wanted Yuji to see it.
Me watching Jogo casually decimate a whole ass city block, straight up get compared to a special grade sorcerer, and fight the strongest of sorcerers with bs abilities since day 1.😫
Toji the man who nearly ended Gojo even if he was far less experienced he was still very powerful in his own right (and would likely still beat Jogo back then with not too much effort) vs Jogo who got absolutely no diffed by Gojo also keep in mind Toji is still relevant in power/effort needed in the recent chapters since Gojo's mind immediately went to Toji against Sakuna when thinking about the last time he was pushed
Dude the gojo toji fought was specifically weakened and bassicly had a curse tool that negates CT which he pulled out and surprised gojo and when he fought sukana his life was being push back against the wall which reminded him that old time his life was push back against the wall against toji it reminded him of the situation he found himself in not toji power
@@fork-man he specifically was excited and said when was the time I was pushed this far in a fight or something along those lines..the fact he is reminded of Toji is respect in its own right towards that individuals capabilities
i feel like there is a huge difference between a no domain expansion fight and one where Jogo can expand the domain and Toji is going to be forced to take all the amplified attacks, there is no posible counter for Toji inside a domain
I don't know where the notion of Jogo being a Glass Cannon came from, if I had to guess it's probably that statement that Jogo would die from the same Black Flashes Hanami took head on. But just because he's less durable than Hanami doesn't mean he's a Glass Cannon. He took punches from Gojo, Red from Gojo and survived Sukuna for a bit. That doesn't seem to me like a Glass Cannon character he's just a Cannon(And maybe Glass Cannon when compared to a Tank like Hanami).
jogo is less durable then dagan who toji stomped with no effort most jjk fans have a problem with accepting jogo is super strong but hes not handling toji at all
Sukuna quite literally bullied him and ripped off his jaw casually. Gojo was obviously holding back in that Red since he wanted to interrogate Jogo, plus the fact that Red did more damage to a Sukuna who ate the equivalent of 20 fking fingers, so it's pretty obvious that if Gojo wanted, he would have just vaporized Jogo there. So yeah, he doesn't scale to them at all, unless he uses Maximum Meteor, but that shit is slow af.
@@sirsirrisris I never said he'd win, I'm just saying that calling Jogo a 'Glass Cannon' isn't very appropriate when he took hits from the two strongest characters in the series and survived.
@@jx8903 Gojo pulling his punches might be very likely, but do you know another time Gojo likely held his punches? [MANGA SPOILERS, proceed at your own risk] Kusakabe asked if anyone knows how it feels to be hit by Gojo and both Hakari and Yuta looked like they were recalling painful memory and both said that they puked. That's one Special Grade Sorcerer(And Hakari who may or may not be up there) there that said he puked from a punch by Gojo who obviously wasn't going for the kill so he held back. Jogo took a lot of these punches and didn't look like he accumulated a lot of damage.
@@anontheweeb87 Man, what?, first of all, same problem, Gojo was clearly holding back and playing around (he even mock Jogo and calles him weak), second, those punches Kusakabe was talking about were amped by Blue, so they weren't just normal standart punches.
Mahito is the only guy that uses "Soul scaling". That thing is only relevant against Mahito because his attacks target your soul. The more powerful your soul is, the more attacks you can take from mahito. Itadori at 10% soul is not a 10% strength, durability, speed, etc. Furthermore, even if soul was an amp, did you choose to ignore Gojo saying Jogo is stronger than current 3 finger sukuna? There's absolutely no evidence Toji is as fast as Naobito. Maki defeated Naoya and the rest of the Zenin clan despite being drastically slower than Naoya at the time. She just figured out how his CT worked, faked an opening, and attacked at the spot where she new Naoya would be. Dagon also clapped Naobito despite being way slower than him. The idea that being stronger than Naobito in a 1v1 fight automatically means you scale to his movement speed is silly. I don't know where the idea that Jogo is a glass cannon comes from. Do you know about other characters that are not Hanami who could have tanked the same attacks that Hanami got hit with? He's less durable than Hanami so he's automatically weak? Did you not see him tank Red from adult Gojo? The same attack he was planning to use to one shot Mahogara? I'm not arguing about the outcome, but some of the points here are weak.
Gojo when fighting toji was incredibly impressed with his speed and megumi was straight up flabbergasted by it if toji was not faster than him there reactions would make literally zero sense there ct isn’t a secret nor is naobito existence gojo and megumi would both know about him and would not be so surprised by how quick he was if they literally knew people quicker than him I mean for gods sake maki who literally knows and was fighting with naobito was caught off guard by how quick and strong toji was 😂 also just use your brain you think the author would make a character who’s entire power is being quick and strong with the downside of no abilities not insanely fast compared to almost anyone else with the exception of probably sukuna and gojo no need to be disingenuous
@@little_error295 gojo being impressed by Toji's speed proves what exactly? He said 3rd year mei mei was strong and he proclaimed he and geto (who was grade 1 at the time) were the strongest. Meanwhile adult gojo calls Jogo is weak. Is teen mei mei stronger than Jogo or what? Does grade 1 geto solo special grade Yuki or what? Maki was caught off guard by toji? Did you not see her and nanami say they couldn't see Naobito move? Also, learn to use punctuation and estructure paragraphs.
@@guesswho8556 because he already knows about naobito and the zenin technique if Toji was slower there would be nothing to be surprised about and trying to tell someone about punctuation when you can’t spell structure correctly is crazy 😂 you clown
He launched the weakest red he could do and Jogo "tanked" it and was blasted away. If he wanted Gojo would one shot Jogo if he just puts more output into his red. Gojo was simply toying with Jogo and didnt want to kill him because he was curious and wanted to interogate him. The red he used against Toji which was blocked by the ISOH and Toji's basically superhuman body was meant to kill him, not to toy with him. Same thing for Maho, he can choose if he wants to use 10 percent or 100. So yeah Jogo isnt durable at all, meaning few strikes from playfoul cloud will one shot him even than Dagon. Awakened Maki who finally could perceive things like Toji (in chapter 197) could dodge curse Naoya mid air and Naoya couldnt catch Maki and was losing nerves. Making Toji faster or as fast as curse Naoya who was much faster than his human self.
Probably just relevancy bias, but after seeing Jogo vs Sukuna, Jogo's AP seems very overwhelming and I'm not sure if Toji would really be able to handle that.
Ehh. He'd definitely be able too. We've seen that the stronger someone is the better they resist his heat. So indirect heat and fumes can't kill him, and his attacks are simply too slow. If they *hit* yeah Toji would be fucked up badly, especially with no rct.
Toji would probably be pretty hurt at one attack. But that’s assuming Jogo can land that attack since his speed is insane and besides the Jogo blitz against 3 injured sorcerers(Nahobito is stated to lose a significant amount of speed being one armed in the manga) I don’t think he’s landing a hit on him without getting playful cloud shoved up his ass. Only chance he has is domain expansion, the sure hit would probably but Toji down but can’t say with 100% certainty
@@nunyabusiness8000 Toji wouldnt be that hurt firstt of all and 2nd of all since toji has 0 curse energy sure hit effect of domains do not affect him as he can freely move throught them if he so chooses. I am guessing you havent read the manga if you dont know that
Bruh why do people always say Toji is faster than Naobito. Theres literally no solid evidence to back that up, and actually more to the contrary. Edit: anyways I don't feel like arguing further because it doesn't end and I've had this argument like 5 times this week. I hope at least some people can see that this is not a clear cut issue, and it can be easily interpreted in different ways by different people. This is one where it's probably better to use "lowballed estimates" and "highballed estimates"
They literally say Toji could just wipe out the Zenin clan if he wanted and Maki went ahead and did it when she wasn't even fully Toji level. It's also stated in the fanbook by Gege that Toji would have been made clan head instead of Naobito if it wasn't for the fact he couldn't fight curses without a cursed tool.
When Maki fought Naoya, she showed that she could actually _see_ his projection sorcery, and she was fast enough to catch him out during it. When she fought against him as a curse she beat him in a foot race to reach Noritoshi. If she can do that and we know that Toji at any point could've wiped the Zenin clan, he would have to be able to catch Naobito to do it lol
Didn't you watch the last episode where Toji stomped Dagon? Toji's speed is not even comparable to Naobito's. He was so fast and powerful that the calamar couldn't do anything against HIM
@darkblazer-2178 nah I read the manga where they were both faster than Dagon, but even with one arm Naobito was able to easily speed behind Dagon to kick him into toji
Wouldn’t the heat of Jogo domain one shot Toji even sorcerers would get one shot by the passive heat of his domain it doesn’t target anything it’s just heat.
No. If pre-awakened Maki, injured, could survive the burns from Jogo I don't think the passive heat from his domain would be enough to seriously injure Toji.
@@walaba8565 Gojo didn't have his hand on Yuji or anything at that moment and to anyone's knowledge it doesn't seem like Gojo can spread infinity onto other people and protect them. Yuji is known to be very physically tough naturally so know I don't think Gojo was protecting him.
@@sixfromtokyo Being physically tough isn't even close to enough. It's actually absurd if you think season 1 Yuji could've survived Jogo's domain. Gojo doesn't need to spread infinity, it's an AOE around him and Yuji was near him. Gojo is a bad mentor but he's not bad enough to let his student enter a special grade's domain unprotected.
Idk bro, if I powerscale the last anime episode I can’t even conceive Toji not getting stomped. Obviously I know manga is the right canon but holy fuck they made Jogo look insane
Jogo was just spamming his attacks it all looked very flashy and cool but he still didn't land any hits on Sukuna or anything so it's nothing too too impressive to contradict what was previously shown or what will be shown in the future. Best we know now is Jogo can get a bit more creative with how he uses his CT and I guess his destruction can cover a wider area but Sukuna was also playing around letting him go all out trying to have fun.
That's just animation and when maki vs cursed spirit naoya it will probably be just as insane animation and even in the episode he didn't show anything that toji couldn't dodge or get out of the way all jogo did was just big fire that never even hit sukuna and wouldn't hit toji cause not only is toji faster than jogo but toji also has precog toji mid diffs with playful cloud and that's probably being nice
@@llawliet9793 Yeah but the point is that despite all those fireworks, Jogo didn't even touch him. It's not like Sukuna blocked or tanked his attacks, they just didn't land. Sukuna's attacks were all much smaller but way more precise. I think it'd be the same with Toji.
Jogo would win, his attack potency is just so insanely high I don’t really see how Toji could survive it. Shibuya Toji would certainly lose, Hidden Inventory Toji would have a higher chance but I still think he’d lose
Jogo cannot hit toji even once .Hell even the character like curse naoya way faster than jogo cannot toji.Sakuna heavily supressed clapped jogo with physical power alone.
You do know what attack potency means right? It doesn't matter the speed, Jogo was engulfing an entire terrain in lava, making it rain explosive bugs, raising the temperature to 99C, firing beams, MF was like a Touhou character. And he was STILL holding back, cause he wouldn't have been able to win a Domain Expansion war against Sukuna.@@om9959
@@om9959 Sukuna wasn’t suppressed in his 15F form, but he was playing around to see what Jogo could do. This isn’t an Anti-Feat as Toji would get washed by 15F Sukuna the same way. (Also he used cleave multiple times on Jogo, but non-fatally, like cutting his arms.) Curse Naoya is faster than Jogo, but is also faster than Toji, and the precog wouldn’t work too well considering Jogo doesn’t just go in straight lines, he’s def hitting him.
Then their is no fight and I feel like domain's don't take much stamina cause Dagon be chilling in his domain bruh really was a drink and chilling jogo and others
Toji can only be 6-8 SF let's be serious... JOGO fight with sukuna just show how destructive powerful he is...he was literary burning shibuya no one except Gojo would survive by cutting flames and building like sukuna, toji can't cut a building please... And Megumi who's taking never fought Jogo lol he would probably get one shot with Neg diff facing jogo.
Destructive, that is it. Jogo has the curse energy but not the manipulation, output, or refinement to hang with a Sukuna at 8 fingers. His power is realistically 5-6 fingers. Give Toji had a really long sword, he easily has the strength to cut a building in half.
@@ratio8099 Concentrated power or destructive power, it does not mean Jogo is stronger. Toji has speed capable of reaching Jogo and Jogo has garbage durability( The red used by Gojo is confirmed to be weak by scaling) One hit from playful cloud would end Jogo's life.
bro just ruled out jogos whole argument (being getos statement) by saying his headcanon about the souls, not even mentioning gojos statement on jogo being stronger than a 3 finger sukuna (chapter 13 or 14?) while megumi says the essientially the same thing for toji but uses the word "rival" (megumi vs toji forgot the chapter) not stronger or faster. jogo slams and toji is just hella overrated.
Lmao bro JJK RU-vidrs are some of the worst power scales I’ve ever seen. This entire video is just head cannon, and weird scaling for Toji based on huge leaps in logic
After watching the video and watching the episode... lmao this video must be jokes because toji stands no chance against jogo 😭 its not even close at all
@@gameuniverse5973 he also calls Gojo painfully ordinary before he switches up and says he'll never forget him everything and was constantly talking about how pathetic Jogo was before the whole " Your strong " speech with very little changing in the fight, Sukuna says and does comes down to hiw he's feeling at the moment. Also what does being boring have to do with being strong the two aren't mutually exclusive.....
Honestly,whether either one wins or loses,you already know the amount of style and flair in that fight is gonna look so gorgeous. I personally think Toji wins because Physical Prowess is guaranteed to play in this fight
I don’t think it’s an easy fight at all for Jogo but if he is allowed to expand his DE, isn’t Toji’s only win-con getting inside his domain? Jogo’s domain is the literal inside of a volcano which burns everything with or without CE. Toji/Maki types can only negate guaranteed hits that target CE once within the domain because they have no CE. (like Gojo’s info dump or Dagon’s Unlimited Swarm) Toji can “choose” to get in the domain but if it’s casts and he wants to kill Jogo, he has to enter and will be affected by general extreme heat, lack of oxygen, poisonous gasses, etc. Not meteors thrown or lava spouts fired.
He says most sorcerers would burn immediately after entering the domain; maki survived against a fire blast from him to the face (before she perfected her body), but after the awakening, uraume showed up during the maki & yuuji vs sukuna fight and they directly blasted her with their maximum output technique Frost Calm (Yuki had to stop uraume the last time they showed up), yet maki survived that perfectly well (of course it took her a while to get out of it, but she was also caught off guard even worse than when she met jogo, so the fact that she was perfectly fine in chapter 220 is saying a lot about her current level of durability) Also, toji was unable to breathe in dagons domain as well when he was standing still and was dragged underwater, but that doesn't change the fact that he immediately tanked hundreds of attacks and then fucking skewered him like he was getting ready to grill calamari (LOL), and he was basically on autopilot during this. The exact same thing would happen if maki was in jogo's domain. Even if maki was sweating from the heat, she'd definitely be fine (I'm not sure about her odds before she lost all of her cursed energy though, but when she's at toji's level yeah she'd probs be okay for at least 5 seconds which is basically 4 seconds more than what she needs to break out of it) her senses are so good that she'd be able to sense any of the dangers ahead of time and then could figure out the best course of action. Maybe the lava would be rough if she literally soaked in it, but she ain't gonna fucking stand still while he uses his technique? 😭 she could literally just run up to him and slice him 100 times before he does a maximum output technique, and we don't even know if jogos maximum output would end the fight (unless it's literally a direct hit there's a good chance she could survive it, and she's considered an inanimate object within domains so if she didn't literally sit and chill while spaced out like toji in dagon's domain she'd probably dodge it) There are a lot of variables within a fight, but she'd probably already be on guard with him if he somehow came back to life out of nowhere to fight her, so I highly doubt she'd be dumb enough to lose against him. She could also just chill and wait for him to run out of cursed energy if she really wants to make sure she's safe. (That's such a petty way to win but jogo deserves it tbh if he was to fight against her again. Yass maki make him suffer) Now toji in shibuya... That's another thing entirely bc my man was acting like a mental patient after resurrecting from the dead within another sorcerer's body. Think about that as well; toji's damn body won over the soul of that sorcerer. WHATTT?!???? He's not even actually there, it's just his physical state of being alone was able to overpower a person's soul. Him and maki are the definition of built different. (Not me writing an entire essay's worth of content within this comment... It's not that deep luv why are you talking so much)
I have no idea how Toji would even deal with Jogo's cursed technique given he is a human with no cursed energy and would just instantly melt if hit with any of his fire attacks Toji is the batman of JJK, he will win if he plans to fight but will completely lose otherwise
Pre awakened Maki survived Jogo's flames. Grade 1 sorcererers are stated to be able to withstand the heat of Jogo's domain. Toji durability feats scales above the likes of special grades like Yuta, jackpot hakari and Ryu (not a special grade but more durable than Yuta)
@@EmmanuelGbiaye True although Jogo wasn't trying at all when he lit Maki up Toji also seemingly has no way to deal with Domain Expansions so he would get insta killed if hit by one but hitting him would be a hard part 😂 Toji is easily like top 5 in terms of speed in the series but Jogo's speed isn't nothing either, he is incredibly fast in his own regard
@@nothingtoseehere9648 he was literally trying to get revenge for them killing his comrade. He was trying to kill them and they all survived. Naobito died because he got help too late and he's and old man + the attack he took seemed more severe.
@@nothingtoseehere9648 Toji has a way of dealing with domain expansion. 1. Closed barrier domains exclude Toji. Basically Toji can't be pulled into a domain and his perfectly able to destroy it from the outside if he wishes and then kill then kill the caster while their Cursed techniques are on cool down. 2. Even if Toji decided (because it can't be forcefully trapped in it) to enter into a domain the sure hit cannot recognise him. Jogo would only have a physical buff and stronger techniques but his attacks would still be dodgeable
@@EmmanuelGbiaye I get that but he took out 3 people in less than 10 seconds come on it was lightweight 😂 That can't be true because Dagon was able to trap Maki in his domain and use his domains sure hit on her and Maki has no cursed energy just like Toji
Nahh Jogo sees Gojo and starts fearing for his arms I can’t get over how he had to resort to cutting his own arm off bc it kept getting caught if anything jogo is the divided one 😂😂😂
@@toadmaster6883 he did both, if you rewatch the fight there’s one moment he was about to get engulfed and he just cut it away and the rest he simply just moves out of the way cuz he’s fast enough
One thing to note is that dragon wouldve gotten away from toji as he could fly and toji couldn't and if it wasnt for nobito dagon wouldnt have died Jogo can obviously fly from the sukuna fight so jogo can just chill in the air and rain down meteors on toji Someone can correct me but in scaling when it's a character who can fly Vs a character who can't and doesn't have ranged attacks it's pretty much GG
Toji is strong but Jogo is superior due to his fire-based abilities and recovery power. Unless Toji has a counter against that, I don't see him winning
seeing the bunnies doin some fancy foot work trying to kick toji and the freakin one arm block without even looking! Insane. Anime is doing jjk justice rn. hopefulyl it last
You can’t even use the argument Tojo was scared of jogo. He didn’t know who megumi was until after they left. Immediately after finding out he killed himself. So why would he try to escape with his son if he didn’t know it was his son at the time?
Wait, people are actually thinking Toji would win? I thought it was obvious that Jougo is above Toji? Bro was destroying the fucking city with his massive powerful attacks during his fight with Sukuna and traded blows with him, was aknowledged by the guy, he can regenerate even if he takes damage, etc. etc. Melee guy vs natural disaster. Take your pick. Why do you think mangaka had to separate them? Of course don't forget that he casually removed Nanami, Maki and oldman. Such things don't just happen. Even if they were injured it's still massive feat. Toji isn't faster than him. Toji beat early Gojo because Gojo was weaker back then, tired, he had extensive preparaton, all the tools and was able to get a jump on him. He is like Batman who would beat pretty much anyone with enough preparation, but we are not talking about that scenario.
Megumi compared toji to 3f heartless non trying sukuna in speed Kenjaku literally stated jogo is 9f (even if he is being generous, atleast puts him at 5f of strength) jogo high diffs (could be lower)
yeahhh he didnt blow up the city in the manga, thats just something extra the anime did to make it more interesting, he blew up a couple buildings and was defeated very quickly by sukuna, there was no trading of blows, he would try something and simply get blitzed by sukuna, thats literally how the fight goes down, and toji is definitely faster than jogo based on the fact that dagon thinks naobito "maybe" faster than jogo, however we know toji is over naobito the question is how much does toji scale over naobito, we've already been told the only reason the clan lived on was because Toji allowed it, which means naobito + an entire clan would have lost to Toji
The winner is always the one the author decides. And the authors and editors love toji. I mean just look at how they had put him as a cliffhanger for 5 or so episodes. I'm sure gege would make a way for Toji to win against Jogo, even though jogo might be objectively stronger.
This is actually a 0 brain take I only see from 15 year old girls and Indians. If Jogo changes then temperature of the room to boil any blood that enters, that’s a 0% win probability for Toji.
Day 2 of asking for "What if the Jujutsu high main trio and/or "heavy hitters" participated in the Chunin exams" c'mon six you know it'd be a sick video (or two) you could easily do with Broken Ronin or No Operator.
Yeah toji and maki blitzting curse naoya who is way faster naobito >>>jogo in speed.Maki tanking neo lighting of sakuna before he got nerfed without a scrach.Kicking Sakuna face and throwing hand with while holding back.Same sakuna siad his physical power remains the same..jogo are worse any fanbase in jjk except hakari.
@om9959 Trying to upscale off that lightning feat just bumps up the verse's speed, including the top tiers that should be stronger than Maki right now. In the most recent episode, Toji also reacts to Nue's lightning, so that makes their speed on brand. Even if Naobito with a TECHNIQUE THAT BOOSTS HIS SPEED is faster than Naobito and Cursed Spirit Naoya is supposed to be faster, that'd just be reaction feats for Maki, not movement speed. Megumi Sukuna was nerfed by Megumi to only 10% of his strength, which heavily decreases the fingers' worth of power Maki would even scale to in the first place. If Toji, who has fewer feats than currebt Maki in comparison, fought Jogo, he'd have to deal with the constant barrage of aoe from his attacks and spontaneous combustion on top of that. PLUS, narratively speaking, Sukuna outright says that in comparison to sorecers from the Heian Era, he was one of the better people that he's fought. Jogo's top ten in the verse, and people underrate him to be deadbeat dad level.
Bro when Kenjaku told Jogo he was about 8 or 9 fingers he clearly was gassing him to take on gojo thats why he shouted that out with confidence after kenjaku said that bs.. he not even close to that many fingers
I'm pretty sure kenjacku was just reading jogo cursed energy it doesn't mean shit about his speed which is relative to one finger sukuna. His DC would be reflective to 8 finger sukuna although which is related to his cursed energy so kenjacku wasn't all wrong
